The global flood

[That Dude]

Holy heck Batman!
Is everyone on this forum educated by wiki?
It's like the Bob Ross school of intellects. Spend 30 minutes reading wiki and suddenly they think they have a degree.
I posted a link to Nat Geo with video footage explaining scientifically how the great flood could have been a reality and some moron told me, "just because you leave a link doesn't mean anything". Couldn't take 2 minutes to watch a video or read the article posted below it. Guess they'd rather spend a few hours searching wiki. Because they went right to the wiki link that partially quoted the Nat Geo article I left and quoted that instead.

Bruce Masse is a scientist, who is published and has passed peer review.
Who has a theory, a scientific theory, that explains how an impact crater caused the great flood. He used 172 myths that coincide, to locate a crater off the coast of Madagascar. Called the burkle crater.
He and his team have mapped out crater impacts all over the world along the sea floor.
There are impacts anywhere you go in the world. This isn't a debate, its fact. Another fact that should be noted is that the sea floor is constantly shifting, so its always changing and never the same. Which means all the impacts Bruce Masse and his team have discovered have happened within the last 10,000 years. A heck of a lot sooner then previously believed.

There is an individual in this thread with whom I debated these facts with before and when I asked that individual for a source, they left a link to some unofficial site that seemed to be posting someone's homework.
All I'm doing is leaving the (facts).
If you want to debate the facts all I can do is refer you to the source, which I've left in this thread.
If you can't do the same and refute the research Bruce Masse has done, then you should probably step off.
See ya.

 

[rusra02]

If someone takes the flood myth literally, I would point out that the flood method of purging the world of sinners is a cruel method. Imagine all those families with children desparately trying to stay above the waters. Imagine the terror felt by the children as the water rose higher and higher. Imagine the terror of the parents who wanted to protect their children but could do nothing. Imagine all of those tens of thousands of little children fighting to stay afloat and gasping for air.

If this global flood myth really happened and if God is merciful and kind(which I believe He is), He could have easily had all of the bad people die in their sleep or just disappear. Then God could have sent down his Angels to comfort and guide the children. Also, what are the odds that the only good people in the world out of tens of thousand or millions of poeple were Noah and his wife?

The Bible consistently records the global deluge as true historical fact. God was not being unmerciful or unkind to bring an end to that evil world. Genesis 6:5,11 reports on the violence and wickedness that marked the pre-flood world of Noah's generation (very similar to conditions on earth today).
The Bible also reports that Noah warned the people, but they refused to take any note of God's purpose, and continued their self-absorbed lifestyle. (Matthew 24:38,39; 2 Peter 2:5)
God holds parents responsible for the lives of their young children. The flood destroyed young and old alike. As Creator, God certainly has the right to decide who will live and who will die. God is not a sentamentalist, and it is more than a bit cheeky to second-guess how God does things.(Romans 9:20)
And unfortunately, throughout history, the wicked have almost always vastly outnumbered those God considers righteous. We don't know how many people were living in Noah's time, but of that generation only Noah and his family (8 people) were able to survive that world's end. (2 Peter 2:5)

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

All I'm doing is leaving the (facts).

Except for the fact that the hypothesis remains highly controversial. So, for example, ...

The Holocene Impact Working Group is a group of scientists from Australia, France, Ireland, Russia and the USA who hypothesize that meteorite impacts on Earth are more common than previously supposed.

The group posits one large impact (equivalent to a 10-megaton bomb) every 1,000 years. This estimate is based on evidence of five to ten large impact events in the last 10,000 years. Satellite observations suggest the presence of many recent impact craters and landforms such as chevrons which are thought to have been caused by megatsunamis. The chevrons often point in the direction of specific hypothesized impact craters, the supposition being that the chevrons were deposited by tsunamis originating from the impacts which formed those proposed craters. Study of chevrons however shows they are not consistent with the tsunami hypothesis.

A prime example the group cites is the impact event named Burckle crater which the group claims is located off the coasts of Australia and Madagascar. This seminal event is both recent and relatively large in the Earth's geologic time scale. As one of the cited events, the group indicates much more frequent impact events contrary to other research group frequency analysis results. If such a frequency proves out, then large impacts may show that efforts of the B612 Foundation become apparently critical considering known history of Tunguska event and others less clearly determined sizable enough to damage civilization.

The group states that their hypothesis is likely to be controversial: "I wouldn't expect 99.9 per cent of (the scientific community) to agree with us". Their work is controversial because it contradicts much of what is understood about impacts and tsunamis. [source]

It is, indeed, an interesting hypotheisi, but so was the Black Sea deluge promoted by Ryan and Pitman. Let's see where the science leads us ...

 

[Dubio]

The Bible consistently records the global deluge as true historical fact. God was not being unmerciful or unkind to bring an end to that evil world. Genesis 6:5,11 reports on the violence and wickedness that marked the pre-flood world of Noah's generation (very similar to conditions on earth today).
The Bible also reports that Noah warned the people, but they refused to take any note of God's purpose, and continued their self-absorbed lifestyle. (Matthew 24:38,39; 2 Peter 2:5)
God holds parents responsible for the lives of their young children. The flood destroyed young and old alike. As Creator, God certainly has the right to decide who will live and who will die. God is not a sentamentalist, and it is more than a bit cheeky to second-guess how God does things.(Romans 9:20)
And unfortunately, throughout history, the wicked have almost always vastly outnumbered those God considers righteous. We don't know how many people were living in Noah's time, but of that generation only Noah and his family (8 people) were able to survive that world's end. (2 Peter 2:5)

Well, it comes down to the fact that I don't take the bible literally. I was not second guessing God. I was second guessing the story writer. God is much greater than he imagined. God deserves better.

A question to ask is what lens did the writer look through. He was looking through a lens where people thought God or gods were behind every natural occurrence. People thought that the sun moved because a god was physically pushing it.

 

[Agnostic75]

The Bible consistently records the global deluge as true historical fact.

But the ways that fossils and sediments appear in strata show that a global flood did not occur.

 

[Dubio]

But the ways that fossils and sediments appear in strata show that a global flood did not occur.

Even if there was a global flood, it doesn't mean that the Noah's Ark(Babylonian myth) story actually happened.

 

[Desert Snake]

Even if there was a global flood, it doesn't mean that the Noah's Ark(Babylonian myth) story actually happened.

Of course not.

 

[fallingblood]

Not a literalist creationist.



Literalist creationism is synonymous with the idea of a young earth. Consider the following:

Creationism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



The article mentions "literalist creationists." That is the group of people who I am referring to. Virtually all of that group are young earth creationists, and believe that a global flood occurred.

Have you underestimated the number of Americans who believe that a global flood occurred? There are tens of millions of them.



The website that I just quoted is talking about about when the earth was created.

The website you quoted never asked when the earth was created. This is where the 40% came from: God created man pretty much in his present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so. It is only talking about man being created, not when the Earth was created.

The site you cited had nothing to do with YEC. And it definitely did not support your claim that 40% of Americans believe in YEC.

Also, you moved the goal posts. We were talking about Creationism, not literal creationism. Like I have said, creationism and evolution can work together, with no problem.

 

[fallingblood]

But the ways that fossils and sediments appear in strata show that a global flood did not occur.

Not really. First, a flood will not necessarily mix up all of the levels of strata. In fact, it won't, especially when the flood is like the one described in the Bible. It will definitely effect some layers of the strata, but that is different. So really, we could expect to see the same thing after a flood, as we see before the flood (or similar). Not to mention that we then would have additional fossils and sediments added onto that, which would follow the same basic idea that you described.

Really, we are only talking about a limited strata. Really, you're argument is weak at best, because it does not factor into what happened before or after the flood. It assumes that the flood would change everything, when it wouldn't.

If one wants to show that the flood did not occur, all one has to show is that there are no geological markings for a flood.

 

[outhouse]

Even if there was a global flood, it doesn't mean that the Noah's Ark(Babylonian myth) story actually happened.

The earliest babylonian myth is actually Sumerian and was never a global flood

It was a regional flood when the Euphrates overflowed in 2900 BCE which is a attested regional flood

 

[outhouse]

Of course not.

Wrong again, do the work. It was a real flood and a man actually did load his animals on a barge and difted out.

 

[outhouse]

Holy heck Batman!
Is everyone on this forum educated by wiki?
It's like the Bob Ross school of intellects. Spend 30 minutes reading wiki and suddenly they think they have a degree.
I posted a link to Nat Geo with video footage explaining scientifically how the great flood could have been a reality and some moron told me, "just because you leave a link doesn't mean anything". Couldn't take 2 minutes to watch a video or read the article posted below it. Guess they'd rather spend a few hours searching wiki. Because they went right to the wiki link that partially quoted the Nat Geo article I left and quoted that instead.

Bruce Masse is a scientist, who is published and has passed peer review.
Who has a theory, a scientific theory, that explains how an impact crater caused the great flood. He used 172 myths that coincide, to locate a crater off the coast of Madagascar. Called the burkle crater.
He and his team have mapped out crater impacts all over the world along the sea floor.
There are impacts anywhere you go in the world. This isn't a debate, its fact. Another fact that should be noted is that the sea floor is constantly shifting, so its always changing and never the same. Which means all the impacts Bruce Masse and his team have discovered have happened within the last 10,000 years. A heck of a lot sooner then previously believed.

There is an individual in this thread with whom I debated these facts with before and when I asked that individual for a source, they left a link to some unofficial site that seemed to be posting someone's homework.
All I'm doing is leaving the (facts).
If you want to debate the facts all I can do is refer you to the source, which I've left in this thread.
If you can't do the same and refute the research Bruce Masse has done, then you should probably step off.
See ya.

You posted a groups guess and got called on it and refused all other evidence


Not enough is actually known about the impact so your guessing at best


There is no mystery at all about the regional flood that took place that was the origin for the flood myth

 

[rusra02]

Well, it comes down to the fact that I don't take the bible literally. I was not second guessing God. I was second guessing the story writer. God is much greater than he imagined. God deserves better.

A question to ask is what lens did the writer look through. He was looking through a lens where people thought God or gods were behind every natural occurrence. People thought that the sun moved because a god was physically pushing it.

A better question to ask is what lens you are looking through. The Bible is consistent throughout in supporting the historicity of the Flood. Jesus Christ accepted the Flood as reliable history. (Luke 17:26,27) So did the writers of the Christian Greek scriptures. The Bible is specific as to time and place, giving the exact date the Flood began and ended, and includes geneologies leading back to Noah.

 

[rusra02]

Even if there was a global flood, it doesn't mean that the Noah's Ark(Babylonian myth) story actually happened.

The Bible's historical account bears little resemblance to the Babylonian myths. However, it is interesting that cultures around the world have memories of a deluge and include this in their mythologies.

 

[outhouse]

The Bible's historical account bears little resemblance to the Babylonian myths. However, it is interesting that cultures around the world have memories of a deluge and include this in their mythologies.

wrong

its very close, more close then any other myth in the world.


it is also the exact place noahs myth is told to originate from.


Problem for you is the Sumerian version is not a myth. The man is real and the flood is attested.


it is no mytsery and noahs myth uses the sumerian version word for word in some places


good luck refuting that

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

I think the best argument is that simply, there is no geological record of such a massive flood. That and there simply is not enough water for such a flood.

No historical record. Whenever Noah lived, there were Chinese living on the other side of the globe, and they didn't seem to notice being wiped from the face of the earth.

Unless Noah lived in some magical time and place outside of normal human history, I mean.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

There may be a lot of creationists and biblical literalists out there, but anyone dumb enough to actually believe that the biblical global flood story actually happened cannot be argued or reasoned with any way. I don't understand the exercise of presenting arguments and facts to people who are content being ignorant.

 

[fallingblood]

The earliest babylonian myth is actually Sumerian and was never a global flood

It was a regional flood when the Euphrates overflowed in 2900 BCE which is a attested regional flood

But the flood story from the Hebrews doesn't necessarily reference that one completely.

 

[fallingblood]

You posted a groups guess and got called on it and refused all other evidence


Not enough is actually known about the impact so your guessing at best


There is no mystery at all about the regional flood that took place that was the origin for the flood myth

That is untrue. There is mystery about that flood, as we don't have any historical works, from that time, about that flood. What we have is an epic, that talks about it. An epic may have tied in historical, political, theological, etc ideas into the story, but it is not a historical account. More so, that story changed as the Sumerian culture was conquered, and the next culture was conquered, and so on and so forth. There is mystery about that flood.

Also, it may have been a source for the Biblical myth, but it would be wrong to say that the Biblical myth originated out of that regional flood. One, they occurred at different times. There would have been many floods that the Hebrews did experience. The Hebrews would have drawn upon their own experiences.

Just because they borrowed, partially, from another culture, does not mean that other culture is the origin of such a story.

 

[fallingblood]

wrong

its very close, more close then any other myth in the world.


it is also the exact place noahs myth is told to originate from.


Problem for you is the Sumerian version is not a myth. The man is real and the flood is attested.


it is no mytsery and noahs myth uses the sumerian version word for word in some places


good luck refuting that

So the Sumerian version is a historical recollection of the actual events?