The God Story's Logic

[Taka]

Ok. Then tell me what science teaches in 30 words or less.

Like I said, scientists don't know what caused the big bang. Saying "I don't know" is the best thing to do when there isn't enough information to arrive at an answer. Certain scientists have come up with ideas on how it may have happened, but it is currently unknown.

 

[Thief]

Isn't spirituality the same way?

Yeah...thank God!

Suppose you already know all things.
And you have only the creation to talk to.

Your creation responds to your 'word', but does not really 'respond'.
So then you end up talking to yourself.
And because you already know all things.....
All you get is a soundless echo.

So here we are...'blissfully ignorant'....altogether busy about....
'what's this?'...'how did that happen?'....'what the hell?'

 

[sojourner]

Yeah...thank God!

Suppose you already know all things.
And you have only the creation to talk to.

Your creation responds to your 'word', but does not really 'respond'.
So then you end up talking to yourself.
And because you already know all things.....
All you get is a soundless echo.

So here we are...'blissfully ignorant'....altogether busy about....
'what's this?'...'how did that happen?'....'what the hell?'

We should be talking to God instead of about God.

 

[crocusj]

Hate to back all the way to post one....but....

A list of events, and then a call to make sense of it?
From the beginning to the present, in one posting.

How about...
You're here to learn all that you can.
Your body is designed for that effect and can't really do anything else.
Then back to God you go.

Now when you get there....
Will you have made sense of anything at all?
Or will you stand there, and profess to be totally confused?

So, for all that we do not understand, God is the answer? A God with a thousand interpretations? Alternatively, we can experience and learn as individuals and understand more as a species and continue to do so without discovering any sense of anything at all. What "sense" are you talking about?

 

[crocusj]

Some may think they're talking fact, but they're deluding themselves. We can't talk fact about what we don't understand.

I didn't say God is a metaphor. I said that our language about God is metaphoric.
We are created for relationship. Love is our purpose.

If we cannot talk fact about what we don't understand what is "We are created for relationship. Love is our purpose"? Clearly, as an animal, our first instinct is for survival and procreation. Can you show how our purpose is any more or less than that of a dog, or an ant?

 

[backwateru]

Here's the logic as I understand it:
God created everything
He created humans
He placed them in a garden
He placed a tree of knowledge there
He told the humans not to eat of the tree
He allowed the devil/satan to enter the garden
He allowed the humans to be tempted, knowing they would eat of the tree
He (seemingly) acts surprised that they ate of it (didn't see them I guess, but why?) then kicks them out, making their lives difficult and ending in death/hell
Years go by, god asks for sacrifices from people during those years
Eventually, a teenager gets pregnant with his son/self/son/self
He/his son/he/his son grows up
Little to no writings of this age of himself/son/self/son is allowed to be put into the story of himself/his son/himself/his son
Then, all of a sudden, people are writing stories about himself/his son/himself/his son starting around the age of 30
Four stories are accepted as legitimate, yet no one story is exactly the same - some have parts others don't, some can't agree on details
This god obviously can't edit the writing of his own story, much less do it himself - why?
Time passes and his son/self/son/self is sacrificed for the sins of the world
He "dies", then assends (though some reports of him appearing in other parts of the world, but those reports aren't allowed to be published in the official bible)
Over the course of time, people come and go in his name

Here we are today.

Where's the logic in this story? On the superfical level, it makes "sense", but when you dig slightly deeper, you have to start making assumptions and, at times, concessions, for it to make sense.
Why?
If a being can create everything that is, why are the concessions necessary?

There seems to be more logic in many Hollywood scripts.

Are there parts missing of the story?
Has the story been changed over time?
Or, in order to beleive, do you have to do away with logic?

I hold that all of what you mentioned above will be fully explained to me in the hereafter. Until then, I'll keep praying and trying to follow the teachings of Jesus.

 

[Thief]

So, for all that we do not understand, God is the answer? A God with a thousand interpretations? Alternatively, we can experience and learn as individuals and understand more as a species and continue to do so without discovering any sense of anything at all. What "sense" are you talking about?

Initially your five senses.

And yes a thousand interpretations.
No two people see any one thing in the same way.

So you are here to learn all that you can and then back to God you go.
What you have learned will make all the difference.

Make sense?

 

[McBell]

Isn't spirituality the same way?

For some people, yes.
For some people no.

 

[crocusj]

Initially your five senses.

And yes a thousand interpretations.
No two people see any one thing in the same way.

So you are here to learn all that you can and then back to God you go.
What you have learned will make all the difference.

Make sense?

Well, not really. I guess I just don't see the question. Learn nothing but build a steam engine seems ok to me.

 

[sojourner]

If we cannot talk fact about what we don't understand what is "We are created for relationship. Love is our purpose"? Clearly, as an animal, our first instinct is for survival and procreation. Can you show how our purpose is any more or less than that of a dog, or an ant?

Uh huh. And how do we procreate?...
Through relationships!

 

[Falvlun]

This is a very surface take on very deeply symbolic metaphors and allegories. It's words and syntax without meaning. That's what's missing.

Concessions are necessary because we are finite human beings trying to talk about infinite matters.

Unfortunately, it seems the average Christian has discarded the metaphor as too ambiguous and difficult, and accepted the myth as the "real deal". Most Christianity I have experienced, and to be honest, the Christianity that seems to have been cultivated from the Middle Ages on, has been more about believing the various stories as the thing itself, rather than as a tool to point at something we can never understand.

 

[sojourner]

Unfortunately, it seems the average Christian has discarded the metaphor as too ambiguous and difficult, and accepted the myth as the "real deal". Most Christianity I have experienced, and to be honest, the Christianity that seems to have been cultivated from the Middle Ages on, has been more about believing the various stories as the thing itself, rather than as a tool to point at something we can never understand.

And that's too bad, because it's like looking at the surface of the ocean, thinking that's all there is, and missing out on the whales, and reefs, and other stuff that live in the depths.

 

[connermt]

I hold that all of what you mentioned above will be fully explained to me in the hereafter. Until then, I'll keep praying and trying to follow the teachings of Jesus.

That's more than a fair statement.Fortunately, that type of thinking doesn't work for me and has allowed me to become the individual I am today
Best of luck to you though!:clap

 

[connermt]

Uh huh. And how do we procreate?...
Through relationships!

Not relationships, but through sexual reproduction. You can have one and not the other.

 

[connermt]

Hate to back all the way to post one....but....

A list of events, and then a call to make sense of it?
From the beginning to the present, in one posting.

How about...
You're here to learn all that you can.
Your body is designed for that effect and can't really do anything else.
Then back to God you go.

Now when you get there....
Will you have made sense of anything at all?
Or will you stand there, and profess to be totally confused?

I've learned all I need that allows me to accept the christain god doesn't exists. That still doesn't mean I can't question the logic of the story itself. Hopefully, everyone does. That's the only way to learn.

 

[Thief]

I've learned all I need that allows me to accept the christain god doesn't exists. That still doesn't mean I can't question the logic of the story itself. Hopefully, everyone does. That's the only way to learn.

I'm not much for dogmatic faith.
Question the tall tales?.....sure do!

 

[McBell]

Not relationships, but through sexual reproduction. You can have one and not the other.

Why..?

 

[crocusj]

Uh huh. And how do we procreate?...
Through relationships!

Clearly. But it is still a leap to say that we were created specifically for relationships and that love is our purpose. You offered this as a fact after saying we cannot talk facts about what we do not understand. Are you therefore saying that as long as you personally understand something it becomes a fact and that if I see something amiss with the Christian god then it is not a fact and I'm just reading it wrong? Certainly sounds that way and also sounds like having your cake and eating it.

 

[Thief]

Clearly. But it is still a leap to say that we were created specifically for relationships and that love is our purpose. You offered this as a fact after saying we cannot talk facts about what we do not understand. Are you therefore saying that as long as you personally understand something it becomes a fact and that if I see something amiss with the Christian god then it is not a fact and I'm just reading it wrong? Certainly sounds that way and also sounds like having your cake and eating it.

Speaking of spiritual things does so without 'proof'.
That's a fact.

So a discussion about God would proceed, even when somethings spoken don't seem correct.

But that's what a forum is all about.

Say as you please about God.
Stand before Him later and say it again.

What's so hard about that?

 

[sojourner]

Not relationships, but through sexual reproduction. You can have one and not the other.

Sexual reproduction is a relationship.