Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I cannot imagine anything worse, although if there is a hell in the afterlife that could be worse than life on earth.
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The good atheist
- Thread starter Spirit of Light
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
According to my beliefs, the problem is that we are all sinners, so it is hypocrisy to accuse others of being sinners.
27: O SON OF MAN! Breathe not the sins of others so long as thou art thyself a sinner. Shouldst thou transgress this command, accursed wouldst thou be, and to this I bear witness.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 10
Jimmy
King Phenomenon
im sorry you feel that life is garbage
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Why would it matter what Christians believe about hell?
Beliefs do not make anything true.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do not believe that all of this life is garbage, but some of this life is very difficult for some of us.
You might want to look at a thread I posted a couple of days ago in order to understand my position.
Nothing lasts forever in this life
Why would it matter what Christians believe about hell?
Beliefs do not make anything true.
Correct, so why believe i heaven?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
There is no why to it. A believer just believes in heaven according to their scriptures, but an atheist does not believe in any scriptures so obviously there would be no reason for an atheist to believe in heaven.
You made the statement " Beliefs do not make anything true. "
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That is correct. Beliefs do not make anything true
A believer believes in heaven according to their scriptures and those scriptures are either true or false. It is not the belief that makes them so.
In Christianity, atheists are damned, as there is said to be no path to salvation except through accepting Christ as divine. None have lived a perfect life or even an acceptable life. Unbelievers are described in the most hateful and demeaning of terms in the Christian Bible. You've already seem two such scriptures in this thread, and there are several more, which, collectively, depict unbelievers as lying, corrupt, vile, abominable, wicked, godless vessels and are the declared enemy of a good god in the service of darkness and evil, not one of whom does good, and all of which are fit to be burned alive forever as the moral equivalent of murderers and whoremongers:
[1] "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.' They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good" - Psalm 14:1
[2] "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." - Revelation 21:8
[3]"Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?"- 2 Corinthians 6:14
[4] "Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ." - 1 John 2:22
[5] "Whoever is not with me is against me" - Luke 11:23
[2] "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." - Revelation 21:8
[3]"Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?"- 2 Corinthians 6:14
[4] "Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ." - 1 John 2:22
[5] "Whoever is not with me is against me" - Luke 11:23
Now imagine all of that with some other group in place of atheists, say Jews or blacks. It would be called bigotry and hate speech in that case. It true that many Christians either reject that or suppress expressing it, but many have drunk liberally from that cup as the palpable atheophobia in these threads attests. Ask yourself why, to your credit, you had to overcome atheophobia yourself. Where did that contempt come from in the first place?
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
The NT has been around for 2000 years.
The Qur'an, for 1500 years.
It is not a particular group or tribe denouncing another.
People from all tribes/nations are Muslims and Christians.
Come on .. admit it .. you just love to "cry wolf"
Your post didn't address my post at all. Even if everything you wrote were correct, none of it contradicts my argument.
Can we assume that you have no rebuttal, just dissent? If I were mistaken, it would be possible for you to identify an error of fact or fallacy in reasoning that makes my conclusion unsound. If it is a sound argument (correct conclusion), it is impossible to successfully do that (rebut).
So which is it? Are you able to rebut this argument? I don't think that you can. I don't think anybody can.
Or perhaps you disagree with that assessment. Did you want to challenge whether those scriptures come from the Christian Bible? Did you want to challenge the way I collated it all into a summary judgment in a single sentence? Did you want to challenge the idea that similar statement about the two demographics I mentioned would be called hate speech? I think all of that is unassailable, and therefore correct, whether it embarrasses theists or not.
If you can't rebut it, perhaps you should think about why.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
I believe Baháʼís can be saved.Personally I believe atheists can be saved
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
It is a sin to ascribe partners to God, the Creator and Maintainer of the universe.
..hence it is a major sin to denounce or insult God.
True.
That reminds me of the game Monopoly.
There is a chance card that says "Go directly to jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect £200.
Just as in this life, we suffer from our shortcomings, this also applies to the life hereafter.
Many believers will not "go straight to heaven", as I understand it.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
My intention with this OP was not about insulting God. It is about unconditional love to all humans, also toward atheistsIt is a sin to ascribe partners to God, the Creator and Maintainer of the universe.
..hence it is a major sin to denounce or insult God.
True.
That reminds me of the game Monopoly.
There is a chance card that says "Go directly to jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect £200.
Just as in this life, we suffer from our shortcomings, this also applies to the life hereafter.
Many believers will not "go straight to heaven", as I understand it.
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samtonga43
Well-Known Member
I believe that hell would be infinitely worse than life on earth. I believe that we have never been beyond God's reach while we are alive (whether we believe in Him or not). He is never absent.
However, hell is where God is absent.
"The doors of hell are locked on the inside". C.S. Lewis
Bird123
Well-Known Member
It has never ever been about Beliefs. I would say the atheist you describe has learned many lessons others are yet to learn. On the road to a Higher Level this can not be ignored. This atheist is indeed closer to being able to create a Heavenly state for themselves and others.
God has always been about what is rather than what is believed.
Worry not. All God's children, in time, will Discover how to create a Heavenly state for themselves and others. This includes all atheists. Some children's journey will just take a bit longer through their own choices.
The hungry student tends to advance much quicker. When I speak of hungry student, I am not referring to religion at all. Religion is not the lesson. I haven't found any religion that actually Understands God at all.
In the end, each will Discover they already know God whether they know they know now or not. God has never ever been one to be feared in spite of all the beliefs mankind has generated. There is so much that is said about God that simply is not true.
Life is about Living, Learning, and Growing. It has never been about believing, following, and accepting. Listen to the advice of others but walk your own path. Life's Lessons are best learned that way.
That's what I see. It's very clear!!
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Exactly. It is not "hate speech" .. it is scripture.
It was written long ago.
It has nothing to do with modern secular laws that are designed to promote social cohesion, by outlawing individuals abusing each other.
I can't help it if you don't like what scripture teaches.
Huge numbers of people believe it is Divinely inspired.
You, of course are entitled to believe what you like, as long as you don't go around insulting people's beliefs.
Funny isn't it.
It's alright to "knock" God, but not modern secular values. Pffft !
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
I don't agree..
We can fear human beings, but not God?
It is more about having respect, and fearing the consequences of disobedience.
It is about responsibility .. to ourselves and others.
Faith is in 2 parts. Hope in God's infinite Mercy, and fear of His Wrath.
However, God is not a "superior person" who tells us what to do.
God is not comparable to any of His creatures.
We cannot fathom what God actually is .. we just know God exists.
A superior "something" that is the Creator and Maintainer of the universe and all it contains.
Without God, nothing would exist.
So God does not torture us as a person would torture another.
We wrong our own souls and cause our own distress.