The Gospel - Is it only that Jesus died or is it that we celebrate The Resurrection?

[URAVIP2ME]

.................. And as I mentioned, there remains a serious fraction of the world's population who are acculturated to other religions, and some of them have never even heard of Christianity, two thousand years after the event. What does 'an opportunity to choose life' mean to any of them? How astonishingly inefficient is the God who planned all that?

Please notice the proclaiming about the good news of God's Kingdom (thy kingdom come..... ) Jesus said would be proclaimed as a witness (Not a conversion) to earth's nations at Matthew 24:14
There are new people being born every day. God and Jesus can read ' hearts' so at Jesus' coming Glory Time, Jesus as King, will read hearts as to who are humble 'sheep' or haughty 'goats' - see Matthew 25:31-34,37,40

As for those already dead 'there will be' (future) a resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous (KJV just and unjust - Acts 24:15 )
Those Not called to Heaven can have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection to be one of the meek who will inherit the Earth

Modern technology has made rapid Bible translation possible so that now translators in remote translation offices translate right were people live so they can have access to Scripture in their own mother tongue or native languages

 

[URAVIP2ME]

......Obviously there are questions that we won’t have answers to until the time to come. I do know that God is just and will judge accordingly.......
I also know the mandate was for the disciples to go and preach in Judea, Samaria and to the uttermost parts of the earth. But don’t you find it interesting that those who have heard can still make a decision not to receive His love?

Yes, answers when the 'time comes' ( Millennial Time - 1st Cor. 15:24-26)
To me, God is already just and judged accordingly because He gave ALL judgement to His Son - John 5:22
So, since Jesus can read hearts ( No human judge can ) his judgement will be perfect and righteous
Thus, how a person reacts to hearing what is proclaimed will be a judgement factor of either adverse or favorable judgement

 

[blü 2]

Please notice the proclaiming about the good news of God's Kingdom (thy kingdom come..... ) Jesus said would be proclaimed as a witness (Not a conversion) to earth's nations at Matthew 24:14
There are new people being born every day. God and Jesus can read ' hearts' so at Jesus' coming Glory Time, Jesus as King, will read hearts as to who are humble 'sheep' or haughty 'goats' - see Matthew 25:31-34,37,40

As for those already dead 'there will be' (future) a resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous (KJV just and unjust - Acts 24:15 )
Those Not called to Heaven can have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection to be one of the meek who will inherit the Earth

Modern technology has made rapid Bible translation possible so that now translators in remote translation offices translate right were people live so they can have access to Scripture in their own mother tongue or native languages

But my question was, given an omnipotent God, why was it necessary for Jesus to die at all? What was the point?

Doesn't the idea of a father sacrificing his son to himself seem deeply revolting to you?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

..................Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.
The angels know of the coming power of The Body, sanctified in spirit through the flesh to the soul of Man in Heaven...................................
To me, the logic is we become immortal and in corruptible through the Baptism of the Body of Christ. And through Penance and Confirmation in Communion with Him we become glorified and re-sanctified gloriously transfiguring into His image returning from now where we became, The New Eden, the fulfilled Heaven and Earth, Heaven.
We welcome the Angels.
Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

Welcome which angels ____________ surely Not the fallen angels found at Luke 4:41. - Fallen angels - Mark 3:11; James 2:19
Adam was never offered immortality but everlasting life on Earth
( difference is we can only live forever if we love God by obeying God - 1st John 1:7 )
Adam (humans) were never offered to become immortal angels ( remember too: angels also are Not immortal - Hebrews 2:14 B
Earth was not a stepping stone to another place aka Heaven
Jesus only offers Heaven to those like the ones found at Luke 22:28-30 to rule or govern with Him - Rev. 20:6; 5:9-10
The majority of humanity can become part of the meek who will inherit (Not Heaven) but inherit the Earth - Matt. 5:5; Psalms 37:9-11; 22:26

 

[URAVIP2ME]

But my question was, given an omnipotent God, why was it necessary for Jesus to die at all? What was the point?
Doesn't the idea of a father sacrificing his son to himself seem deeply revolting to you?

Why? because we can't stop sinning no matter how hard we try
Because we are innocent of what father Adam brought upon us ( can't stop sinning ) is why we need someone to help us
We can't resurrect oneself nor resurrect anyone else, we need someone to resurrect us
Sure, 'death is the total price tag sin pays' - Romans 6:23 - but being dead does Not mean an automatic resurrection
Jesus dying a sinless death balanced the Scales of Justice for us
Not sinner father Adam, but righteous Jesus becomes our everlasting father (life giver) via resurrecting people
Jesus willingly sacrificed his life for US so that WE can gain everlasting life as originally offered to Adam before his downfall

 

[URAVIP2ME]

...........................“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him" in fulfilled faith and humanity.
We know to keep the "Door" open to all mankind.
Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

Yes, keep the good-news door open to all mankind - Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 - because we don't know who will end up as a 'sheep' or a 'goat'
- Matthew 25:31-34,37,40

 

[URAVIP2ME]

....................But you are entitled to your opinion, and some day, if not before you leave this life, then after, you will see better than you do now, as will everyone, including me.

'After one leaves this life ' one is simply in the grave - Acts 2:27; Psalm 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14
At death there is No life. The dead know nothing but sleep while in the grave
So, the dead do Not 'see' anything but are unconscious in sleep
The dead are Not aware of the passing of time, just as we are Not aware of time's passing while asleep
The only way dead ones will see better is during Resurrection Day (Jesus' Millennium-Long Day governing over Earth for 1000 years )
Or, if one is still alive on Earth at Jesus' coming Glory Time as found at Matthew 25:31-34,37,40

 

[blü 2]

Why? because we can't stop sinning no matter how hard we try

But we can try to be decent, respectful, inclusive and practical in our dealings with our fellow-humans. You don't need a god to tell you that ─ or at least, I don't.

Because we are innocent of what father Adam brought upon us ( can't stop sinning ) is why we need someone to help us

Read the Eden part of Genesis with great care. NOWHERE, not even once, does it mention sin. Instead, if you're curious to know why in that tale Adam and Eve were bounced out of the Garden, God states [his] ONLY reasons at Genesis 3:22-23, which I commend for your careful consideration.

We can't resurrect oneself nor resurrect anyone else, we need someone to resurrect us

Death is the irreversible cessation of the body's life functions. The only way anyone has ever been 'resurrected' is by not being dead in the first place. (And the various bible accounts of the resurrection are a tangle of contradictions ─ as you can check >here<. Historical Case for the Resurrection of Jesus

Jesus dying a sinless death balanced the Scales of Justice for us

I don't recall any account claiming Jesus was sinless. In fact his assault on the innocent traders in the temple is mentioned in all gospels, made worse by the fact that if he had any argument with what they were doing, that argument was with the Temple authorities, not the traders. Nor is there any record of him compensating the owner of the Gaderene swine.

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Death is the irreversible cessation of the body's life functions. The only way anyone has ever been 'resurrected' is by not being dead in the first place. (And the various bible accounts of the resurrection are a tangle of contradictions ─ as you can check >here<. Historical Case for the Resurrection of Jesus

I don't recall any account claiming Jesus was sinless. In fact his assault on the innocent traders in the temple is mentioned in all gospels, made worse by the fact that if he had any argument with what they were doing, that argument was with the Temple authorities, not the traders. Nor is there any record of him compensating the owner of the Gaderene swine.

Peace to all,

Thanks Blu2, I see your point, but to me in the logic this is what appers to me.

To me to logic in resurrection is in born again and saved by the Word, the Divine Immortal Infallible Law of Eternity, that became flesh as The Christ, the Eternal Priestly Authority. We are Created mortal and eternal, fall in the choice of freedom to become to death and as Baptized we become transformed immortal and incorruptible. To me the logic of the Baptism of John is to be able to die and resurrect through the Power of Baptism in the spirit through the flesh to the soul of the Being as sanctified, immortal and incorruptible through the Powers to the Complete Body.

Born Again:
To me the logic of Baptism is becoming sanctified immortal and incorruptible so resurrection through death is possible by becoming eternally alive in the spirit through the flesh to the Soul of the being, "Born Again" in the Body of The Christ. Christ is conceived by the Person of the Divine some say "Holy Spirit" through the Immaculate Conception of Mary in the Virgin Birth The Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God.

Saved:
And then we are "Saved" through Communion and Penance and confirmation of the re-sanctified Will of The Creator, God, The Father. We will be gloriusly transfigured into becoming the image of the Creator, God, The Father, glorified in the Body, in the New Divine Spirit through the flesh to the soul of Our own Christ. Resurrection of the Body is in the New Heaven and Earth, Heaven through the Power of the Divine Spirit Will of God.

Finally, even if one views Jesus’ actions in the temple as constituting a form of violence against the merchants and their property, it would be a non-injurious violence that has nothing in common with arming oneself to use lethal force against another.

The most plausible reason is the owner of the pigs becomes to resurrection, precious and priceless, we know no amount of pigs on earth can buy salvation, and only through The Christ, that Jesus chose the pigs to sacfifice because Jesus regarded people as precious and priceless, but not swine.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

 

[Kenny]

If you although being innocent stepped in to receive the death penalty for another person that would be a sacrifice
Innocent (sinless) Jesus stepped in to cover our sins which carries the death penalty - Gen. 2:17 - so we could gain everlasting life

beautiful.

 

[blü 2]

Peace to all,

Thanks Blu2, I see your point, but to me in the logic this is what appers to me.

To me to logic in resurrection is in born again and saved by the Word, the Divine Immortal Infallible Law of Eternity, that became flesh as The Christ, the Eternal Priestly Authority. We are Created mortal and eternal, fall in the choice of freedom to become to death and as Baptized we become transformed immortal and incorruptible. To me the logic of the Baptism of John is to be able to die and resurrect through the Power of Baptism in the spirit through the flesh to the soul of the Being as sanctified, immortal and incorruptible through the Powers to the Complete Body.

Born Again:
To me the logic of Baptism is becoming sanctified immortal and incorruptible so resurrection through death is possible by becoming eternally alive in the spirit through the flesh to the Soul of the being, "Born Again" in the Body of The Christ. Christ is conceived by the Person of the Divine some say "Holy Spirit" through the Immaculate Conception of Mary in the Virgin Birth The Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God.

Saved:
And then we are "Saved" through Communion and Penance and confirmation of the re-sanctified Will of The Creator, God, The Father. We will be gloriusly transfigured into becoming the image of the Creator, God, The Father, glorified in the Body, in the New Divine Spirit through the flesh to the soul of Our own Christ. Resurrection of the Body is in the New Heaven and Earth, Heaven through the Power of the Divine Spirit Will of God.

Thank you for your courteous post.

I'm, a materialist, hence I hold the view that death is the end (and that this is a good thing, both for human society and for the individual, since the eternal life proposed would be purposeless and as Woody Allen is said to have said, "Eternity is very long, especially towards the end.")

Finally, even if one views Jesus’ actions in the temple as constituting a form of violence against the merchants and their property, it would be a non-injurious violence that has nothing in common with arming oneself to use lethal force against another.

The version of John (2:14-15) is most specific about the violence: "And making a whip of cords, he drove them all, with the sheep and oxen, out of the temple; and he poured out the coins of the moneychangers and overturned their tables." You can draft your own charge sheet from that.

And my larger point is that if there was indeed any blame, it wasn't the moneychangers', but lay with the priests who administered the practices of the Temple, and licensed the moneychangers (&c). And of course, the priestly administration were also the only people who were capable of bringing about any change in the practices of the Temple ─ it was idle of Jesus to waste his energies on the moneychangers when he should have been making his point to the people who were ultimately in charge. The moneychangers themselves were essentially innocent, doing what good Jewish citizens were from of old permitted to do.

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

true Blu2, to me the logic in the Fulfillment in the New Covenant by Christ, follows:

Fiat is Latin Fiat Power is “Let it be to me according to your word.”

Abraham is promised by God, sworn by His Own Name eternal life of the the Body to Abraham's descendants and 2000 years later it is fulfilled by His Son, Jesus in all faith and morality.

To me, the logic of The Autonomy of the New Living Sacrifice, Jesus and the Divine, some say "Holy Spirit" Person He delivered is what allows all mankind to stand in the face of God as justified and self righteous in fulfilled faith and morality. Jesus fulfills faith and morality in the New Arc of the Covenant for all to share as The "Holy Spirit" as united and one being together with the Father and the Son glorified through the New Eve, the Bride of Christ, His Passion, Fulfilled Eternal Love in, through and to The New Living Sacrifice, becoming the image of The Creator, God, The Father as United as one in being with all mankind together with the Father and The Son, Glorified.

To me the fulfilled logic in faith and morality in, through and to the infallible will of the intelligence of The Creator in logic is, "What would Jesus do in all cases of fulfilled faith and morality?"

We know from the Tree of Knowledge how to Judge the difference between good and evil and through the Tree of Knowledge we are given the power to judge only ourselves and not others.

To me this is the logic of the fulfillment of the New Living Temple, and we Will keep the doors open to the Temple of the Body of the Church of Christ to all mankind becoming as all Will be well in fulfilled faith and morality of today, now and forever, Amen.

We all get, stay well through the Power of The Divine, some say "Holy Spirit" in the being of The Christ "Gave Up The Ghost", left behind for all to share in His Divinity by same Word that became Flesh at the Cross. He left the Paraclete until our Final Becoming.

What must we to for salvation? We always ask?

Born Again:
To me the logic of Baptism is becoming sanctified immortal and incorruptible so resurrection through death is possible by becoming eternally alive in the spirit through the flesh to the Soul of the being, "Born Again" in the Body of The Christ. Christ is conceived by the Person of the Divine some say "Holy Spirit" through the Immaculate Conception of Mary in the Virgin Birth The Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God.
Saved:
And then we are "Saved" through Communion and Penance and confirmation of the re-sanctified Will of The Creator, God, The Father. We will be gloriusly transfigured into becoming the image of the Creator, God, The Father, glorified in the Body, in the New Divine Spirit through the flesh to the soul of Our own Christ. Resurrection of the Body is in the New Heaven and Earth, Heaven through the Power of the Divine Spirit Will of God.

To me the Logic of Born again Saved is the Personal relationship with Christ so many people try to derrive without correctly applying the "Logic of the Kingdom of The Divine Will of The Creator"

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

 

[metis]

There is no scripture on “purgatory”. I find that to be a false doctrine.

According to the commission of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and another man is building upon it. Let each man take care how he builds upon it. For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble— each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire (Gr. dia puros).
[1 Corinthians 3:11-15 RSVCE]

Personally, I have no such belief, but then what do I know.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

......I'm, a materialist, hence I hold the view that death is the end (and that this is a good thing, both for human society and for the individual, since the eternal life proposed would be purposeless and as Woody Allen is said to have said, "Eternity is very long, especially towards the end.")
The version of John (2:14-15) is most specific about the violence: "And making a whip of cords, he drove them all, with the sheep and oxen, out of the temple; and he poured out the coins of the moneychangers and overturned their tables." You can draft your own charge sheet from that.
And my larger point is that if there was indeed any blame, it wasn't the moneychangers', but lay with the priests who administered the practices of the Temple, and licensed the moneychangers (&c). And of course, the priestly administration were also the only people who were capable of bringing about any change in the practices of the Temple ─ it was idle of Jesus to waste his energies on the moneychangers when he should have been making his point to the people who were ultimately in charge. The moneychangers themselves were essentially innocent, doing what good Jewish citizens were from of old permitted to do.

I find at 1st Corinthians 15:26 that 'death' is our 'enemy' and Not a friend
The temple was Not to be a marketplace of illegal business. Not a temple house of merchandise cave of robbers
Please notice John 2:16 because if the moneychangers would have been innocent they would Not have turned themselves -> greedy
- John 2:16; Matt. 21:13; Mark 11:17 and Luke 19:46

 

[URAVIP2ME]

............Read the Eden part of Genesis with great care. NOWHERE, not even once, does it mention sin. Instead, if you're curious to know why in that tale Adam and Eve were bounced out of the Garden, God states [his] ONLY reasons at Genesis 3:22-23, which I commend for your careful consideration.
............................................................................................................................................................................................................
I don't recall any account claiming Jesus was sinless.....................................................................................................................

I find the first mention of the word 'sin' is found at Genesis 4:6
When we break men's laws it is called a crime, when we break God's laws it is call a sin
( for example: we don't call someone caught speeding as committing a sin against the motor-vehicle code but a crime )

Did you ever read Hebrews 4:15; 7:26 _______
Remember earthly Jesus was Not a descendant for fallen father Adam, but Sinless God was his Father ( Life Giver )
Who was able to convict Jesus of sin - John 8:46 _______

 

[URAVIP2ME]

That certainly would be debatable as we certainly don’t know the context of all the God had planned…. how many planets are there? Was that suppose to be for inhabiting? We will never know

Never know, or will know because after the 1000 years we will know more ( 1st Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8)
After Millennial's end the 'sin issue' ( that started here on Earth ) will be finally be universally settled
Earth will always have the singled-out distinction that faithful intelligent creation chose to follow Jesus
Thus that will open up the way for intelligent life to exist elsewhere and never again a need to settle any 'sin issue' ever again

 

[URAVIP2ME]

........................................................................................................................................................................................
In our faith, we understand that since Jesus who bore our sin and then resurrected it becomes a declaration that we are forgiven and will also be resurrected.

' We' but just as 1st John 1:7 says " if " we ........... ( life style)
Thus, Jesus' ransom covers MANY - Matt. 20:28, but Not all because the wicked are 'destroyed forever' - Psalms 92:7; 104:35; 145:20
Resurrection is for both the righteous and unrighteous ( KJV just and unjust - Acts 24:15 ) Not for the unrepentant wicked - 2nd Peter 3:9
At Jesus' coming Glory Time (Matt. 25:31-34,37,40) the stubborn rebellious 'goats' come to a final end - Proverbs 2:21-22

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.........................................................................................................................................................................................
I liken it unto the relationship between a father and child. First and foremost it is the blood relationship that has the preeminence. In that relationship, it isn’t based on works but on blood.
That being said, now that there is a relationship that overshadows any and all works, there is a process to grow in knowledge and capacity to live out what one believes. If one messes up in the living of the belief, fellowship may be hindered but relationship (faith) is still maintained.

How interesting above because I recall a man saying, ' blood is thicker than water ' meaning he would stand behind his son whether the son was in the right or in the wrong because of blood relationship
I would say in that case that his fellowship was hindered with God and his faith was Not maintained
That would have been a good time to answer, " but Not thicker than the shed blood of Christ " !

 

[Kenny]

According to the commission of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and another man is building upon it. Let each man take care how he builds upon it. For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble— each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire (Gr. dia puros).
[1 Corinthians 3:11-15 RSVCE]

Personally, I have no such belief, but then what do I know.

That is the placing of works in a heap and judging our works… not judging our salvation. Yes, if we did no good works, there is no reward. You could say “just a white robe” or you receive a crown.

This much I know.

 

[Kenny]

Never know, or will know because after the 1000 years we will know more ( 1st Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8)
After Millennial's end the 'sin issue' ( that started here on Earth ) will be finally be universally settled
Earth will always have the singled-out distinction that faithful intelligent creation chose to follow Jesus
Thus that will open up the way for intelligent life to exist elsewhere and never again a need to settle any 'sin issue' ever again

I stand corrected.