The Gospel of John Claims that Jesus is God

[74x12]

I think that is not true, because John says also:

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

Jesus is like the ambassador of God, and he speaks in the name of God. That is why he can be called God on earth. However, it doesn’t mean that he is really the one and only true God. I think this could maybe help to understand why it could be said Jesus was God on earth:

Most assuredly I tell you, he who receives whomever I send, receives me; and he who receives me, receives him who sent me."
John 13:20

And about being one with God, also disciples of Jesus should be one with God:


I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them through your name which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are.
John 17:11

that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that you sent me.
John 17:21

There is no question that Jesus is in the flesh mortal. Otherwise He could not die. Yet, we see that He was the Word who was with God and was God in the beginning.

John is obviously expounding on Genesis chapter 1 by using the wordage "in the beginning" So John is claiming a Divine preexistent nature for the Son of God Jesus. He existed beforehand as the Logos who is with God in the beginning and is without beginning and is uncreated by anyone or anything.

That's the full of implication of saying "in the beginning was the Word ..."

 

[metis]

The greek word actually translates-congregation. in some cases.
Who said anything about scattering of individuals?

There's really no difference between "congregation" and "community" in this religious context.

The Church was an extended "congregation" under the leadership of Jesus and the apostles as Acts clearly shows, so when Jesus said he'd guide the "congregation" until the end of time, and since Paul wrote that the "congregation" was "one body", this had to refer to one Church, not just a batch of individuals scattered in the diaspora.

This completely defies what the JW's teach because for the Church to supposedly had slipped into "apostasy" defies what Jesus and the apostles and Paul taught.

 

[74x12]

All things were made by Him and without Him was not anything made that was made.

This verse (John 1:3) proves that Jesus is not created because everything created was made by Him. It couldn't be more obvious.

 

[kjw47]

There's really no difference between "congregation" and "community" in this religious context.

The Church was an extended "congregation" under the leadership of Jesus and the apostles as Acts clearly shows, so when Jesus said he'd guide the "congregation" until the end of time, and since Paul wrote that the "congregation" was "one body", this had to refer to one Church, not just a batch of individuals scattered in the diaspora.

This completely defies what the JW's teach because for the Church to supposedly had slipped into "apostasy" defies what Jesus and the apostles and Paul taught.

This world is very confused. The religion that came out of Rome( 2Thess 2:3) was not the religion Jesus began. Nor are any of its branches. He was not with them. They cannot even understand simple bible milk to this day--example-- In their pictures of Jesus for the last 1750 years or so- long hair. Fact-It was a dishonor for an Israelite male to have long hair. God made a special covenant with the Nararites( Samson) not to cut their hair but for the rest it would bring dishonor upon self and Gods name. The REAL Jesus would NEVER do that. These truths are in their own bible as well. In every translation on earth, Jesus points his followers to his Father. He warned all they wouldn't know him( John 15:20-21)--- His teachings back the JW teachers. How do you explain that?
2Thess 2:3 guarantees the son of peredition arises before truth comes back.

Applying the bible to reality= Mark 3:24-26 A house divided (34,000 trinity religions) will not stand.

A true mark = 1Corinthians 1:10-- Unity of thought( all matters of Gods truth) no division.

 

[metis]

The religion that came out of Rome( 2Thess 2:3) was not the religion Jesus began.

Show where you got this "information" from. What do you think happened with the Church of the apostles whereas Jesus promised that he would guide his Church until the end of time? Do you believe Jesus lied and that the power of the Holy Spirit failed?

Fact-It was a dishonor for an Israelite male to have long hair.

Apparently you're not familiar with the "nazirs", whereas many theologians believe that at least John the Baptist was. Women in public were to keep their hair covered, as it also states in the NT.

BTW, do your women at your kingdom hall keep their hair covered? Do they wear simple dress and not wear make-up? Do any of them teach any men? Do they greet each other with a "holy kiss" as also found in the NT?

 

[12jtartar]

In the book of John it's pretty obvious that the author is saying that Jesus is God.

John 1:1 makes that much easily clear. The Word was with God and the Word was God.

Jewish authorship:
The arguments from Arianism that this is speaking of "a" god are flawed for a few reasons. First of all the author is a Jew and that's not a Jewish idea. The author is obviously familiar with the Torah and it's commandments. Including "Hear oh Israel Jehovah our Elohim is one Jehovah." And "Thou shalt have no other elohim before me."

So the concept of two gods is against Judaism and it's silly to think that the Jewish author of John would be promoting the worship of two gods.

Influence from Greek philosophy?
Jewish authorship also casts serious doubt on such ideas as that the author is speaking of the so called "divine logos" of Greek philosophy. If the author is a Jew then what does he have to do with Greek philosophy? So if the author's views on the "Word" can be explained without resorting to Greek philosophy and instead by resorting to Jewish literal; especially the Torah and Tanakh. Then that is what should be done rather than assuming the author is influenced by foreign(gentile, pagan) philosophy.

So in understanding the "Word" that was made flesh we should look to 1st century Jewish ideas of the Word of God.

Context:
Secondly, if the author is really promoting the worship of two gods then we should be able to actually see that in the context. Meaning why would the author just stop with a statement like "The Word was with God and the Word was "a" God"? Especially since this can more easily be translated as "The Word was with God and the Word was God".

Therefore Arianists need more proof to show John actually meant to be speaking of two gods rather than one.

This proof they do not have. In fact when we compare John 10:30 with John 1:1 we see an obvious link. Meaning that the author here is showing us exactly how he views the relationship of the Word with God. Jesus is essentially the Word made flesh, but somehow He is "one" with the Father.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (John 1:14)
I and my Father are one. (John 10:30)

The truth:
The Jewish concept of "the truth" is that God(Jehovah) is the God of truth. Essentially the truth is God. So when Jesus claims to be " the way, the truth, and the life" It's a claim of divinity. And we further see this in the book of John when Jesus speaks of the "Spirit of truth" that "proceeds from the Father" who they(his disciples) know because He "dwells with them". See: John 14:17, John 15:26, John 16:13. So Jesus is basically claiming here that He is the Spirit of truth that proceeds from the Father (Obviously indwelling human flesh). According to Jesus (in the book of John) He (the Spirit of truth/Jesus) is with them but will be in them. So Jesus says "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." (John 14:18)

This is further collaborated in other Jewish writings such as 1st Esdras chapter 4:35-41. God is the "God of truth" and "Great is the Truth and mighty above all things".

The Father revealed in the flesh:
The author of John also makes it kind of obvious that Jesus is claiming to be God revealed in the flesh when Jesus says "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?" This was in reply to Philip asking Jesus to "show us the Father". (John 14:8-9)

So Jesus the Son of God is "The Word of God" and "the Truth". This is how the Son declares the God that no one can see. (John 1:18) He declares Him just by being. Because He is the "Truth" and the "Word made flesh". In other words, Jesus is all of God that can be seen.

Looking at other writings attributed to John we find that in 1 John 3:1-6 that John makes no distinction between the Father and the Son. But speaks of them as One.

1 John 3 King James Version (KJV)
3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

74X12,
Never would John say or even hint that the ONE TRUE GOD, mentioned by Jesus in a prayer, was THE God, but Jesus was A god, John 17:3, Jesus was even called a Mighty god, but not The Almighty God, Isaiah 9:6. Mighty in Hebrew was El Gabbohr, while Almighty was El Shaddai. There is a universe of difference between a mighty person and an Almighty Person.
Jesus could say that if you saw him you have seen God, was because Jesus was the spitten image of his Father, Colossians 1:15, Hebrews 1:3.
Jesus also said that he and the Father are ONE. This meant one in effort, just as the Bible says that we, Christians are ONE with God and one with Jesus, John 17:11,21-23.
Coins and some paper money in The USA says E Pluribus Unum on them, which means, out of many, ONE. Are we really one, or is the meaning that we have one goal, or we are working toward One things? This is the same as Jesus and God Being one, they work as one!!! The Bible actually says that God is ONE, Deuteronomy 6:4. Agape!!!

 

[74x12]

This meant one in effort, just as the Bible says that we, Christians are ONE with God and one with Jesus, John 17:11,21-23.

No, it means more than one in effort. Jesus is God manifest. And the beginning of God 's temple. So the flesh of Jesus is obviously created (Hebrews 10:5) and is the temple of God. We, if we are born again (John 3:3-5) are made members of Jesus' body. We also become living stones for the habitation of the Spirit of God. So we are indeed One with God by the grace of God not by merit.

This is the same as Jesus and God Being one, they work as one!!! The Bible actually says that God is ONE, Deuteronomy 6:4. Agape!!!

Yes He is one. We agree on that. I'm not trinitarian btw.

Jesus could say that if you saw him you have seen God, was because Jesus was the spitten image of his Father, Colossians 1:15, Hebrews 1:3.

He's more than just the image of God. He had all the fullness of the Difine nature indwelling Him bodily. (Colossians 2:8-9) Jesus the Son is God the Father manifest.

74X12,
Never would John say or even hint that the ONE TRUE GOD, mentioned by Jesus in a prayer, was THE God, but Jesus was A god, John 17:3, Jesus was even called a Mighty god, but not The Almighty God, Isaiah 9:6. Mighty in Hebrew was El Gabbohr, while Almighty was El Shaddai. There is a universe of difference between a mighty person and an Almighty Person.

Just rhetoric. You know that just because someone e is called mighty, that does not disqualify them from also being Almighty. Which is what the book of Revelation says about Jesus, except Jehovah's witnesses use other manuscripts that change the wording.

besides which, Jesus is also called everlasting Father.

 

[kjw47]

Show where you got this "information" from. What do you think happened with the Church of the apostles whereas Jesus promised that he would guide his Church until the end of time? Do you believe Jesus lied and that the power of the Holy Spirit failed?

Apparently you're not familiar with the "nazirs", whereas many theologians believe that at least John the Baptist was. Women in public were to keep their hair covered, as it also states in the NT.

BTW, do your women at your kingdom hall keep their hair covered? Do they wear simple dress and not wear make-up? Do any of them teach any men? Do they greet each other with a "holy kiss" as also found in the NT?

After Jeesus and apostles were killed off, they started on the followers. The religion went underground at best at that point. Any who have read the bible knows the religion that came out of Rome --DO NOT KNOW GOD OR HIS SON. Their own bible condemns them. Men ran from that religion once allowed to read the bible themselves. Those that left didn't fix much of the errors because the translating was filled with error to fit false council teachings and they had 0 clue.

 

[metis]

After Jeesus and apostles were killed off, they started on the followers. The religion went underground at best at that point. Any who have read the bible knows the religion that came out of Rome --DO NOT KNOW GOD OR HIS SON. Their own bible condemns them. Men ran from that religion once allowed to read the bible themselves. Those that left didn't fix much of the errors because the translating was filled with error to fit false council teachings and they had 0 clue.

I can't help but notice that you again avoided my questions, and it's obvious why you keep doing as such.

The above is just nonsense that you've been brainwashed to believe as that defies both what the scriptures actually do say and also defies even the most basic common sense. As long as you continue to blindly accept what the JW leaders teach you, thus refusing to actually investigate it on your own and using your own brain, you will remain in the dark on this and quite a few other things.

BTW, it is the Catholic Church that selected the canon of the Bible you also use relies also on input from other denominations, Jewish experts, and also on archaeology. IOW, it is not just a "Rome" thingy that your dishonest leaders have told you to blindly accept and you have blindly accepted without obviously doing an ounce of homework to check it out yourself.

 

[Muffled]

Yes Jesus is his Fathers image(Collosians 1:15) It was his Father who did the things through Jesus!Acts 2:22) That is how God was with us. And one could see the Father in Jesus( John 5:30) 100% the Fathers will. As do true followers( Matthew 7:21-23)

I believe image is a partial description. The benefit of being in a body is that He can speak vocally which is lot easier to hear than the voice in the spirit. Another benefit is that a substantive God engenders faith while an invisible God seems elusive.

 

[Muffled]

Personally, I think John 1 in regarding to the Word or Logos to be nothing more than allegory...therefore shouldn’t be taken literally.

I believe it is essential. God is intelligent and therefore able to bring things into order. So the world works logically instead of randomly because there is an intelligent creator.

 

[kjw47]

I can't help but notice that you again avoided my questions, and it's obvious why you keep doing as such.

The above is just nonsense that you've been brainwashed to believe as that defies both what the scriptures actually do say and also defies even the most basic common sense. As long as you continue to blindly accept what the JW leaders teach you, thus refusing to actually investigate it on your own and using your own brain, you will remain in the dark on this and quite a few other things.

BTW, it is the Catholic Church that selected the canon of the Bible you also use relies also on input from other denominations, Jewish experts, and also on archaeology. IOW, it is not just a "Rome" thingy that your dishonest leaders have told you to blindly accept and you have blindly accepted without obviously doing an ounce of homework to check it out yourself.

Facts say you are the one who is in error. My post was fact.

 

[kjw47]

I believe image is a partial description. The benefit of being in a body is that He can speak vocally which is lot easier to hear than the voice in the spirit. Another benefit is that a substantive God engenders faith while an invisible God seems elusive.

How many times have you seen your God?

 

[metis]

Facts say you are the one who is in error. My post was fact.

Well, here's a source that's non-affiliated to any religious body, so maybe check it out: Christian biblical canons - Wikipedia

 

[sooda]

After Jeesus and apostles were killed off, they started on the followers. The religion went underground at best at that point. Any who have read the bible knows the religion that came out of Rome --DO NOT KNOW GOD OR HIS SON. Their own bible condemns them. Men ran from that religion once allowed to read the bible themselves. Those that left didn't fix much of the errors because the translating was filled with error to fit false council teachings and they had 0 clue.

Are you trashing the Catholic church?

 

[metis]

Are you trashing the Catholic church?

That's a favorite pastime with the JW's.

 

[sooda]

That's a favorite pastime with the JW's.

Some people are so pathetic and transparent. I get really bored with inferiority complexes.

 

[Muffled]

How many times have you seen your God?

I believe once I saw God in Jesus.

 

[kjw47]

I believe once I saw God in Jesus.

Yes because Jesus is Gods image( Coll 1:15) He lives 24/7 to do his Fathers will-John 5:30) As do the true followers Matthew 7:21

 

[The Anointed]

Some people are so pathetic and transparent. I get really bored with inferiority complexes.

Aren't they though. If, as you say, you get really bored with inferiority complexes, why not try to rise above them.