The Gospel of John Claims that Jesus is God

[kjw47]

According to John, anyone who would not confess that Jesus Christ had come in the same flesh as his brethren, was antichrist.

Now since the children have flesh and blood, He too shared in their humanity, so that by His death He might destroy him who holds the power of death, that is, the devil, Heb 2:14

Therefore, he had to be like his brothers and sisters in every way, so that he could become a merciful and faithful high priest in matters pertaining to God, to make atonement for the sins of the people. Heb 2:17

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who was tempted in every way that we are, yet was without sin. Heb 4:15

He is able to deal gently with those who are ignorant and misguided, since he himself is beset by weakness. Heb 5:2

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: …Php 2:7,8

Not all flesh is the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another, and fish another. 1 Cor 15:39

By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ having come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming, and is already in the world at this time. 1 John 4:2,3

Both the RCC and JW's are antichrist sects.

You must not know what Jesus actually teaches to make a statement like yours. I have studied Jesus carefully from both sides-- 100% fact of life-The teachings of Jesus back the JW teachers-0 doubt.
Like this important one you must not know. Every true follower knows it.
Matthew 6:33--Therefore, keep on seeking-FIRST- the kingdom, and his ( YHVH(Jehovah) righteousness and all these things will be added to you.( sustenance, covering, spirituality)
Hallowed be thy name= YHVH(Jehovah)
Jesus warned most wouldn't know him-John 15:20-21
Jesus calls him( the one who sent him= Father( John 5:30) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD. John 17:1-6,26--verse 6= YHVH(Jehovah) 26 = YHVH(Jehovah) = 0 doubt--The one Jesus teaches is his God as well-John 20:17, Rev 3:12---The wise believe Jesus.

 

[kjw47]

Well, since I taught theology for more than three decades, ...

When are you going to believe esus and not judge others?

Then you know the following facts--When the protestants translated--ONLY Catholicism translating remained-possibly Hebrew translating. So in reality--every trinity translation was done by catholicisms translating--Then there is JW translating--the only choices in reality. Men ran from Catholicism once being able to read the bible for themselves, catholicisms own bible exposes them. A religion ruled by false council teachings. Cleverly translated in by small errors. No protestant religion ever fixed many errors.

 

[metis]

When the protestants translated--ONLY Catholicism translating remained-possibly Hebrew translating. So in reality--every trinity translation was done by catholicisms translating--

The Bibles used by Protestants are VERY similar to that used within Catholicism My favorite is the Revised Standard Version, which stays as close as conveniently possible to the earliest versions, including the DSS, and it is the number one most used by theologians in various denominations because of its accuracy.

A religion ruled by false council teachings.

How do you supposedly know they're "false"? Maybe give a couple of examples, plus providing evidence to show how you supposedly know they're "false".

BTW, how many false predictions did your JW masters make when they predicted the "end of times" that didn't occur, then making excuses why they failed? How many times have we seen posts by JW's here that "bear false witness", such as falsely claiming that Catholics worship the sun and statues? How many times have we seen JW's make the claim that Jesus was crucified on a stake, whereas both Roman and Jewish historians have long concluded that the stake was used for impaling, not crucifixion, plus there's no evidence that the Romans used the stake in Israel? How many times have we seen JW's coming here and condemning other denominations en masse, but then chafe if anyone even questions what JW's believe?

 

[Oeste]

Paul teaches the same thing-Collosians 1:15--The FIRSTBORN of all creation------- Creation happened long before Jesus came to the earth.

Is there some religion that claims creation occurred after Jesus came to earth???

This is a good example of what can happen when you read about the Trinity from WT sources.

I wish you would actually read what I wrote as the above doesn't negate what I posted.

If we could get him to read what he writes it would at least be a start.

Speaking of which, the Catholic Church strongly teaches and acts out of the Sermon On the Mount that demands we help others, and not just preach. In our area there are many Catholic hospitals, which are required by the Church to take care of all patients in an emergency no matter how poor they may be. We have many Catholic schools that also make it a point to take in the poor. The Catholic Church I attend with my wife takes in the homeless at least one week of the year, which includes feeding and clothing them. We have a large food pantry to help needy families. Not to far away is a Catholic soup kitchen that feeds thousands every week, while the monks in charge take vows of poverty. Etc.

I have disagreements with some practices of the Catholic church but this certainly isn't one of them. I consider these type of activities to be in spirit of Christ, not the anti-Christ, that should be recognized as well as encouraged regardless of one's particular faith or doctrine. Well done!

IOW, we do what the Sermon On the Mount says we are to do, but in conversation with another JW, we know that this is not emphasized with the JW's. With them it's just "talk the talk", not "walk the walk" of what the gospel teaches.

IOW, being a follower of Jesus is much more than just talking and trying to convert people-- it's a lifestyle based on agape and living within it.

Agreed. When it comes to JW's there's a lot of Romans 10:2 involved. Unlike some I can't say they're anti-Christ but I feel there's a lot of anti-Christian spirit involved. Of course each member will be held accountable for every idle word spoken (Matthew 12:36-37) but a lot more will fall on their leadership:

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves." (Mat: 23:15)
​

 

[LightofTruth]

According to John, anyone who would not confess that Jesus Christ had come in the same flesh as his brethren, was antichrist.

Now since the children have flesh and blood, He too shared in their humanity, so that by His death He might destroy him who holds the power of death, that is, the devil, Heb 2:14

Therefore, he had to be like his brothers and sisters in every way, so that he could become a merciful and faithful high priest in matters pertaining to God, to make atonement for the sins of the people. Heb 2:17

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who was tempted in every way that we are, yet was without sin. Heb 4:15

He is able to deal gently with those who are ignorant and misguided, since he himself is beset by weakness. Heb 5:2

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: …Php 2:7,8

Not all flesh is the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another, and fish another. 1 Cor 15:39

By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ having come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming, and is already in the world at this time. 1 John 4:2,3

Both the RCC and JW's are antichrist sects.

You must not know what Jesus actually teaches to make a statement like yours. I have studied Jesus carefully from both sides-- 100% fact of life-The teachings of Jesus back the JW teachers-0 doubt.
Like this important one you must not know. Every true follower knows it.
Matthew 6:33--Therefore, keep on seeking-FIRST- the kingdom, and his ( YHVH(Jehovah) righteousness and all these things will be added to you.( sustenance, covering, spirituality)
Hallowed be thy name= YHVH(Jehovah)
Jesus warned most wouldn't know him-John 15:20-21
Jesus calls him( the one who sent him= Father( John 5:30) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD. John 17:1-6,26--verse 6= YHVH(Jehovah) 26 = YHVH(Jehovah) = 0 doubt--The one Jesus teaches is his God as well-John 20:17, Rev 3:12---The wise believe Jesus.

Maybe you could address my posting?

 

[kjw47]

The Bibles used by Protestants are VERY similar to that used within Catholicism My favorite is the Revised Standard Version, which stays as close as conveniently possible to the earliest versions, including the DSS, and it is the number one most used by theologians in various denominations because of its accuracy.

How do you supposedly know they're "false"? Maybe give a couple of examples, plus providing evidence to show how you supposedly know they're "false".

BTW, how many false predictions did your JW masters make when they predicted the "end of times" that didn't occur, then making excuses why they failed? How many times have we seen posts by JW's here that "bear false witness", such as falsely claiming that Catholics worship the sun and statues? How many times have we seen JW's make the claim that Jesus was crucified on a stake, whereas both Roman and Jewish historians have long concluded that the stake was used for impaling, not crucifixion, plus there's no evidence that the Romans used the stake in Israel? How many times have we seen JW's coming here and condemning other denominations en masse, but then chafe if anyone even questions what JW's believe?

Catholics bow to a carved image of Jesus on a cross.
Do you know Jesus? He would never allow the brothers in Christ to stand on both sides of mens wars killing each other. Let alone for a man named Adolf Hitler. Love amongst themselves is one of the true marks.
Trinity translations teach 2 different gods.- 1Cor 8:6 is a good example.

 

[kjw47]

Is there some religion that claims creation occurred after Jesus came to earth???

This is a good example of what can happen when you read about the Trinity from WT sources.



If we could get him to read what he writes it would at least be a start.



I have disagreements with some practices of the Catholic church but this certainly isn't one of them. I consider these type of activities to be in spirit of Christ, not the anti-Christ, that should be recognized as well as encouraged regardless of one's particular faith or doctrine. Well done!



Agreed. When it comes to JW's there's a lot of Romans 10:2 involved. Unlike some I can't say they're anti-Christ but I feel there's a lot of anti-Christian spirit involved. Of course each member will be held accountable for every idle word spoken (Matthew 12:36-37) but a lot more will fall on their leadership:

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves." (Mat: 23:15)
​

Trinity teachers say Collosian 1:15 was at his earth birth. They are 100% in error. He was created direct first and last, All other things created through him( Gods master worker--He speaks at Proverbs 8. It is not YHVH speaking. This is the being who came to earth and was named Jesus as a mortal.

 

[kjw47]

Maybe you could address my posting?

Those scriptures ae speaking about the REAL Jesus. The Jesus who stresses to all 4x in a single paragraph, while sitting at the right hand of God, back in heaven -He has a God--BELIEVE JESUS.

 

[Oeste]

Trinity teachers say Collosian 1:15 was at his earth birth.

Where do you come up with this nonsense?

Here's one for you: Watchtower teachers say Isaiah 11:12 means the earth is flat.

They are 100% in error.

No, you are. Try reading a good book on the Trinity, something from a non-Watchtower source. Find out what the doctrine actually states. Do your best to understand it, ask questions if you don't, then come back and debate the subject.

 

[LightofTruth]

Those scriptures ae speaking about the REAL Jesus.

Right. the "real Jesus" had come in the flesh. The same flesh as the rest of man. That flesh is called "sinful flesh". Anyone who says Jesus' flesh was not the same as the rest of man, is a spirit of antichrist.

 

[metis]

Catholics bow to a carved image of Jesus on a cross.

There's a vast difference between "veneration" and "worship", and we are not taught to do the latter. For example, probably most Christians, including JW's, "venerate" the Bible but don't "worship" it.

Do you know Jesus?

He would never allow the brothers in Christ to stand on both sides of mens wars killing each other.

A reminder that at least some of the apostles carried swords as we see mentioned when Jesus was arrested.

Also, Torah necessitates doing our best to protect the innocent, even if it means using deadly force at last resort. If Jesus negated what's found in Torah, then he could not be the Messiah nor a prophet, but instead would be a "false prophet". Logically, to not protect an innocent person from harm is not love-- it's selfishness.

Trinity translations teach 2 different gods.- 1Cor 8:6 is a good example.

When you repeat that falsehood, as your are persistently doing on this, then you are not doing God's will. As has been explained to you many times here, the Trinitarian concept does not posit polytheism, and even after giving you a link to the concept of "essence" (again, see this link: Essence - Wikipedia ) that explains this, you continue to put forth the same falsehood that your leaders have told you. Do your JW masters tell you that it's moral to repeatedly spew falsehoods like this? They've taught you to repeat other falsehoods as well, and fortunately most churches teach that doing as such is immoral, so maybe check some of them out.

Interpretations can vary, but in this case this is not what the issue is. When official sources are linked you to, such as the "Catechism of the Catholic Church", and yet you then blow that off and state as Catholic dogma something that clearly isn't a Catholic teaching, there's a name for that, and that's called "lying", and this is what your JW leaders are teaching you to repeat.

 

[Muffled]

That was the first place I realized that Jesus is God.

Here is the second:

J5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill Him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

And the third:

R1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send [it] unto the seven churches which are in Asia;
1:18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

I believe my experience was quite different. I received Jesus as Lord and Savior because God is good. That did not come from the Bible so it must have come from the Holy Spirit. At the time I had not read the Bible enough to know what it said about it. Later study revealed the Biblical basis for my belief.

 

[Muffled]

He is 100% clear at John 17:1-6,26--He says--The one who sent him= Father( John 5:30) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD--Verse 6= YHVH(Jehovah) 26= YHVH(Jehovah)-- So no Jesus has 0 to do with a non existent trinity.

I believe Jesus is quite clear that He is one with the Father. You are deceived in your thinking by illogical views.

 

[Muffled]

Right. the "real Jesus" had come in the flesh. The same flesh as the rest of man. That flesh is called "sinful flesh". Anyone who says Jesus' flesh was not the same as the rest of man, is a spirit of antichrist.

I believe I have the Spirit of Christ so I am able to understand what the Bible says. It does say that, because for all intents and purposes He is but what we don't know is what God did in creating the male portion of the conception. Jesus might be somewhat different from our humanity. The only one who knows that is God and He isn't telling.

 

[kjw47]

Where do you come up with this nonsense?

Here's one for you: Watchtower teachers say Isaiah 11:12 means the earth is flat.




No, you are. Try reading a good book on the Trinity, something from a non-Watchtower source. Find out what the doctrine actually states. Do your best to understand it, ask questions if you don't, then come back and debate the subject.

I listen to Jesus first over men- He teaches he has a God like we do-John 20:17, Rev 3:12, and clearly calls the Father-The ONLY TRUE GOD at John 17:3-17:6= YHVH(Jehovah) 17:26= YHVH(Jehovah) -- Hallowed be thy( Father) name= YHVH(Jehovah)- He warned all they wouldn't know him(Father)-John 15:20-21. Paul did-1Corinthians 8:6--There is one God to all-the Father.

 

[kjw47]

There's a vast difference between "veneration" and "worship", and we are not taught to do the latter. For example, probably most Christians, including JW's, "venerate" the Bible but don't "worship" it.



A reminder that at least some of the apostles carried swords as we see mentioned when Jesus was arrested.

Also, Torah necessitates doing our best to protect the innocent, even if it means using deadly force at last resort. If Jesus negated what's found in Torah, then he could not be the Messiah nor a prophet, but instead would be a "false prophet". Logically, to not protect an innocent person from harm is not love-- it's selfishness.

When you repeat that falsehood, as your are persistently doing on this, then you are not doing God's will. As has been explained to you many times here, the Trinitarian concept does not posit polytheism, and even after giving you a link to the concept of "essence" (again, see this link: Essence - Wikipedia ) that explains this, you continue to put forth the same falsehood that your leaders have told you. Do your JW masters tell you that it's moral to repeatedly spew falsehoods like this? They've taught you to repeat other falsehoods as well, and fortunately most churches teach that doing as such is immoral, so maybe check some of them out.

Interpretations can vary, but in this case this is not what the issue is. When official sources are linked you to, such as the "Catechism of the Catholic Church", and yet you then blow that off and state as Catholic dogma something that clearly isn't a Catholic teaching, there's a name for that, and that's called "lying", and this is what your JW leaders are teaching you to repeat.

Fact--The religion that came out of Rome held councils because they did not know truth. They created many false truths such as a trinity god. They allowed pagan practices into both celebrations they created and give to Jesus. Many bad teachings came in( 2Thess 2:3)- They wouldn't allow the flock members to read the bible for themselves until about 1000 years give or take after the councils, it was kept in latin)--Men ran once they could read for themselves, yet they didn't have a clue by then. The only remaining translations were done by the religion that came out of Rome. There are many-proven errors in trinity translations. To mislead away from the true living God=YHVH(Jehovah) Jesus warned all they wouldn't know him-John 15:20-21
The bible calls things like whats bowed to- graven images-lifeless. Icons=a little metal cross. Not favorable according to the bible.

 

[kjw47]

I believe Jesus is quite clear that He is one with the Father. You are deceived in your thinking by illogical views.

I agree--One in purpose as all true followers are as well. They live now to do Jesus Fathers will-Matthew 7:21-- Jesus teaches--The Father is greater than I. He warned all, they wouldn't know him-John 15:20-21)

 

[Oeste]

I listen to Jesus first over men

Why are you separating Jesus from men? Was he an angel?

Also, when did you become a "Red letter" Christian?

 

[sooda]

Red-Letter Christian - Wikipedia


While many Christians throughout church history have defined themselves as emphasizing the teachings of Jesus, this modern movement was initiated by Jim Wallis and Tony Campolo, who felt the religious right spend too much time on two issues: abortion and homosexuality.

They believe Christians should be paying attention to Jesus' words and example by promoting biblical values such as peace, building strong families, the elimination of poverty, and other important social justice issues.[1]

They believe that these are the issues that Jesus spoke of directly, and therefore these issues should be social and political priorities. Other issues such as the question of homosexuality and abortion are viewed as important but over-emphasized by both liberals and conservatives.

 

[metis]

Fact--The religion that came out of Rome held councils because they did not know truth. They created many false truths such as a trinity god. They allowed pagan practices into both celebrations they created and give to Jesus. Many bad teachings came in( 2Thess 2:3)- They wouldn't allow the flock members to read the bible for themselves until about 1000 years give or take after the councils, it was kept in latin)--Men ran once they could read for themselves, yet they didn't have a clue by then. The only remaining translations were done by the religion that came out of Rome. There are many-proven errors in trinity translations. To mislead away from the true living God=YHVH(Jehovah) Jesus warned all they wouldn't know him-John 15:20-21
The bible calls things like whats bowed to- graven images-lifeless. Icons=a little metal cross. Not favorable according to the bible.

There's a solution to your anguish: don't go to a Catholic church and leave us alone so we don't have to read your pathetically bigoted statements. Yours is steeped in myopic hate, whereas our emphasis is on the love of God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and all humankind.

Problem solved.