The Great Wall of Trump

[psychoslice]

It's not even that, but just that going soft encourages them. We should put sniper towers on the wall and be done with it. It'll go from you have a 50/50 chance of dying in the desert to a 100% chance. Cheaper than building concrete walls, just put a tower up every 300 yds. As soon as you hop the fence, blam. We're far too nice.

Yes whatever it takes, I'm for it.

 

[psychoslice]

How are they taking tax payers dollars?

You just don't understand the bigger picture do you ?.

 

[psychoslice]

That's kinda the question, if somewhat more harshly worded than the OP.
Let me use equally straight-forward language.

Not all illegal immigrants are border-jumping Mexicans. So is blowing your wad on a $20 billion wall the smartest spend of a finite resource (money)? Or are there alternative policing methods which would be MORE effective in reducing the level of...err...parasites.

No. get that bloody wall built as soon as possible !!.

 

[psychoslice]

The wall is a great idea to me, it will stop all the parasites taking what they shouldn't take, let them stay where they are.

 

[psychoslice]

That's kinda the question, if somewhat more harshly worded than the OP.
Let me use equally straight-forward language.

Not all illegal immigrants are border-jumping Mexicans. So is blowing your wad on a $20 billion wall the smartest spend of a finite resource (money)? Or are there alternative policing methods which would be MORE effective in reducing the level of...err...parasites.

The thing is that it is happening, and you know that, so, what would you do to stop it ??>

 

[suncowiam]

I am not sure if people are just not getting it, or if they actually believed Trump meant a real, physical wall. Trump's entire campaign message was catered to the middle class working American. He touched on some of their biggest fears, and what irks people the most as they struggle through day to day lives. The imagery of Hispanics coming here and taking jobs, driving up insurance costs, and abusing the system, struck a nerve with a lot of people.

Trump is not an idiot. The Wall was merely allegorical. It was a hammering point for part of his campaign. He knew good and well that the USA would not build a physical wall along our southern border, and he knew good and well Mexico could not be made to pay for it. The whole wall angle was rhetoric.

Just my two cents...

Sounds like a physical wall to me...

Trump’s Plan For The Wall On The Mexican Border Materializes

 

[Neo Deist]

Sounds like a physical wall to me...

Trump’s Plan For The Wall On The Mexican Border Materializes

Please, for the love of all that is whatever, stop citing media outlets as a source. After this last election cycle debacle, I am done reading what some left or right leaning, highly opinionated, tabloidesque journalists have to say about anything. That includes the major networks. Responsible journalism is lost on this generation of imbeciles that pose as reporters.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Comrade Trumpsky wants a wall... just like Gorbachev. I'm not all that surprised. Will it work? Oh, it might give the Hatriots an emotional boost, but it won't keep anyone out...

There are border walls all over the world. Usually they are put up by despots vainly trying to bolster their fragile sense of security. They're all just like Comrade Trumpsky. Why would we want to follow the likes of Soviet Russia or North Korea?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Gorbachev was essentially a liberal dictator.

Good point. The wall actually came down under Gorbachev. OK, Comrade Trumpky's more like Stalin and Khrushchev.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Don't be fooled. Both are narcissistic bullies with a penchant for a slap down. Comrade Trumpksy will be limited by the human rights afforded us by our constitution, but I bet we'll read about his abuses! In fact, I wonder how the transfer of power will go when he loses the next election?

 

[BSM1]

I am not border patrol or INS. I have more important things to worry about (like solving murders). If I arrested everyone that broke a law, the entire population of the USA would be behind bars.

There are no "border laws" or "INS laws" there are just laws. I want to believe that most police officers will arrest law breakers and not try to decide who should or should not be arrested. That's for the courts to decide.

Sure. But he can still interpret the law in his spare time and offer an opinion.

But he seems to be letting this affect his judgement and performance of his sworn duty on the job. We are a nation of laws and if our protectors will not enforce those laws we have anarchy.

So are the people that hire them! What about prosecuting the board of directors at Manpower Inc.?
Tom

100% agreement. Years ago, if memory serves, I received a government form called an E9. The Feds were requiring me to verify the legal status of all my employees. This, I believed, was not a bad idea, but it seems that this form has mysteriously fallen by the wayside.

 

[suncowiam]

Please, for the love of all that is whatever, stop citing media outlets as a source. After this last election cycle debacle, I am done reading what some left or right leaning, highly opinionated, tabloidesque journalists have to say about anything. That includes the major networks. Responsible journalism is lost on this generation of imbeciles that pose as reporters.

Everywhere I read, they suggest trump is going to build a physical wall. If you want some validity to your comment, how are you going to prove it?

 

[suncowiam]

If you take illegally immigrating to a country (which will not delay those who are waiting to get in legallly) and compare it to this very extreme example where not waiting causes death than you aren't really being consistent with your analogies.

This is an extreme example to validate that there is a sense of right and wrong in maintaining a queue when offering resources to the people. But remember I am commenting to your denial about cutting in line as having no morality. If it didnt, why wouldn't people be cutting all the time. But then again it is about the resources that one can attain when being in front of the line. It is always better to be at the first of the line when waiting for something beneficial.

The logic here is that legal immigrants have a formal line for all legal immigrants. If illegals became legals then they would be placed in the same line. It's a simple logic and assertion.

It is time and money that many illegal immigrants take from legal immigrants. It takes months, many times years for legals to get their visas and then green cards. Then there are the same low paying low skilled jobs that are taken. How can it be fair to all when there is a limited amount of resources?

Illegal Vs. Legal Immigration Is A Global Issue

Immigration Reform 2013: It's Not Fair to Legal Immigrants Or Americans

 

[suncowiam]

I really don't understand how one can be politically extreme so as to vote for a president who doesn't do taxes but complains about the strain of illegals to be so bad that they deserve to be shot by snipers at the border.

I didn't vote for Trump but that is the wrong assertion. Trump did his taxes like every other citizen. What he owed is what the tax system allowed him to do. The blame, if you want to put any blame, is with the system. He did it legally. Everything else is arbitrary including your belief that he should have paid more taxes or my opinion that we need to change the tax laws.

 

[suncowiam]

In the scenario you offered there is no moral issue with cutting in line in and of itself. The moral question resides in what occurs after the cut is made rather than the action itself. If cutting in line in and of itself was the moral issue, than cutting in line in the scenario you mentioned and cutting in line in the coffee shop I drop by every morning could be deemed both immoral for the same reason. This is ridiculous. (The coffee shop being a hypothetical example).


Because that's unfair. Something can be unfair without being immoral.


An illegal hopping the border does not cause a legal migrant to lose time. They also don't take money from legal migrants.


and this would not change even if illegals stopped.


The concept of others coming in and taking "our" jobs is a useless division I don't care much for. Perhaps the real issue is job creation rather than illegal immigrants, eh?

Ok great, it's a typical RF requirement to define the word that we are debating over... So here it is.

mo·ral·i·ty
məˈralədē/
noun
principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior.
synonyms: ethics, rights and wrongs, ethicality

I read right and wrong, good and bad. Do you agree?

Also...


The additional logic here is that legal immigrants have a formal line for all legal immigrants. If illegals became legals then they would be placed in the same line. It's a simple logic and assertion.

Concerning job creation, can you guarantee enough jobs for everyone?

 

[Scuba Pete]

I want to believe that most police officers will arrest law breakers and not try to decide who should or should not be arrested.

Why would you believe that? Why would you want that? Jurisdiction is important. We don't want traffic police to try to enforce tax laws. Neither do we want BATF officers enforcing immigration laws. They probably don't know enough to do them properly. I live in the Florida Keys and it's obvious that we have the largest law enforcement presence per capita than anywhere else in the US, including the DEA, INS, EPA, CIA, FBI, Fish and Wildlife, Coasties, our local Sheriffs and the FWC (Florida Wildlife Commission). It's not unusual to see multiple agencies present at the same scene, making sure that their laws are being obeyed. The Coasties are going to enforce maritime law and only maritime law. They and FWC are usually the first ones on the scene and they call in others from there. While the FWC enforces local boating laws, they concentrate on poaching and the like. If square grouper are present, the Coasties can (and will) deal with them under federal mandate, but it's not unusual for the DEA to jump on it. It's like a legal division of labor: The Legal Teamsters! About the only agency that doesn't appear to have a large presence here is BATF.

 

[Scuba Pete]

The additional logic here is that legal immigrants have a formal line for all legal immigrants.

I wonder if Komrade Trumpsky is going to build a wall between Cuba and Florida. Right now, we have a "wet foot/dry foot" law. If a Cuban can get ashore, then they are welcome. If they get caught in knee deep water then they are not and get shipped back.

Every wave of immigration has had it's detractors. Most of it seems to be based in bigotry of some sort. OK, you won the birth lottery and are here in the US through no decision of your own. We meed tp decriminalize immigration and make it easy for EVERYONE. Our strength lies in our diversity and we need new blood.

 

[suncowiam]

I wonder if Komrade Trumpsky is going to build a wall between Cuba and Florida. Right now, we have a "wet foot/dry foot" law. If a Cuban can get ashore, then they are welcome. If they get caught in knee deep water then they are not and get shipped back.

Every wave of immigration has had it's detractors. Most of it seems to be based in bigotry of some sort. OK, you won the birth lottery and are here in the US through no decision of your own. We meed tp decriminalize immigration and make it easy for EVERYONE. Our strength lies in our diversity and we need new blood.

Many points here to agree and disagree with and new topics to introduce...

Ironically, my personal story is very much like the Cuban refugee you speak of. I am a boat refugee from the Vietnam war. We sold most of our belongings to escape Vietnam in a boat. We risked pirates in Thailand and then settled in a refugee camp with makeshift sheltered for almost a year in Hong Kong or Taiwan. I was very young so I don't remember which location. And then we stayed in actual housing in Singapore. We were finally sponsored by our uncle to finish the remaining journey by cargo ship and plane to San Francisco.

With that said, I do see a distinction between immigrants and their cases. My opinions are different concerning Muslim war refugees to my own relatives or Mexican immigrants. We need a different system to help those like the Cuban refugee you mentioned and the Muslims escape war and genocide. Much of your Cuban reference is due to the Cuban dictatorship. It is a illogical and unethical to force Cuban refugees through that system. Concerning my past, I would always argue for some form of assistance for these folks even at some cost of national security. Beyond that, I expect them to integrate like my family and I have done in the US, if they were given residency. We all have to be become good citizens and obey the laws.

I agree with immigration and diversity, being a minority. As I have said before, I'm not against immigration but against illegal immigration. I understand there are many poor immigrants. My immediate relatives are better off because we are have been well established in the US and we send back assistance more so. Other Vietnamese are not and I can argue that they are as deserving of an immigration status as anyone crossing the border illegally. Yet, they have to wait legally in the processing queue. It is wrong for others to circumvent this process as I have noted in my other comments.

If you or anyone can argue that a nation does not need unlimited resources to unbound its populations, then I would agree with you. Otherwise, in trying to help more, I would argue it would be hurting all. I'm not against helping others, but I think we can find a reasonable and healthy way of do it.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Beyond that, I expect them to integrate like my family and I have done in the US, if they were given residency.

I remember the time well... you were welcomed with open arms as were all Vietnamese at the time. Churches, families (some Vietnamese, some not) and other organizations made arrangements to relocate them across the US. It was the American thing to do and we need to keep doing it.

 

[Scuba Pete]

That post was directed at the member who was talking about setting up sniper nests.

Is that type of violent rhetoric even allowed here? I missed it, else I would have reported it.