The Great Wall of Trump

[columbus]

Yes that is true, but if the immigrants were't there in the first place, it wouldn't happen, they would have to employ their own people, and therefore the unemployment would drop.

If we didn't hire them by the millions they wouldn't be here.
Or, to be more precise, if we had been enforcing the law against hiring them for the last 25 years they wouldn't have been given so many jobs.
Tom

 

[psychoslice]

Yeah, I would love to see your data supporting that conclusion. I don't believe it exists. I'm guessing it's more emotional than empirical. All of the studies I have seen on the subject are mixed. CIS openly states that there isn't enough empirical data to determine it one way or the other. Obviously, it's not that big of factor if it can't be reliably quantified.

Yes we don't really know the full truth, but the thing is, they are breaking the law and should not be there, its that simple.

 

[Scuba Pete]

but if the immigrants were't there in the first place,

You know, the Orlando Police Department made huge inroads to getting control of prostitution by arresting, charging and publishing the names of the Johns. If you make it embarrassing for the consumers then they won't be employing the illegals. Absolutely brilliant!

 

[psychoslice]

If we didn't hire them by the millions they wouldn't be here.
Or, to be more precise, if we had been enforcing the law against hiring them for the last 25 years they wouldn't have been given so many jobs.
Tom

That is true also, and I hope Trump will finally sort the whole mess out.

 

[Scuba Pete]

we don't really know the full truth,

You don't know. You know that you don't know, but you want to make policy based on emotions anyway??? It's the Republican way, n'est pas?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

The thing is that it is happening, and you know that, so, what would you do to stop it ??>

I think it's worth examining something like the Bracero program, from the 60's, and seeing if a more modern version could be implemented.
I also think things like the existing E-verify system, or a similar means of assessing worker eligibility could be more cheaply implemented, with the onus on employers to mandatorily use it.
Finally, I think there should be a beef-up of the checks and policing of legal visa overstays, which account for a large portion of the illegal immigration anyway.

These measures would support each other, and I'd estimate they'd be considerably cheaper than a wall.

Similarly, there is nothing wrong with beefing up border security to some degree. I just don't see a physical wall which then needs to be maintained, and can be breached in remote locations as a sensible spend of funds.

Your thoughts on those?

 

[columbus]

That is true also, and I hope Trump will finally sort the whole mess out.

Is this the same Trump who promised a Wall that Mexico would pay for?
The same Trump who promised to release his tax returns?
The same Trump who is being sued by the students of Trump University?
Oh that Trump.
Yeah right.
Tom

 

[psychoslice]

You don't know. You know that you don't know, but you want to make policy based on emotions anyway??? It's the Republican way, n'est pas?

As you yourself don't know, so join the party.

 

[Scuba Pete]

As you yourself don't know, so join the party.

But I'm not trying to enact policy based on sheer ignorance.

 

[psychoslice]

You don't know. You know that you don't know, but you want to make policy based on emotions anyway??? It's the Republican way, n'est pas?

As you yourself don't know, so join the party.

I think it's worth examining something like the Bracero program, from the 60's, and seeing if a more modern version could be implemented.
I also think things like the existing E-verify system, or a similar means of assessing worker eligibility could be more cheaply implemented, with the onus on employers to mandatorily use it.
Finally, I think there should be a beef-up of the checks and policing of legal visa overstays, which account for a large portion of the illegal immigration anyway.

These measures would support each other, and I'd estimate they'd be considerably cheaper than a wall.

Similarly, there is nothing wrong with beefing up border security to some degree. I just don't see a physical wall which then needs to be maintained, and can be breached in remote locations as a sensible spend of funds.

Your thoughts on those?

Well if the wall works then great, something has to be done

But I'm not trying to enact policy based on sheer ignorance.

I am not either.

 

[sovietchild]

 

[Scuba Pete]

Well if the wall works then great, something has to be done

Maybe, just maybe that's not what needs to be 'done'. You've admitted that you don't know the impact and you seem to be certain that no one does. So why not figure out if it impacts us much at all before we spend all that money? This is a case of "Ready, FIRE!, Aim..." Acting off of your emotions can very well exacerbate the situation. Needless expenditures, such as wars and building stupid walls, will only increase our deficit which is NOT good. Let's reduce the military, stop trying to be the world police, invest in our infrastructure but lower taxes the old fashion way: by spending less.

 

[psychoslice]

Maybe, just maybe that's not what needs to be 'done'. You've admitted that you don't know the impact and you seem to be certain that no one does. So why not figure out if it impacts us much at all before we spend all that money? This is a case of "Ready, FIRE!, Aim..." Acting off of your emotions can very well exacerbate the situation. Needless expenditures, such as wars and building stupid walls, will only increase our deficit which is NOT good. Let's reduce the military, stop trying to be the world police, invest in our infrastructure but lower taxes the old fashion way: by spending less.

Ok, how would you stop them breaking the law, instead of the wall, shot them ?.

 

[columbus]

Ok, how would you stop them breaking the law, instead of the wall, shot them ?.

Prosecute the people who hire them.
The problem is not that they are here. It's that employers prefer cheap labor with no rights, when they are allowed to hire them over citizens.
Tom

 

[psychoslice]

Prosecute the people who hire them.
The problem is not that they are here. It's that employers prefer cheap labor with no rights, when they are allowed to hire them over citizens.
Tom

What about the crime rate, the ones who don't want to work, they have to get money some how /.

 

[Revoltingest]

Prosecute the people who hire them.
The problem is not that they are here. It's that employers prefer cheap labor with no rights, when they are allowed to hire them over citizens.
Tom

If no one hires them, how do they survive?

 

[fantome profane]

If no one hires them, how do they survive?

The idea is that if it is more difficult to get hired as an illegal more will decide either to stay in their home country or immigrate legally.

 

[columbus]

What about the crime rate, the ones who don't want to work, they have to get money some how /.

If we vetted them a bit it would stop being a problem.
By and large they are not problems. Most of them try hard not to be noticed by the government, less crime and welfare and social issues than ordinary people. But as long as we insist on a shadow culture of illegal immigrants there will be far more problems than might be.
Tom

 

[columbus]

If no one hires them, how do they survive?

They move back.
Frankly, I see zero chance of that happening to any large degree. Because employers want them and will force the government to figure out a way to keep them.
Tom

 

[psychoslice]

If we vetted them a bit it would stop being a problem.
By and large they are not problems. Most of them try hard not to be noticed by the government, less crime and welfare and social issues than ordinary people. But as long as we insist on a shadow culture of illegal immigrants there will be far more problems than might be.
Tom

But it always come back to the realty, and that is they should not be there in the first place, so no all argument are in vain, get them out of the country and let them come in legally.