The hymen doesn't work that way, bible.

[Skwim]

We can be literal. Just not so literal as to be stupid.

"Literal stupid" kicking in when the defense of scripture is pretty much blown away. Understood.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

It doesn't break, it tears and I doubt very much that study included minors which is generally who was getting married back then.

And although there is no 100% infallible test, there are tests, obviously.

Colloquial description notwithstanding, I've already told you the test did include minors. It says right there.

It's not that it's just fallible, it's wrong more than half the time. You'd get better determination through a coin flip.

 

[Thana]

Colloquial description notwithstanding, I've already told you the test did include minors. It says right there.

It's not that it's just fallible, it's wrong more than half the time. You'd get better determination through a coin flip.

Virginity was apparently important to them back then, and bleeding was a good indicator of it.

God said that adulterers and those who had pre-marital sex are sinners, And that's it. The whole virgin blood cloth thing was just the Jews best attempt at determining such and was not a specific command, edict or instruction from God Himself.

So your OP is moot at best. Either way

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Virginity was apparently important to them back then, and bleeding was a good indicator of it.

God said that adulterers and those who had pre-marital sex are sinners, And that's it. The whole virgin blood cloth thing was just the Jews best attempt at determining such and was not a specific command, edict or instruction from God Himself.

So your OP is moot at best. Either way

Except it wasn't a good indication, less accurate than a coin flip.

So you're saying that the old covenant was not from God, but a product of man and their shortcomings?

 

[SkepticThinker]

I'm happy for you...?

Don't you think it's a bit odd? All this emphasis on female virginity?

 

[Tumah]

Don't you think it's a bit odd? All this emphasis on female virginity?

Yeah, you know something, you're right. 9 verses out of over 5,800 (in the Pentateuch) does seem overly emphatic.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yeah, you know something, you're right. 9 verses out of over 5,800 (in the Pentateuch) does seem overly emphatic.

That doesn't really answer the question though. There is an emphasis on female sexuality, given the discussion being had here.

 

[rosends]

That doesn't really answer the question though. There is an emphasis on female sexuality, given the discussion being had here.

Is the emphasis textual or is the emphasis based on the attention people are giving to the limited textual resources?

 

[icehorse]

Back to the OP:

There is no such thing as reasonable or accurate virginity testing for women.

This one sentence is worth the price of admission, and should be more generally known. Great thread, just for this one sentence!

 

[Tumah]

That doesn't really answer the question though. There is an emphasis on female sexuality, given the discussion being had here.

Nice slight of hand.

 

[Thana]

Except it wasn't a good indication, less accurate than a coin flip.

So you're saying that the old covenant was not from God, but a product of man and their shortcomings?

I don't know what the convenant has to do with anything?

Or are you trying to imply that every single word in the bible is specifically from God? Because that's just not even remotely true. Think of Psalms. That's just a long book of people praying, praising, begging and lamenting to God.
Proverbs is just Solomon sharing his Wisdom and His understanding of Godly Wisdom and life. Ecclesiastes is practically an essay on Nihilism.

And I don't recall God saying anything about blood on cloth or what is or is not an indicator of virginity, Do you?
It was simply something people practiced and was recorded in the bible as a way that the people of that time determined virginity.

 

[fantome profane]

But finding blood on the sheet is a strong indicator that she was a virgin.

No it is not. That is a myth. It really is that simple.

 

[CG Didymus]

If it all is not from God, which part is and which part isn't? And, why do some people refer to it as "The Word of God"? So who do you think wrote Deuteronomy and told the people to stone a non-virgin? It sure seems as if they were speaking as if God gave them those instructions? If it were just a bunch of old men trying to scare woman not to fool around and wrote it in such a way as to make it seem like it was a command from God, then that makes a lot of sense. But, if God dictated it to some old man, and told him that those that fail the virginity test must be stoned, then can we trust such a God? You seem like a strong believer, so how do you decide where it's God giving a command and when it's just a bunch of men making some rules up as they go?

 

[Thana]

If it all is not from God, which part is and which part isn't? And, why do some people refer to it as "The Word of God"? So who do you think wrote Deuteronomy and told the people to stone a non-virgin? It sure seems as if they were speaking as if God gave them those instructions? If it were just a bunch of old men trying to scare woman not to fool around and wrote it in such a way as to make it seem like it was a command from God, then that makes a lot of sense. But, if God dictated it to some old man, and told him that those that fail the virginity test must be stoned, then can we trust such a God? You seem like a strong believer, so how do you decide where it's God giving a command and when it's just a bunch of men making some rules up as they go?

The parts that say they're from God and the parts that you know, don't.

God didn't command the virginity test, He just commanded His people not to have pre-marital/extra-marital sex and His people went on to perform what they thought were virginity tests as their way of keeping His command. They interpreted it as such, and wrote it as such and performed as such but that doesn't mean God commanded as such.

 

[fantome profane]

If it all is not from God, which part is and which part isn't? And, why do some people refer to it as "The Word of God"? So who do you think wrote Deuteronomy and told the people to stone a non-virgin? It sure seems as if they were speaking as if God gave them those instructions? If it were just a bunch of old men trying to scare woman not to fool around and wrote it in such a way as to make it seem like it was a command from God, then that makes a lot of sense. But, if God dictated it to some old man, and told him that those that fail the virginity test must be stoned, then can we trust such a God? You seem like a strong believer, so how do you decide where it's God giving a command and when it's just a bunch of men making some rules up as they go?

This is a good point when you consider the origin of Deuteronomy. It was supposedly "found" in 621 BC and the guy who "found" it basically said "see, all the things I have been telling you are written down here in this ancient book of scripture that no one has ever heard of before". The skeptic in me finds that interesting.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

The parts that say they're from God and the parts that you know, don't.

God didn't command the virginity test, He just commanded His people not to have pre-marital/extra-marital sex and His people went on to perform what they thought were virginity tests as their way of keeping His command. They interpreted it as such, and wrote it as such and performed as such but that doesn't mean God commanded as such.

The old covenant is all of the Torah (law) including the core 10 commandments and the rest of Moses law. Jesus does not refer to the law of Moses as something not from God, but calls the 10 commandments part of Moses law, brought through Moses to Israel, establishing their covenant. This wasn't just a recording of what people did and I really do not know of many people who think, for example, levitical law was merely something they did, not ordained by God. Deuteronical law is the same.
And part of the old covenant by God through Moses given to the Israelites included stoning women who failed virginity checks at marriage.

 

[Skwim]

I find it appalling that any god would command any such revolting practice at all.

It is a revolting practice, but when one considers all the other dastardly, and outright heinous things god did it doesn't come as any surprise. It's almost as if god hates people---concocting absurd reasons to make them suffer. That people can turn a blind eye to these abominations and instead venerate such a god is beyond reason. My reason anyway.

 

[Thana]

The old covenant is all of the Torah (law) including the core 10 commandments and the rest of Moses law. Jesus does not refer to the law of Moses as something not from God, but calls the 10 commandments part of Moses law, brought through Moses to Israel, establishing their covenant. This wasn't just a recording of what people did and I really do not know of many people who think, for example, levitical law was merely something they did, not ordained by God. Deuteronical law is the same.
And part of the old covenant by God through Moses given to the Israelites included stoning women who failed virginity checks at marriage.

Let's put this to rest once and for all.

Show me scripture that is of God Himself commanding and/or instructing His people to perform virginity checks and/or how to perform them.

Because as far as I am aware, The only relevant thing God commanded His people to do was refrain from pre-martial and extra-marital sex.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Let's put this to rest once and for all.

Show me scripture that is of God Himself commanding and/or instructing His people to perform virginity checks and/or how to perform them.

Because as far as I am aware, The only relevant thing God commanded His people to do was refrain from pre-martial and extra-marital sex.

I feel like I already answered this. The scripture itself, if the vast majority of both Jewish and Christian scholarship is right, IS a commandment from God and instruction on how to preform. Just like the rest of the Mosaic law is.

 

[Thana]

I feel like I already answered this. The scripture itself, if the vast majority of both Jewish and Christian scholarship is right, IS a commandment from God and instruction on how to preform. Just like the rest of the Mosaic law is.

And where does it say any of that?