The Hypocrisy of Christian Denominations

[Katzpur]

Whoever Is Not Against Us Is for Us

38"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us." 39"Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40for whoever is not against us is for us. 41I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.

That's one of my very favorite scriptures, Jeremy. Seriously, Jesus never defined the word "Christian," but He did say that people would know His disciples by the love they showed for one another. We spend far too much focusing on our differences and not nearly enough time trying to follow His example of loving unconditionally.

 

[Ben Masada]

That's one of my very favorite scriptures, Jeremy. Seriously, Jesus never defined the word "Christian," but He did say that people would know His disciples by the love they showed for one another. We spend far too much focusing on our differences and not nearly enough time trying to follow His example of loving unconditionally.

If you allow me, I would like to tell you why Jesus never defined the word "Christian." Because that word did not exist for another 30 years. If you read Acts 11:26, you will see that it was then for the first time the Nazarenes of Antioch were called Christians because Paul had spent there one year preaching that Jesus was Christ. That's an evidence that nobody knew Jesus was Christ until Paul showed up preaching about him as such. It's only obvious that Paul was the one who fabricated the idea.

Ben :clap

 

[Scuba Pete]

That's one of my very favorite scriptures, Jeremy. Seriously, Jesus never defined the word "Christian," but He did say that people would know His disciples by the love they showed for one another. We spend far too much focusing on our differences and not nearly enough time trying to follow His example of loving unconditionally.

Hey... that's my line!

 

[Ben Masada]

Other religions have more than one type, the Jews have Orthodox, Conservative, and Reformed. I know that Buddhists have more than one kind. I learned in a class that a long time ago that Buddhism and Hinduism were the same faith and separated. So Christians aren't the only ones.

Of course not! I wonder if there are factions also within the Atheistic faith.

Ben

 

[autonomous1one1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur
That's one of my very favorite scriptures, Jeremy. Seriously, Jesus never defined the word "Christian," but He did say that people would know His disciples by the love they showed for one another. We spend far too much focusing on our differences and not nearly enough time trying to follow His example of loving unconditionally.

Hey... that's my line!

I bow :bow: to your wisdom, Scub, in supporting Katzpur's wisdom.

 

[ChristineES]

As far as I can tell, all the Apostles stayed Jews. Even Peter had a hard time with Paul about the eating of unclean foods (talked about in Acts). It seemed that it was easy for Paul to leave behind his Jewish faith, but it was harder for someone like Simon Peter.

 

[Elessar]

What do you mean "Leave behind" Judaism!?!? Some of us Messianic Jews proudly lived in the shtetls and kept kosher for two millennia, alongside our brothers, the Sons of Jacob and Judah, despite the oppression and suppression by the Christian Church.

That's why I don't identify myself as a Christian. While by the strictest sense, I suppose I probably am, but "Christian" has a connotation of people who abandon most of the mitzvot, who are not Jewish in any sense, who give up the ordained High Holy Days, and so on. And that's not me.

Do I believe Yeshua was the messiah? Yes. Does that make me cease to be a Jew? I and many generations of ancestors say no.[/offtopicness]

Back onto the topic - I agree that Christians need to cool off a bit about the differentiation between sects. I know in my synagogue, the newer Messianic - that is, people who they themselves or their parents became Messianic from Orthodox, Conservative or Reform Judaism - tend to get caught up in that too. They tend to question as to whether various Christian denominations are saved - especially Catholics, Mormons, Orthodox, (Hashem)'s Witnesses, and the more conservative Protestant denominations. This hostility toward Catholics, for this and other reasons, was enough to effectively force me to break off a relationship with my Catholic girlfriend to avoid alienation by the community. Of course, that wasn't all of it, since HER community was close to alienating her for considering a relationship with a non-Puerto Rican non-Catholic, but I digress.

My point is - I agree. People need to stop trying to divide a faith which Messiah brought together. The point is salvation through Messiah, and nothing else. All other differences in tradition are just that - differences in tradition. While tradition matters deeply, it should not divide people.

 

[ChristineES]

I think you misunderstood what I was saying, Ellesar. Paul did not seem to want to stay Jewish, while all the other Apostles did. It was Paul who coined the term "Christian" in the first place.
I apologize if I offended you. I have Jewish ancestors myself on my mother's side. I never said that Jews could not believe in Jesus. At least I didn't mean to.

 

[Elessar]

No worries, one just tends to get defensive when you hear it all the time.

 

[ChristineES]

No worries, one just tends to get defensive when you hear it all the time.

I can well imagine.

 

[Ben Masada]

What do you mean "Leave behind" Judaism!?!? Some of us Messianic Jews proudly lived in the shtetls and kept kosher for two millennia, alongside our brothers, the Sons of Jacob and Judah, despite the oppression and suppression by the Christian Church.

That's why I don't identify myself as a Christian. While by the strictest sense, I suppose I probably am, but "Christian" has a connotation of people who abandon most of the mitzvot, who are not Jewish in any sense, who give up the ordained High Holy Days, and so on. And that's not me.

Do I believe Yeshua was the messiah? Yes. Does that make me cease to be a Jew? I and many generations of ancestors say no.[/offtopicness]

Back onto the topic - I agree that Christians need to cool off a bit about the differentiation between sects. I know in my synagogue, the newer Messianic - that is, people who they themselves or their parents became Messianic from Orthodox, Conservative or Reform Judaism - tend to get caught up in that too. They tend to question as to whether various Christian denominations are saved - especially Catholics, Mormons, Orthodox, (Hashem)'s Witnesses, and the more conservative Protestant denominations. This hostility toward Catholics, for this and other reasons, was enough to effectively force me to break off a relationship with my Catholic girlfriend to avoid alienation by the community. Of course, that wasn't all of it, since HER community was close to alienating her for considering a relationship with a non-Puerto Rican non-Catholic, but I digress.

My point is - I agree. People need to stop trying to divide a faith which Messiah brought together. The point is salvation through Messiah, and nothing else. All other differences in tradition are just that - differences in tradition. While tradition matters deeply, it should not divide people.

Sorry my friend, but the definition of a Christian is the one who believes that Jesus was Christ. Therefore, you are a Christian. There is no such a thing as a Jew who
follows the things of Christianity. At the time of Elijah there were also Jews who practised Pagan rites and insisted on their Jewish identity. They were called the
"Jews-for-Baal." Constantly straddling the issue until Elijah put them to the test and 450 of their prophets were killed. (I Kings 18:21)

Ben :sorry1:

 

[Riverwolf]

Sorry my friend, but the definition of a Christian is the one who believes that Jesus was Christ. Therefore, you are a Christian. There is no such a thing as a Jew who
follows the things of Christianity. At the time of Elijah there were also Jews who practised Pagan rites and insisted on their Jewish identity. They were called the
"Jews-for-Baal." Constantly straddling the issue until Elijah put them to the test and 450 of their prophets were killed. (I Kings 18:21)

Ben :sorry1:

What? You can't be a Jewish Christian?

In all seriousness, what separates Messianic Jews from other forms of Christianity is that they still follow Jewish laws and customs, which many Christian denominations don't. Am I right, Elessar?

 

[Ben Masada]

What? You can't be a Jewish Christian?

In all seriousness, what separates Messianic Jews from other forms of Christianity is that they still follow Jewish laws and customs, which many Christian denominations don't. Am I right, Elessar?

That's right Riverwolf, there is no such a thing as a Jewish Christian or a Christian Jew, or a Jewish Buddhist or a Buddhist Jew, a Jewish Catholic or a Catholic Jew, and so forth. As well as there is no such a thing as a half Jew.

To believe that Jesus was the Messiah, son of God, and that he resurrected is Christian. If I a Jew decides to believe those things about Jesus, that's his confession that he has quit being Jewish and becomes a Christian.

Jewishness is not a race but a religion. Religions are not like Countries, which you can hold a dual citizenship with. Some Jews like to think that once they are born from Jewish parents, they will never lose it. Oh! They will. And they do at the moment they profess the tenents of another religion.

Ben:sorry1:

 

[Jeremy Mason]

That's one of my very favorite scriptures, Jeremy. Seriously, Jesus never defined the word "Christian," but He did say that people would know His disciples by the love they showed for one another. We spend far too much focusing on our differences and not nearly enough time trying to follow His example of loving unconditionally.

Thanks, it's one of mine as well. Your right, people need to focus more on their own shortcomings and let other do the same. Lead by example and not from the pulpit.

 

[Riverwolf]

That's right Riverwolf, there is no such a thing as a Jewish Christian or a Christian Jew, or a Jewish Buddhist or a Buddhist Jew, a Jewish Catholic or a Catholic Jew, and so forth. As well as there is no such a thing as a half Jew.

To believe that Jesus was the Messiah, son of God, and that he resurrected is Christian. If I a Jew decides to believe those things about Jesus, that's his confession that he has quit being Jewish and becomes a Christian.

Jewishness is not a race but a religion. Religions are not like Countries, which you can hold a dual citizenship with. Some Jews like to think that once they are born from Jewish parents, they will never lose it. Oh! They will. And they do at the moment they profess the tenents of another religion.

Ben:sorry1:

Why? Judaism is more than a religion; it's an entire culture with it's own laws and traditions; accepting Jesus as the Messiah doesn't mean you have to forsake all those traditions. Don't forget that Jesus was Jewish, as were his followers.

Having more than one religion doesn't mean "halving" them to contain them; a Christian Jew isn't half-Jew, half-Christian. I know that I use many philosophies from all religions to create my own. Obviously I can't take every single one of them literally, but looking at the message being said, I can look past the contradictions and embrace Buddhism along with Taoism fully, and Christianity in terms of the philosophy of Jesus without believing him to be some long-awaited Messiah.

 

[Ben Masada]

Why? Judaism is more than a religion; it's an entire culture with it's own laws and traditions; accepting Jesus as the Messiah doesn't mean you have to forsake all those traditions. Don't forget that Jesus was Jewish, as were his followers.

Having more than one religion doesn't mean "halving" them to contain them; a Christian Jew isn't half-Jew, half-Christian. I know that I use many philosophies from all religions to create my own. Obviously I can't take every single one of them literally, but looking at the message being said, I can look past the contradictions and embrace Buddhism along with Taoism fully, and Christianity in terms of the philosophy of Jesus without believing him to be some long-awaited Messiah.

Sorry my friend, I am not the one who made the Law. I just agree with it. Ask any Israeli diplomat and you will have the same answer. I mean, with regards to the Law of Return. A "Messianic Jew" or "Jews-for-Jesus" to get into Israel he or she has to lie or hide his or her new faith. There is no illigibility for such people to claim the Law of Return and settle in Israel.

Yes, you are right about Jesus and his followers. They were Jewish from the beginning to the end. But none of them had anything to do with Christianity. Paul and his followers yes, they quit Judaism for Christianity which was founded by Paul.
(Acts 11:26) And having more than one religion may work for you but not according to Judaism. And again I say: I did not make the Law.

Ben:sorry1:

 

[LuisDantas]

Uh... what's with the first page of this topic and tigers anyway?

One would think there is some sort of bonus for those who adhere to the tiger motif or something.

 

[Riverwolf]

Sorry my friend, I am not the one who made the Law. I just agree with it. Ask any Israeli diplomat and you will have the same answer. I mean, with regards to the Law of Return. A "Messianic Jew" or "Jews-for-Jesus" to get into Israel he or she has to lie or hide his or her new faith. There is no illigibility for such people to claim the Law of Return and settle in Israel.

Uh... you're not making any sense. Are you saying that religion is only ever all or none? 'Cause that was never the case.

And you don't have to follow Paul to be a Christian. I know there are some who would debate me on this, and that's probably a topic for another thread, but I view it as being about whether or not one believes Jesus to be the Messiah. You can still believe that while adhering to Jewish tradition, thus making you a Jewish Christian, or Messianic Jew.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

uh... What's with the first page of this topic and tigers anyway?

Thhhhheeerrrre great!

 

[Ben Masada]

Uh... you're not making any sense. Are you saying that religion is only ever all or none? 'Cause that was never the case.

And you don't have to follow Paul to be a Christian. I know there are some who would debate me on this, and that's probably a topic for another thread, but I view it as being about whether or not one believes Jesus to be the Messiah. You can still believe that while adhering to Jewish tradition, thus making you a Jewish Christian, or Messianic Jew.

That's where you err! You don't have to follow Paul to be a Christian!
That's exactly what you have to do in order to be called a Christian.
Without Paul there would be no Christianity. Paul was the founder of Christianity.
You cannot be a Christian if you don't follow in the footsteps of Paul.
And that's what it is to believe Jesus as the Messiah.

No, sir! You cannot hold unto those beliefs and still adhere to Judaism.
Therefore, no Jewish Christian or Messianic Jew.

Ben:sorry1: