The Hypocrisy of Christian Denominations

[Elessar]

Judaism in and of itself is a messianic faith. The Talmud speaks of Moshiach ben Yosef, a suffering messiah who would die as a sacrifice to G-d for Israel, and Moshiach ben David, the conquering messiah who would free the Jews and establish G-d's sovereignty on Earth. The Talmud does not state whether these two are different or the same; Messianic Jews believe that they are the same, with resurrection of the dead - a critical and essential belief in early Rabbinic Judaism, and one confirmed in the Tanakh and Talmud.

The separation of Christianity and Judaism is the Pauline doctrine and the Constantinian Statute. It was Constantine, first, who declared that a Jew cannot believe in Yeshua as messiah and remain a Jew, and the Rabbis, rightly or wrongly, accepted this imposed-from-without doctrine to avoid oppression. It was Paul who declared that not all the mitzvot are necessary. While most Messianic Jews believe they are not binding for gentiles, the mitzvot are eternally applicable to the Jews, especially to Messianic Jews. I didn't just fast for 24 hours because I *felt* like it.

As Ya'akov ben Yosef wrote on the Pauline doctrine, "But someone will say that you have faith and I have actions. Show me this faith of yours without the actions, and I will show you my faith by my actions. You believe "Hashem Echad" [Parashah 45:90]? Good for you! The demons believe it too - the thought makes them shudder with fear! But, foolish fellow, do you want to be shown that such "faith" apart from actions is barren? Wasn't Avraham avinu declared righteous because of actions when he offered up his son Yitz'chak on the altar? You see that his faith worked with his actions; by the actions the faith was made complete; and the passage of the Tanakh was fulfilled which says, "He believed in Hashem, and he credited it to him as righteousness" [Parashah 3:68]. He was even called G-d's friend [Yesha'yahu 41:8]. You see that a person is declared righteous by his actions." (Ya'akov 1:18-24 CJB)

 

[Riverwolf]

Jesus taught a lot of good things thats for sure.

The reason our faith would be in vain if jesus did not rise from the dead, is that he didnt accomplish that which he was suppose to do while he was in the belly of the earth. Set us free from the prison of darkness.

If he didnt rise from the dead, it means that he took the sins of the world upon him, then died and remained in the holding place for the dead. But since he died and he did rise from the dead, it means that death did have a hold on him, since the sins of the people who he carried was wiped out by god, thereby making jesus and us innocent before god. If jesus did not rise from the dead, we were not translated out of the kingdom of darkness and into the kingdom of light.

Anyway...i guess this is a bit off topic.



heneni

Like, I hear, is fully detailed in the Gospel of Nicodemus.

I consider Jesus more of a teacher and a sage, like Buddha. I believe that focusing too much on the death and resurrection of Jesus can (not will, just can) distract from the message he was trying to say. After all, whether or not he was killed and resurrected, his words retain their power and immortality.

 

[ChristineES]

That is true, Riverwolf. While I believe that Jesus' death and resurrection was important, His message was also very important. It is important for a follower of Jesus to actually follow His commands.

 

[Ben Masada]

Judaism in and of itself is a messianic faith. The Talmud speaks of Moshiach ben Yosef, a suffering messiah who would die as a sacrifice to G-d for Israel, and Moshiach ben David, the conquering messiah who would free the Jews and establish G-d's sovereignty on Earth. The Talmud does not state whether these two are different or the same; Messianic Jews believe that they are the same, with resurrection of the dead - a critical and essential belief in early Rabbinic Judaism, and one confirmed in the Tanakh and Talmud.

The separation of Christianity and Judaism is the Pauline doctrine and the Constantinian Statute. It was Constantine, first, who declared that a Jew cannot believe in Yeshua as messiah and remain a Jew, and the Rabbis, rightly or wrongly, accepted this imposed-from-without doctrine to avoid oppression. It was Paul who declared that not all the mitzvot are necessary. While most Messianic Jews believe they are not binding for gentiles, the mitzvot are eternally applicable to the Jews, especially to Messianic Jews. I didn't just fast for 24 hours because I *felt* like it.

As Ya'akov ben Yosef wrote on the Pauline doctrine, "But someone will say that you have faith and I have actions. Show me this faith of yours without the actions, and I will show you my faith by my actions. You believe "Hashem Echad" [Parashah 45:90]? Good for you! The demons believe it too - the thought makes them shudder with fear! But, foolish fellow, do you want to be shown that such "faith" apart from actions is barren? Wasn't Avraham avinu declared righteous because of actions when he offered up his son Yitz'chak on the altar? You see that his faith worked with his actions; by the actions the faith was made complete; and the passage of the Tanakh was fulfilled which says, "He believed in Hashem, and he credited it to him as righteousness" [Parashah 3:68]. He was even called G-d's friend [Yesha'yahu 41:8]. You see that a person is declared righteous by his actions." (Ya'akov 1:18-24 CJB)

I agree with you that Judaism is a Messianic faith because Judaism is the Faith of the Messiah. which is Israel. Mochiach ben Yoseph was Israel, the Ten Tribes who died for Mochiach ben David who is Judah, the other two Tribes.

God had passed final judgment on Judah, but because of His promise to David that Judah would remain forever a Lamp in Jerusalem according to I Kings 11:36, God's
final Word which was supposed to come against Judah was sent against Israel according to Isaiah 9:8. Therefore, Israel had to die for the sins of Judah. Thus, Mochiach ben Yoseph was gone so that Mochiach ben David survived.

That's the whole drama of Isaiah 53 about the two Messiahs: Messiah ben Joseph versus Messiah ben David. Today, only Messiah ben David remains as the guarantee
for the world to keep going. That's Israel, the Jewish People.

Ben

 

[Elessar]

I agree with you that Judaism is a Messianic faith because Judaism is the Faith of the Messiah. which is Israel. Mochiach ben Yoseph was Israel, the Ten Tribes who died for Mochiach ben David who is Judah, the other two Tribes.

God had passed final judgment on Judah, but because of His promise to David that Judah would remain forever a Lamp in Jerusalem according to I Kings 11:36, God's
final Word which was supposed to come against Judah was sent against Israel according to Isaiah 9:8. Therefore, Israel had to die for the sins of Judah. Thus, Mochiach ben Yoseph was gone so that Mochiach ben David survived.

That's the whole drama of Isaiah 53 about the two Messiahs: Messiah ben Joseph versus Messiah ben David. Today, only Messiah ben David remains as the guarantee
for the world to keep going. That's Israel, the Jewish People.

Ben

Ah, but your opinion, as it were, is not held by all Jews. No opinion is. It's not just a joke "Two Jews, Three Opinions." There are Jews around that celebrate Shimon Bar Kokhba (more like Bar Kozeba), Yakub Obadiah Abu Isa al-Isfahani, Yudghan al-Isfahani, David Alroy, Abraham Abulafia, Menachem Mendel Schneerson, and, the most popular, Sabbatai Zevi, as the Messiah. Every single one of these groups exists, though they are small minorities in every case. All of these groups have been allowed to make aliyah and all these groups are still considered Jewish.

 

[Ben Masada]

Ah, but your opinion, as it were, is not held by all Jews. No opinion is. It's not just a joke "Two Jews, Three Opinions." There are Jews around that celebrate Shimon Bar Kokhba (more like Bar Kozeba), Yakub Obadiah Abu Isa al-Isfahani, Yudghan al-Isfahani, David Alroy, Abraham Abulafia, Menachem Mendel Schneerson, and, the most popular, Sabbatai Zevi, as the Messiah. Every single one of these groups exists, though they are small minorities in every case. All of these groups have been allowed to make aliyah and all these groups are still considered Jewish.

You left out the most important name of all those you mentioned above: Paul of Tarsus.
He was aware of those who had proclaimed themselves Messiah before
him and failed. To avoid failing he proclaimed himself the Messiah by proxy. He
used the name of a man already 30 years dead as the Messiah to hide his real
identy which was that he himself was the Messiah of Christianity.


Paul was a genius. In order not to be caught as a charlatan, he built a Christology
about Jesus of Nazareth to explain how Jesus could be the Messiah albeit postumously.
He succeeded because his Church grew like fire on dry straw.


Now, with regards to the groups you mention above which enjoy the right of return,
when those who are "for Jesus," I mean for Paul don't, the difference is quite obvious.
They don't teach their followers the idolatry that their Messiah is God like you do.
That's enough reason to be considered anathema to Judaism.
If you guys considered Jesus just like the others, there would be no problem.


Ben