The hypocrisy of U.S. Society and Free Speech

[Epic Beard Man]

I'm sure you all have heard the recent controversy concerning 45 and the NFL/NBA players protesting the anthem (not necessarily the anthem nor the flag but the social issues that are going one). These are some serious issues that are being discussed from the salons to the barbershops, and amongst co-workers. At school especially the black student union to which I belong, we've been kind of "think tanking" some issues that concern us regarding the hypocrisy among those that decry free speech yet these same individuals do not like when professional athletes silently protest. In our discussion it was brought up that people forgot that athletes protesting social issues is not a new thing, in fact athletes like Muhammad Ali, Kareem Abdul Jabbar and others have been doing this for a long time.

But for those that voted for Trump I have to ask, how do you collectively continue to support a president who calls another grown man/men a SOB, and one who tweets all the time, golfs all the time, and inserts himself in professional athletics? Seeing racist comments in social media and having a president who is continuously representing himself as immature kid is very disheartening. A president who said "there were fine people on both sides" fine people amongst neo- Nazis who contributed to the death of an innocent protestor. I think for me not only as a citizen, but as a person of color it seems other people in the U.S. love to move goal posts. It's like one can argue freedom of speech and freedom of expression but when people of color do it, it is a problem as we see in the behavior of 45 and company. I find this to be the great hypocrisy of today and although I shouldn't be surprised, it is amazing that people on the other side of the fence who do support Trump wont even come together with other people even those among the left to critique what this man is doing.

 

[Super Universe]

I'm sure you all have heard the recent controversy concerning 45 and the NFL/NBA players protesting the anthem (not necessarily the anthem nor the flag but the social issues that are going one). These are some serious issues that are being discussed from the salons to the barbershops, and amongst co-workers. At school especially the black student union to which I belong, we've been kind of "think tanking" some issues that concern us regarding the hypocrisy among those that decry free speech yet these same individuals do not like when professional athletes silently protest. In our discussion it was brought up that people forgot that athletes protesting social issues is not a new thing, in fact athletes like Muhammad Ali, Kareem Abdul Jabbar and others have been doing this for a long time.

But for those that voted for Trump I have to ask, how do you collectively continue to support a president who calls another grown man/men a SOB, and one who tweets all the time, golfs all the time, and inserts himself in professional athletics? Seeing racist comments in social media and having a president who is continuously representing himself as immature kid is very disheartening. A president who said "there were fine people on both sides" fine people amongst neo- Nazis who contributed to the death of an innocent protestor. I think for me not only as a citizen, but as a person of color it seems other people in the U.S. love to move goal posts. It's like one can argue freedom of speech and freedom of expression but when people of color do it, it is a problem as we see in the behavior of 45 and company. I find this to be the great hypocrisy of today and although I shouldn't be surprised, it is amazing that people on the other side of the fence who do support Trump wont even come together with other people even those among the left to critique what this man is doing.

Black NFL and NBA players absolutely have the right to kneel during the national anthem. But the rest of us also have a right to disagree with it.

I did not vote for Trump but he is the President and we're stuck with him for 4 years. I don't think Hillary is the best option for the Democrats, maybe Sanders can beat Trump, I don't know, or maybe McCain or Romney may decide to run against Trump next election.

Trump is a typical billionaire, someone who people kiss up to and rarely disagree with to his face. He thinks he's smarter than everyone else when he's not and he says whatever he feels like saying without worrying about the consequences. The only reason he got elected was because American's want the economy to get going, they always put money first.

As for the Neo-Nazi's, I think Trump just likes anyone who likes him, he doesn't care who the heck they are.

Trumps approval ratings are very low so, it's not like everyone is really loving him.

And, if you really want to talk about hypocrisy, where are the protest march's for all the black on black crime? I think there was one about ten years ago in Chicago. And, if there was a website for White People Meet, or a White Entertainment Network, they would be considered racist. And if white people were given priority hiring for some jobs, that would be racist. And if CNN covered the Sherry West infant child murder case every day for a month, the same way they exploited the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case, black people would have said that CNN was racist. And, if a police officer points his weapon at me and tells me to get on the ground and I disobey and charge him, I'm going to get shot. How come black people don't believe that they should have to follow the same rules as I do?

 

[Wirey]

Black NFL and NBA players absolutely have the right to kneel during the national anthem. But the rest of us also have a right to disagree with it.

I did not vote for Trump but he is the President and we're stuck with him for 4 years. I don't think Hillary is the best option for the Democrats, maybe Sanders can beat Trump, I don't know, or maybe McCain or Romney may decide to run against Trump next election.

Trump is a typical billionaire, someone who people kiss up to and rarely disagree with to his face. He thinks he's smarter than everyone else when he's not and he says whatever he feels like saying without worrying about the consequences. The only reason he got elected was because American's want the economy to get going, they always put money first.

As for the Neo-Nazi's, I think Trump just likes anyone who likes him, he doesn't care who the heck they are.

Trumps approval ratings are very low so, it's not like everyone is really loving him.

And, if you really want to talk about hypocrisy, where are the protest march's for all the black on black crime? I think there was one about ten years ago in Chicago. And, if there was a website for White People Meet, or a White Entertainment Network, they would be considered racist. And if white people were given priority hiring for some jobs, that would be racist. And if CNN covered the Sherry West infant child murder case every day for a month, the same way they exploited the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case, black people would have said that CNN was racist. And, if a police officer points his weapon at me and tells me to get on the ground and I disobey and charge him, I'm going to get shot. How come black people don't believe that they should have to follow the same rules as I do?

Those last two sentences. What if the cop is pointing a gun at you for something you are, like your skin colour, and didn't care if you were guilty or innocent, and had a rep for executing people just like you. Think fight or flight might kick in? Black people get murdered for being black. Compared to that, what's taking a knee?

 

[Twilight Hue]

I'm sure you all have heard the recent controversy concerning 45 and the NFL/NBA players protesting the anthem (not necessarily the anthem nor the flag but the social issues that are going one). These are some serious issues that are being discussed from the salons to the barbershops, and amongst co-workers. At school especially the black student union to which I belong, we've been kind of "think tanking" some issues that concern us regarding the hypocrisy among those that decry free speech yet these same individuals do not like when professional athletes silently protest. In our discussion it was brought up that people forgot that athletes protesting social issues is not a new thing, in fact athletes like Muhammad Ali, Kareem Abdul Jabbar and others have been doing this for a long time.

But for those that voted for Trump I have to ask, how do you collectively continue to support a president who calls another grown man/men a SOB, and one who tweets all the time, golfs all the time, and inserts himself in professional athletics? Seeing racist comments in social media and having a president who is continuously representing himself as immature kid is very disheartening. A president who said "there were fine people on both sides" fine people amongst neo- Nazis who contributed to the death of an innocent protestor. I think for me not only as a citizen, but as a person of color it seems other people in the U.S. love to move goal posts. It's like one can argue freedom of speech and freedom of expression but when people of color do it, it is a problem as we see in the behavior of 45 and company. I find this to be the great hypocrisy of today and although I shouldn't be surprised, it is amazing that people on the other side of the fence who do support Trump wont even come together with other people even those among the left to critique what this man is doing.

I think the best course of action is to keep pressing the issues and educating people on what's going on. I think free speech is essential for those that agree and disagree on any points.

But I think there's ways to go about it and ways that probably will send mixed signals and wrong messages.

There's been a lot of progression with many people in this country involving many races and ethnicities. I think reflecting on History how these things come about, it's always wise to maintain good examples and persistence.

"Endeavor to persevere", is one of my favorite quotes.

 

[Kemosloby]

I support silence, although we are not guaranteed silence or the freedom of it.

 

[shunyadragon]

Even in golf, Donald Trump cheats and declares mulligans to achieve par every hole.

 

[Jainarayan]

Black NFL and NBA players absolutely have the right to kneel during the national anthem.

El wrong-o...

The specific rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the NFL League Rulebook. It states:

“The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

“During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition...

...It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.”

Booyah!!!

 

[Super Universe]

Those last two sentences. What if the cop is pointing a gun at you for something you are, like your skin colour, and didn't care if you were guilty or innocent, and had a rep for executing people just like you. Think fight or flight might kick in? Black people get murdered for being black. Compared to that, what's taking a knee?

So, after committing strong arm robbery and a police officer, who by the way doesn't even know you just committed the robbery, asks you to walk on the sidewalk instead of in the street, it makes sense to attack the officer and try to get his weapon and then charge him when he has the weapon pointed at you?

I would get on the ground. Michael Brown didn't know the officer's reputation and he certainly was not shot in the back.

If you assume that all police officers are going to shoot you anyway because you are black then you are in grave danger here and you should leave the country.

There are people risking drowning at sea trying to get out of Syria because they believe their lives are in danger there. The truth is you're looking for an excuse, the USA is not fair. I would agree with you on that. This country is not fair at all, I don't know who told you it was, but, it's not completely unfair for just black people. The poor get screwed over by the rich, those with handicaps and learning disabilities don't get a fair treatment, and other groups don't get fair treatment either like the homosexuals, muslims, hindu's, Hmong, mexican-americans and on and on and on.

Black people get murdered for being black. They do, 90% of the time it's other black people who are doing it but the only time you see a protest is the rare times when a black person (EDIT: That should be white police officer) is involved and the black community never blames the black person for doing something wrong. Is there going to be a protest for black on white crime? Nope, because that would be racist.

 

[Super Universe]

El wrong-o...

The specific rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the NFL League Rulebook. It states:

“The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

“During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition...

...It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.”

Booyah!!!

Not sure if you are a US citizen or not so you might not be aware of the way things work here. US citizens have free speech.

The NFL or a city or a county or state can pass whatever rule or law they want and people have a right to disagree with that rule and violate it if they feel it infringes on their right to free speech. If a player gets fined for not standing for the national anthem there would immediately be a court case that would go to the courts and that rule would be found to be a violation of free speech.

As for the player having to be on the field for the national anthem, I think the league would win that case unless the player was injured or some other reasonable reason. Being forced to be on the field for the national anthem is not violating your rights to free speech.

 

[Wirey]

So, after committing strong arm robbery and a police officer, who by the way doesn't even know you just committed the robbery, asks you to walk on the sidewalk instead of in the street, it makes sense to attack the officer and try to get his weapon and then charge him when he has the weapon pointed at you?

I would get on the ground. Michael Brown didn't know the officer's reputation and he certainly was not shot in the back.

If you assume that all police officers are going to shoot you anyway because you are black then you are in grave danger here and you should leave the country.

There are people risking drowning at sea trying to get out of Syria because they believe their lives are in danger there. The truth is you're looking for an excuse, the USA is not fair. I would agree with you on that. This country is not fair at all, I don't know who told you it was, but, it's not completely unfair for just black people. The poor get screwed over by the rich, those with handicaps and learning disabilities don't get a fair treatment, and other groups don't get fair treatment either like the homosexuals, muslims, hindu's, Hmong, mexican-americans and on and on and on.

Black people get murdered for being black. They do, 90% of the time it's other black people who are doing it but the only time you see a protest is the rare times when a black person is involved and the black community never blames the black person for doing something wrong. Is there going to be a protest for black on white crime? Nope, because that would be racist.

No, no, no criminal. The protest is about innocent people being murdered. No one is defending criminals. So, with that in mind:

Those last two sentences. What if the cop is pointing a gun at you for something you are, like your skin colour, and didn't care if you were guilty or innocent, and had a rep for executing people just like you. Think fight or flight might kick in? Black people get murdered for being black. Compared to that, what's taking a knee?

 

[sun rise]

In an age when the right-wing terrorists show up with as large guns as are legal, carrying enough ammo to fight a small war and celebrating murdering protestors, a simple symbolic act is the least reasonable respond, I salute and applaud those taking a stand for American ideals and what America can and should become.

 

[Father Heathen]

El wrong-o...

The specific rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the NFL League Rulebook. It states:

“The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

“During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition...

...It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.”

Booyah!!!

Given that the NFL itself has stated that it sides with the players, they could easily amend their own dated rules.

Cuh-ching bada-bing!?

The best way to honor the flag is to uphold the values that it stands for rather than going through the motions with weird, quasi-religious rituals.

 

[Jainarayan]

Given that the NFL itself has stated that it sides with the players, they could easily amend their own dated rules.

Cuh-ching bada-bing!?

The best way to honor the flag is to uphold the values that it stands for rather than going through the motions with weird, quasi-religious rituals.

They could but they haven't. It didn't just start today or this month.

 

[Jainarayan]

Not sure if you are a US citizen or not so you might not be aware of the way things work here. US citizens have free speech.

The NFL or a city or a county or state can pass whatever rule or law they want and people have a right to disagree with that rule and violate it if they feel it infringes on their right to free speech. If a player gets fined for not standing for the national anthem there would immediately be a court case that would go to the courts and that rule would be found to be a violation of free speech.

As for the player having to be on the field for the national anthem, I think the league would win that case unless the player was injured or some other reasonable reason. Being forced to be on the field for the national anthem is not violating your rights to free speech.

Yes, I was born in the US. Everything you said is so wrong there is no word for how wrong it is. I think you should review SCOTUS cases that have already limited free speech in the workplace.

 

[Father Heathen]

They could but they haven't. It didn't just start today or this month.

Regardless, The NFL has stated that they'll side with the players over Trump, so bumpkins can continue to belch, boo, and bellow from the bleachers. Like Trump said, those offended by the protests shouldn't attend the game. They can stay home and watch NASCAR or WWE instead.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Black NFL and NBA players absolutely have the right to kneel during the national anthem. But the rest of us also have a right to disagree with it.

I did not vote for Trump but he is the President and we're stuck with him for 4 years. I don't think Hillary is the best option for the Democrats, maybe Sanders can beat Trump, I don't know, or maybe McCain or Romney may decide to run against Trump next election.

Trump is a typical billionaire, someone who people kiss up to and rarely disagree with to his face. He thinks he's smarter than everyone else when he's not and he says whatever he feels like saying without worrying about the consequences. The only reason he got elected was because American's want the economy to get going, they always put money first.

As for the Neo-Nazi's, I think Trump just likes anyone who likes him, he doesn't care who the heck they are.

Trumps approval ratings are very low so, it's not like everyone is really loving him.

And, if you really want to talk about hypocrisy, where are the protest march's for all the black on black crime? I think there was one about ten years ago in Chicago. And, if there was a website for White People Meet, or a White Entertainment Network, they would be considered racist. And if white people were given priority hiring for some jobs, that would be racist. And if CNN covered the Sherry West infant child murder case every day for a month, the same way they exploited the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case, black people would have said that CNN was racist. And, if a police officer points his weapon at me and tells me to get on the ground and I disobey and charge him, I'm going to get shot. How come black people don't believe that they should have to follow the same rules as I do?

"Where are the protests for black on black crime?"

I tend to run into this (the above quoted) all the time and I usually count it as something of a deflection tactic to take away from the social issues brought up by people of color. I live in the inner city and there are plenty ex-gang members that have organizations to get kids out of the streets and away from gang violence and place them in opportunities of positivity. You see, there is no such thing as "black on black crime" crime in the inner cities is not about race, people tend to be violent with members of the same ethnic group because they live in close proximity to each other. The same can be said for whites (which statistically is shown to commit more violent crimes but hey I guess whites aren't outraged about that) and the same can be said about latinos etc. So again there is no black on black crime it is just crime between members of the same demographic, but if you want evidence for protest see the following:

Hundreds of People Marched For Peace In Compton This Weekend, But You Probably Didn’t Hear About It On the News

White Entertainment Network? Are you serious? See this is the issue when a person of color brings of social issues that effects him/her, people instead of reading to understand, you read to respond. Let me answer thi which I tend to do over and over. BET (which is owned by a white guy btw) exist because in the past there were few media shows that represented people of color, most specifically African-Americans. This is why HBCU's (Historially Black Colleges and Universities) exist because blacks couldn't get an education at all white institutions.

"And if white people were given priority hiring for some jobs, that would be racist"

Um, whites have had this opportunity since the 13 colonies! Because of centuries of discrimination the evolution from that resulted in civil rights laws and affirmative action (which white women are the sole beneficiaries of that now). Jesus man you are getting off topic!

"And, if a police officer points his weapon at me and tells me to get on the ground and I disobey and charge him, I'm going to get shot. How come black people don't believe that they should have to follow the same rules as I do?"

You are doing a lot of ignorant assumptions. Philando Castille was in his car and obeyed the officers command and informed the officer he was a CCW holder and he still died no charging, no nothing. The cop fired several shots with a little child in the car, but if you don't think there are racial discrepancies watch the following:

 

[Super Universe]

No, no, no criminal. The protest is about innocent people being murdered. No one is defending criminals. So, with that in mind:

Those last two sentences. What if the cop is pointing a gun at you for something you are, like your skin colour, and didn't care if you were guilty or innocent, and had a rep for executing people just like you. Think fight or flight might kick in? Black people get murdered for being black. Compared to that, what's taking a knee?

I read that Kaepernick started the protest because of unfair treatment of African American's. Not black on black crime.

No one is defending criminals? Michael Brown committed armed robbery, then assault on a police officer, then disobeying an officer. Those are crimes. He didn't deserve to be shot for those crimes but when he charged the officer there was no other choice. I'm not a police officer but I would have shot the guy too. He was not a small dude, he was going to win any fight and get the gun. There is no way an officer can allow someone to take their weapon.

The protests in the streets of Ferguson were defending a criminal because he was shot by a white police officer. The white police officer has a right to defend himself.

If you want others to side with you then you have to make reasonable decisions. You can't fight with the police and you have to follow police orders just like I do.

There was a case recently where a white officer arrested a white nurse because she wouldn't take a blood sample from an unconscious criminal. The white people didn't protest in the streets. We waited for justice to work and it did.

Now, don't get me wrong, some of the things some of these police officers are doing is absolutely wrong and illegal. The officer in North Carolina (I think it was NC) shot that guy in the back when he was running away, that's murder and he was charged with murder. Those cops in New York who took down that guy and he was saying "I can't breathe", that, in my opinion, was manslaughter.

The system is not perfect, no country has a perfect system, but you have to follow the same rules that I have to follow. I have to get on the ground when an officer points his gun at me and gives me an order or I will get shot and the white people will blame me, not the officer, even if I have committed no crime.

What if a cop is pointing a gun at me because of my skin color? And you know that at the time how? Maybe the reason blacks think that is because in the poor areas they are conditioned to think that? If you teach that to your children then this stuff that is going on is never going to end.

Players can take a knee all they want. I disagree with it but so what, they have that right. Now, I do wonder why they stay here in this country if they really feel that things are that unfair. Why doesn't Kaepernick take his millions and move to Liberia where he can live like a king and won't have to face any white unfairness?

I grew up in a very poor area, my mother and father divorced when I was 4 years old. She was an alcoholic and very abusive and she controlled the food. The doctors constantly warned her that I was malnourished but she would not put food in the refrigerator until one of my brothers separated from his wife (that saved my life) and came home to live with us.

My dad was worse than my mom because he was a Jehovah's Witness. The area I lived in was 80% black, every bicycle I ever had was stolen from me, and as I was being starved at home the black kids would steal my lunch money on the way to school. I would tell my mom that I got my lunch money stolen and that I needed an extra $2 to pay the cafeteria back and she would yell at me and accuse me of lying.

The black kids that I went to school with for years and years didn't call me by my name, they called me "white boy". I had one black kid friend for a while but whenever I went over to his house his mom would never talk to me and she would just give me this wicked stare. Our house was broken into and robbed 8 times, we never got anything back.

Those black kids I grew up with were taught that all white people are racist and that black people can't be racist or prejudice and that no matter what white people would never let them succeed so they could do whatever they wanted to get ahead. They would always cheat at whatever they could and cut in line and gang up in fights against white guys. I could go on and on, I'm not even telling you half of it.

And you want to complain about hypocrisy?

 

[columbus]

Like Trump said, those offended by the protests shouldn't attend the game.

OMG
You are making me agree with Trump on a human rights issue.
I shall now go commit ritual suicide. Do I slice my guts open from right to left or left to right?
Tom

 

[Valjean]

People are more interested in symbols than they are in substance. They're unprincipled. They're not concerned with the freedom of conscience or political freedom the flag symbolizes -- many would eagerly discard these to preserve the tribal solidarity they really value.
We see this same thing when radical islamists freak out over disrespect to the Quran or Prophet.

Booyah!!!

Translation: "Sieg Heil!"

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I think the best course of action is to keep pressing the issues and educating people on what's going on. I think free speech is essential for those that agree and disagree on any points.

But I think there's ways to go about it and ways that probably will send mixed signals and wrong messages.

There's been a lot of progression with many people in this country involving many races and ethnicities. I think reflecting on History how these things come about, it's always wise to maintain good examples and persistence.

"Endeavor to persevere", is one of my favorite quotes.

But the problem with the dialogue of free speech and in this case concerning professional athletes, is society especially Trump is trying to tell them to not express their right to speech, to be the "good ole boys and play catch." Trump called a bunch of grown men SOB's. this was unprofessional and unpresidential.