The hypocrisy of U.S. Society and Free Speech

[Super Universe]

You cannot force players to stand for the pledge and if they're protesting and you infringe that, its a lawsuit. Point is Trump needs to focus on things that are bigger than taking knees.

I agree. The NFL is not going to fine any player for not standing during the anthem because they will lose in court.

As for Trump, he doesn't know how to be President. He only knows extreme privilege and has an extreme sense of superiority.

American's voted for him only because they think he will get the economy going. They might be right. The stock market has gone up 4,000 points since November.

 

[Super Universe]

Apparently your intent here is to not have dialogue but to argue back and forth with me regarding the ills that people of color go through with respect to law enforcement Trump's issues of our protest etc and in that, this is my last post to you because quite frankly what I say has fallen on deaf ears considering I posted an 8:50 minute video for you to watch. In order to have an understanding one must be willing to listen and trade ideas, that is the epitome of having a conversation. You know, I'm not going to comment on the anecdotes you've presented here because all that is going to do is trade stories for stories and we'll get nowhere. This thread isn't about black on white or white on black, but to talk about the issues I personally have with Trump and the societal expectation placed upon players that they don't have a right to speech, yet those that argue about free speech vehemently fall silent to the reasons behind taking a knee but rather replace the true reason with the flag and soldiers which is incorrect. All you're doing is sharing stories which is fine, but crime is everywhere, its not a black thing its not a white thing its a poverty thing. Anyway I wont waste my fingers on you for the rest of this thread because you're not comprehending the mode of discussion here.

My intent was to give you the other side of the story. But, I'm sure I'm the only white person ever to have been mistreated by black people.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

My intent was to give you the other side of the story. But, I'm sure I'm the only white person ever to have been mistreated by black people.

This thread wasn't even about that......Funny when I interject my story I'm being told "but you're playing the race card" I don't deny your misfortune, but this isn't a pissing contest. Besides you were mistreated by those people. Like Saladin in the movie Kingdom of Heaven

"I am not those men."

 

[Jainarayan]

El wrong-o...

The specific rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the NFL League Rulebook. It states:

“The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

“During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition...

...It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.”

Booyah!!!

Snopes says this rule doesn't exist. Of course this doesn't negate the fact that the players are doing nothing but grandstanding. Given all their righteous protesting what are they actually doing to right these social wrongs?

FACT CHECK: Are NFL Players Required to Stand on the Field During the National Anthem?

 

[Super Universe]

This thread wasn't even about that......Funny when I interject my story I'm being told "but you're playing the race card" I don't deny your misfortune, but this isn't a pissing contest. Besides you were mistreated by those people. Like Saladin in the movie Kingdom of Heaven

"I am not those men."

This thread wasn't about white people being mistreated by black people? I know it wasn't. It's supposed to be a thread about hypocritical white people while ignoring any hypocrisy in the black community.

You're being told you're playing the race card? It's the best excuse in the world. It might just get you another 50 years of white appeasement and ransom.

You don't deny my misfortune? And I have so many more stories to tell.

Saladin said "I am not those men." Nope, maybe you aren't, but if black people can blame white people for something that other white people did many years ago then what I'm doing is entirely fair.

 

[Valjean]

He has posted them twice.
And Kaepernick agreed to follow them before he got his first paycheck
Tom

“During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition...

...It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.”

Read carefully.

Why do we politicize sporting events with chauvinistic displays, anyway? Who else does that?
It seems to me we're just asking for trouble, creating a perfect platform for any sort of political demonstration.

 

[Valjean]

American's voted for him only because they think he will get the economy going. They might be right. The stock market has gone up 4,000 points since November.

Bubbles are always biggest just before they burst.

 

[Super Universe]

Bubbles are always biggest just before they burst.

Could be.

Even if it is a giant bubble anyone who has been in for the last year and sold recently has made quite a bit of money.

 

[Sunstone]

 

[Epic Beard Man]

This thread wasn't about white people being mistreated by black people? I know it wasn't. It's supposed to be a thread about hypocritical white people while ignoring any hypocrisy in the black community.

You're being told you're playing the race card? It's the best excuse in the world. It might just get you another 50 years of white appeasement and ransom.

You don't deny my misfortune? And I have so many more stories to tell.

Saladin said "I am not those men." Nope, maybe you aren't, but if black people can blame white people for something that other white people did many years ago then what I'm doing is entirely fair.

"This thread wasn't about white people being mistreated by black people? I know it wasn't. It's supposed to be a thread about hypocritical white people while ignoring any hypocrisy in the black community. Nope, maybe you aren't, but if black people can blame white people for something that other white people did many years ago then what I'm doing is entirely fair."

I'm officially done with our discussion as you are going way off topic.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I just don't understand why Trump and those like him use the kneeling as an affront towards soldiers and the flag. I mean, it has been repeated over and over his intentions yet people still are demonstrating cognitive dissonance.

 

[Super Universe]

Okay, I'll get back on topic.

"White people bad! White people bad! White people bad!"

Did you know that Africans once had white people as slaves? I bet you didn't know that.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Apparently @Super Universe has his own agenda in this discussion....

Look, to put things clear and in their perspective the primary existence of this thread is to highlight so social hypocritical elements that exist in the United States. I've seen on social media lately, hardcore free speech advocates that proclaim that all speech ought to not be limited nor filtered. These same individuals love to quote the constitution and 1st and 2nd amendments etc. But what I find peculiar in all this is that when professional athletes bring to light social injustices that are of concern in their respective communities, these same individuals (the free speech advocates) who attend these ball games are now proclaiming that any protest within the sphere of a sporting event ought to be left out. It seems from inside looking out, things concerning the inner city in which people of color are affected by are deflected with remarks such as "what about black on black crime?" And the like. People often forget that small grassroots organizations such as homeboy incorporated which are formed by ex-gang members are in the inner cities trying to get guys off the street. However most of these small organizations that do work in the "hoods" often don't get national recognition because certain media outlets want to maintain the image of black people focusing on killing black people. But so-called "black on black crime" is not the real issue I'm discussing, but sure, crime within a specific demographic is serious, but as I mentioned before, people of the same demographic that commit violent acts to members of the same demographic do so because they live within proximity 5to each other. So-called "white on white crime" is an issue as well and statistically more whites are committing more violent acts amongst themselves. But hey forget the non-sequitors here this is not the mode of the thread.

The mode of this thread is to highlight the inconsistencies of what is considered important as free speech and what is shunned away as unimportant. More importantly is we have an immature president who has the nerve to call men who are silently protesting a "son of a b*tch." Then goes on twitter rants, I mean who does that? This is unbecoming of a president. Instead of standing with these players for their reasons he has convinced his acolytes that their cause is against the country and our service men and women which is not. That to me is hypocritical especially considering his whiny behavior when society has critiqued him.

 

[Sunstone]

Personally, it doesn't make me proud to be an American to see us rally around the flag and our wars -- any group of fools of any country in the world can do that. It makes me proud to be an American when Americans peacefully protest injustices. Most fools would never think of doing that.

 

[Wirey]

I read that Kaepernick started the protest because of unfair treatment of African American's. Not black on black crime.



And you want to complain about hypocrisy?

I said police shooting, and you try to make it black on black crime. What was your question about hypocrisy? One more time!

Those last two sentences. What if the cop is pointing a gun at you for something you are, like your skin colour, and didn't care if you were guilty or innocent, and had a rep for executing people just like you. Think fight or flight might kick in? Black people get murdered for being black. Compared to that, what's taking a knee?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

This video is gold

 

[Super Universe]

What white people are upset about is that black people don't respect this country because of slavery and because there are still some racist white people in the country all the while ignoring the opportunities they have.

This thread is about hypocrisy, well, blacks once had white people as slaves. "The Jews were slaves in Egypt." And the black people that I grew up with were the most racist people I'ver ever met and I've been to 14 countries and 40 US states. They thought being racist against white people was not racism.

As for free speech, people think it means you can say whatever you want whenever you want. That is not the case. It's not legal to stand on a street corner and shout obscenities. It's not legal to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater when there is no fire. It's not legal to threaten the President.

Every society has rules on what you can say. Even tribes have rules, if you say something bad about the chief you might be expelled from the tribe

 

[Valjean]

This video is gold

"I've great respect for men and women who have fought for this country....
they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice..."

Horsefeathers! They do nothing of the sort. They fight for the power elite, the bankers and industrialists of the military-industrial complex. They fight to secure foreign markets; to exploit others abroad and against freedom, liberty and justice for "the people" at home.

"I've seen circumstances where men and women who have been in the military have come back and been treated unjustly by the country they fought for..."

And this surprises you? They've been fighting for the plutocrats, not for human rights. They've been fighting to preserve the status quo; for stratification and income inequality.

The guy's drunk the Cool Aid. He's been duped.

 

[Jainarayan]

when Americans peacefully protest injustices.

But what are these guys doing other than grandstanding? That's not a protest if it has no positive outcome. What are they doing to correct these "social injustices" they are protesting? Tebow got ragged on and ripped apart for his displays of his faith, but he's also involved in a number of charities, especially for kids. That looks to me like he's putting his ideals as a Christian into practice. What has Kaepernick done? And I'm going to trot out the old "then why are you still in this country?" The answer is if you're not part of the solution (which the players are not) then you're part of the problem. They're doing nothing to correct the ills they are "protesting".

 

[Valjean]

But what are these guys doing other than grandstanding? That's not a protest if it has no positive outcome. What are they doing to correct these "social injustices" they are protesting? Tebow got ragged on and ripped apart for his displays of his faith, but he's also involved in a number of charities, especially for kids. That looks to me like he's putting his ideals as a Christian into practice. What has Kaepernick done? And I'm going to trot out the old "then why are you still in this country?" The answer is if you're not part of the solution (which the players are not) then you're part of the problem. They're doing nothing to correct the ills they are "protesting".

But it has had a positive outcome. Just look at the debate it's started in this forum alone.