The hypocrisy of U.S. Society and Free Speech

[Jainarayan]

You're right. I was way out of line. My apologies and I'll make an effort not to commit the same mistake twice. I've edited my post.

No worries mate. Big Kumbaya moment for everyone.

 

[leibowde84]

Black NFL and NBA players absolutely have the right to kneel during the national anthem. But the rest of us also have a right to disagree with it.

I did not vote for Trump but he is the President and we're stuck with him for 4 years. I don't think Hillary is the best option for the Democrats, maybe Sanders can beat Trump, I don't know, or maybe McCain or Romney may decide to run against Trump next election.

Trump is a typical billionaire, someone who people kiss up to and rarely disagree with to his face. He thinks he's smarter than everyone else when he's not and he says whatever he feels like saying without worrying about the consequences. The only reason he got elected was because American's want the economy to get going, they always put money first.

As for the Neo-Nazi's, I think Trump just likes anyone who likes him, he doesn't care who the heck they are.

Trumps approval ratings are very low so, it's not like everyone is really loving him.

This I agree with. Good points here.

And, if you really want to talk about hypocrisy, where are the protest march's for all the black on black crime? I think there was one about ten years ago in Chicago. And, if there was a website for White People Meet, or a White Entertainment Network, they would be considered racist. And if white people were given priority hiring for some jobs, that would be racist. And if CNN covered the Sherry West infant child murder case every day for a month, the same way they exploited the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case, black people would have said that CNN was racist. And, if a police officer points his weapon at me and tells me to get on the ground and I disobey and charge him, I'm going to get shot. How come black people don't believe that they should have to follow the same rules as I do?

This is unfair, though. Minorities (and others) are free to protest police brutality without necessarily protesting black-on-black violence. The former can have merit without the later. And, just because they don't organize as many protests in no way means that they don't consider black-on-black violence a real issue.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

How about a show of hands.
How many of the people who think Kaepernick's right to free speech are being infringed were similarly outraged when BLM shut down a Bernie Sanders rally or a gay pride parade in Toronto?
Tom

What's going on now has nothing to do with BLM...

 

[columbus]

What's going on now has nothing to do with BLM...

Not a very good dodge.
Tom

 

[Epic Beard Man]

That's not a positive outcome. What is anyone on this forum going to do to change things? Talk is cheap. What is it doing to change the perceived problems? Has it started "sensitivity" training for police officers and depts. who are allegedly unsympathetic towards minorities, specifically African Americans? Has it done anything to curb black-on-black or white-on-black or black-on-white or ... violence? I don't see it.

I think I've made it clear that there is no such thing as black on black crime......Did you miss that explanation?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Not a very good dodge.
Tom

Not dodging I'm asking a question...again what does thread or discussion have to do with BLM?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

You could respond by agreeing that blacks do think that racism against white people is accepted in the black community.

You could agree that African's once had white slaves in Egypt about 3,500 years ago.

You could agree that almost all of the problems that black people face are caused by other black people.

You could agree that many blacks use slavery as an excuse.

You could agree that black people have about the same opportunities that white people have.

I have already agreed with you that some white police officers have committed crimes against blacks and should be punished. I have also agreed that there is still some white racism in the US.

You could agree that you have racial prejudices....

 

[Jainarayan]

I think I've made it clear that there is no such thing as black on black crime......Did you miss that explanation?

I hope that's sarcasm.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I hope that's sarcasm.

"There’s no such thing as “black-on-black” crime. Yes, from 1976 to 2005, 94 percent of black victims were killed by black offenders, but that racial exclusivity was also true for white victims of violent crime—86 percent were killed by white offenders. . . .


What [Breitbart writer Ben] Shapiro and others miss about crime, in general, is that it’s driven by opportunism and proximity; If African-Americans are more likely to be robbed, or injured, or killed by other African-Americans, it’s because they tend to live in the same neighborhoods as each other. Residential statistics bear this out (PDF); blacks are still more likely to live near each other or other minority groups than they are to whites. And of course, the reverse holds as well—whites are much more likely to live near other whites than they are to minorities and African-Americans in particular."

I believe I echoed this several posts back...I highly suggest you read the rest of the article and btw this is not sarcasm but truth.

Read more at: 'There's No Such Thing as Black-on-Black Crime'

 

[Jainarayan]

"There’s no such thing as “black-on-black” crime. Yes, from 1976 to 2005, 94 percent of black victims were killed by black offenders, but that racial exclusivity was also true for white victims of violent crime—86 percent were killed by white offenders. . . .


What [Breitbart writer Ben] Shapiro and others miss about crime, in general, is that it’s driven by opportunism and proximity; If African-Americans are more likely to be robbed, or injured, or killed by other African-Americans, it’s because they tend to live in the same neighborhoods as each other. Residential statistics bear this out (PDF); blacks are still more likely to live near each other or other minority groups than they are to whites. And of course, the reverse holds as well—whites are much more likely to live near other whites than they are to minorities and African-Americans in particular."

I believe I echoed this several posts back...I highly suggest you read the rest of the article and btw this is not sarcasm but truth.

Read more at: 'There's No Such Thing as Black-on-Black Crime'

I'll never get the brain cells back I lost reading that. I've never seen anything so twisted, mangled, squeezed, and stretched, it makes Silly-Putty look like concrete

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I'll never get the brain cells back I lost reading that. I've never seen anything so twisted, mangled, squeezed, and stretched, it makes Silly-Putty look like concrete

It just doesn't fit your narrative. As the article implies that there I no racial component to crime. Blacks do not target others blacks because they're black, they target members of the same demographic because they live near each other. What part of that do you not get?

 

[Poisonshady313]

Free speech only applies to government involvement?

Yes. The bill of rights is an enumeration of ways to prevent the government from encroaching on our rights.

Free speech does not give you the legal right to say racist things or overtly sexual things in the workplace.

Actually it does. You cannot be arrested for saying racist things in the workplace. You can be disciplined by your employer, up to and including termination... but you can't be sent to jail because of it.

Your idea of free speech is that you can or should be able to say anything any time you want.

I have said nothing that could lead you to that conclusion.

That's not legal free speech. Legal free speech just means that there is a forum available that you can use to disagree, not that you can disagree whenever and where ever you want.

Actually, you can disagree whenever and wherever you want. That doesn't mean that you're free from consequences. If you say something and the company you work for doesn't like it, they may rightfully terminate you for it... but that doesn't mean they're stifling your free speech. You're free to say it, and they're free to fire you. Free speech isn't an "issue", however, until the government gets involved.

 

[leibowde84]

Even in golf, Donald Trump cheats and declares mulligans to achieve par every hole.

This is one of the most pathetic things I've heard about Trump. I know a guy who played with him once, and he noticed Trump was cheating. Trump responded, "I cheat in business and I cheat on my wives. Why wouldn't I cheat at golf?" He said it as if it were a joke ... which makes it even worse.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I encourage everyone to watch this video:

I'm a progressive liberal and that conservative Michael @9:30 gets it point blank this in a nutshell is what many African-Americans are trying to convey to the majority of Caucasian-Americans.

 

[Phil25]

Yeah those players have the right to kneel during the national anthem. They also have the right to burn the flag if they wanted to(and I feel they would have no problem doing so). The First Amendment protects that.
But I also have the right to disagree with those f*ckers actions.

 

[Valjean]

Yeah those players have the right to kneel during the national anthem. They also have the right to burn the flag if they wanted to(and I feel they would have no problem doing so). The First Amendment protects that.
But I also have the right to disagree with those f*ckers actions.

Why do you feel they would be comfortable burning the flag? They've said themselves their issue is with police brutality and racism, not national politics.
What, exactly, do you disagree with?

 

[Phil25]

Why do you feel they would be comfortable burning the flag? They've said themselves their issue is with police brutality and racism, not national politics.
What, exactly, do you disagree with?

If they can disrespect the national anthem to make a point, is it a stretch to burn/defile the flag to make a point?

 

[Poisonshady313]

Why do you feel they would be comfortable burning the flag? They've said themselves their issue is with police brutality and racism, not national politics.
What, exactly, do you disagree with?

There are two separate issues.
1. What he did.
2. Why he did it.

The casual observer who watches the game but doesn't bother to stick around for Kaepernick's interview doesn't know why he kneeled during the anthem. His head isn't filled with a sense of indignation about racism and police brutality. Because without the explanation of "why", all he is left with is what he knows, which is "that guy disrespected the flag and the anthem."

Whatever you may feel about why he did it doesn't change what he did.

 

[Valjean]

How is kneeling disrespect? Kneeling is generally considered a stronger demonstration of respect and submission than standing with a hand over your heart. But I understand their sentiments.

If the kneelers had the courage of their convictions they would turn their backs to the field, or sit it out. Maybe they just don't have the cojones to take a bold stand. Do they lack the courage of their convictions? Their little gesture strikes me as tentative, almost pusillanimous.

As for disrespecting the national anthem, why should it be respected?
First, isn't it what the flag symbolizes that should be respected, rather than the symbol itself?
2nd, if the symbol has come to represent injustice, isn't disrespecting it the right and proper thing to do?

 

[Poisonshady313]

How is kneeling disrespect?

As for disrespecting the national anthem, why should it be respected?
First, isn't it what the flag symbolizes that should be respected, rather than the symbol itself?

Flag code is fairly clear on this issue.

2nd, if the symbol has come to represent injustice, isn't disrespecting it the right and proper thing to do?

If. Does the flag represent injustice? Or does it represent the essence of what brings us all together to overcome injustice? A lot has happened in 241 years... why should anyone think the flag represents only the worst of this nation's history?