The hypocrisy of U.S. Society and Free Speech

[Valjean]

Flag code is fairly clear on this issue.

I doubt if more than a handful in the stadium have ever read the flag code, nor do I see many players standing with their right hands over their hearts.

Does the flag represent injustice? Or does it represent the essence of what brings us all together to overcome injustice? A lot has happened in 241 years... why should anyone think the flag represents only the worst of this nation's history?

In one sense it represents the idealistic humanism of the founding fathers, on the other, it represents whatever point of view the displayer fancies.
The kneelers, I think, are objecting to the flag's being displayed to represent the current state of justice in the US.

 

[Poisonshady313]

I doubt if more than a handful in the stadium have ever read the flag code,

That doesn't change the fact that proper flag etiquette is written into the US code, and that failure to observe this is disrespectful.

nor do I see many players standing with their right hands over their hearts.

They are also failing to respect the flag and the anthem.

In one sense it represents the idealistic humanism of the founding fathers, on the other, it represents whatever point of view the displayer fancies.
The kneelers, I think, are objecting to the flag's being displayed to represent the current state of justice in the US.

Do you figure the displayers of the flag at the football game insist that "this flag represents the current state of justice in the US"?

Or do you figure they're just upholding a long tradition of respecting the flag because the game is one of America's pastimes.

 

[4consideration]

I'd like to address an assumption I've seen in this thread.

It seems there has been some discussion about the man who was the patient of the nurse that refused to draw blood without a warrant, or patient consent, and was subsequently arrested.

It may seem off topic, but if one considers how just about everyone seemed to assume the man was a criminal just because police were trying to get his blood, I think it's a commentary on the larger issue at hand, which is part of this thread.

To my knowledge there was never any indication, or suspicion, that the unconscious man in the hospital in this situation did anything wrong, and the assumption he was a "criminal" seems unwarranted -- and fabricated. At least none of the news stories I saw indicated he was suspected of anything, and only indicated that he was involved in a crash in which there was a fatality.

The man the nurse refused to take blood from died recently. The police were not looking for his blood because of any evidence of sort of "criminal" or even dangerous behavior. He was a trucker involved in an automobile accident, in which a person running from the police crossed the center line and hit him head on, causing an explosion -- in which he was badly burned.

The person that hit him and caused the explosion was killed immediately.

The reason the police were insisting on getting his blood is that it is standard procedure to take all drivers blood when an accident involves a fatality.

I just wanted to correct the record from what I saw as labeling a victim as a "criminal".

Patient at center of Utah nurse's dramatic arrest video dies

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I'd like to address an assumption I've seen in this thread.

It seems there has been some discussion about the man who was the patient of the nurse that refused to draw blood without a warrant, or patient consent, and was subsequently arrested.

It may seem off topic, but if one considers how just about everyone seemed to assume the man was a criminal just because police were trying to get his blood, I think it's a commentary on the larger issue at hand, which is part of this thread.

To my knowledge there was never any indication, or suspicion, that the unconscious man in the hospital in this situation did anything wrong, and the assumption he was a "criminal" seems unwarranted -- and fabricated. At least none of the news stories I saw indicated he was suspected of anything, and only indicated that he was involved in a crash in which there was a fatality.

The man the nurse refused to take blood from died recently. The police were not looking for his blood because of any evidence of sort of "criminal" or even dangerous behavior. He was a trucker involved in an automobile accident, in which a person running from the police crossed the center line and hit him head on, causing an explosion -- in which he was badly burned.

The person that hit him and caused the explosion was killed immediately.

The reason the police were insisting on getting his blood is that it is standard procedure to take all drivers blood when an accident involves a fatality.

I just wanted to correct the record from what I saw as labeling a victim as a "criminal".

Patient at center of Utah nurse's dramatic arrest video dies

Wrong. He has to consent it is not standard to forcefully take blood.

 

[Mister Silver]

One has to understand that Trump is of the mind that he alone is allowed the freedom to do anything he wants while everyone else is subject to his criticisms. The man is not a president, plain and simple. He's a menace and a disgrace.

 

[Falvlun]

So true.

 

[4consideration]

Wrong. He has to consent it is not standard to forcefully take blood.

That wasn't what I was saying at all. Please read what I wrote and don't make up stuff.

I was saying it is the standard to obtain blood, and that was why the police were insisting on getting it -- but the nurse was objecting because the man was unconscious.

The man was not a criminal -- and that was my point. His blood was being obtained because he happened to have been involved in a fatality. He was not even thought to have been at fault for it.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

That wasn't what I was saying at all. Please read what I wrote and don't make up stuff.

I was saying it is the standard to obtain blood, and that was why the police were insisting on getting it -- but the nurse was objecting because the man was unconscious.

The man was not a criminal -- and that was my point. His blood was being obtained because he happened to have been involved in a fatality. He was not even thought to have been at fault for it.

Ok

 

[Valjean]

That wasn't what I was saying at all. Please read what I wrote and don't make up stuff.

I was saying it is the standard to obtain blood, and that was why the police were insisting on getting it -- but the nurse was objecting because the man was unconscious.

The man was not a criminal -- and that was my point. His blood was being obtained because he happened to have been involved in a fatality. He was not even thought to have been at fault for it.

Medical procedures may not be performed without consent.

 

[4consideration]

Medical procedures may not be performed without consent.

NO kidding. I never ever, ever, ever, said or indicated that they could.

If you think I said anything to indicate anyone should have been taking this guys blood for any reason, please post the words so I can clear it up for you.

It is standard procedure for that police department to obtain blood from all drivers involved in an accident in which there was a fatality. It is not standard procedure for them to do so without consent, or without a court issued document for it. That's what the nurse was objecting to -- either produce a warrant, or have the patient's consent. They couldn't get consent from an unconscious man.

Just because the police were LOOKING for the guys blood, and insisting on getting the guys blood -- does not in any way shape or form make him a criminal -- and that was the whole point I was trying to make.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

“During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition...

"Should stand" does not mean "must stand." And the NFL sided with the players anyways, so that isn't much of a point.

 

[Jainarayan]

"Should stand" does not mean "must stand." And the NFL sided with the players anyways, so that isn't much of a point.

That may very well be, but there's a lot of talk about NFL ratings being down (link to Google search). If this is true, then fans are also protesting.

I've come to realize and decide

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That may very well be, but there's a lot of talk about NFL ratings being down (link to Google search). If this is true, then fans are also protesting.

I did look into that. It seems notoriously difficult to pin down why ratings are down--multiple hurricanes being one reason, Manning retiring and Brady's suspension, the difficultly of deciphering ratings anyways--and even some that are showing the ratings for some games were superb and well, while some others weren't.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Black NFL and NBA players absolutely have the right to kneel during the national anthem. But the rest of us also have a right to disagree with it.

I did not vote for Trump but he is the President and we're stuck with him for 4 years. I don't think Hillary is the best option for the Democrats, maybe Sanders can beat Trump, I don't know, or maybe McCain or Romney may decide to run against Trump next election.

Trump is a typical billionaire, someone who people kiss up to and rarely disagree with to his face. He thinks he's smarter than everyone else when he's not and he says whatever he feels like saying without worrying about the consequences. The only reason he got elected was because American's want the economy to get going, they always put money first.

As for the Neo-Nazi's, I think Trump just likes anyone who likes him, he doesn't care who the heck they are.

Trumps approval ratings are very low so, it's not like everyone is really loving him.

And, if you really want to talk about hypocrisy, where are the protest march's for all the black on black crime? I think there was one about ten years ago in Chicago. And, if there was a website for White People Meet, or a White Entertainment Network, they would be considered racist. And if white people were given priority hiring for some jobs, that would be racist. And if CNN covered the Sherry West infant child murder case every day for a month, the same way they exploited the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case, black people would have said that CNN was racist. And, if a police officer points his weapon at me and tells me to get on the ground and I disobey and charge him, I'm going to get shot. How come black people don't believe that they should have to follow the same rules as I do?

"...where are the protest march's for all the black on black crime? "

I'm really getting sick of hearing this question. 99 times out of 100 when a black person kills another black person the authorities respond by arresting the person who did the killing, then prosecute him/her in court, where if the evidence supports the arrest, they are convicted of murder. What is there to protest about? It appears that the cops are doing their jobs. Now on the other hand, if half the time a black person killed another black person the cops started to make all sorts of excuses for why it was perfectly reasonable for the killing to have taken place and refuse to arrest or prosecute them, even after video footage clearly demonstrates that the person who was killed did nothing to deserve it, THEN there would be reason to protest. They would be protesting against the authorities refusing to do their jobs. So when video footage comes to light of a cop, say shooting an unarmed suspect in the back, and the authorities respond by making all sorts of excuses as to why the cop was somehow justified in shooting an unarmed suspect in the back and then refuse to arrest or prosecute them, people DO have a reason to protest, because the cops are NOT doing their jobs.

 

[Super Universe]

"...where are the protest march's for all the black on black crime? "

I'm really getting sick of hearing this question. 99 times out of 100 when a black person kills another black person the authorities respond by arresting the person who did the killing, then prosecute him/her in court, where if the evidence supports the arrest, they are convicted of murder. What is there to protest about? It appears that the cops are doing their jobs. Now on the other hand, if half the time a black person killed another black person the cops started to make all sorts of excuses for why it was perfectly reasonable for the killing to have taken place and refuse to arrest or prosecute them, even after video footage clearly demonstrates that the person who was killed did nothing to deserve it, THEN there would be reason to protest. They would be protesting against the authorities refusing to do their jobs. So when video footage comes to light of a cop, say shooting an unarmed suspect in the back, and the authorities respond by making all sorts of excuses as to why the cop was somehow justified in shooting an unarmed suspect in the back and then refuse to arrest or prosecute them, people DO have a reason to protest, because the cops are NOT doing their jobs.

Why protest black on black crime, what is there to protest about? So, you don't care about other black people killing other black people? What if the person who killed a black person does not get convicted and goes free? What if a black child was killed by some older punk gangbanger? You could care less unless it's a white police officer doing something wrong because it makes you feel good to protest against white people. It does not make you feel good to protest against black people even if they are murderers.

This thread is about hypocrisy. Blacks only protest white police crimes committed against blacks. That is hypocrisy.

What if white people took to the streets and only protested when blacks commit crimes against them? They would be racists.

When a cop shoots an unarmed man in the back, that is murder. That cop in NC has been charged with murder.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Why protest black on black crime, what is there to protest about? So, you don't care about other black people killing other black people? What if the person who killed a black person does not get convicted and goes free? What if a black child was killed by some older punk gangbanger? You could care less unless it's a white police officer doing something wrong because it makes you feel good to protest against white people. It does not make you feel good to protest against black people even if they are murderers.

This thread is about hypocrisy. Blacks only protest white police crimes committed against blacks. That is hypocrisy.

What if white people took to the streets and only protested when blacks commit crimes against them? They would be racists.

When a cop shoots an unarmed man in the back, that is murder. That cop in NC has been charged with murder.

Is your reading comprehension really that poor? Where did I say I didn't care about black people killing black people? IF there was a systematic pattern of the court system freeing black people guilty of killing other black people there WOULD be protests... but that's not happening.

Since there IS a systematic pattern of police officers using deadly force against black people who pose no threat, people ARE protesting. And it's not just black people who are protesting. I'm a white guy who is just as upset at the way this nation is increasingly becoming a police state. Cops have been using excessive force against the black community for decades. Unfortunately, it's only now that it's spilling over into the white community as well that it's become an issue. It's gotten to the point where far too many cops think that they ARE the law, instead of people paid by society to ENFORCE the law. Take the idiot cop in Utah who thought that just because a nurse refused to do what he said, that he could arrest her for breaking the law, when in reality HE was trying to get HER to break the law. What are the chances that he would have been fire, if there hadn't been a video of the incident?

Yeah, there's a cop in NC who is being tried for murder... sadly that's news, because 9 times out of 10 even the most blatant offenses are dismissed as 'justified shootings'. Oh, and before the video evidence came to light in the NC case, the police department was insisting that the cop did everything by the book and did absolutely nothing wrong. And that's the real problem. The number of bad cops are relatively few, but it's the 'good' cops automatically defending the bad ones that has truly corrupted the system. A police department should NEVER be the authority that investigates a shooting that involves one of their own officers. There should be a completely independent authority that investigates all such cases in order to avoid conflict of interest.

You really should stand up and start protesting against the increasing use of excessive force by police departments across the nation now, because if you wait until they start using the same tactics on you, it'll be too late.

 

[Super Universe]

Is your reading comprehension really that poor? Where did I say I didn't care about black people killing black people? IF there was a systematic pattern of the court system freeing black people guilty of killing other black people there WOULD be protests... but that's not happening.

Since there IS a systematic pattern of police officers using deadly force against black people who pose no threat, people ARE protesting. And it's not just black people who are protesting. I'm a white guy who is just as upset at the way this nation is increasingly becoming a police state. Cops have been using excessive force against the black community for decades. Unfortunately, it's only now that it's spilling over into the white community as well that it's become an issue. It's gotten to the point where far too many cops think that they ARE the law, instead of people paid by society to ENFORCE the law. Take the idiot cop in Utah who thought that just because a nurse refused to do what he said, that he could arrest her for breaking the law, when in reality HE was trying to get HER to break the law. What are the chances that he would have been fire, if there hadn't been a video of the incident?

Yeah, there's a cop in NC who is being tried for murder... sadly that's news, because 9 times out of 10 even the most blatant offenses are dismissed as 'justified shootings'. Oh, and before the video evidence came to light in the NC case, the police department was insisting that the cop did everything by the book and did absolutely nothing wrong. And that's the real problem. The number of bad cops are relatively few, but it's the 'good' cops automatically defending the bad ones that has truly corrupted the system. A police department should NEVER be the authority that investigates a shooting that involves one of their own officers. There should be a completely independent authority that investigates all such cases in order to avoid conflict of interest.

You really should stand up and start protesting against the increasing use of excessive force by police departments across the nation now, because if you wait until they start using the same tactics on you, it'll be too late.

I have more education than you do, so, I can read just fine.

Where did you say you didn't care about black people killing black people? Actions speak louder than words. Blacks protest the 25 or so blacks who are killed by white police officers every year but they don't protest the thousands of blacks killed by their own.

Police officers use force against blacks, whites, mexicans, and native americans as well. That is systematic because all races have criminals. More white people are killed by cops than blacks each year.

Cops have been using excessive force against the black community for decades? This is not the 1950's. And blacks commit crimes against white people on a daily basis and it's in the thousands, not just 25, and you don't see white people protesting in the streets.

You think it's only now that white police using excessive force is an issue, you must be very young then.

Far too many cops think that they are the law? I got you figured out, you're a criminal so you don't like the police. Funny how that works, the criminals don't like cops.

That idiot cop in Utah has received a great deal of criticism. White people allow the system to do it's job. We don't have to protest in the street over one knucklehead with a badge who thought he was more powerful than he really was.

9 times out of 10 the most blatant offenses are dismissed? If you are doing something wrong and then a cop makes a judgement call in order to protect himself you'd better expect that others are going to side with the cop.

The police department for the NC cop insisted that he did everything by the book and did nothing wrong? That is an absolute lie, I saw the police commissioner on television saying they were charging the cop with murder. If you mean the police union was saying that the cop did everything right, well, that is their job.

A police department should not investigage itself? I might agree with that depending on who the independant authority was.

I should protest the increasing use of excessive force by police departments across the nation? When I get pulled over for speeding I don't try to flee or fight with the officer so I don't have anything to worry about. I follow the rules and don't have any expectation that the rules shouldn't apply to me unlike the people you see protesting in the streets.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Far too many cops think that they are the law? I got you figured out, you're a criminal so you don't like the police. Funny how that works, the criminals don't like cops.

I'm not a criminal, and I don't like cops, especially the ones who are out to intimidate, those who do wrongful searches, road side strip searches, and generally all-round abuse their badge. I don't much either for how militarized they've become. I don't like the ones here who threatened the mayor in one town and tried to have a guy put through double jeopardy in another. I don't like the ones who bust teens over a joint, nor do I like the ones who leave their dogs in the car with the engine running and take lunch breaks that are over an hour long.

 

[Super Universe]

I'm not a criminal, and I don't like cops, especially the ones who are out to intimidate, those who do wrongful searches, road side strip searches, and generally all-round abuse their badge. I don't much either for how militarized they've become. I don't like the ones here who threatened the mayor in one town and tried to have a guy put through double jeopardy in another. I don't like the ones who bust teens over a joint, nor do I like the ones who leave their dogs in the car with the engine running and take lunch breaks that are over an hour long.

You're not a criminal? Suuuuure you're not. If anyone falls for that tell them I have some land on the moon that I will sell to them, cheap.

You don't like cops? You shouldn't. They put you behind bars.

Cops intimidate? People intimidate. Cops are people. Who do you want to be the police? Oh, right, no one should be the police so you can get away with all the drug dealing you want to do because it's easy money and that's what is important to you, not working hard.

Road side strip searches? Any evidence? You don't have any, do you?

You don't like how militarized the police have become? They've always had SWAT units and battering rams and riot vehicles. It's not new.

You don't like double jeopardy? Really? Those cops who beat up Rodney King were tried twice. The Supreme Court ruled that states and the federal courts were different jurisdictions so you can be tried twice but the fed's will only charge you with a civil rights violation in a double jeopardy case.

You don't like it when cops bust a teen over a joint? I do. I love those cops. Those punk teens grow up addicted and lazy and don't graduate high school and sit at home and smoke pot all day long and play video games and living off mom and never support themselves.

You don't like cops who leave their dogs in the car with the engine running and take lunch breaks that are over an hour long? If you had ever really worked at a job you would understand that when it's lunch time, it's lunch time.

 

[QuestioningMind]

I have more education than you do, so, I can read just fine.

Where did you say you didn't care about black people killing black people? Actions speak louder than words. Blacks protest the 25 or so blacks who are killed by white police officers every year but they don't protest the thousands of blacks killed by their own.

Police officers use force against blacks, whites, mexicans, and native americans as well. That is systematic because all races have criminals. More white people are killed by cops than blacks each year.

Cops have been using excessive force against the black community for decades? This is not the 1950's. And blacks commit crimes against white people on a daily basis and it's in the thousands, not just 25, and you don't see white people protesting in the streets.

You think it's only now that white police using excessive force is an issue, you must be very young then.

Far too many cops think that they are the law? I got you figured out, you're a criminal so you don't like the police. Funny how that works, the criminals don't like cops.

That idiot cop in Utah has received a great deal of criticism. White people allow the system to do it's job. We don't have to protest in the street over one knucklehead with a badge who thought he was more powerful than he really was.

9 times out of 10 the most blatant offenses are dismissed? If you are doing something wrong and then a cop makes a judgement call in order to protect himself you'd better expect that others are going to side with the cop.

The police department for the NC cop insisted that he did everything by the book and did nothing wrong? That is an absolute lie, I saw the police commissioner on television saying they were charging the cop with murder. If you mean the police union was saying that the cop did everything right, well, that is their job.

A police department should not investigage itself? I might agree with that depending on who the independant authority was.

I should protest the increasing use of excessive force by police departments across the nation? When I get pulled over for speeding I don't try to flee or fight with the officer so I don't have anything to worry about. I follow the rules and don't have any expectation that the rules shouldn't apply to me unlike the people you see protesting in the streets.

"I have more education than you do, so, I can read just fine."

You start off with a moronic claim that you have absolutely no way of knowing is actually true. I not only question your reading comprehension, but I doubt your reasoning abilities as well.

Anyway, have fun in the police state that you're foolishly welcoming with open arms! I suspect that you deserve it.