The idea of hell is emotionally draining.

[danieldemol]

His Mercy is greater then his wrath, but it won't save the disbelievers from his wrath, that would be it gone to extreme.

Actually you are simply terming the path of moderation as extreme here, and it only seems to decieve those whose hearts have been twisted by hate in my opinion.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

His Mercy is greater then his wrath, but it won't save the disbelievers from his wrath, that would be it gone to extreme.

Then His Mercy is not greater than His Wrath..

 

[Link]

Then His Mercy is not greater than His Wrath..

His mercy though embraces all things, has no place for disbelievers in the next world despite it's greatness, it is greater then his wrath though.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

His mercy though embraces all things, has no place for disbelievers in the next world despite it's greatness, it is greater then his wrath though.

Then how can one say it embraces all things? You are effectively saying it embraces all things except disbelievers..

 

[Link]

Then how can one say it embraces all things?

He has compassion for them and has given ample chance to turn back, and wants them to repent. This is what it means, but, disbelievers there will be nothing for them in the next world but punishment.

 

[Truthseeker]

Disbelievers can't have mercy? Then what does mercy greater than His wrath mean? Can't God do as He pleases with each individual?

 

[Link]

Then what does mercy greater than His wrath mean?

It means if people repent he accepts it and he tries to help people overcome their sinful state through his compassion.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

He has compassion for them and has given ample chance to turn back, and wants them to repent. This is what it means, but, disbelievers there will be nothing for them in the next world but punishment.

I believe Allah time and again in the Qur'an warns the disbelievers of His Wrath and punishment in Hell for their disbelief but Allah also time and again reminds us of His Mercy and if we take also His Statements that His Mercy embraces all things and His Mercy will prevail over His Wrath, the way to interpret all this is that Allah will punish the disbelievers in Hell in accordance with His Wrath and for as long as His Wrath exists, but His Wrath will eventually be extinguished and only His Mercy will be left, and then the disbelievers will be forgiven their disbelief.

 

[Link]

Can't God do as He pleases with each individual?

God does not tolerate ingratitude towards him and rebellion to him from my understanding. Prophets and leaders appointed by God are means to him, if you reject them, you reject his greatest favor upon humanity and you reject the light towards him and his proofs and he doesn't accept this. The reaction to such actions is punishment forever unless they repent and change.

 

[Link]

I believe Allah time and again in the Qur'an warns the disbelievers of His Wrath and punishment in Hell for their disbelief but Allah also time and again reminds us of His Mercy and if we take also His Statements that His Mercy embraces all things and His Mercy will prevail over His Wrath, the way to interpret all this is that Allah will punish the disbelievers in Hell in accordance with His Wrath and for as long as His Wrath exists, but His Wrath will eventually be extinguished and only His Mercy will be left, and then the disbelievers will be forgiven their disbelief.

You can believe what you want, but I embrace both sides of God, his wrath and mercy. I embrace his vengeance towards dark souls as much I embrace his compassion for believers and his mercy on them.

 

[Link]

And like I said hell is an emotional draining belief because neither God nor Messengers nor believers wants anyone going there and we should all do our best out of compassion to save people from it.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

When I left Islam for five years, my mind was twisted in a way to find faults in Quran. But emotionally the reason I was motivated to leave Islam and find faults was the idea of hell for disbelievers (I knew the concept of mustafeen and it was not that being the problem).

How you emotional phrase a moral question like for example, why suffering exists in the world, will make you disbelieve very easily. This is why it's important for me to pay attention to the proofs and insights in Quran proving hell and particular to disbelievers and the different levels of it because without that proof and eloquently emphasizing on it, I would not be able to stay in Islam.

Here is a poem I wrote way back:

Say Islam was true
And I was a Jew
Would God torture me
For what I did not see?

In the name of justice
Pain as the flames burn
Days turn into weeks
Weeks into years
All for disbelief
I will have no relief

Billions of years pass by
Justice is still not served
All good is rejected
My good actions are ineffective
And I would not burn if my mind was reflective?

This is the creed that I use to follow
But now I realize such a creed is shallow
Whomever desires other than the true religion
Let him burn in the fire?!
As oppose to loving him, having compassion for him
Appreciating his good,
Honoring his struggles,
Being his friend,
No! No! That is not the way!

For God is enemy of those whom disbelieve!
Friend and Protector of those whom believe!
All are reduced to the lowest of the low!
Except - of course - for those all special and great believers!
Everyone but them, to hell they go!

All astray souls - be prepared for increasing burning!
For none but the guided will have peace!
Is that the remembrance that is suppose to bring ease?
Peace you say?
Bowing Five times a day!
To a Lord whom will watch humans burn in agony?
Having the believers laugh at them for the sake of an irony?

A Lord whom tortures everyone but the righteous guided?
A Lord whom loves not the disbelievers!
Hates them with a strong hatred!
And all this teachings is suppose to be sacred?

Most Merciful, Most Compassionate is he called by all!
But threatens all to hell, except those whom respond to the call?
If you have to be righteous to enter heaven.
What mercy was ever spread in creation?
Or is God accepting regret from a righteous person
Truly a show of ultra mercy, forgiveness, and compassion?
As if it's not justice to accept his regret and reformation!

At the end, O Lord of Islam!
If you are to burn me for this heresy
Then you truly were not a Lord of Mercy.
Not Worthy of Worship, not worth anyone's time.





Comment: The idea of hell being denied by the wicked people is all over Quran. At the end, the battle between truth and falsehood in my view, will be a battle between soothsayers type religion and the Prophets and sent ones religion, and there will not be different versions of the latter, because Mahdi and Jesus will bring miracles. It's just at this point, some will accuse them of being sorcerers and gained their power through skill and knowledge rather then being given that power from God which is disbelief in God's Lordship.

Dear Link

It may be worth noting that by focusing so much on this, we manage to create a bit of “hell” in our very own beings.

To be emotionally drained by issues [of faith] is to contribute to an overall hell-like state - not in any afterlife, but in the very here and now, continuously, all the time.

When instead, we live and act from a principle of servitude, our focus is nor on the self or on a timeline, but on the needs of others and on the present. It is to live by Divine Will (as opposed to by will of ego) and doing this, is the secret to inner fulfilment and a certain path towards the promotion of serenity and manifestation of the worldly state of “heaven”.


Humbly
Hermit

 

[The_Fisher_King]

You can believe what you want, but I embrace both sides of God, his wrath and mercy. I embrace his vengeance towards dark souls as much I embrace his compassion for believers and his mercy on them.

And you are entitled to believe what you want too .

 

[Link]

And you are entitled to believe what you want too .

We aren't entitled to either believe or speak about God what we don't know, but at the end, God will judge all this and we leave the matter for God.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

We aren't entitled to either believe or speak about God what we don't know, but at the end, God will judge all this and we leave the matter for God.

Aameen!

 

[Link]

Dear Link

It may be worth noting that by focusing so much on this, we manage to create a bit of “hell” in our very own beings.

To be emotionally drained by issues [of faith] is to contribute to an overall hell-like state - not in any afterlife, but in the very here and now, continuously, all the time.

You are right but best motivation is to save ourselves and as much as possible people out of this fear. It does create severe sadness, especially by the sheer numbers of enemies and little number of believers, it's hard to recognize, but none the less, is the reality.

 

[Link]

Prophets for example, they were guaranteed paradise, but their fear was regarding people.

 

[Link]

Ahlulbayt of each time are signs of God treasured by him and light from him, through them God's Name is manifested and he is known through them. The Quranic argument is that these holy souls would connect everyone to God if they can and they can provide miracles and signs.

If we don't see God at the end and are veiled from him and his signs and don't see the beauty in his light and reject it, it's because our actions are for other then him.

If we don't go to his door and walk the path leading to God, where will we go?

Those who go to other than God and enter through other then his doors, why do they do what they do?

Everyone doing it (going to other then God's guidance) and very little entering God's door, is not an excuse. To him is the means of ascensions and you have to seek proofs and insights, not just make up reality. Those who trusted misguiding Jinn and humans and were lead astray into darkness, why did they do it? Why was not God's chosen leaders good enough for them?

 

[Truthseeker]

I believe Allah time and again in the Qur'an warns the disbelievers of His Wrath and punishment in Hell for their disbelief but Allah also time and again reminds us of His Mercy and if we take also His Statements that His Mercy embraces all things and His Mercy will prevail over His Wrath, the way to interpret all this is that Allah will punish the disbelievers in Hell in accordance with His Wrath and for as long as His Wrath exists, but His Wrath will eventually be extinguished and only His Mercy will be left, and then the disbelievers will be forgiven their disbelief.

I agree with that, in a way. I believe that no doubt those disbelievers and wrongdoers, which usually go hand-in-hand together, or maybe always go together, will at the least be praying in hell for their deliverance from hell, and if people pray for them that gets them out of hell faster. God is merciful and will eventually gradually get them out of hell, but I have no idea how long this takes.

 

[danieldemol]

I believe that no doubt those disbelievers and wrongdoers, which usually go hand-in-hand together, or maybe always go together

A shameless polemic based on nothing.

There is no evidence that disbelievers do wrong more than believers do, unless you mean breaking purely arbitrary rules such as the rule against eating pork, in which case many Baha'i would be wrongdoers for their disbelief in Muhammadanism.