The Jehovah's witnesses and the rest. What's the stumper?

[sojourner]

“new Israel,” hello

There is no “new Israel.” The old one works just fine (as does the old Christianity). Replacement theology is a joke.

 

[cataway]

There is no “new Israel.” The old one works just fine (as does the old Christianity). Replacement theology is a joke.

Acts 15 :14 "Symʹe·on has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name"

today that is what's happen . in all the nation's there is a people that are proud to be called his witness

 

[sojourner]

Acts 15 :14 "Symʹe·on has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name"

today that is what's happen . in all the nation's there is a people that are proud to be called his witness

Only in your own belief. The rest of Christianity is still the Body of Christ and is doing juuuust fine.

 

[cataway]

Only in your own belief. The rest of Christianity is still the Body of Christ and is doing juuuust fine.

’ (Jas 4:4) Jesus said of his disciples: “They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.” (Joh 17:16) Therefore, Jesus is careful that those who make up the members of his body are clean morally and spiritually. (Eph 5:26, 27)
"are clean morally and spiritually" hardly describes the rest of Christianity.
"They are no part of the world" what does that mean to you's ?

 

[firedragon]

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. It doesn’t matter. They’re making a mountain out of a molehill when they insist that Jehovah is the Real Name of God, and that their usage of that particular appellation gives them some kind of authenticity over the rest of us. It does not, and that’s my beef.

I must agree with your logical explanation here.

 

[firedragon]

Mathew 12:25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.

Christianity and Islam have not been able to become One.

There is wisdom to be found why there is a promise that the day will arrive when we will stand as One people under One God.

That day did arrive, we are now learning how to stand together as One human race.

Regards Tony

When you bring in this kind of post completely out of the blue irrelevant to the topic, irrelevant to the post responded to, its proselytisation. This is like a wild weed in this forum really. It was not like this long ago. Very rarely we used to see this kind of consistent irrelevant proselytisation, now its in every thread.

Please be kind enough to try your best not to steer every thread away into proselytising your faith.

Peace.

 

[Deeje]

Where I draw the line is precisely there: your judgment of other people, when you have no authority to do so, and your appropriation of the religion. You all claimed the Christian sandbox was tainted, built a new sandbox, moved into it, and then claimed that your sandbox is the "original" and "real" sandbox. It's disingenuous.

Let me just clarify this point Sojourner....this is how I see your analogy.....
Your use of the “sandbox” creates interesting word pictures for me.

IMO, the “sandbox” was originally Judaism, but some nasty kitties got in and soiled it so badly that it could not be cleansed, so when Jesus came in the first century, he created a new “sandbox” and led his disciples out of the soiled one and into a clean one...same God but under a new covenant. But he warned that the same kind of nasty kitties would soil that sandbox too. But since there were no other sandboxes to be made until Christ came again, his disciples were to try and avoid the contamination as best they could. The owners of the sandbox did not think that the soiling stank and were content to play in there for centuries, eliminating the complainers (those who could not stand the stench) along the way. So those conditioned to the contamination remained silent.....virtually saying....”what contamination?”

When Christ returned to establish his kingdom (as he promised in 1914 by our estimations) Daniel recorded the time of his coronation in heaven and linked it to what he called...”the time of the end”. (Daniel 7:13-14; Daniel 12:4; 9-10) so on his return, Christ again created a new sandbox, and this time every bit of leftover contamination was removed, and this sandbox was to remain clean for all time to come. The final cleansing we see as the "end" of the present system of things....(Matthew 24:3)...and the beginning of the Kingdom's rulership on earth. Jesus will judge who is worthy of entry, by their obedience and conduct.

A separation occurred at this juncture and those who didn’t want, or see the need for the 'cleansing', stayed in the old 'sandbox' that felt familiar and comfortable, despite the stench which they never acknowledged. For them, there was no need to change a thing.....except to gather themselves into like-minded sects, carving Christianity up into thousands of disunited fragments. Yet they were all somehow squeezed into the same 'sandbox', united only by a few core beliefs that they held in common. This, they insisted, was true Christianity. But I believe that Jesus will set them straight.....his statement, “I never knew you” will shock a lot of people. (Matthew 7:21-23; 1 Corinthians 1:10)

But it doesn't make them Jehovah's Witnesses, as you wrote.

You are so busy stumbling over capital letters that you lost the gist of what I said. Jehovah’s “witnesses” have always existed as the scriptures indicate.....but rather than them joining us....we joined them by becoming his “witnesses” in this “time of the end”. Do you see where you tripped up by being so pedantic?

it was just you insinuating through their use that ancient Jews were part of your denomination.

At no time did I say that. It is the way that you interpreted what I said. Perhaps you need to read a little more carefully and with a lot less bias and few less knee jerks.

I'm sorry that you think I'm "elevating my status."

You have done it a few times. What purpose did stating your theological 'qualifications' have other than to put yourself above the “uneducated”?
The Pharisees did that too, remember?

They were. Most Jewish boys in that time were educated in Torah.

The rabbinical schools were not what Jesus and the 12 attended because that fact was used to mock them. (John 17:15; Acts 4:13) Fathers educated their children in ancient Israel as God instructed. (Deuteronomy 6:6-7)

No, it's simply that it would add nothing cogent to the discussion at hand

When people point fingers, it’s always a good idea to see what fingers are pointing back at them. In Jesus’ day, his “accusers” were in God’s eyes, the “accused”. The heretics calling others 'heretics' is exactly what Roman Catholicism did with the inquisition. How many of Christ’s true disciples were silenced by their power-driven tyranny? How could Christ ever have set foot in their churches with so much innocent blood running out the door?

Isn't there only one God?

No, actually according to scripture, there are two gods vying for our worship. One is the true God and the other is a pretender. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) Sadly the pretender has at this time more devotees because he is the one who created the “sandbox” that they play in. It’s so full of decorations and distractions that they don’t notice how filthy it is in there. (2 Corinthians 6:14-18)

You don't have any idea what I believe. You can spout all the internet definitions you like. But you're no clearer about shamanism by doing so. It's an umbrella term that extends beyond the scope of what you reprinted here. And none of it adds anything of significance to this discussion.

Oh but it does.....”let he who is without sin, cast the first stone”.....if you 'live in a glass house, be careful when you throw stones, because they can come right back at you. They can't of course unless they know your address.... Why are you hiding? You seem to have your own definition of Christianity....do you have your own definition of shamanism too?

It does add to this discussion if the finger pointer is not open to the same scrutiny as those he is trashing.....fair's fair, isn't it?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

When you bring in this kind of post completely out of the blue irrelevant to the topic, irrelevant to the post responded to, its proselytisation. This is like a wild weed in this forum really. It was not like this long ago. Very rarely we used to see this kind of consistent irrelevant proselytisation, now its in every thread.

Please be kind enough to try your best not to steer every thread away into proselytising your faith.

Peace.

Mathew 12:25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.

Christianity and Islam have not been able to become One.

There is wisdom to be found why there is a promise that the day will arrive when we will stand as One people under One God.

That day did arrive, we are now learning how to stand together as One human race.

Regards Tony

I agree. IDK why they have separate out like that. It seems counterintuitive to the spiritual dynamic.

It was applicable to what I was replying to which was this; post The Jehovah's witnesses and the rest. What's the stumper?

Who I replied to, agreed.

Regards Tony

 

[Deeje]

@firedragon

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. It doesn’t matter. They’re making a mountain out of a molehill when they insist that Jehovah is the Real Name of God, and that their usage of that particular appellation gives them some kind of authenticity over the rest of us. It does not, and that’s my beef.

I must agree with your logical explanation here.

Sorry firedragon......but seriously?

Do we insist on "Jehovah" being the "real" name of God? When have we ever said that? Somebody "made a mountain out of a molehill", but it wasn't JW's.
We can use Yahweh or Jehovah or even יְהֹוָ֞ה YHWH because all of these describe the same God. It was he who revealed his name to Moses and told the Jews to "mention" it in all their generations..."forever".

Here it is from the Tanakh.....Exodus 3:15...
"And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation." טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר:"

"The Lord God" is יְהֹוָ֞ה....Yahweh.....Jehovah in English.

Shemot - Exodus - Chapter 3 (Parshah Shemot)

We call ourselves "Jehovah's Witnesses" because we feel that we have joined in with past witnesses of Jehovah in identifying what we do...its not merely what we call ourselves, but the activity we have engaged in since we began our public witnessing. A 'witness' gives testimony so it is a description of what we are...."doing" what we believe Jesus commanded us to do. (Matthew 28:19-20)

Surely this is enough now?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Yeah, but you all seem to be adamant about the whole not-appearing-in-the-texts "Jehovah" thing. You seem to be quick to dismiss the Jesus part, but not the Jehovah part. Looks like a double standard to me.

“Quick to dismiss the Jesus part”?! Oh yeah....JW’s don’t obey Him at all, do we?

We don’t ‘love our brothers’ do we? (John 13:34-35) And we kill our “enemies”, don’t we? -Matthew 5:44

Wait, no! That’s Christendom!!
You’d actually think that since Christendom’s majority are “Jesus is God” believers, that they’d be the most obedient to Jesus.

But history reveals otherwise.

 

[The Anointed]

Today I became the one I am
The one that I was yesterday is gone'
The one I'll be tomorrow I will be
But today I found that I am "Who I Am.'

For I am who I am, and may I never lose sight
Of the fact that I am 'Who I Am' day and night
I'm not who I was nor who I will be
For 'Who I Am' is the name that my God gave to me.

So get behind me you charlatan priests, and you shams
For I am true to my God, to MY GOD, 'Who I Am.'

There is no other name in heaven or earth by which we can be saved. The name that God gives to all his sons, "I must be true to 'Who I Am,' who can trace his unbroken genetic thread of Life, back to the first life form that crawled out of the primordial soup and has evolved to become 'Who I Am' to who I am true, and am, but an extension of the eternal 'Who I Am."

Never have I condemned 'Who I Am,' to who I am an obedient servant, son and heir..

 

[Misty Woods]

Misty Woods The Apostles creed was written in the forth Century at The Council of Nicea it was a direct response to the Heretic Arius!
Arius was a Christian he was AMONG Christians until he started teaching False Heresies. Arius taught "Jesus is not God" he was removed from AMONG Christians thus the creed was produced to make it clear what Christians believe!
2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

Misty Woods The Apostles creed was written in the forth Century at The Council of Nicea it was a direct response to the Heretic Arius!
Arius was a Christian he was AMONG Christians until he started teaching False Heresies. Arius taught "Jesus is not God" he was removed from AMONG Christians thus the creed was produced to make it clear what Christians believe!
2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

Thank you for your response. As Mr. Sampson did admit, the apostles creed is not located within the Holy Scriptures…… Here are my thoughts in regards to the history of this creed…………. John 1:14 states: “So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth.” Jesus prayed to his Father ; Matt 26:39,42 …Jehovah is our Father Isa 64:8… We are Jehovah’s children Act 17:28,29…..

Hebrews states: “For both he who is sanctifying and those who are being sanctified all stem from one, and for this cause he [Jesus Christ] is not ashamed to call them ‘brothers,’ as he says: ‘I will declare your name to my brothers; in the middle of the congregation I will praise you with song.’” (Heb 2:11, 12) Like David, who was a member of the congregation of Israel in the middle of which he praised Jehovah, Jesus Christ can, in this instance, be viewed as one of the spiritual congregation, the others in it being called his “brothers.” (Compare Mt 25:39, 40.) David belonged to the Israelite congregation of Jehovah God, and Jesus Christ was also a member of it while on earth, preaching amidst its members. A remnant of that congregation became part of Jesus’ congregation.

On the night before he suffered, Jesus Christ prayed to his heavenly Father regarding his disciples: “Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth.” (John 17:17) He was praying for his disciples to be sanctified, or set apart. But did he refer to any written code or creed? No! Rather, he showed that what God has said, as recorded in the Bible, set them apart from others. ….. When we pray to our Father Jehovah, through our Lord Jesus, we are showing our love, honor and gratefulness for our oldest of all brother’s, who loved us enough to lay down his life for each and every one of us. Where is the Trinity, or apostles creed in this???

When discussing the matter of prayer, Jesus said: “Do not say the same things over and over again.” (Matthew 6:7) Since Jesus disapproved of repeating written or memorized prayers, does it not stand to reason that he also would disapprove of reciting creeds in public worship? The fact is that nowhere in the Bible can we find any reference to Jesus’ using or instructing anyone to use creeds in worship. “God is a Spirit,” he said, “and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.”—John 4:24.


The word apostasy in the Christian Greek Scriptures is used primarily with regard to religious defection; a withdrawal or abandonment of the true cause, worship, and service of God, and hence an abandonment of what one has previously professed and a total desertion of principles or faith. During the first century, between 51 and 52 AD, an apostasy among professed Christians was foretold by the apostle Paul at 2 Thessalonians 2:3. He specifically mentioned certain apostates, such as Hymenaeus, Alexander, and Philetus. (1Ti 1:19, 20;2Ti 2:16-19) Among the varied causes of apostasy set forth in apostolic warnings were: lack of faith (Heb 3:12), lack of endurance in the face of persecution (Heb 10:32-39), abandonment of right moral standards (2Pe 2:15-22), the heeding of the “counterfeit words” of false teachers and “misleading inspired utterances” (2Pe 2:1-3; 1Ti 4:1-3; 2Ti 2:16-19; compare Pr 11:9), and trying “to be declared righteous by means of law” (Ga 5:2-4)


The apostle John finished the book of Revelation during the 1st century, somewhere between 94 and 96 AD. More than two centuries later, Constantine the Great shaped the early part of the 4th century, while becoming the first Roman emperor to adopt Christianity. Red Flag!! Red Flag!! When Satan offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world in exchange for a single act of worship, Jesus again opposed him by quoting Scripture, taking his stand firmly for the exclusive worship of his Father. (Deuteronomy 5:9; 6:13; 10:20),,, and not once did Jesus deny that Satan was the actual ruler of the kingdoms of the world..

During this same 4th century, the Council of Nicaea, in May 325, declared Arius a heretic after he refused to sign the formula of faith stating that Christ was of the same divine nature as God. First Council of Nicaea, (325), the first ecumenical council of the Christian church, meeting in ancient Nicaea (now İznik, Turkey). It was called by the emperor Constantine I, an unbaptized catechumen, who presided over the opening session and took part in the discussions. He hoped a general council of the church would solve the problem created in the Eastern church by Arianism, a heresy first proposed by Arius of Alexandria that affirmed that Christ is not divine but a created being. …… So a Roman emperor of one of Satan’s kingdoms called a meeting, in order to establish a creed meant to mislead, and therefore distort the very nature of our Father, our oldest of brothers (Christ Jesus), and while we’re at it let’s insist that the Holy Spirit is also a god within these three…… and then eventually we end up with Holy Mary mother of God…..

Historically, the major means that the church had of combating heretics was to excommunicate them. In the 12th and 13th centuries, however, the Inquisition was established by the church to combat heresy; heretics who refused to recant after being tried by the church were handed over to the civil authorities for punishment, usually execution………. But wait, didn’t Jesus say to treat other’s how we want to be treated, and to turn the other cheek??

 

[Misty Woods]

Misty Woods The Apostles creed was written in the forth Century at The Council of Nicea it was a direct response to the Heretic Arius!
Arius was a Christian he was AMONG Christians until he started teaching False Heresies. Arius taught "Jesus is not God" he was removed from AMONG Christians thus the creed was produced to make it clear what Christians believe!
2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

Thank you for your response. As Mr. Sampson did admit, the apostles creed is not located within the Holy Scriptures…… Here are my thoughts in regards to the history of this creed…………. John 1:14 states: “So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth.” Jesus prayed to his Father ; Matt 26:39,42 …Jehovah is our Father Isa 64:8… We are Jehovah’s children Act 17:28,29…..

Hebrews states: “For both he who is sanctifying and those who are being sanctified all stem from one, and for this cause he [Jesus Christ] is not ashamed to call them ‘brothers,’ as he says: ‘I will declare your name to my brothers; in the middle of the congregation I will praise you with song.’” (Heb 2:11, 12) Like David, who was a member of the congregation of Israel in the middle of which he praised Jehovah, Jesus Christ can, in this instance, be viewed as one of the spiritual congregation, the others in it being called his “brothers.” (Compare Mt 25:39, 40.) David belonged to the Israelite congregation of Jehovah God, and Jesus Christ was also a member of it while on earth, preaching amidst its members. A remnant of that congregation became part of Jesus’ congregation.

On the night before he suffered, Jesus Christ prayed to his heavenly Father regarding his disciples: “Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth.” (John 17:17) He was praying for his disciples to be sanctified, or set apart. But did he refer to any written code or creed? No! Rather, he showed that what God has said, as recorded in the Bible, set them apart from others. ….. When we pray to our Father Jehovah, through our Lord Jesus, we are showing our love, honor and gratefulness for our oldest of all brother’s, who loved us enough to lay down his life for each and every one of us. Where is the Trinity, or apostles creed in this???

When discussing the matter of prayer, Jesus said: “Do not say the same things over and over again.” (Matthew 6:7) Since Jesus disapproved of repeating written or memorized prayers, does it not stand to reason that he also would disapprove of reciting creeds in public worship? The fact is that nowhere in the Bible can we find any reference to Jesus’ using or instructing anyone to use creeds in worship. “God is a Spirit,” he said, “and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.”—John 4:24.


The word apostasy in the Christian Greek Scriptures is used primarily with regard to religious defection; a withdrawal or abandonment of the true cause, worship, and service of God, and hence an abandonment of what one has previously professed and a total desertion of principles or faith. During the first century, between 51 and 52 AD, an apostasy among professed Christians was foretold by the apostle Paul at 2 Thessalonians 2:3. He specifically mentioned certain apostates, such as Hymenaeus, Alexander, and Philetus. (1Ti 1:19, 20;2Ti 2:16-19) Among the varied causes of apostasy set forth in apostolic warnings were: lack of faith (Heb 3:12), lack of endurance in the face of persecution (Heb 10:32-39), abandonment of right moral standards (2Pe 2:15-22), the heeding of the “counterfeit words” of false teachers and “misleading inspired utterances” (2Pe 2:1-3; 1Ti 4:1-3; 2Ti 2:16-19; compare Pr 11:9), and trying “to be declared righteous by means of law” (Ga 5:2-4)


The apostle John finished the book of Revelation during the 1st century, somewhere between 94 and 96 AD. More than two centuries later, Constantine the Great shaped the early part of the 4th century, while becoming the first Roman emperor to adopt Christianity. Red Flag!! Red Flag!! When Satan offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world in exchange for a single act of worship, Jesus again opposed him by quoting Scripture, taking his stand firmly for the exclusive worship of his Father. (Deuteronomy 5:9; 6:13; 10:20),,, and not once did Jesus deny that Satan was the actual ruler of the kingdoms of the world..

During this same 4th century, the Council of Nicaea, in May 325, declared Arius a heretic after he refused to sign the formula of faith stating that Christ was of the same divine nature as God. First Council of Nicaea, (325), the first ecumenical council of the Christian church, meeting in ancient Nicaea (now İznik, Turkey). It was called by the emperor Constantine I, an unbaptized catechumen, who presided over the opening session and took part in the discussions. He hoped a general council of the church would solve the problem created in the Eastern church by Arianism, a heresy first proposed by Arius of Alexandria that affirmed that Christ is not divine but a created being. …… So a Roman emperor of one of Satan’s kingdoms called a meeting, in order to establish a creed meant to mislead, and therefore distort the very nature of our Father, our oldest of brothers (Christ Jesus), and while we’re at it let’s insist that the Holy Spirit is also a god within these three…… and then eventually we end up with Holy Mary mother of God…..

Historically, the major means that the church had of combating heretics was to excommunicate them. In the 12th and 13th centuries, however, the Inquisition was established by the church to combat heresy; heretics who refused to recant after being tried by the church were handed over to the civil authorities for punishment, usually execution………. But wait, didn’t Jesus say to treat other’s how we want to be treated, and to turn the other cheek??

 

[The Anointed]

Thank you for your response. As Mr. Sampson did admit, the apostles creed is not located within the Holy Scriptures…… Here are my thoughts in regards to the history of this creed…………. John 1:14 states: “So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth.” Jesus prayed to his Father ; Matt 26:39,42 …Jehovah is our Father Isa 64:8… We are Jehovah’s children Act 17:28,29…..

Hebrews states: “For both he who is sanctifying and those who are being sanctified all stem from one, and for this cause he [Jesus Christ] is not ashamed to call them ‘brothers,’ as he says: ‘I will declare your name to my brothers; in the middle of the congregation I will praise you with song.’” (Heb 2:11, 12) Like David, who was a member of the congregation of Israel in the middle of which he praised Jehovah, Jesus Christ can, in this instance, be viewed as one of the spiritual congregation, the others in it being called his “brothers.” (Compare Mt 25:39, 40.) David belonged to the Israelite congregation of Jehovah God, and Jesus Christ was also a member of it while on earth, preaching amidst its members. A remnant of that congregation became part of Jesus’ congregation.

On the night before he suffered, Jesus Christ prayed to his heavenly Father regarding his disciples: “Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth.” (John 17:17) He was praying for his disciples to be sanctified, or set apart. But did he refer to any written code or creed? No! Rather, he showed that what God has said, as recorded in the Bible, set them apart from others. ….. When we pray to our Father Jehovah, through our Lord Jesus, we are showing our love, honor and gratefulness for our oldest of all brother’s, who loved us enough to lay down his life for each and every one of us. Where is the Trinity, or apostles creed in this???

When discussing the matter of prayer, Jesus said: “Do not say the same things over and over again.” (Matthew 6:7) Since Jesus disapproved of repeating written or memorized prayers, does it not stand to reason that he also would disapprove of reciting creeds in public worship? The fact is that nowhere in the Bible can we find any reference to Jesus’ using or instructing anyone to use creeds in worship. “God is a Spirit,” he said, “and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.”—John 4:24.


The word apostasy in the Christian Greek Scriptures is used primarily with regard to religious defection; a withdrawal or abandonment of the true cause, worship, and service of God, and hence an abandonment of what one has previously professed and a total desertion of principles or faith. During the first century, between 51 and 52 AD, an apostasy among professed Christians was foretold by the apostle Paul at 2 Thessalonians 2:3. He specifically mentioned certain apostates, such as Hymenaeus, Alexander, and Philetus. (1Ti 1:19, 20;2Ti 2:16-19) Among the varied causes of apostasy set forth in apostolic warnings were: lack of faith (Heb 3:12), lack of endurance in the face of persecution (Heb 10:32-39), abandonment of right moral standards (2Pe 2:15-22), the heeding of the “counterfeit words” of false teachers and “misleading inspired utterances” (2Pe 2:1-3; 1Ti 4:1-3; 2Ti 2:16-19; compare Pr 11:9), and trying “to be declared righteous by means of law” (Ga 5:2-4)


The apostle John finished the book of Revelation during the 1st century, somewhere between 94 and 96 AD. More than two centuries later, Constantine the Great shaped the early part of the 4th century, while becoming the first Roman emperor to adopt Christianity. Red Flag!! Red Flag!! When Satan offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world in exchange for a single act of worship, Jesus again opposed him by quoting Scripture, taking his stand firmly for the exclusive worship of his Father. (Deuteronomy 5:9; 6:13; 10:20),,, and not once did Jesus deny that Satan was the actual ruler of the kingdoms of the world..

During this same 4th century, the Council of Nicaea, in May 325, declared Arius a heretic after he refused to sign the formula of faith stating that Christ was of the same divine nature as God. First Council of Nicaea, (325), the first ecumenical council of the Christian church, meeting in ancient Nicaea (now İznik, Turkey). It was called by the emperor Constantine I, an unbaptized catechumen, who presided over the opening session and took part in the discussions. He hoped a general council of the church would solve the problem created in the Eastern church by Arianism, a heresy first proposed by Arius of Alexandria that affirmed that Christ is not divine but a created being. …… So a Roman emperor of one of Satan’s kingdoms called a meeting, in order to establish a creed meant to mislead, and therefore distort the very nature of our Father, our oldest of brothers (Christ Jesus), and while we’re at it let’s insist that the Holy Spirit is also a god within these three…… and then eventually we end up with Holy Mary mother of God…..

Historically, the major means that the church had of combating heretics was to excommunicate them. In the 12th and 13th centuries, however, the Inquisition was established by the church to combat heresy; heretics who refused to recant after being tried by the church were handed over to the civil authorities for punishment, usually execution………. But wait, didn’t Jesus say to treat other’s how we want to be treated, and to turn the other cheek??

“Jesus The Evidence,” by Ian Wilson. P. 144. The Middle Ages, for the Jews at least, began with the advent to power of Constantine the Great. He was the first Roman Emperor to issue laws which radically limited the rights of the Jews as citizens’ of the Roman Empire, a right conferred on them by Caracalla in 212. As Constantine’s church grew in power it influenced the emperors to limit further the civil and political rights of the Jews.

But if times were again difficult for the Jews, for the Christian Gnostics and other fringe groups they were impossible. The books of Arius and his sympathizers were ordered to be burnt, and a reign of terror proclaimed for all those who did not conform with the new official Christian line.

:Understand now by this present statute, Novatians, Valentinians, Marcionites, Paulinians, you who are called Cataphrygians. . . . with what a tissue of lies and vanities, with what destructive and venomous errors, your doctrines are inextricably woven! We give you warning . . . .Let none of you presume, from this time forward, to meet in congregations. To prevent this, we command that you be deprived of all the houses in which you have been accustomed to meet . . . . and that these house should be handed over immediately to the catholic/ i.e. universal church.

Within a generation, hardly leaving a trace of their existence for posterity, the great majority of these groups simply died away as successive Christian emperors reiterated the policies that Constantine had pursued.

Is it prophesied anywhere in the scriptures, that the Lord would raise up the Roman Church, the head of which church, would claim to be the Shepherd chosen by the Lord to guide his people?

Yes! There is a prophecy of the Lord concerning the raising up of that Shepherd. In Matthew 27: 9-10; we read; “Then what was spoken by (Jeremiah) the prophet was fulfilled: "They took the thirty pieces of silver, the price set on him by the people of Israel, and they used them to buy the potter's field, as the LORD commanded me."

The words here quoted are not in any copy of Jeremiah extant. But they bear a strong resemblance to the words of Zechariah 11:12-13. And it seems, from a remark of Augustine, that the original copies of Matthew 27: 9-11; in his time named no prophet, but that Matthew 27: 9-19, originally said; “That which was spoken by ‘THE PROPHET’ was fulfilled: "They took the thirty pieces of silver, the price set on him by the people of Israel, and they used them to buy the potter's field, as the LORD commanded me." Indeed, it is believed that the name (Jeremiah) was erroneously inserted by some much later officious transcriber.

“That which was spoken by ‘THE PROPHET’ was fulfilled: "They took the thirty pieces of silver, the price set on him by the people of Israel, and they used them to buy the potter's field, as the LORD commanded me." THE PROPHET being Zechariah 11: 12 to 17.

Zechariah 11:12-17 New King James Version (NKJV) Then I said to them, “If it is agreeable to you, give me my wages; and if not, refrain.” So they weighed out for my wages thirty pieces of silver..

And the Lord said to me, “Throw it to the potter”—that princely price they set on me. So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the Lord for the potter. 14 Then I cut in two my other staff, Bonds, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

15 And the Lord said to me, “Next, take for yourself the implements of a foolish shepherd. 16 For indeed I will raise up a shepherd in the land who will not care for those who are cut off, nor seek the young, nor heal those that are broken, nor feed those that still stand. But he will eat the flesh of the fat and tear their hooves in pieces.

17 “Woe to the worthless shepherd,
Who leaves the flock!
A sword shall be against his arm
And against his right eye;
His arm shall completely wither,
And his right eye shall be totally blinded.”

Oh you shepherd of the darkness, who claim God sent you out
And even though we know that’s true, that fact I wouldn’t flout
For God commanded Zechariah, “Throw my wages ‘cross the floor,
Those thirty bits of silver, for I’ll guide this flock no more
A worthless shepherd now I’ll raise to guide this stubborn flock
And he will be a useless one, of him I’ll take no stock
For he’ll not feed my little ones, nor search for them that’s lost
But he eats the meat of the fattest sheep. And their hooves? He tears them off
That worthless shepherd, he is doomed for abandoning my flock
His power, will I destroy by war, his arm will wither dry, then drop
And his right eye will I turn Blind, that’s why he’s never seen
The passage where I speak of him, Zechariah eleven—twelve to seventeen.

There is but one church, which claims to be the Universal church, the head of which church claims to be the shepherd of Gods people, who was raised up after the Lord, who revealed himself through his obedient earthly host body ‘The Man Jesus.’ was paid the majestic wage of thirty pieces of silver, which was cast to the potter in the house of the Lord.

Catholic Quotes the Pope claiming to be God on earth

 

[Terry Sampson]

We don’t ‘love our brothers’ do we? (John 13:34-35) And we kill our “enemies”, don’t we? -Matthew 5:44

You seem to think that JWs discovered moral purity and brotherly love. You ought to take the latter claim up with the Baha'i. I think their claim predates JWs' claim. As for discovering moral purity, let me know when you walk on water, heal the sick, raise the dead, and feed the multitude.

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. in all the nation's there is a people that are proud to be called his witness

Witness? A witness needs to have seen something happening. What have you or the others seen of God or Jesus? You cannot truly be called witnesses.

"are clean morally and spiritually" hardly describes the rest of Christianity.

Only you are. Very nice.

 

[Terry Sampson]

Only you are. Very nice.

Caution, Aup. JWs thrive on mockery and rejection.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Christianity and Islam have not been able to become One.

This is like a wild weed in this forum really. It was not like this long ago. Very rarely we used to see this kind of consistent irrelevant proselytisation, now its in every thread.

Don't mind, Firedragon, all businesses employ professional promoters.
Tony: Have Bahais become one with Christianity and/or Islam by saying that Jesus is not the son of God or that message given to Mohammad's was not the last. In that way, why do you disregard Mirza Ghulam Ahmad who said that he was the Mahdi. Your Iranian preacher said that it is a sin to refuse messengers from Allah.

Caution, Aup. JWs thrive on mockery and rejection.

It is OK, Terry. It is not that I have not met JWs on the net or that I would hesitate to discuss things with them. Deeje has been here all the time.

 

[firedragon]

It was applicable to what I was replying to which was this; post The Jehovah's witnesses and the rest. What's the stumper?

Who I replied to, agreed.

Regards Tony

I completely disagree. But its your prerogative.

Have a good day.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Tony: Have Bahais become one with Christianity and/or Islam by saying that Jesus is not the son of God or that message given to Mohammad's was not the last.

You have misunderstood what was quoted.

Regards Tony