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The Jesus Myth

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angellous_evangellous

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jelly said:
imagine that a culture of people were reading during that time and traveling to different locations AND it wasn't uncommon....:facepalm:
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Just because there were markers doesn't mean that the average person could read them.:rolleyes:
 
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AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
fallingblood said:
Jesus would have died around 30 C.E. At latest, 32 C.E.

Paul began writing, from what we have, around 49 C.E.
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Really? That seems especially odd to me. Why did he wait 20 years to start writing about Jesus? He was alive and adult in 30 AD, wasn't he?

The problem becomes trying to really place the events of Paul into a time line. Even the date of 49 C.E. for his first letter is debatable. However, based on the information we do have, it would probably be safe to place it around 36 C.E. (if I remember correctly, most scholars would place that at the latest time he could have converted. 33 C.E. being the earliest).
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If Paul converted in 33 to 36, I cannot imagine how his writings could be empty of Jesus reports. Is that what you believe? That a man with Paul's passion for Jesus, in touch with men who lived and worked with Jesus, would not give us a single report from those men about Jesus himself?

That's beyond belief. His writings would be full of stories about his Master's worldy work.

I really don't see how anyone with a rudimentary understanding of human nature could argue otherwise, but I'll be glad to listen if you have a reasonable explanation.

Why didn't Paul speak copiously of Jesus' ministry on earth?

The fact that Paul states that the brother of Jesus was still living (he also mentions more family of Jesus) shows that Jesus had been a recent historical figure.
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One tossaway comment about meeting the brother of Jesus... and that's enough for you.

It seems awfully curious to me.
 
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AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
outhouse said:
problem with that is they didnt need a hero....
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I can't say more than I've said about that. If you don't think they needed a hero, then that's what you think.

he took over where john left off and ran with it freestyle
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I can't understand you here. Are you saying that Jesus took over where John left off?

That makes no sense to me. Can you expand on it?
 
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AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
angellous_evangellous said:
I'm very sorry to say that I missed the "good evidence and arguments for that case."
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Yeah, me too. I'm pretty sorry about that.

Believe me, I can sympathize. I can't tell you how many times I thought I've come up with something that's pure genius only to find that my professor is displeased with it or he is only mildly impressed...
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Oh, you treat me unfairly -- to tease me so!

If only just one of your wise professors -- or any other biblical scholar for that matter -- might come here and attempt to debunk me. That is the stuff of my dreams, angellous. Please don't tease me so. It's damned cruel.

If you really love me, couldn't you put out the call? I know they're busy. I know they're smarter than everyone else and can't be bothered with the intellectual hoi polloi. But couldn't you use your influence, in just this one case, to beg one of them into coming here and attempting to wrestle with me?

Please?

Anyway, enough of that. Consider yourself outblustered. Now onward.

I understand your attraction to the argument, but it simply isn't tenable. Sometimes it just works out that way.
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It is currently the dominant theory here in this thread. Sorry, bud.

If no one is willing to argue against it, I win.

Here's something to consider.... the whole concept of "AD" - "in the year of our Lord" - is centered on the approximate life of Christ. There's no such thing as Christ living significantly earlier than that because he is the starting point.:p
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I was using shortcut talk. For the sake of brevity and all.

It's legit, man. Ask anyone.

(I simply can't be beat, you know, but I love you for continuing to sorta try.)
 
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AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
Dirty Penguin said:
I'm not "certain" he ever existed but I'm certain the gospels are certain he existed.
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I'm not so certain of that. I think there's a fair chance that the gospels were written as fiction. By that, I mean that the gospelers might have been aware that their stories were substantially created by their own imaginations, rather than being reportorial.
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
angellous_evangellous said:
That's simply not the case, man. ALL of the research concerning travel in the first century indicates that travel was fairly quick - it was dangerous and expensive, but it wasn't uncommon. There were trade routes all over the ancient world - by land and sea.

I have a section on ancient travel in my dissertation, and I put it in recently.
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correct

even maps of the area
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
jelly said:
imagine that a culture of people were reading during that time and traveling to different locations AND it wasn't uncommon....:facepalm:
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but they were not reading

most were poor and illiterate


he already stated traveling was common, even yeshua is said to be a traveling teacher
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
AmbiguousGuy said:
I can't say more than I've said about that. If you don't think they needed a hero, then that's what you think.



I can't understand you here. Are you saying that Jesus took over where John left off?

That makes no sense to me. Can you expand on it?
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yes john baptised yeshua and followed Johns teachings and carried on the tradition that branched out eventually into christianity. John is very well the seed that everything started from
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
I can't say more than I've said about that. If you don't think they needed a hero, then that's what you think.
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not 6 months ago I was saying the same EXACT thing lol after countless hours of research I started getting the hang of it.

what you may not know is that self proclaimed deitys and prophets and religions including pagan versions were on every street corner and could not be avoided. Its why no one knew or cared about jesus whiel he was alive. it took time for the story to grow and gain steam through oral tradition, im sure with exaggeration and added theology as people added there own twist from agnostic to different cults ect ect ect
 
Otherright

Otherright

Otherright
outhouse said:
not 6 months ago I was saying the same EXACT thing lol after countless hours of research I started getting the hang of it.

what you may not know is that self proclaimed deitys and prophets and religions including pagan versions were on every street corner and could not be avoided. Its why no one knew or cared about jesus whiel he was alive. it took time for the story to grow and gain steam through oral tradition, im sure with exaggeration and added theology as people added there own twist from agnostic to different cults ect ect ect
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I completely agree with this statement. To what degree do you think there was exaggeration?
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
jelly said:
so people just traveled by word of mouth?
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have you seen illiterate people before??


road signs they know and most know a few words they use on a daily basis.

give them a book and there lost at the first sentance.


you dont think there were major road signs I hope. romans had markers and thats about it. with the population of people in the area im sure many people, just like now, asked how to get places.
 
J

jelly

Active Member
outhouse said:
have you seen illiterate people before??


road signs they know and most know a few words they use on a daily basis.

give them a book and there lost at the first sentance.


you dont think there were major road signs I hope. romans had markers and thats about it. with the population of people in the area im sure many people, just like now, asked how to get places.
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what questions did they ask to get from one location to another?
 
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