"The kingdom of God is within you"

[Johnlove]

Matthew 5:3 and Matthew 5:5 show that there are 2 different hopes for those that remain saved. "the Kingdom of the heavens" and "the earth."
Why do so many people forget that the earth was meant to be a paradise and that God's purpose always comes true? (Ge 1:28; Isa 55:10,11)

Where God is that is where his Children will be on the last day. And that is the kingdom of heaven.


(John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”


A person whom God has made a home of is in the kingdom of God.


(John 14:21) “Anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.”

 

[Kolibri]

Where God is that is where his Children will be on the last day. And that is the kingdom of heaven.


(John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”


A person whom God has made a home of is in the kingdom of God.


(John 14:21) “Anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.”

Curious. What translation is that? No, I am not focusing on the topic thread in my request. Or maybe I am. Not thinking that far in advance. It is just your translation's wording of John 14:23 caught my eye. It says "and make a home in him." The Greek is literally /we shall come/and/abode/beside/him/we shall make/. So I am wondering if this is perhaps a paraphrase or "free translation" Bible. It is the word "in" instead of "with" that caught my eye specifically.

 

[Kolibri]

When we consider a Kingdom in human terms we think of a government with a literal king. It has a capital and a territory that it governs. As the capital of God's government has moved from Jerusalem to Heavenly Jerusalem, the seat of government is there. But the earth will still be within the territory boundaries after Armageddon. So at that time, God can be said to be 'with' mankind. And death will be no more even here.(Da 2:44; Re 21:3-5)

Daniel 2 shows that God's kingdom replaces literal human governments. Thus it too is a government.

 

[Johnlove]

Curious. What translation is that? No, I am not focusing on the topic thread in my request. Or maybe I am. Not thinking that far in advance. It is just your translation's wording of John 14:23 caught my eye. It says "and make a home in him." The Greek is literally /we shall come/and/abode/beside/him/we shall make/. So I am wondering if this is perhaps a paraphrase or "free translation" Bible. It is the word "in" instead of "with" that caught my eye specifically.

That scripture was quoted from the New Jerusalem Bible.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I am saying that saved does not mean one will go to heaven.


Jesus told us who it is that would come to heaven with him, and it was not those who sin.


(Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”


Personally I believe saved only means one will not go to hell. So I believe that there is another place where those who chose not to live all of God’s Words will go. A place of different degrees of punishment.


(John 12:47-48) “If anyone hears my words and does not keep them faithfully, it is not I who shall condemn him, since I have come not to condemn the world, but to save the world: he who rejects me and refuses my words has his judge already: the word itself that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.”


I believe those who the words that Jesus gave us will be their Judge will never enter Heaven, but will spend eternity in a place other than hell.


(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. -------------“


I believe the above scripture tells of the place where people who do not keep God’s Word will go.

You are now making statements that are incorrect doctrine, if you don't mind my saying so. People go to Heaven or Hell. There is a redeemed Earth as our friend just mentioned, however, Heaven comes down to the new Jerusalem on the new Earth so one may go to Heaven or Hell ONLY.

 

[Kolibri]

You are now making statements that are incorrect doctrine, if you don't mind my saying so. People go to Heaven or Hell. There is a redeemed Earth as our friend just mentioned, however, Heaven comes down to the new Jerusalem on the new Earth so one may go to Heaven or Hell ONLY.

You are reminding me of the model prayer at Matthew 6:9-13. In giving an outline of things to pray for Jesus said: "Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. (or "be held sacred; be treated as holy.") Let your Kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also on earth." vs 9,10

Other Bible translations, though I have not checked them all, seem to say the same thing. God's will being done both in heaven and on earth by means of that Kingdom we are taught to pray for.

There was a time when God's will was not always being done in heaven either. Now that we are living in the last days that situation has been rectified for the heavens. Soon it will be rectified for the earth too. (Re 12:7-12).

However, as a refinement, I do not consider the New Jerusalem to come down to the earth in a physical sense. But in the sense that the Lamb and his "wife" turn their attention to the earth as they rule as kings and priests of God's Kingdom in our behalf.

Their attention is here. Even if they themselves literally stay in Heaven.

 

[BilliardsBall]

You are reminding me of the model prayer at Matthew 6:9-13. In giving an outline of things to pray for Jesus said: "Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. (or "be held sacred; be treated as holy.") Let your Kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also on earth." vs 9,10

Other Bible translations, though I have not checked them all, seem to say the same thing. God's will being done both in heaven and on earth by means of that Kingdom we are taught to pray for.

There was a time when God's will was not always being done in heaven either. Now that we are living in the last days that situation has been rectified for the heavens. Soon it will be rectified for the earth too. (Re 12:7-12).

However, as a refinement, I do not consider the New Jerusalem to come down to the earth in a physical sense. But in the sense that the Lamb and his "wife" turn their attention to the earth as they rule as kings and priests of God's Kingdom in our behalf.

Their attention is here. Even if they themselves literally stay in Heaven.

Thank you, but:

"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, beautifully dressed for her husband." - Revelation 21-1:2

 

[Johnlove]

You are now making statements that are incorrect doctrine, if you don't mind my saying so. People go to Heaven or Hell. There is a redeemed Earth as our friend just mentioned, however, Heaven comes down to the new Jerusalem on the new Earth so one may go to Heaven or Hell ONLY.

Show me the scripture that tells us there is only Heaven or Hell.

 

[Kolibri]

Thank you, but:

"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, beautifully dressed for her husband." - Revelation 21-1:2

My Bible cross references "New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God" with Re 3:12 which basically says the same thing.

Yet we are reminded in Re 1:1 that much of this Book, which is a series of visions, was presented "in signs". So either the coming down to the earth is literal or it is figurative. Because "her husband" is with his Father and has prepared "many dwelling places" there with his Father, I have been convinced that the coming down to earth is figurative. (John 14:12) Much like the next verse in Rev 21, when it says God will be "with mankind".

"With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: 'Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.'" - Re 21:3,4

Is God being with us possible in a physical sense? No. Exodus 33:20 tells us no man can see God yet live. And John 4:24 says "God is a Spirit." But by his friendship, he is still very much close to/"with" us.
"Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you." - James 4:8a

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Thank you, but:
"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, beautifully dressed for her husband." - Revelation 21-1:2

First of all, we know Revelation is written in very-vivid word pictures.
The ' sea ' mentioned in verse 1 is Not a literal sea or ocean being no more, but rather the ' wicked sea of restless humanity ' as being or ending up as No more - Please notice Isaiah 57:20; Psalm 72:8
Just as the ' water ' of Revelation 17 vs 1,15 represents Not literal water but people.

Ancient Jerusalem was the seat of government. So, New Jerusalem would be the seat of government.
Since Jerusalem ' above ' is mother - Galatians 4:26 - her location is: heaven.
As the Christian congregation is headed or governed by Christ today located in heaven, then the government does Not have to literally come down to earth.

Please notice the 3 heavens and the 3 earths of 2nd Peter 3 vs 5,7,13

The 1st heavens and earth are the OLD of Noah's day

The 2nd heavens and earth are the NOW or our day since Noah's day.

The 3rd heavens and earth are the NEW or righteous heavens ruling over earth, or over righteous earthy society starting with Jesus' coming 1000-year kingdom rulership over earth.

The former or wicked heavens - Rev. 20:11; Isaiah 65:17; 66:22 - governmental rulership under Satan will be gone from earth forever.

 

[BilliardsBall]

My Bible cross references "New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God" with Re 3:12 which basically says the same thing.

Yet we are reminded in Re 1:1 that much of this Book, which is a series of visions, was presented "in signs". So either the coming down to the earth is literal or it is figurative. Because "her husband" is with his Father and has prepared "many dwelling places" there with his Father, I have been convinced that the coming down to earth is figurative. (John 14:12) Much like the next verse in Rev 21, when it says God will be "with mankind".

"With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: 'Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.'" - Re 21:3,4

Is God being with us possible in a physical sense? No. Exodus 33:20 tells us no man can see God yet live. And John 4:24 says "God is a Spirit." But by his friendship, he is still very much close to/"with" us.
"Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you." - James 4:8a

Which is it? Will God Himself be with them or not?

 

[BilliardsBall]

First of all, we know Revelation is written in very-vivid word pictures.
The ' sea ' mentioned in verse 1 is Not a literal sea or ocean being no more, but rather the ' wicked sea of restless humanity ' as being or ending up as No more - Please notice Isaiah 57:20; Psalm 72:8
Just as the ' water ' of Revelation 17 vs 1,15 represents Not literal water but people.

Ancient Jerusalem was the seat of government. So, New Jerusalem would be the seat of government.
Since Jerusalem ' above ' is mother - Galatians 4:26 - her location is: heaven.
As the Christian congregation is headed or governed by Christ today located in heaven, then the government does Not have to literally come down to earth.

Please notice the 3 heavens and the 3 earths of 2nd Peter 3 vs 5,7,13

The 1st heavens and earth are the OLD of Noah's day

The 2nd heavens and earth are the NOW or our day since Noah's day.

The 3rd heavens and earth are the NEW or righteous heavens ruling over earth, or over righteous earthy society starting with Jesus' coming 1000-year kingdom rulership over earth.

The former or wicked heavens - Rev. 20:11; Isaiah 65:17; 66:22 - governmental rulership under Satan will be gone from earth forever.

The three heavens of the Bible are 1) our atmosphere as in "the birds of Heaven" 2) the universe as in "the heavens declare the glory of God" and 3) Heaven where God dwells and which will touch the redeemed Earth in that day.

The concepts that only some believers get to a third Heaven are cultic and not biblical. Revelation 3 says "Just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on His throne, whoever overcomes will sit with me..." so that the saved will--yes, wild, I know--sit with Jesus on the very throne of God. What a king! What a Father! Mormon and Witness doctrine, etc. on these issues is ignoring the plain text of Revelation 3 and anyone who says Revelation is just "pictures" and not literal does not understand, likely, the rest of prophecy. 1/3 of the Bible is prophecy!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The three heavens of the Bible are 1) our atmosphere as in "the birds of Heaven" 2) the universe as in "the heavens declare the glory of God" and 3) Heaven where God dwells and which will touch the redeemed Earth in that day.
The concepts that only some believers get to a third Heaven are cultic and not biblical. Revelation 3 says "Just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on His throne, whoever overcomes will sit with me..." so that the saved will--yes, wild, I know--sit with Jesus on the very throne of God. What a king! What a Father! Mormon and Witness doctrine, etc. on these issues is ignoring the plain text of Revelation 3 and anyone who says Revelation is just "pictures" and not literal does not understand, likely, the rest of prophecy. 1/3 of the Bible is prophecy!

Thank you for your ^above ^ reply. I was referring to the 3 heavens and 3 earths of 2nd Peter chapter 3

The ' heavens' in Scripture apply to, or represent, God's or man's rulership such as at Daniel 4 vs 20-22, 25,26
Some of men's rulerships have towered over people as the heavens are above us.
Please also notice Isaiah 14:12-14 that Babylonian dynasty lifted it ruling throne above the stars of God in effect exalting itself as heaven high.

The spiritual heavens is where God resides - Isaiah 57:15; 1st Kings 8:49 - and is the angelic dwelling place.

The mid-heavens or region within earth's atmosphere is where the birds fly. The ' blue vault ' or the sky above us - Job 37:18

The ' flood gates of heaven '- Genesis 8:2 - was the waters suspended above earth's expanse which were stopped up before the Flood.

The ' army of the heavens ' is outer space. - Deut. 4:19; Isaiah 13:10; Job 38:33; Jeremiah 33:25

The ' heavens of the heavens ' - Deut. 10:14; Neh. 9:6; 1st Kings 8:27; Psalm 148:13; Isaiah 40:12

Then there is the ' new heavens '. By Jesus - 2nd Peter 3:4 - relates to Jesus as Messiah and King or God's kingdom ruling over his subjects - Psalm 72:8 - over the new or cleansed earth.

The former or corrupted first heavens - man's corrupted rulership - Rev. 20:11; 21:1 - passes away when Jesus has Satan abyssed.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Jesus said those who do the will of God are his brothers and sisters. Brothers and sisters are children of someone. Surely God expects everyone to do God's will on the Earth as Man is in God's image. So "the joint-heirs of Christ" are not God's only earthly children. OK?

First of all, those of Luke 12:32 and John 10:16 are all children of God, so to speak.

The joint-heirs are earthly children but they are the ones called to rule in heaven with Christ for a thousands years - Rev. 20:6
The joint-heirs are also the ' brothers ' of Matthew 25:40 and Luke 12:32
Whereas the ' sheep ' of verses 32,37 the ' other sheep ' of John 10:16 who are alive on earth, and can remain alive on earth, right into Jesus' coming 1000-year rule over earth. Those spiritual ' bros. and sisters ' of verse 40 are the ones resurrected to heavenly life.
The spiritual ' sheep ' alive on earth do Not need a resurrection because they are Not dead at the soon coming ' time of separation ' - Matthew 25 vs 31,32 - but can come through the coming great tribulation of Rev. 7:14 to continue living on earth during Jesus millennium-long day of ruling over earth, or over earthly subjects of God's kingdom - Psalm 72:8

 

[URAVIP2ME]

God is in everything and we, as humans, have the capacity to bring about what Jesus talked about in the Bible. Heaven is not necessarily a place to live for eternity, it can be that right here, right now.

Heaven is according to Scripture: God's location or dwelling place. When Adam and Eve were created they were Not in heaven, but in the paradisaic Garden of Eden on earth. Earth was the place to live for eternity right then and there, right now, and right into the eternal future starting with Jesus' 1000-year kingdom rule over earth. We are nearing the coming ' time of separation ' on earth of Matthew 25 vs 31,32 when the righteous sheep-like ones can remain alive on earth, and keep right on living on earth when Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill.

When we pray that God's will be done on earth as in heaven, then we are praying those some wonderful conditions that exist in heaven also come to exist on earth. Such as: No one gets sick in heaven and No one goes to heaven to die in heaven. So, when God's will, or God's purpose, is done on earth then there will be No sickness on earth and No more death on earth. Our last enemy ' death ' will be brought to nothing - 1st Cor. 15:26; Isaiah 25:8, 33:24; Rev. 21:4,5; 22:2

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Okay. What does "saved" mean and why is it something different than "going to Heaven"? Are you saying those in Acts were saved but could lose their salvation?

Any thoughts on Hebrews 6 vs 4-6 ?
Any thoughts on Matthew 24: 13 ?
Where are the ' sheep ' of Matthew 25 vs 31,32,37 saved ?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Matthew 5:3 and Matthew 5:5 show that there are 2 different hopes for those that remain saved. "the Kingdom of the heavens" and "the earth."
Why do so many people forget that the earth was meant to be a paradise and that God's purpose always comes true?
(Ge 1:28; Isa 55:10,11)

Good question ^above ^.
Is it ' forget ' or rather that most were never taught about the earth abides forever - Ecclesiastes 1:4 B ?
Never taught that God created the earth to be inhabited - Isaiah 45:12,18
Never taught the righteous will live on earth forever - Psalm 37:11,29

 

[Katzpur]

Mormon and Witness doctrine, etc. on these issues is ignoring the plain text of Revelation 3...

It just blows my mind how you think you know so much about Mormonism. What do you think Mormons believe about Revelation 3?

 

[Kolibri]

The concepts that only some believers get to a third Heaven are cultic and not biblical. Revelation 3 says "Just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on His throne, whoever overcomes will sit with me..." so that the saved will--yes, wild, I know--sit with Jesus on the very throne of God. What a king! What a Father! Mormon and Witness doctrine, etc. on these issues is ignoring the plain text of Revelation 3 and anyone who says Revelation is just "pictures" and not literal does not understand, likely, the rest of prophecy. 1/3 of the Bible is prophecy!

As @URAVIP2ME mentioned, the 3 heavens and earth was in reference to 2 Peter 3 reference to a "new heavens and a new earth" specifically. The account there showed a change of governments and human society. One before the Deluge, one now, and one after God's Kingdom removes the current human governments.

In no way do we, Jehovah's Witnesses, look to layers of heaven. Even Paul's statement of "the third heaven" at 2 Corinthians 12:2, is understood, not as a layer of heaven, but as a state of joyous rapture - to which he lost his orientation as to what was reality and what was vision.

When Jesus said "to the one who conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, just as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne," to us it means just that. Those of Jesus' 'little flock' will be kings with him. (Luke 12:32).

 

[BilliardsBall]

Mormons and Witnesses have differing views. I'm a member of neither group but have trusted Jesus Christ as Savior. Where will I be after death, please?

Thanks.