The Koran is the Word of God? How do we know this?

[kai]

Thats y the reference is given, so ppl can check by themselves. Dont take my words, do check it by urself.

well did you use an Arabic Quran to count them? i cant read Arabic so i am counted out Lol, there's a lot there, if you counted it yourself i would say well done .

 

[England my lionheart]

thn uve to enrol in school again and learn maths take some Adol for ur dizzines dear.
One more thing friends, some predictions are also mentioned, like after the downfalll of Rome by Persians, it was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) that Romans will rise again, and coz of this revelation, a bet was place between Abu-Bakr (Companion of Prophet), and one non-muslim, and the time was given as 10 yrs, coz no sign was there of romans to rise again, but within 10yrs, Romans came bak strongly, and were powerful again.
Romans were not friends of muslims, neither they were muslims, but stilll the predictio and sympathy was shown to them.

So have you personally checked it then? can you read Arabic? as we all know Arabic does'nt translate well into Engish,in fact i have seen this before and just like the number 19 miracle its nonsense.

 

[YmirGF]

I told already, its not my responsibility to make ppl accept, my duty is to just deliver the message, coz for illl ppl, its already mentioned, even they see clear proof, their arrogance won't let them accept the truth. Even I give example of Pulsar or watever, ur mind will be in darkness always

Dimness is somewhat preferable to delusion.

 

[syberpriend]

well did you use an Arabic Quran to count them? i cant read Arabic so i am counted out Lol, there's a lot there, if you counted it yourself i would say well done .

As its mentioned, day is refered to Yawm in arabic, so the counting should be also in arabic, coz it was revealed in arabic.
U can do simple google search, maybe u can find more refrences.
Have a good day friend. Its night here, time for me to sleep

 

[syberpriend]

So have you personally checked it then? can you read Arabic? as we all know Arabic does'nt translate well into Engish,in fact i have seen this before and just like the number 19 miracle its nonsense.

try in english translation, atleast u can get close to this number , wats about the number 19 miracle, can i know please?

 

[syberpriend]

Dimness is somewhat preferable to delusion.

English is not my native language, I would request if u can use simple humans language to make eevery1 understand. We know u got too many A'ss in ur school

 

[Dezzie]

Greetings Dezzie, I don't believe we have met.

Yes... can't say I have actually talked to you before on here. I've also been away from the forums for a long time. I needed a break to get my head straight.

Claims as to "what God allegedly wants" from us have always struck me as being little more than the arrogance of assumed authority.

I hope this isn't you implying that I am the arrogant one.

Comparing the Bible with the Qur'an, is not particularly wise as they are not viewed in the same way. By and large, the Bible is not seen to be the "Word of God". Yes, some Christians believe it is, but they are in the distinct minority. The Qur'an is seen by an overwhelming number of Muslims as being "The Word of God". Apples and oranges. As to why people continually ask if they are true is likely because the believers are steadily chanting the mantra which relentlessly invites the question. Is this hard to understand?

Well... maybe to some people they are not viewed in the same way... they still speak of many of the same stories and people. Yes... man wrote the text in these books. Supposedly God told them these things. Technically, that would make many of the stories, words of God. Maybe these men were only a bunch of crazies... How are any of us to tell? Maybe there isn't just ONE true religion... maybe they all stemmed from the same place... maybe various types of people went separate ways, taking their interpretations with them. Only History has the answers. It's too bad that we are only from this day and age. I'm sure we could learn a whole lot if we could travel back in time. We could probably learn the truth to this matter.

Lovely. If you have indeed educated yourself on these topics then you will undoubtedly recognize just how flimsy the "evidence" for god is and may well appreciate why many are not impressed by fallacious appeals to faith, that are conveniently used to fill in the gaps of understanding.

Ah... notice... I never said the evidence wasn't flimsy. You must have missed that. The evidence of God being real IS extremely flimsy in this day and age. Perhaps back then when the books were written, the evidence was not. One of the things I always wished we had were the extremely old libraries that got burnt to the ground. I am sure those History books were quite insightful.

Would people's lives be any less rich if religion was removed from their beliefs structures? You make it sound as if religion is an essential quality. That's a bit rich.

Again... I never said religion was an essential quality of life either. If I felt that way, I would have said those words. I am definitely not an extremely religious person TRUST ME. I don't go day-by-day worshiping like many other people do... I'm only trying to make both sides of the story noticeable and truthful. No one can really say whether or not God is real... BUT... no one can say that God is 100% fake either. I guess if God wanted to prove Himself to us, He would make himself known and come down before us. I mainly believe in a God because of all the wonderful things that have happened to me in my life. I would rather thank "something" if He is not in existence, than NOT to thank God when He is actually there.

Heaven forbid that the religious actually lean critical thinking skills.

What does this mean exactly It doesn't seem like a nice way to put a statement. One thing I never understood is why Religion needs to create hatred in the world. How and why could these problems arise?

This strikes me as an almost proverbial head in the sand approach. I'd say that if god really existed he would make it possible for us to know him, so that we would not need to rely on the flimsy support of faith. I guess that is asking a lot though.

Nice... so apparently my head is in the sand. More like mud over here though... there's not too much free sand to stick my head into. I hate rain. haha I do agree with you though. If God wanted to be noticed, He would show us the real Him... especially in times of need.

 

[YmirGF]

I hope this isn't you implying that I am the arrogant one.

Hardly, Dezzie. No need to take it personally unless, of course, you place yourself in the camp of the religious.

Well... maybe to some people they are not viewed in the same way... they still speak of many of the same stories and people. Yes... man wrote the text in these books. Supposedly God told them these things. Technically, that would make many of the stories, words of God. Maybe these men were only a bunch of crazies... How are any of us to tell? Maybe there isn't just ONE true religion... maybe they all stemmed from the same place... maybe various types of people went separate ways, taking their interpretations with them. Only History has the answers. It's too bad that we are only from this day and age. I'm sure we could learn a whole lot if we could travel back in time. We could probably learn the truth to this matter.

I hear what you are saying. The point is that it is because we cannot tell, that we should take these works with more than a few grains of salt. I'm not saying we should toss them on the scrapheap, but I am suggesting that perhaps, just perhaps, that many are reading far more into these texts than is healthy. In my short 53 years on the planet, I have not noticed that reading these texts gives any mortal a "leg up" on their fellow human animal. Rather, more often than not, these texts are utilized to foster unproductive prejudices and add to the perception that one needs protection from a hostile universe that is out to get them. Brotherly love is quite sadly, almost an afterthought.

Ah... notice... I never said the evidence wasn't flimsy. You must have missed that.

No, I didn't miss it. My comment was meant in spite of your assertion actually.

The evidence of God being real IS extremely flimsy in this day and age. Perhaps back then when the books were written, the evidence was not. One of the things I always wished we had were the extremely old libraries that got burnt to the ground. I am sure those History books were quite insightful.

The thing is, mooning over what may have been isn't terribly productive, as you are still left with books that are like patches of weeds that have choked off any remaining flowers to be found therein.

Again... I never said religion was an essential quality of life either. If I felt that way, I would have said those words. I am definitely not an extremely religious person TRUST ME. I don't go day-by-day worshiping like many other people do...

I recognize that, hence I used the qualifier "you make it seem".

I'm only trying to make both sides of the story noticeable and truthful.

Why is that? It is equally possible that both books are quite wrong, in fact, in all probability they are.

No one can really say whether or not God is real... BUT... no one can say that God is 100% fake either.

Actually, people can say and do say whatever they like. It's proving what they say that is the difficulty. Evidence abounds in this very thread of what I am talking about. In this thread, Muslims have repeatedly demonstrated how far they are prepared to go to validate their faith. Though their arguments do prove that they have faith, they rarely prove anything else. One would expect that the righteous would have better ammunition to use against non-believers - if the object of their belief was, in fact, true. Perhaps I am missing something though.

I guess if God wanted to prove Himself to us, He would make himself known and come down before us. I mainly believe in a God because of all the wonderful things that have happened to me in my life. I would rather thank "something" if He is not in existence, than NOT to thank God when He is actually there.

I understand, but don't you think an all knowing being would be more than inclined to cut you some slack? In all seriousness, people are so hung up on appearing to be ingrates for the wonders that "god" has supposedly showered them with, all the while not recognizing that those very things are far more likely to be the results of their own actions. Why is it so wrong for people to thank themselves and accept responsibility for their actions?

What does this mean exactly It doesn't seem like a nice way to put a statement. One thing I never understood is why Religion needs to create hatred in the world. How and why could these problems arise?

Well, if you are not amoung the religious the statement does not apply to you. Religion creates hatred because it assumes to have the answers to questions that do not have any verifiable answers. Religion also does not generally exhort the believer to find their own answers. A twist on this is within Islam in that Muhammad told his followers to seek knowledge. The problem was that that knowledge could never go beyond what he himself told them or what had been revealed in the Qur'an. Anything that is at variance is deemed to be misguided and untrue.

Nice... so apparently my head is in the sand. More like mud over here though... there's not too much free sand to stick my head into. I hate rain. haha I do agree with you though. If God wanted to be noticed, He would show us the real Him... especially in times of need.

Well, I am sorry if I come across a tad bit harsh. You did present a rather compelling target. The thing is that I think that people fall into a very deep hole when they compare Islam to any other religion. It simply gives Islam more credit than it is due for starters. If anything, Islam is a personality cult revolving around Muhammad, as there is no other source that directly supports his version of events.

 

[dragynfly0515]

OK, I've heard it way too many times, and I haven't heard a convincing argument yet. So, please bring it on. Where is this "proof" that the Qur'an is the word of God?

Herein lies the problem with all revealed religions. You have to take somebody's word that they spoke to God and they have a message from him. I fell for that a couple of times, then finally decided to think for myself.

:candle:
Crys

 

[Sententia]

Herein lies the problem with all revealed religions. You have to take somebody's word that they spoke to God and they have a message from him. I fell for that a couple of times, then finally decided to think for myself.

:candle:
Crys

Even though its an old trick it keeps working and you don't neccesarily have to talk to a god... it could be an angel (gabriel or moroni) speaking for god or a superior alien race (The spirit of which lives in you and once you clear your mind you can release your inner alien spirit). [lientology]

Glad you decided to choose thought and reason.

 

[kai]

As its mentioned, day is refered to Yawm in arabic, so the counting should be also in arabic, coz it was revealed in arabic.
U can do simple google search, maybe u can find more refrences.
Have a good day friend. Its night here, time for me to sleep

maybe you could just answer my little question please? pretty please with sugar on top--did you count them yourself?

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

For me, I believe it as word of God, so I dont need to perform any test or to get any proof, its u who is not believing, so u should give some reason for not accepting it, by providing authentic and perfect proof for disaproving

You are mistaken. It was not me who posted here first about supposed correctness of Quran and Islam trying to "convince" people. It was you
What you believe in is not relevant for me. Thats your choice and i see no sense in trying to convince you of something you wont ever be convinced (believers happen to be close minded when it comes to evidence against their beliefs)

But if you want to tell us that Islam is correct (and defacto you did try that above) then it is YOUR task to provide evidence.

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

Well... from what I have experienced and from what I have read, Religion is all in Faith. From what I originally got from Religion is, God is testing those who still carry on their beliefs no matter what other "Scientific Explanations" may arise. Then people ask, "but how do we know the Bible is true? How do we know the Qur'an is true?" Why does it matter?

Well why do we ask? I for once have a simple problem. I am interested in facts and truth. Especially when it comes to a matter so "important" like religion. Supposed one religion is true and if you dont believe it you end up in an eternal hell. Is then the question whether this or that religion is true not a fair and important one?
If you consider that many religions expect many many daily things from you and specific morals, some of which are actually rather questionable... is then the question what is right and wrong so strange?

Do you not ask yourself about the rights and wrongs of commands or advices others give you?

Which brings me to this....

I believe that IF there is an actual God... he wants us to have Faith in him no matter what proof is available to us.

Well IF the question of truth carries such importants as to bring you eternally in hell if you choose wrongly, and if you have many to choose from... would you then not think that a loving God who looks after us would give us SOME hint as to which one is correct? You think he sits around and expects us to blindly have faith in the right religion without actually knowing which one it is?

 

[syberpriend]

maybe you could just answer my little question please? pretty please with sugar on top--did you count them yourself?

Yes. if u know, Quran is learnt completly bby many of muslims, they know each verse, from where ever u quote it, its not a bit task the thing u ask for us to reply

 

[syberpriend]

You are mistaken. It was not me who posted here first about supposed correctness of Quran and Islam trying to "convince" people. It was you
What you believe in is not relevant for me. Thats your choice and i see no sense in trying to convince you of something you wont ever be convinced (believers happen to be close minded when it comes to evidence against their beliefs)

But if you want to tell us that Islam is correct (and defacto you did try that above) then it is YOUR task to provide evidence.

If u want to know, if its good religion or bad, means good way of life given to mankind or wrong way of life, give me any un-ethical, or un-human act given by Islamic law, which is harmful for society, so we can disuss.

 

[kai]

Yes. if u know, Quran is learnt completly bby many of muslims, they know each verse, from where ever u quote it, its not a bit task the thing u ask for us to reply

is that a yes ? then you read quranic arabic?

 

[syberpriend]

is that a yes ? then you read quranic arabic?

ofcourse, muslim have to read quran in arabic, in prayers, and while reciting as well, wats wrong in this?

 

[kai]

ofcourse, muslim have to read quran in arabic, in prayers, and while reciting as well, wats wrong in this?

Nothings wrong with that, i just wanted to know if you counted all your statistics yourself and didnt just copy and paste it from a website.

 

[syberpriend]

Nothings wrong with that, i just wanted to know if you counted all your statistics yourself and didnt just copy and paste it from a website.

Thanks, I suppose u got a copy of Quran as well, have u read it?

 

[kai]

Thanks, I suppose u got a copy of Quran as well, have u read it?

yes i have the Koran translated from the Arabic by J.M.Rodwell, i have read it ,and read parts of it quite often.