Response: Likewise.
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The Koran is the Word of God? How do we know this?
- Thread starter MSizer
- Start date
Response: Likewise.
EtuMalku
Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
oops it's me again . . . LOL!
(Koran 4:82)
Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)?
Had it been from other than Allah, they would
surely have found therein much discrepancy.
According to the Muslims the Koran contains the words of God. Koran is to be read as if God Himself had spoken these words stated in it. It is important to emphasize this point because if Koran is the word of God then it should not contain any errors and it should hold true for all times. However, such is not the case.
First, we will see how some of the verses in the Koran itself show clearly that these words were obviously spoken by Mohammed and Not God.
The Opening Sura Fatihah:
(Koran 1:1-7)
In the name of the Merciful and Compassionate God.
Praise belongs to God,
The Lord of the worlds, the merciful, the
compassionate, the ruler of the day of
the day of judgement! Thee we serve and Thee
we ask for aid. Guide us in the right path,
the path of those Thou art gracious to;
not to those Thou art wroth with, nor of
those who err.
These words are clearly addressed to God, in the form of a prayer. They are Mohamed's words of praise to God, asking for God's help and guidance. Some Muslim compilers conveniently add the imperative "say" in the English translation of the Koran at the beginning of the sura to remove this difficulty. This imperative form of the word "say" occurs at least 350 times in the Koran, and its obvious that this word has, in fact, been inserted by later compilers of the Koran to remove countless similarly embarrassing difficulties. Thus, we have direct evidence that the Koran starts out with the words of Mohammad.
(Koran 6:114)
Should I seek other judge than God, when
it is He who has sent down to you, the
distinguishing book (Koran)?
Those words are not spoken by God but Mohammed himself. Yusuf Ali in his translation adds at the beginning of the sentence "say", which is not there in the original Arabic and he does so without comment or footnote.
How Many Days Did It Take To Create Heavens And Earth?
(Koran 7:54)
Your guardian-Lord is Allah. Who created the heavens and the earth in SIX Days...
(Koran 10:3)
Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and the earth in SIX Days...
(Koran 11:7)
He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in SIX days...
(Koran 25:29)
He Who created the heavens And the earth and all that is between, in SIX days...
The above verses clearly state that God created the heaven and the earth in 6 days. But the verses stated below contradict the above verses and imply that it took God 8 days to create the heaven and the earth. Read carefully and add up the numbers.
(Koran 41:9)
Is it that ye Deny Him who created the earth in TWO days?...
(Koran 41:10)
He set on the (earth). Mountains standing firm,
high above it, and bestowed blessings on the
earth, and measured therein all things to
give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR days...
(Koran 41:12)
So He completed them as seven firmaments in TWO days and...
Do the math: 2(for earth) + 4(for nourishment) + 2(for heavens) = 8 NOT 6
That's all for now!
(Koran 4:82)
Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)?
Had it been from other than Allah, they would
surely have found therein much discrepancy.
According to the Muslims the Koran contains the words of God. Koran is to be read as if God Himself had spoken these words stated in it. It is important to emphasize this point because if Koran is the word of God then it should not contain any errors and it should hold true for all times. However, such is not the case.
First, we will see how some of the verses in the Koran itself show clearly that these words were obviously spoken by Mohammed and Not God.
The Opening Sura Fatihah:
(Koran 1:1-7)
In the name of the Merciful and Compassionate God.
Praise belongs to God,
The Lord of the worlds, the merciful, the
compassionate, the ruler of the day of
the day of judgement! Thee we serve and Thee
we ask for aid. Guide us in the right path,
the path of those Thou art gracious to;
not to those Thou art wroth with, nor of
those who err.
These words are clearly addressed to God, in the form of a prayer. They are Mohamed's words of praise to God, asking for God's help and guidance. Some Muslim compilers conveniently add the imperative "say" in the English translation of the Koran at the beginning of the sura to remove this difficulty. This imperative form of the word "say" occurs at least 350 times in the Koran, and its obvious that this word has, in fact, been inserted by later compilers of the Koran to remove countless similarly embarrassing difficulties. Thus, we have direct evidence that the Koran starts out with the words of Mohammad.
(Koran 6:114)
Should I seek other judge than God, when
it is He who has sent down to you, the
distinguishing book (Koran)?
Those words are not spoken by God but Mohammed himself. Yusuf Ali in his translation adds at the beginning of the sentence "say", which is not there in the original Arabic and he does so without comment or footnote.
How Many Days Did It Take To Create Heavens And Earth?
(Koran 7:54)
Your guardian-Lord is Allah. Who created the heavens and the earth in SIX Days...
(Koran 10:3)
Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and the earth in SIX Days...
(Koran 11:7)
He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in SIX days...
(Koran 25:29)
He Who created the heavens And the earth and all that is between, in SIX days...
The above verses clearly state that God created the heaven and the earth in 6 days. But the verses stated below contradict the above verses and imply that it took God 8 days to create the heaven and the earth. Read carefully and add up the numbers.
(Koran 41:9)
Is it that ye Deny Him who created the earth in TWO days?...
(Koran 41:10)
He set on the (earth). Mountains standing firm,
high above it, and bestowed blessings on the
earth, and measured therein all things to
give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR days...
(Koran 41:12)
So He completed them as seven firmaments in TWO days and...
Do the math: 2(for earth) + 4(for nourishment) + 2(for heavens) = 8 NOT 6
That's all for now!
But 4.82 doesn't prove anything, as many books after the Qur'an have matched it, and even surpassed it, in terms of inspiration and wisdom. The people who wrote said books were probably not consciously trying to meet the challenge at all.
No one ever claimed that they were; just that they were better than the Qur'an.
McBell
Unbound
I guess I will have to wait for a Muslim with at least a double digit IQ to show up in the thread.
Response: Adressing the first part, all that is presented is a statement saying that it's not the word of Allah, but no proof. So there's really no need to address it. As for the contridiction, verse 11 of ch.41 says,
"Moreover, He turned to the heaven, while it was something like smoke, and said to it and the earth; Come ye both of you in obedience, willingly or unwillingly. They said, We come willingly."
The arabic word, "thumma" also means, moreover, or simultaneously. So the verse means that the heavens were created simultaneously with the earth. So doing the math, 4+2 equals 6. No contridiction.
Response: But saying so is not proof that it is so.
McBell
Unbound
Here's the truth.
Whether or not a book or text can surpass the Qur'an is strictly opinion. I, myself, have read many books that in my opinion far, far surpass the Qur'an. However, that is my personal opinion and therefore cannot be proven. (Nor is it required that you hold them.)
Therefore 4:82 is useless in proving the Qur'an's authenticity to being the Word of God to me, because I already have read many books and texts that I believe are better than it.
Response: To the contrary, your statement that it is an opinion is strictly an opinion. If it was possible to produce a chapter like the qur'an, you would have proven so by now. Your inability to do so is proof enough that the qur'an is from Allah and only confirms your denial. I've already stated that verse 4:82 does not alone prove the qur'an to be the word of Allah. So your persistancy to use it to prove your point is illogical as well.
Here's one of my books that I believe surpasses the Qur'an:
Jurassic Park by Michael Crichton.
Or, if you wanted a book that talk about God,
Dancing with Siva, by Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami. (...I will not require that you try pronouncing that.) This book doesn't far surpass the Qur'an, but I do think it's better for me in my spiritual growth.
Last edited:
kai
ragamuffin
what if your faith prevents you from forming an opinion? Muslims have already been told that there is no equal to a surah, as this is in the Quran the unalterable word of god, once you accept this you are prevented from forming an objective opinion. so opinions dont really come into it, for Muslims its all done and dusted.
kai
ragamuffin
ThereIsNoSpoon
Active Member
Oh folks that really is a stupid story.
As I said before the challenge was already MET.
I have myself created verses in arabic and they WERE accepted by muslims IF those muslims had not memorized the quran completely and thought it was from within the book.
IF they knew the quran and thus knew that my verses were not quranic then they allways rejected them.
I see this as clear indication that the challenge is senseless. It CANT possibly be met generally. There is no objective set of indicators by which one could neutrally (without influence of his own religion) judge any verses.
As I said before the challenge was already MET.
I have myself created verses in arabic and they WERE accepted by muslims IF those muslims had not memorized the quran completely and thought it was from within the book.
IF they knew the quran and thus knew that my verses were not quranic then they allways rejected them.
I see this as clear indication that the challenge is senseless. It CANT possibly be met generally. There is no objective set of indicators by which one could neutrally (without influence of his own religion) judge any verses.
McBell
Unbound
But don't you see...
That just PROVES that the koran is from Allah himself!!!!!
Yes, this post is sarcasm