The Last Supper mocked in Paris?

[Absolutely Frank]

It seems to be a thing about the Olympics and other major sporting events that homeless and 'poor areas' are cleared to build stadiums.
I don't know about 'offended' but I'd be fairly angry about this sort of thing without adequate compensation.

So am I a snowflake or no for finding offense in the opening ceremonies?

 

[Koldo]

The BSG and Lost photos are a homage to a famous painting - what happen at the opening donkey show was a cartoonish mockery of a very sacred historical event regarding one of the most important religious figures of all time who just happens to highly regarded amongst millions of people of different faiths and creeds.

Huh?
Which, even if true, pales in comparison to the actual social issues you brought up in a former post of yours... To the point you shouldn't even be mentioning this perceived mockery as an issue. Because that is not the problem.

 

[LuisDantas]

I have to disagree on the point about hatred, at least based on the rising tide of far-right anti-Muslim narratives in French politics. For years, especially under Macron, some of the French government's rhetoric toward Islam and expressions thereof has been, in my opinion, nothing short of incendiary and reckless. I don't think a secular government has any business legislating what women can or can't wear at the beach, and I see no reason to believe that France is such a unique case that it can't allow burkinis and religious symbols in public like many other developed countries do.

Many people, including feminists, both from France and other countries have pointed out the inconsistency and irony in the French government's claims to stand for secularism, freedom, and women's rights (Macron has previously claimed to be a feminist, for instance) while cracking down on Islamic clothing even if women voluntarily choose to wear it. I think this cartoon sums up the double standards pretty well:

I fear that, much as I admire you, we are in something of a collision course on this sort of subject matter.

For good and definitely for worse, Islam is remarkable, unique even. It has consistently caused ill feelings and all-out armed hostilities in plenty of communities for several centuries. That is not a coincidence, it is not a streak of accidental misfortune... and it is not the fault of those who would rather challenge Islam than subject to its rather formidably unreasonable expectations.

 

[Altfish]

So am I a snowflake or no for finding offense in the opening ceremonies?

If you want to be a snowflake, you can be.

 

[LuisDantas]

Was there a point that you had to make by bringing up Dionysus?

Dionysus was a central figure of the scene that apparently offended so many Christians.

I realize that not all pictures and videos may have made that apparent, but he was represented there. Easily recognizable by the food around him, his limited clothing, and his blue skin.

You may disagree, but I certainly find that fact significant and a strong indication that the intent was never to make much of a reference to depictions of the Last Supper of the Gospels.

 

[ChristineM]

I have to somewhat disagree, at least when it comes to certain contexts, on the point about hatred, partially but not exclusively based on the rising tide of far-right anti-Muslim narratives in French politics. For years, especially under Macron, some of the French government's rhetoric toward Islam and expressions thereof has been, in my opinion, nothing short of incendiary and reckless. I don't think a secular government has any business legislating what women can or can't wear at the beach, and I see no reason to believe that France is such a unique case that it can't allow burkinis and religious symbols in public like many other developed countries do.

Many people, including feminists, both from France and other countries have pointed out the inconsistency and irony in the French government's claims to stand for secularism, freedom, and women's rights (Macron has previously claimed to be a feminist, for instance) while cracking down on Islamic clothing even if women voluntarily choose to wear it. I think this cartoon sums up the double standards pretty well:

Of course the far right is a cess pit of hatred but they are not the ones making the laws, yet at least.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I fear that, much as I admire you, we are in something of a collision course on this sort of subject matter.

I appreciate the kind words (regarding the part I highlighted). Thanks!

I agree that we have different views on this. My views on it have significantly changed over the years, more than once, so I can also see where some of the other viewpoints on it are coming from.

For good and definitely for worse, Islam is remarkable, unique even. It has consistently caused ill feelings and all-out armed hostilities in plenty of communities for several centuries. That is not a coincidence, it is not a streak of accidental misfortune... and it is not the fault of those who would rather challenge Islam than subject to its rather formidably unreasonable expectations.

That's a huge and complicated subject on its own, for sure. I would get into it, although I don't think I could do that here without going too far off topic. In a nutshell, though, I think the French government could handle laws regarding certain religious matters in a less heavy-handed way, which I think would be better for promoting tolerance and coexistence. I believe this applies not just to Islam (although it seems to me to have been especially put under a magnifying glass in France in recent years) but to all other religions.

 

[Tomef]

So it only gets to make the plight of the homeless worse by tucking them away in the basement because the guest are here

Seems like homeless Parisians have been put in temporary housing on the outskirts of the city. Might be some of them will be housed at the end of the games, maybe not. Homelessness is a pretty intractable problem. I’ve never lived anywhere that found a lasting solution to it. Tends to be more of an issue in the least and most developed countries.

 

[Koldo]

I have to somewhat disagree, at least when it comes to certain contexts, on the point about hatred, partially but not exclusively based on the rising tide of far-right anti-Muslim narratives in French politics. For years, especially under Macron, some of the French government's rhetoric toward Islam and expressions thereof has been, in my opinion, nothing short of incendiary and reckless. I don't think a secular government has any business legislating what women can or can't wear at the beach, and I see no reason to believe that France is such a unique case that it can't allow burkinis and religious symbols in public like many other developed countries do.

Many people, including feminists, both from France and other countries have pointed out the inconsistency and irony in the French government's claims to stand for secularism, freedom, and women's rights (Macron has previously claimed to be a feminist, for instance) while cracking down on Islamic clothing even if women voluntarily choose to wear it. I think this cartoon sums up the double standards pretty well:

It is possible, and even common, to be voluntarily in the receiving end of abusive treatment.

 

[LuisDantas]

(..)
That's a huge and complicated subject on its own, for sure. I would get into it, although I don't think I could do that here without going too far off topic. In a nutshell, though, I think the French government could handle laws regarding certain religious matters in a less heavy-handed way, which I think would be better for promoting tolerance and coexistence. I believe this applies not just to Islam (although it seems to me to have been especially put under a magnifying glass in France in recent years) but to all other religions.

That is certainly a worthy goal... but also one that pretty much no one else succeeded at, including many a Muslim community when faced with other Muslims.

I can't in good faith fault France for having a hard time there when everyone else does as well.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You said:




Implying that it was primarily (or was it exclusively?) American Christians who were raising a fuss over this.

I was just trying to show you why that didn't play.

Responding to that with:

Just comes across as a way of avoiding having to admit your mistake.

Which can itself be seen as an admission, so I guess my work is done here.

Well, that went absolutely no where.

Still don't know why any Christians are outraged either. Or which ones. Or where.

 

[ChristineM]

As a student of the history of France (my interest starts with Michel de Montaigne - Wikipedia), I am familiar, to an extent, to what the ethos of France is today and how it arrived to where it is. OM goodness, I have read all of Diderot's works. Danton was a hero in many ways.

But, nevertheless, the 'law of the land' there today is equally radical - and also very intolerant. IMHO.

It does however seem to work, there are a lot less headlines on attracts for religious reasons than there were when we moved here. I.e, it was one or two a month, now i can't remember the last time i saw one.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Of course the far right is a cess pit of hatred but they are not the ones making the laws, yet at least.

Yeah, and I don't think Macron's leadership has exactly helped to combat or quell hatred either, so it has only increased in recent years. I doubt the skit in the Olympics was intended to cause offense, but against the backdrop of things like bans on burkinis and religious symbols, I can see why many people would perceive it as an attack on their religion, correctly or not—especially if they're not from France and are not familiar with France's reasoning for such laws.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Was there a point that you had to make by bringing up Dionysus?

Yes. I'm wondering why Christians are upset about the depiction of Dionysus at the Olympics.

 

[Quagmire]

Dionysus was a central figure of the scene that apparently offended so many Christians.

I realize that not all pictures and videos may have made that apparent, but he was represented there. Easily recognizable by the food around him, his limited clothing, and his blue skin.

You may disagree, but I certainly find that fact significant and a strong indication that the intent was never to make much of a reference to depictions of the Last Supper of the Gospels.

When you're hosting an event that's intended to include people from all nations, cultures, and religions, it isn't enough not to be intentionally offensive, you have an obligation to take what measures you can not to inadvertently offend anyone.

Here's the official Olympics mission statement of the international Olympic Committee (IOC)

1. **Promote Olympism:** To contribute to building a better world by fostering a peaceful society concerned with the preservation of human dignity through sport.

2. **Encourage Participation:** To encourage the practice of sports and promote the benefits of physical education and sporting activity.

3. **Celebrate Excellence:** To celebrate the highest levels of athletic achievement and to inspire athletes to strive for excellence.

4. **Foster International Cooperation:** To strengthen the bonds between nations and cultures through the shared experience of the Olympic Games.

These principles guide the organization and execution of the Games, aiming to uphold the values of integrity, respect, and fair play."
(Emphasis mine)

I can't imagine that the people putting together the opening ceremonies were completely oblivious to the religious associations people were going to make with the scene.

Whether the scene was intended as a parody of the last supper or not, they must have known that a lot of people were going t take it that way and be offended by it.

That's reason enough for condemnation.

 

[We Never Know]

Still don't know why any Christians are outraged either.

The similarities are hard to ignore.

Or which ones. Or where.

Evidently according to searches quite a few places around the world.

 

[Quagmire]

Well, that went absolutely no where.

Well, look at where it started.

Still don't know why any Christians are outraged either. Or which ones. Or where.

It's been all over the news, all over the world, all over the internet for the last couple of days.

There's even a thread about it somewhere on this very site (I'll see if I can find that for you).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Because drag queens are subversive representations of the inversion of human sexuality.

Drag queens are putting on a show.
Aristophanes would have loved it.

 

[ChristineM]

Yeah, and I don't think Macron's leadership has exactly helped to combat or quell hatred either, so it has only increased in recent years. I doubt the skit in the Olympics was intended to cause offense, but against the backdrop of things like bans on burkinis and religious symbols, I can see why many people would perceive it as an attack on their religion, correctly or not—especially if they're not from France and are not familiar with France's reasoning for such laws.

The right has little to do with Macron. Unfortunately france is a free country, even the right have the right to pronounce their various isms so long as the law is not broken*.
I cannot see it as an attack on religion, i see it as a misunderstanding make by seriously unhinged people.

* Articles 32 and 33 prohibit anyone from publicly defaming or insulting a person or group for belonging or not belonging, in fact or in fancy, to an ethnicity, a nation, a race, a religion, a sex, or a sexual orientation, or for having a handicap.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's been all over the news, all over the world, all over the internet for the last couple of days.

Christian outrage over big piles of nothing is nothing new. Like the show GCB. It skewered the hypocrisy of Evangelical Christianity. But there was heavy Christian outrage over it. Just like there was over taking John Lennon out of context.