The law of God, still abides.

[Robert.Evans]

I like your post, though. ^_^

Have you just woke up?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

so if the law does not apply to people "in Christ" does that mean they are allowed to kill others and steal and otherwise break the commandments? didn't Jesus say that if you love Him you should keep the commandments?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

LOL. You mean he did away with the death sentence that he forced us into in the first place? What a hero.

Death came because because it is impossible to have the knowledge of good and evil and live forever. If God is responsible for setting that up, so be it.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

so if the law does not apply to people "in Christ" does that mean they are allowed to kill others and steal and otherwise break the commandments?

Is that the only alternative you see?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

you either keep the law or you do not. do you see another alternative?

 

[Demonslayer]

Death came because because it is impossible to have the knowledge of good and evil and live forever.

Sorry I had to bold your quote instead of using the quote box because your quote was inside the other quote box.

What does this mean? Humans would be immortal if we didn't know right from wrong? How does our knowledge of right and wrong make us moral? The two don't seem linked to me. It's like saying we lose our eyesight because we can taste the difference between sweer and sour. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

If God is responsible for setting that up, so be it.

God is most certainly responsible for setting it up. Humans got sandbagged by God. I'm tagged with Original Sin for something I had no part in, and now I have to buy into his program or else? What a scam job.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

you either keep the law or you do not. do you see another alternative?

By "law" I assume you mean the Mosaic Law?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Death came because because it is impossible to have the knowledge of good and evil and live forever.

Sorry I had to bold your quote instead of using the quote box because your quote was inside the other quote box.

What does this mean? Humans would be immortal if we didn't know right from wrong? How does our knowledge of right and wrong make us moral? The two don't seem linked to me. It's like saying we lose our eyesight because we can taste the difference between sweer and sour. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

You need to go back to Genesis and the time of the expulsion from the Garden of Eden to see that the consequences of gaining the knowledge of good and evil brought death.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

for starters let's just say the "law" refers to the 10 commandments. are Christians supposed to keep the commandments or did Jesus do away with them? if He did away with them why did He say "keep the commandments"? and if He did away with them then are Christians allowed to kill and steal, etc.?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

for starters let's just say the "law" refers to the 10 commandments. are Christians supposed to keep the commandments or did Jesus do away with them? if He did away with them why did He say "keep the commandments"? and if He did away with them then are Christians allowed to kill and steal, etc.?

Let's progress past my initial assertions. I've stated that the Mosaic Law was not done away with and I will suppose that you think there is no other alternative to stealing and killing without the Law. So let me ask you this, before the Law was it ok to steal and murder?

 

[Demonslayer]

You need to go back to Genesis and the time of the expulsion from the Garden of Eden to see that the consequences of gaining the knowledge of good and evil brought death.

Right, I'm asking you to think about that for a second. Biblical followers tend to make statements because they have been making the same statements their whole life, without thinking about what they mean.

How does knowledge of a thing affect the longevity of that thing? And why don't severly mentally handicapped people, who don't know right from wrong, live forever?

It's nonsensical.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Right, I'm asking you to think about that for a second. Biblical followers tend to make statements because they have been making the same statements their whole life, without thinking about what they mean.

How does knowledge of a thing affect the longevity of that thing? And why don't severly mentally handicapped people, who don't know right from wrong, live forever?

It's nonsensical.

Technically this is a Biblical debate and I'm pretty sure the accuracy of the Bible is not the topic but what the Bible actually say. In such a case God deemed that man cannot abide in eternity with Him and posses the knowledge of evil. Yet, this line of pursuit seems to me to not apply to the OP. Do you see it otherwise?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

so let's say it was not OK to steal and kill before Moses got the commandments from God. people still say Jesus did away with the law so what law was done away? stealing and killing was not OK before Moses got the commandments and it is still not OK.. what was the value of putting the law in writing?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

so let's say it was not OK to steal and kill before Moses got the commandments from God. people still say Jesus did away with the law so what law was done away? stealing and killing was not OK before Moses got the commandments and it is still not OK.. what was the value of putting the law in writing?

First of all, for the third time, the Mosaic Law was not done away with. Now before the Law, according to Romans man was a law unto himself and therefore without excuse. So there is one alternative to the Mosaic law since the Bible say that being a law unto yourself was not done away with either.

 

[Demonslayer]

Technically this is a Biblical debate and I'm pretty sure the accuracy of the Bible is not the topic but what the Bible actually say.

OK to enter a Biblical debate we have to assume everything in the Bible is accurate? How is that a debate. If everything in the Bible is acurate, the human race has all the answers to the universe. Do you think we have all the answers to the universe?

In such a case God deemed that man cannot abide in eternity with Him and posses the knowledge of evil.

Right, I get it I was raised in a very Catholic family. I understand the story of Adam and Eve and how it relates to the need for Jesus' sacrifice.

Yet, this line of pursuit seems to me to not apply to the OP. Do you see it otherwise?

To be honest the OP is such a garbled mess of cut 'n paste bible quotes I'm not even sure what the point was.

Originally I responded to a post about Jesus saving us from sin, and it's my opinion...assuming for a second that this whole story is true, which of course it isn't...that is was history's greatest set up. God could have just told the snake to GTFO of the garden and let Adam and Eve live in bliss. Being omnipotent, God knew they would fail the test.

It's like leaving a plate of hot dogs on the coffee table while your dog is in there, and then beating the dog when you come back to find the hot dogs have been eaten.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

OK to enter a Biblical debate we have to assume everything in the Bible is accurate? How is that a debate. If everything in the Bible is acurate, the human race has all the answers to the universe. Do you think we have all the answers to the universe?



Right, I get it I was raised in a very Catholic family. I understand the story of Adam and Eve and how it relates to the need for Jesus' sacrifice.



To be honest the OP is such a garbled mess of cut 'n paste bible quotes I'm not even sure what the point was.

Originally I responded to a post about Jesus saving us from sin, and it's my opinion...assuming for a second that this whole story is true, which of course it isn't...that is was history's greatest set up. God could have just told the snake to GTFO of the garden and let Adam and Eve live in bliss. Being omnipotent, God knew they would fail the test.

It's like leaving a plate of hot dogs on the coffee table while your dog is in there, and then beating the dog when you come back to find the hot dogs have been eaten.

I'm under the impression this was a debate as to whether or not a Christian still needs to follow the Law.

 

[Demonslayer]

I'm under the impression this was a debate as to whether or not a Christian still needs to follow the Law.

That helps, I honestly couldn't make heads or tails out of that OP.

I think the answer lies in the salvation model each Christian uses. It's a pretty even split between faith-based salvation Christians (those who believe salvation is won by "faith and faith alone") and works-based salvation Christians (who believe good deeds, or at least a lack of bad deeds, are required to be saved).

The former don't really have to follow any law, all they need to do is believe in Jesus and Jesus' sacrifice atones for all of their sins. The latter would need to follow the law so their record of good works doesn't suffer and lead to damnation.

So I guess my answer is, it depends on which version of the Cosmic Guilt Trip one believes in. I find the works-based model much more morally acceptable because at least it says people have to be good. Faith based salvation is the most downright immoral, cultish, horrible idea ever invented by man.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

That helps, I honestly couldn't make heads or tails out of that OP.

I think the answer lies in the salvation model each Christian uses. It's a pretty even split between faith-based salvation Christians (those who believe salvation is won by "faith and faith alone") and works-based salvation Christians (who believe good deeds, or at least a lack of bad deeds, are required to be saved).

The former don't really have to follow any law, all they need to do is believe in Jesus and Jesus' sacrifice atones for all of their sins. The latter would need to follow the law so their record of good works doesn't suffer and lead to damnation.

So I guess my answer is, it depends on which version of the Cosmic Guilt Trip one believes in. I find the works-based model much more morally acceptable because at least it says people have to be good. Faith based salvation is the most downright immoral, cultish, horrible idea ever invented by man.

I'll assume then that you, personally, fall under the camp that you don't need to follow the Mosaic Law.

 

[Demonslayer]

I'll assume then that you, personally, fall under the camp that you don't need to follow the Mosaic Law.

I'm in the camp that says half of "Mosaic Law" is simply a mandate to remain in the Jesus cult, and the other half are common moral concepts stolen from other, older documents.

Should we follow "don't kill" and "don't steal?" Sure, but I don't need Moses to tell me that. Should we worry about working on Sunday or yelling JESUS! when we stub our toe? No, of course not.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I'm in the camp that says half of "Mosaic Law" is simply a mandate to remain in the Jesus cult, and the other half are common moral concepts stolen from other, older documents.

Should we follow "don't kill" and "don't steal?" Sure, but I don't need Moses to tell me that. Should we worry about working on Sunday or yelling JESUS! when we stub our toe? No, of course not.

Your right, nobody needs to be told that such things are wrong, but in order for the God you may not believe in to judge mankind and therefore be just, there needs to be a law.