The law of God, still abides.

[psychoslice]

The so called God has many laws over many years, and many of those laws were disgusting, and many done away from the bible by the new testament, which I believe was because of the embarrassing and disgusting trip of those laws.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I do not think it is up to us to decide if the law makes sense or is disgusting. And I am talking only of the 10 commandments. Many of the ceremonial laws may not apply today because there is no priesthood or temple. But if God went to the trouble to write ten laws on tablets of stone and Jesus later said to keep those laws then that seems like enough reason for people to obey them even in this modern day. As for having a neighbor stoned to death for breaking the law, Jesus said that we should not judge others. The judgeing is up to God but we should do our best to obey ourselves and let others worry about themselves.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

So Paul has more authority than Jesus? I thought Christians worshiped Jesus but maybe they should be worshipping Paul. When Jesus says "keep the commandments" I do not think Paul could change that.

Paul explains it. Read Romans 6 & 7 then I'll discuss it.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Romans 6:15 says "shall we sin because we are not under the law? God forbid." Isn't this saying that we should not sin? God forbid that we should sin? Sin is the breaking of the law so this is saying we should not break the law (sin). and there is a place where God says He never changes so that sounds like His laws would not change.

Yet there was sin before the Law. And as I've said before there is Old Testament evidence of the rules of God changing.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I do not think it is up to us to decide if the law makes sense or is disgusting. And I am talking only of the 10 commandments. Many of the ceremonial laws may not apply today because there is no priesthood or temple. But if God went to the trouble to write ten laws on tablets of stone and Jesus later said to keep those laws then that seems like enough reason for people to obey them even in this modern day. As for having a neighbor stoned to death for breaking the law, Jesus said that we should not judge others. The judgeing is up to God but we should do our best to obey ourselves and let others worry about themselves.

You have decided that the Ten Commandments are the only part of the Law you care about. You have decided not to follow the rest of the Law. You are violating the very tenet of your opening line.

 

[outhouse]

So Paul has more authority than Jesus?

No he has more to do with Christianity then Jesus.

Paul later became popular in the movement long after his life was over.

Jesus did not start a new religion, Paul addressed problems he found in the new religion.

I thought Christians worshiped Jesus but maybe they should be worshipping Paul

They follow Pauls teachings.

We are not sure what Jesus actually taught. But we know he taught Judaism not Christianity like Paul.

Please learn the difference

When Jesus says "keep the commandments

Jesus would have been following Judaism like he was raised to do.

[if some Christian author didn't make that up]

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

You say Jesus did not start a new religion and followed Judaism. Then maybe Judaism is best for everyone. Christians say they are following Jesus but maybe they are following the wrong religious ideas.

 

[outhouse]

You say Jesus did not start a new religion and followed Judaism. Then maybe Judaism is best for everyone. Christians say they are following Jesus but maybe they are following the wrong religious ideas.

Who is to say which one of mans creation is right for who?

 

[outhouse]

. Christians say they are following Jesus

Weird thing is, most of what we attribute to Jesus which is very very little with any certainty, was probably what John taught Jesus.

Jesus took over johns movement when John was murdered, and Jesus was probably Johns best student.

 

[CG Didymus]

I do not think it is up to us to decide if the law makes sense or is disgusting. And I am talking only of the 10 commandments. Many of the ceremonial laws may not apply today because there is no priesthood or temple. But if God went to the trouble to write ten laws on tablets of stone and Jesus later said to keep those laws then that seems like enough reason for people to obey them even in this modern day. As for having a neighbor stoned to death for breaking the law, Jesus said that we should not judge others. The judgeing is up to God but we should do our best to obey ourselves and let others worry about themselves.

God told his people to stone the ones that broke his laws. The law is more than the 10 commandments. However, if you want to focus on one commandment, let's look at the one about coveting your neighbors wife. Jesus redefined it and said that anyone that looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery in his heart. And, what is the punishment? Stoning. Should it be enforced? I hope not. But, Jesus also gave people an alternative. All they'd have to do is pluck their eyes out, so that way they couldn't see and therefore, supposedly, not lust. I really, really hope no one takes this seriously. Yet, it's Jesus' words. So what are we supposed to do? Listen and obey every word Jesus said? I don't think so. Hopefully, people will use their brains when they read the Bible and not take everything too literal.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Jesus died to pay the price for our sins. We do not have to stone anyone or pluck out our eyes because the penalty has already been paid. That does not mean we should not do our best to obey even though mo one is perfect and we will break some of the rules from time to time. Some people believe Jesus did away with the law and we do not even have to try to obey. But He did not do away with the law He just paid the price for us. And again, Jesus told us not to judge others, He will be the final judge. We should only do our best to obey His rules.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Some people believe Jesus did away with the law and we do not even have to try to obey.

I know of no Christian who believes this.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Well I have heard many sermons that said Jesus "nailed the law to the cross" or Jesus "fulfiled the law". Others come right out and say Christians are not under the law or Jesus did away with the law. I am not saying I believe it or you should believe it but there is no doubt many people believe it.

 

[Disciple]

Though not entirely void, the law is no longer necessary for those who have been transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit because the heart of such a person is conformed completely to God. The law is still very valid and should be established for the unregenerate person, a point about which Paul is very clear.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Even those who have been transformed still need to follow the law. Their sins may be forgiven but that is not a free pass to do whatever they want.

 

[Disciple]

Even those who have been transformed still need to follow the law. Their sins may be forgiven but that is not a free pass to do whatever they want.

I agree, but in a nuanced way. Those who are transformed are led by the Spirit and willingly and joyfully follow the law, meaning they have been set free from the burden of the law which was previously contrary to their sinful nature. Living in love and holiness, those who are free from their sin by the power of God are now conformed to a much higher way: Jesus Christ, who is the love of God. And because love harms no one, love is the fulfillment of the law. Those who are not transformed and thus not Spirit-led are still under the law as they are still slaves to their sins and under God's righteous judgment.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

OK Great. So those who are Spirit-led will follow the law willingly and those who are not Spirit-led will not follow willingly but are still supposed to follow it. That is just a long way of saying everyone should follow God's laws, whether they do it willingly or not. No laws have been done away and everyone is expected to follow them. The original post stated that the law of God still abides and I see nothing to contradict this.

 

[Disciple]

OK Great. So those who are Spirit-led will follow the law willingly and those who are not Spirit-led will not follow willingly but are still supposed to follow it. That is just a long way of saying everyone should follow God's laws, whether they do it willingly or not. No laws have been done away and everyone is expected to follow them. The original post stated that the law of God still abides and I see nothing to contradict this.

"Abide" means "remain or continue." And yes, as I said, the law according to the New Testament, abides. Paul says we should establish it, for it establishes our utter sinfulness by revealing God's standard and hopefully leads us to grace. The deeper question, which I think the OP was getting at, is whether the law "applies" to believers (And I cannot see the point of the discussion unless this is what the OP was implying). And as I explained in my previous post, the answer to this deeper question is a decided "no" according to the New Testament. How can the law apply to those who are justified by grace and are daily putting to death the deeds of the flesh? Against such there is no law.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

All I can say is that if the law does not apply then we are free to steal and kill and lie and otherwise break the law because it does not apply. I think perhaps the law does not "apply" because Jesus died to pay the price for our breaking the law. That does not mean we are free to break the law any time we want to. We still are expected to do our best to obey the law. That is my definition of the law "applying".

 

[sandy whitelinger]

All I can say is that if the law does not apply then we are free to steal and kill and lie and otherwise break the law because it does not apply. I think perhaps the law does not "apply" because Jesus died to pay the price for our breaking the law. That does not mean we are free to break the law any time we want to. We still are expected to do our best to obey the law. That is my definition of the law "applying".

Dude, everyone is under 1 law or another.