sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Read that bold part for me, I cant't find my reading glasses.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
The law of God, still abides.
- Thread starter feneluscliff
- Start date
outhouse
Atheistically
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ancient_Israel_and_Judah
Israelite monotheism evolved gradually out of pre-existing beliefs and practices of the ancient world.[75] The religion of the Israelites of Iron Age I, like the Canaanite faith from which it evolved[76] and other ancient Near Eastern religions, was based on a cult of ancestors and worship of family gods (the "gods of the fathers").[77] Its major deities were not numerous – El, Asherah, and Yahweh, with Baal as a fourth god, and perhaps Shamash (the sun) in the early period.[78] By the time of the early Hebrew kings, El and Yahweh had become fused and Asherah did not continue as a separate state cult
None of that is up for debate, it is what it is, you can either accept this knowledge and the truth, or refuse it. But you cannot change this knowledge.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
So then, the God who spoke to Moses on Mt. Sinai was whom?
It's from Wiki, it can be changed.
outhouse
Atheistically
Only if the new knowledge is knowledge. Sorry it is credible knowledge.
Anything else is theistic bias, and faith which is factually not credible history.
Your taking a mythical account, and claiming it was historical when it has no historicity as ever taking place.
By our best accounts moses is 100% mythology, the exodus is said to have never taken place. Its been said to be factual as far as the Canaanite origins of Israelites.
You cannot change this knowledge, you can only refuse it due to lack of study on the topic and theistic bias.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses
While the general narrative of the Exodus and the conquest of the Promised Land may be remotely rooted in historical events, the figure of Moses as a leader of the Israelites in these events cannot be substantiated
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus
The Exodus (from Greek ἔξοδος exodos, "going out") is the founding myth of Israel
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
I've done no such thing. I asked which God spoke to Moses at Mt. Sinai. Please try and stay on topic. I'm trying to learn here.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
OK that seems pretty clear. Mosaic law has not been eliminated. But back in post #69 you said Mosaic law was for Jewish people and Christians follow the law of faith.. Then post #73 said the crucifixion opened the door to freedom from being under natural or Mosaic law. So you seem to be talking in circles. The law has not been eliminated but some people get to follow different laws and the crucifixion made people free from the law. I believe God has one set of laws that apply to everyone both before and after the time of Jesus.
outhouse
Atheistically
But god did not speak to any moses. My point is that is 100% literary creation by all accounts.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
The concept of God being a just relies on Him following the dictates of law when being a judge of men. In that respect there have been laws since the Garden of Eden when God gave Adam and Eve two commandments: Be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth, and don't eat of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Now,Romans lays out the case that neither the natural law nor the Mosaic Law redeems man only condemns them. Thus the section of Romans that deals with the faith of Abraham happened before the Mosaic Law therefore his redemption happened by some other mechanism than the law that was over him at the time. His faith saved him as it has everyone throughout the history of the Bible.
I'll ask you this then, "Why is it not acceptable to be condemned by one set of laws and redeemed by another?"
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
You seem to wish to speak about the Bible instead of what's in the Bible. Why don't you save that discussion for a thread that is not focused on it's contents.
outhouse
Atheistically
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Perhaps you can put some understandable context to this debate over whether a Christian should follow the Law for me please.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
The best context is that Jesus said "if you love me keep the commandments." If the commandments are God's law then it is very clear that Christians should follow the law.
outhouse
Atheistically
Context is key. And we don't know what Jesus really said.
Christians did not need to follow Jewish law, because they were divorcing cultural Judaism in favor of their Hellenized version. When the movement first started different groups had different views on how tightly they should still embrace laws in Judaism. Paul is arguing about this in Galatians I believe with a group who wants to hold more Jewish traditions then Paul.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
If someone claims to be a Christian then they have to start with something and that might as well be the Bible even if it is not perfect. Otherwise you can just make up anything. If the Bible is wrong then no one knows what to believe and all religion is just some made up group of ideas. Which may be true but those people who claim to be Christian have to base their beliefs on something. The point of this discussion is if the laws of God still apply to people today and I have to say that if you use the Bible as your authority then the laws still apply. If you do not trust or follow the Bible then you can believe whatever you want.
outhouse
Atheistically
No one is saying it is wrong, its how you look at it, or interpret it, is exactly where the trouble starts.
The problem as I mentioned in my first post, is that that there are many different laws written by different people.
These are not gods laws, they are peoples laws, most of which Israelites copied from previous civilizations, and later Christians changed to meet their personal needs.
It doesn't work like that because the books often contradict each other.
Paul was aggressive against laws of Judaism in the OT, later authors attributed to him tried to soften his view up looking for a happy middle ground.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Until they were instructed by Paul that they were no longer under the Law. Did you read Romans 6 & 7?
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Are you aware that there is Old Testament foundation for God changing His laws.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
So Paul has more authority than Jesus? I thought Christians worshiped Jesus but maybe they should be worshipping Paul. When Jesus says "keep the commandments" I do not think Paul could change that.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
Romans 6:15 says "shall we sin because we are not under the law? God forbid." Isn't this saying that we should not sin? God forbid that we should sin? Sin is the breaking of the law so this is saying we should not break the law (sin). and there is a place where God says He never changes so that sounds like His laws would not change.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Other than the places where it says to "keep" His laws forever, do you really think some of those laws even make sense in the modern world? Like if I see my neighbor collecting firewood on the Sabbath, should I go to the elders and get him stoned to death?