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The Lord's Day, is it really Sunday?
- Thread starter 3rdAngel
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Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
Goodness, brother, I love God's Word
Well, here's a thought.
Galatians 3:19. 'Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.'
The commandment to keep the weekly Sabbath is part of the law of God. According to Galatians 3:19, the law was added because of transgressions. A transgression is a form of disobedience, so God must have been angry at the Israelites for their disobedience. God added the law of the Sabbath, together with other laws, to ensure that the Israelites knew the boundaries, of what was right and wrong. From this we can also infer that the Israelites were not under the law prior to the giving of the law. Prior to the giving of the law, the Israelites, and their forefathers, lived by faith, and by conscience.
You'll probably want to quote me Genesis 26:5. 'Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.' You'll say, this indicates that Abraham had God's law [Ten Commandments]. But this cannot be the case. The laws and commandments of which Genesis 26:5 speaks are only those laws and commandments that God gave directly to Abraham. For example, Genesis 21:4.'And Abraham circumcised his son Isaac being eight days old, as God had commanded him.' The case is proved by the fact that Abraham did not transgress God's commandments [Genesis 26:5], and therefore Abraham could not have been under the law which were added because of transgressions [Galatians 3:19].
The point I'm making here is that there is no indication that the weekly Sabbath was adhered to before the commandment in Exodus 16:23. Verses 25,26 state, 'And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field. Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.' The Israelites had clearly not heard of the weekly Sabbath until it was instituted by Moses in the Wilderness. He had to instruct them.
You'll now, I have no doubt, want to refer me to Genesis 2:3. You'll say that God sanctified the seventh day for mankind. But this is God's rest, a spiritual rest. It only applies to all mankind on earth after seven thousand years of our existence, following Christ's return.
Revelation 1:10 is not referring to the weekly sabbath, but to the return of Christ. Notice that it says, 'I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,' [1 Thess. 4:16]. It's the trumpet that sounds at the return of Christ. John is 'in the Spirit', which means that he is not restricted in time or space. God takes him, spiritually, to another place, to see for himself.
Since there is no indication that the weekly sabbath was adhered to prior to the giving of the law, it should come as no surprise that the law is once again not applicable during the period under grace, the Church age. Abraham's time mirrors the present dispensation of grace. The commandments that apply to those born again of Christ's Spirit are commandments to LOVE.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe if I had half as much worship from someone on Wednesday as some provide for me on Saturday I would be happy.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe the Word is living because it comes from God but the Bible is dead.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe every day of a week is a seventh day. Wednesday is the seventh day from Thursday.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
No that is not the Sabbath day. Go ask the JEWS when the Sabbath starts they are the ones who have been keeping it unbroken for 1000's of years already.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Depends on how you are defining "LAW" in the bible. There are the Shadow laws of MOSES from the book of the old covenant *EXODUS 24:7 that where prophetic in nature that pointed to JESUS as the promised MESSIAH as revealed in the MOSAIC laws for remission of sins in sin offereings, the Levitical Priesthood's ceremonial laws and Sanctuary laws and annual feast days of Leviticus 23 which are fulfilled in Christ as the Messiah and God's plan of salvation under the new covenant *HEBREWS 7; HEBREWS 8; HEBREWS 9 and HEBREWS 10.
I believe GALATIANS 3:19 has two applications; 1. the fulfuillment of the prophetic Mosiac laws that pointed to JESUS as the promised Saviour to mankind and sacrifice for the sins of the world *JOHN 1:29 and Salvation from the condemnation of sin through faith in JESUS as the promised Messiah and his sacrifice for our sins. The scripture is not saying God's 10 commandments have been abolished. God's LAW (10 Commandments) have the same role in the new covenant that they have always had in the old covenant and that is to give us the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4.
Without God's LAW (10 Commandments) we have no knowledge of what sin is when it is broken. No knowledge of Good and Evil, or Sin and Rightesouness. This very same law teaches us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *GALATIANS 3:22-25. Faith does not "abolish" God's LAW according to the scriptures it "establishes" God's LAW *ROMANS 3:31. This is the new covenant promise which is those who believe are to be born again and given a new heart to love and love is the fulfulling of God's LAW in all those who have been raised to newness of life to believe *HEBREWS 8:10-12; MATTHEW 22:36-40; ROMANS 13:8-10.
To be continued...
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3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
This is partly addressed in the previous post. Transgression here is in reference to sin as sin is defined in the scriptures as transgression of God's LAW (10 Commandments) in 1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 7:7. God does not change according to the scriptures *NUMBERS 23:19; HEBREWS 13:8; JAMES 1:17. If we sin which is defined in the scriptures as breaking any one of God's 10 commandments *JAMES 2:10-11 we stand guilty before God condemned and guilty before God *ROMANS 3:19-20. Nothing has changed here. As shown in the previous post God's LAW (10 Commandments) in the new covenant give us the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4.
to be continued...
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
We might spend a bit more time here on the detail in this section as it can be clearly shown through the scriptures that before the written word of God given at Mt Sinai there was the "spoken" Word of God that was given to those who believed and followed God's Word. The scriptures are very clear that God's people had his laws before Mt Sinai and it is these scriptures I think it would be good to focus on here..
GOD'S LAW BEFORE EXODUS 16 AND MT SINAI
Before the WRITTEN WORD of GOD there was the SPOKEN WORD of GOD * GENESIS 3:1-3; 9; 11-19 8:15; 9:8; 24:7; 31:11 etc). If BEFORE the written Word was given at Mt Sinai there was the "spoken" Word of God what makes you think that God's people did not KNOW about God's LAWS including God's SABBATH? Let's look at some examples that suggest God's LAW was known through the SPOKEN WORD BEFORE the WRITTEN WORD was given to God's ISRAEL.
When CAIN and ABEL were born it is clear from God’s WORD that there was SIN offerings for remission of sin as shown in GENESIS 4:1-7. We are latter told that ENOCH and NOAH walked with God *GENESIS 5:24; GENESIS 6:8 so were following God’s ways. In NOAHS time the thoughts of men were only evil continually *GENESIS 6:5-7. Jesus says that what defiles a man is an evil heart that breaks God’s commandments *MATTHEW 15:16:19.
Before the Flood, God made his Covenant with NOAH and his decendance *GENESIS 9:1-9. When Abraham was present God spoke to Abraham and made his covenant with him and his descendance *GENESIS 15:18. 17:2-19.
God said of Abraham that....
GENESIS 26:5 ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE AND KEPT MY CHARGE, MAY COMMANDMENTS, MY STATUTES AND MY LAWS.
The HEBREW word used for laws is TORAH. So, it is very clear that the SPOKEN WORD of GOD included God’s TORAH. The TORAH includes all God's LAWS of the OLD COVENANT from God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 and the SHADOW laws for remission of sin (burn't offerings) if God's LAW was broken.
If they had no law BEFORE the written WORD of GOD then they would have no knowledge of what sin is because through the law is the knowledge of sin *ROMANS 3:20. If they did not know what sin was there would have been no need of sin offerings. Yet here we also see in GENESIS 22:2-7 that it was a regular practice for Abraham and his family to offer burnt offerings for sin. So before Mt Sinai God’s people had the SPOKEN Word of God after slavery to the Egyptians they received the WRITTEN Word of God but through all this time God’s people had a knowledge of what sin was and what to do if sin was committed. Sin is defined in God's Word as breaking any one of God's 10 commandments *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 7:7; ROMANS 3:20. It can be defined as "missing the mark". The mark here being obedience to God's LAW.
Some more examples of Gods people knowing what sin is...
God said in GENESIS 4:7 to Cain when he was angry because he did not worship God in his appointed way that by doing this it was sin. Jesus says the same in MATTHEW 15:3-9 that if we follow and teachings of men that break the commandments of God we are not following God. Mankind was destroyed by a flood because of sin (GENESIS 6:5-7). Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because of sin (GENESIS 18:20).
Jacob knew about SIN (breaking God's LAW) BEFORE Mt Sinia when he complained to Laben when he left with his daughters (GENESIS 31:36).
When Potiphar’s wife came to Joseph with the aim of committing adultery, Joseph knew it was sin and protested saying how then can I do this great wickedness, and SIN AGAINST GOD? (GENESIS 39:9).
As time goes by God detroys mankind for evil and sin with a flood as well as Sodom and Gommorah with fire and the Epyptians with plagues *GENESIS 6:5-13; GENESIS 13:10-13; 18:20-33; 19:24; EXODUS 9:13-14. If there was no knowledge of sin there would be no punishment for it. God’s WORD is very clear that all of God’s Commandments were kept by God’s people before the written WORD through the Spoken WORD of GOD.
THE SABBATH BEFORE MT SINAI FROM THE SCRIPTURES
In GENESIS 2:1-3 we see the ORIGIN of the SABBATH which GOD said that on the SEVENTH DAY of the creation week he RESTED and BLESSED and setting it apart from the other days of the week as a HOLY DAY. Mankind was created on the 6th day of the week *GENESIS 1:26-28. The SABBATH was made before sin and the fall of mankind and kept with ADAM and EVE in the garden of Eden. This is shown in the words of Jesus himself as he says that the SABBATH was made for mankind *MARK 2:27, If God created mankind on the 6th DAY of the creation week and made the SABBATH on the SEVENTH DAY of the creation week for mankind then ADAM and EVE kept the SABBATH and knew about it.
If ADAM and EVE kept the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH and knew about it then so did their children through the spoken Word of God. Before Mt Sinai and before the slavery of God’s people to the Egyptians mankind had the spoken Word from God handed down from our first parants and Adam and Eve and God himself. God told Adam not to eat of the fruit of the knowledge of Good and Evil. Either God or Adam told Eve. *GENESIS 2:16-18; GENESIS 3:1-6. This was before mankind sinned and were in perfect harmony with God. After mankind had sinned *GENESIS 3 and had been given the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and to do EVIL, mankind was given more of the spoken Word of God outlining God’s plan of salvation for mankind *GENESIS 3:14-19.
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So, it is very clear that the spoken WORD of GOD included God’s Commandments. Not only as the KNOWLEDGE of what GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS were *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JOHN 3:4'SALMS 119:172, but also the SHADOW laws for remission of sin [FORGIVENESS] if any of God’s laws were broken. If they had no law then they would have no knowledge of what sin is or how to seek God's forgiveness for sin. If they did not know what sin was there would have been no need of sin offerings BEFORE EXODUS 20. Yet here we also see in GENESIS 22:2-7 that it was a regular practice for Abraham and his family to offer burnt offerings for sin. So before Mt Sinai God’s people had the spoken Word of God after slavery to the Egyptians they received the written Word of God but through all this time God’s people had a knowledge of what sin was and what to do if sin was committed.
to be continued...
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3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
REVELATION 1:10 AND THE LORDS DAY?
MATTHEW 12:8 as well as MARK 2:27-28 show that JESUS is GOD and the CREATOR of HEAVEN and EARTH as witnessed by MOSES in GENESIS chapters 1 and 2. JESUS says that he is the LORD (CREATOR) even of the SABBATH DAY. It is the LORDS DAY because on the SABBATH DAY JESUS; Set the SEVENTH DAY of the week apart for mankind as a HOLY DAY. On the SEVENTH DAY of CREATION GOD (JESUS) BLESSED the SEVENTH DAY, and SET IT APART as a HOLY DAY for mankind (BEFORE THE FALL) to REST with GOD. *GENESIS 2:1-3. What these scriptures prove is that the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH is the LORDS DAY that he set apart for mankind and show he is the creator of HEAVEN and EARTH. Now JOHN in REVELATION 1:10 knew that JESUS is the creator GOD and he refers to the SABBATH DAY as the LORD'S DAY *MATTHEW 12:8. These are God's WORD brother (not mine) and they disagree with you because there is no scripture that says SUNDAY is "THE LORDS DAY" but JESUS says he is the LORD (CREATOR) even of the SABBATH DAY *MATTHEW 12:8. JOHN in reference to being in the Spirit on “THE LORDS DAY REVELATION 1:10 is referring to JESUS as the creator of heaven and earth and the SABBATH DAY that GOD rested, blessed and made holy for mankind on the SEVENTH DAY of creation.
"THE LORDS DAY" as used in REVELATION 1:10 is not the same as "THE DAY OF THE LORD" as used in the second coming. "THE LORDS DAY" is in reference to the LORD's ownership of the day that JOHN was in the Spirit of. The Greek words used in REVELATION 1:10 is different to ημέρα κυρίου "day of the Lord". In REVELATION 1:10 the GREEK words κυριακή ημέρα; which mean "day belonging to the Lord". Within scripture CONTEXT means John was "in the Spirit on the day belonging to the Lord". John was taken in the Spirit on the Lord's day to the Heavenly Sanctuary and spoke with Jesus.
to be continued...
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3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
You cannot separate God’s Law of love from the 10 commandments because they are connected to each other. There is no need for confusion here. God’s Word makes it very clear. Let's look at the scriptures.
MATTHEW 22:36-40
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38], This is the first and great commandment.
[39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself.
[40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.
NOTE: Jesus when asked this question from the Lawyer is quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18. Finishes by saying that on the two great commandments of LOVE hang all the law and the prophets.
What does v40 mean?
LUKE 10:25-28
[25], And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tested him, saying, Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
[26], He said unto him, what is written in the law? how read you?
[27], And he [the Lawyer] answering said, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbour as yourself.
[28], And he said unto him, you have answered right: this do, and you shall live.
NOTE: The lawyer knew what it means to love God and love his neighbore. How? Notice the question that the lawyer starts os by asking Jesus; "WHAT SHALL I DO TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE?". Now notice that the very same question is asked again and look how Jesus answers...
MATTHEW 19:16-19
[16], And, behold, one came and said to him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
[17], And he said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but IF YOU WILL ENTER INTO LIFE, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.
[18], He said to him, Which? Jesus said, YOU SHALL DO NO MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT LIE, [19], HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and you shall love your neighbour as yourself.
Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
NOTE: Notice in that the question from the rich young ruler is the very same question as asked by the lawyer "WHAT SHALL I DO TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE?" but both were answered by Jesus in a different way. When the Lawer asked the question he answered his own question by saying LOVE to GOD and LOVE to his neighbor (from Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18). Jesus said he answered correctly. When the rich yound ruler asked the same question Jesus answered by saying keep the 10 Commandments and starts out quoting them as his duty of LOVE to his neighbor.
Is this a contradiction of scripture? In no way the answer has already been given in MATTHEW 22:36-40. ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS (LOVE TO GOD and LOVE TO MAN) HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.
When we LOVE GOD and our NEIGHBOUR it is expressed through our actions.
If we LOVE our neighbor...
* We will honor our parents,
* We will not kill them
* We will not commit adultery with thier spouse
* We will not steal from them
* We will not lie to them
* We will not covet what they own.
If we LOVE our God...
* We will not have other Gods
* We will not make idols and worship them
* We will not take his name [follow] him in vain
* We will remember his Sabbath and keep it holy.
ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS [OF LOVE] HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.
PAUL understood what JESUS was talking about...
ROMANS 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. [9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore, love is the fulfilling [DOING] of the law.
Notice what PAUL says here? LOVE is fulfilling [doing] God's Commandments. God's Commandments or duty towards your neighbor is summed up as you shall LOVE your neighbor as yourself v9. [On these two commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets Matthew 22:40].
PAUL agrees with Jesus that if you LOVE you will fulfill God's LAW. What about JAMES?
JAMES 2:8-12
[8] If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself [Sums up our duty of love in the 10 Commandments Romans 13:9] , you do well: [9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convicted of the law as transgressors. [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law. [12], So speak, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
James is using the second great commandment of LOVE which hangs all the commandments of our duty of love to our neighbour and quotes the commandments showing our duty towards our neighbor. This is why Jesus says “On these two commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets” Matthew 22:40. and again..
JOHN 14:15 [15], IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.
You cannot separate LOVE from God’s LAW. Love is the FULFILLING of it and is demonstrated by OBEDIENCE to Gods’ LAW as our duty of LOVE to God and man. [“On these two commandments [of LOVE] hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets]
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CONCLUSION: It is very clear that JESUS, PAUL and JAMES are all in agreement that the two GREAT COMMANDMENTS of LOVE that JESUS quoted from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 were used and known in the OLD Testament scripture to sum up our duty of LOVE to God and man in the 10 Commandments.... God's LAW (Ten commandments) is not separated from LOVE it demonstrates it. You cannot have LOVE without fulfilling God's Ten Commandments. [On these two Commandments of LOVE hang all the LAW and the prophets]. LOVE is the NEW COVENANT promise to OBEY God's LAW *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10. WE enter into God's NEW COVENANT to LOVE unless we are BORN AGAIN...
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Why is it wrong to share the scriptures? All the posts shared here are the result of my own bible study and prayerful time in God's Word. It is God's Word not mine and I believe it has be final say of what is true and what is not true. For me I love the scritptures as it is God's Word and I believe it. I believe all those who believe and follow God's Word will love the scriptures because they are Spirit and they are life. We have no life without God's Word.
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
I do not believe, as a born again believer, that I am called upon to keep a Sabbath every Friday/Saturday. In fact, I do not believe that I am under obligation to keep any specific rest day.
I disagree with you on the definition of 'law', as being the Ten Commandments only. From this erroneous definition of law stems other inaccuracies, IMO.
Your belief that burnt offerings were sin offerings is, to my understanding, also a mistake. The two offerings are quite distinct.
It should be carefully noted that the word 'Sabbath' does not appear from Genesis 2;2,3 until Exodus 16:23. Since Genesis 2:2,3 can be explained as God's thousand year 'day', it can be argued, with good reason, that Exodus 16 is the introduction of the weekly Sabbath.
Again, looking at the New Testament, there is no mention of the weekly Sabbath in any of Paul's epistles, the very letters that were written specifically to the Church. Yet you would have us believe that the Church should be following Jewish tradition of a weekly Friday/Saturday rest!
This, on the other hand, is the covenant with Israel. Exodus 31:15. 'Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.'
Do you put members of your church to death for working on the Sabbath?
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
For me I believe you would have to deny a lot of scripture or not know the scriptures to believe and state your claims here.
If your referring to GENESIS 26:5 and this use of the Hebrew word for Abraham keeping God's LAW's the Hebrew word used is TORAH which includes both God's law (10 commandments) and the laws for remission of sins (animal sacrifices and burnt offerings and sin offerings). As posted earlier the bibles definition of sin is breaking any one of God's 10 commandments *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11 and not believing God's Word *ROMANS 14:23.
Nonsense. There were many types of offerings under TORAH but all revolved around God, dedication and consecreation and the atonement for sin. Burn't offerings had a number of purposes including consecreation and the atonement for sin. *LEVITICUS 1:3-4
I believe you are confused here brother. According to GENESIS 2:1-3 God blessed the "SEVENTH DAY" and set apart the "SEVENTH DAY" as a "HOLY DAY" of REST as a memorial of creation for all mankind. This was when the "SEVENTH DAY SABBATH" was created by God for all mankind and given to mankind in Adam and Eve who were created on the 6th day. Two Hebrew words for you to look up one is "SABBATH" and "REST" The Hebrew word for SABBATH (noun) means from one SABBATH to the NEXT SHABBATH and the Hebrew word for "REST" (verb) used in GENESIS 2:1-3 means the act of keeping SABBATH or how to keep SABBATH.
WHERE IS THE SABBATH IN GENESIS 2:1-3?
GOD's 4th Commandment is refering to GENESIS 2:1-3 in EXODUS 20:8-11.
GENESIS 2:1-3 [1], Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. [2], And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] on the SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made. [3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY: because that in it he had RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] from all his work which God created and made.
Links to God’s 4th Commandment
EXODUS 20:8-11 [8], REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY [Made Holy at creation GENESIS 2:3]. [9], Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: [10], But THE SEVENTH DAY [ Genesis 2:1-3] IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD : in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates: [WHY?] [11], FOR IN SIX DAYS THE LORD MADE HEAVEN AND EARTH, THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM IS, AND RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY; WHEREFORE THE LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY. [Refering to GENESIS 2:1-3]
Not hard read the scripture. Look at the HEBREW WORD meanings again...
GENESIS 2:1-3 [1], Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. [2], And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] on the SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made. [3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY: because that in it he had RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] from all his work which God created and made.
The Hebrew word for RESTED used here is שׁבת; shâbath (H7673). It's meaning is; to repose, that is, desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causatively, figuratively or specifically): - (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, KEEP SABBATH, suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.
שׁבת; shâbath or REST (H7673) is the ROOT word for שׁבּת; shabbâth (H7676) which is used in God's 4th commandments translated into english as SABBATH. The HEBREW Word for shabbâth meaing is the intermission between SABBATHS or shâbath (H7673) REST or the continuation meaing from one SABBATH REST to the Next SABBATH REST continuation or EVERY SABBATH. It's application is in God's 4th commandment EXODUS 20:8 is to REMEMBER [EVERY] Sabbath [shabbâth H7676].
In the 4th commandment *EXODUS 20:8-11; v11 tells us the ORIGINS of God's 4th commandments Sabbath is in reference to GENESIS 2:1-3 and the reason why it is given as a memorial of Greation to whorship God as the creator of Heaven and Earth.
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Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - H7673
REST from GENESIS 2:1-3 שׁבת ;shâbath shaw-bath' A primitive root; to REPOSE, that is, desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causatively, figuratively or specifically): - (cause to, let, make to) cease, CELEBRATE, cause (make) to fail, KEEP SABBATH, suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) REST, rid, still, take away.
Can you see your error here brother?
Nonsense...HEBREWS 4:9 , THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH."
Nonsense. There was NO ISREAL and NO JEW when the SABBATH was made for all of mankind *GENESIS 2:1-3; MARK 2:27-28 and when God made it one of the 10 commandments for his people to observe as an everlasting convenant *EXODUS 20:8-11; EXODUS 31:16.
Hope this helps
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
Excuse me....Maybe you should re-read
Matthew 12:8--" For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day"
Mark 2:27-28..
27--"And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28--"Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath"
There is no where in Matthew 12:8 and
Mark 2:27-28..
Where Jesus Christ said that the Sabbath as being the Lord's day.
Jesus Christ said he was Lord of the Sabbath day..but nothing about the Sabbath day as being the Lord's day..
First you have to distinguish between the difference of being the Lord of the Sabbath day and the Lord's day..
When Jesus Christ said that he is even Lord of the Sabbath day...
This means that in Sabbath day that Jesus Christ has jurisdiction over the earth and heaven.. everything above and everything that is below in the sea and air.
In the 4th commandment clearly shows the Lord has having the jurisdiction over the heaven and earth, the sea and all that is in them..
Exodus 20:11--"For in six days the Lord made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that is in them is, and rested the seventh day; wherefore the Lord bless the blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it"
There is no where the Lord said the Sabbath day...as being the Lords day..
There is only one Lord's day..that is the second coming of Jesus Christ being his day..
Jesus Christ said that he is Lord of the Sabbath day..
But never said the Sabbath day as being the Lord's day.
Look..let's for say..a person birthday falls on June 16...Now when that day comes around they are Lord of that day..
But not claiming it as their very own day.
Otherwise no one else can claim it as their day nor to find it on any calendars.
Because it only belongs to that person and no one else.
The Lord's day..only belongs to Jesus Christ and to no one else..
But Satan wants to claim the Lord's day has his day..but it's not..
Satan will come masquerading to deceive the world into believing that he is the Lord Jesus Christ and that he has come on the Lord's day...but it's a counterfeit day.
For the true Lord's day is when the real Jesus Christ comes on his Lord's day.
Therefore the Lord's day has nothing to do with the Sabbath day or Sunday...
But everything to do with the second coming of Christ Jesus..as being Jesus Christ Lord's day.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
Your absolutely positively right.. as Christians we are called to rest in Jesus Christ and not on any given day of the week no more..
Jesus Christ said in Matthew 11:28--"Come unto me, all you that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest"
Notice that Jesus Christ said he will give you rest..
Jesus Christ never said anything about resting on any day of the week..
But he would give you rest..
Per Matthew 11:28-"and I will give you rest"
Therefore as Christians we now rest in Jesus Christ and not on any given day of the week no more..
Hope this helps you..Thank you
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
No need to be excused my dear friend FC welcome here. I would like to address your post in detail here to show from the scriptures only as a help, why I believe your post is not correct, so I will break this reply down into two posts as you have made two claims in your post here. 1. That the LORD'S DAY in REVELATION 1:10 is not in reference to the SABBATH DAY and 2. THE LORDS DAY in REFVELATION 1:10 is in reference to the second coming or DAY OF THE LORD.
So the first post will look at showing why I believe the LORD'S DAY is in reference to the SABBATH DAY and continuing from the first post, the second post will also show why "THE LORD'S DAY in REVELATION 1:10 cannot be "THE DAY OF THE LORD (Second coming). I hope you can consider these posts in the Spirit in which they have been given and prayerfully read what is posted and shared with you like one of God's faithful Bareans.
PART 1/2
REVELATION 1:10 THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY WHY?
Here let me help you find, the "LORDS DAY" in the scriptures you have provided in relation to the "SABBATH DAY".
REVELATION 1:10 [10] I WAS IN THE SPIRIT ON THE LORD'S DAY, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
The Greek words used for the day that JOHN was in the Spirit of is the for LORD'S DAY are
REVELATION 1:10 εγενομην εν πνευματι εν τη κυριακη ημερα και ηκουσα οπισω μου φωνην μεγαλην ως σαλπιγγος
The word "κυριακη" (translit. "kuriake") is an Adjective - Dative - Singular - Feminine. This means it is being used as a 'possessive' as ownership or belonging to ("of", see 1 Corinthians 11:20, "the Lord's supper"), which means the "day" in context belongs to "the Lord". It is literally "the Lord's (belonging to) day". This means, that the "day" in context is uniquely "the Lord's" out of all the 7 days of the week, for the day under consideration is that which exists within the week, as a day which repeats weekly. This is extremely important, as those who incorrectly assume it to mean "the first [day] of the week" in lieu of Jesus' resurrection, cannot get a weekly occurrence out of a one-time event, in fulfilment of typology of the Firstfruit/Wavesheaf in Leviticus 23:9-14, as made known in 1 Corinthians 15:20,23..
In ISIAIAH 58:13, we read of a "day" that "the Lord" specifically calls "my day" as in ownership or belonging to:
ISAIAH 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from THE SABBATH, from doing thy pleasure on MY HOLY DAY; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
In many translations of Isaiah 58:13 we read that the 7th day, the sabbath of the Lord, is said to be "the Lord's holy day", with the word holy being another adjective, while the "Lord's" is possessive. - /Isaiah 58:13 - Bible Gateway
There is only one that he has BLESSED and made HIS HOLY DAY OF REST and has commanded his people to REMEMBER and keep *GENESIS 2:1-3; EXODUS 20:8-11
God's "OWNERSHIP" of the SABBATH DAY or "LORD'S DAY is also repeated elsewhere as "MY" (ownership of the day as in the Greek used in REVELATION 1:10 κυριακη)
EXODUS 31:12-18 [12] Then the Lord said to Moses, [13] Say to the Israelites, You must observe MY SABBATHS (belonging to; ownership to the Lord; or LORD'S DAY). This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.
MATTHEW 12:8 as well as MARK 2:27-28 show that JESUS is GOD and the CREATOR of HEAVEN and EARTH as witnessed by MOSES in GENESIS chapters 1 and 2.
JESUS says that he is the LORD (CREATOR) even of the SABBATH DAY. It is the LORDS DAY because on the SABBATH DAY JESUS; Set the SEVENTH DAY of the week apart for mankind as a HOLY DAY. On the SEVENTH DAY of CREATION GOD (JESUS) BLESSED the SEVENTH DAY, and SET IT APART as a HOLY DAY for mankind (BEFORE THE FALL) to REST with GOD. *GENESIS 2:1-3.
What these scriptures prove is that the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH is the LORDS DAY that he set apart for mankind and show he is the creator of HEAVEN and EARTH. Now JOHN in REVELATION 1:10 knew that JESUS is the creator GOD and he refers to the SABBATH DAY as the LORD'S DAY *MATTHEW 12:8. These are God's WORD brother (not mine) and they disagree with you because there is no scripture that says SUNDAY is "THE LORDS DAY" but JESUS says he is the LORD (CREATOR) even of the SABBATH DAY *MATTHEW 12:8. JOHN in reference to being in the Spirit on “THE LORDS DAY REVELATION 1:10 is referring to JESUS as the creator of heaven and earth and the SABBATH DAY that GOD rested, blessed and made holy for mankind on the SEVENTH DAY of creation is the one day in seven that God claims as His own.
So now we have looked at the GREEK application and word meanings as well as parrallel scriptures of the LORD'S OWNERSHIP of the SABBATH DAY from the old testament. Let's look at the new testament scriptures that define what day is THE LORDS DAY asking the question...
WHICH DAY IS THE LORDS DAY OR THE DAY?
MATTHEW 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY. (LORD'S OWNERSHIP)
MARK 2:27-28 [27], And he said to them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:[28], THEREFORE THE SON OF MAN IS LORD OF THE SABBATH. (LORD'S OWNERSHIP)
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CONCLUSION: Based on the Greek words used and the old and new testament scriptures as shown above THE LORD'S DAY is in reference to the day that the LORD claims as his own that has it's origin in creation that he rested, blessed and set apart as a holy day for all mankind. THE LORDS DAY therefore that JOHN was in the Spirit on in REVELATION 1:10 is the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH that belongs to God who claims ownership of in both the old and new testament scriptures.
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3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
PART 1/2
THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT THE DAY OF THE LORD (second coming) WHY?
For starters in the previous post we looked at the GREEK word meaings used in REVELATION 1:10 that show that THE LORDS (κυριακη) DAY used in REVELATION 1:10 is in reference to the LORDS OWNERSHIP OF THE DAY or the DAY BELONGING TO THE LORD that JOHN was in the Spirit of. We also demonstrated that the SABBATH DAY (seventh day) is the day belonging to the LORD from both the old and new testament scriptures.
The Greek words used here for "THE LORD'S DAY" are different to the scripture references of "DAY OF THE LORD" which most of the scriptures are in reference to and in context of the Hebrew scriptures for second coming. For example...
ACTS 2:20, The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the GREAT AND NOTABLE DAY OF THE LORD COME
You can see here that the context of application of "DAY OF THE LORD" is applied to the "SECOND COMING" as to the DAY OF THE LORD'S COMING. The GREEK words used here are not the same as those used in REVELATION 1:10 which is in reference to "THE LORD'S DAY" or the LORDS OWNERSHIP OF THE DAY that JOHN was in the Spirit of. The Greek words used for "DAY OF THE LORD" is in context to the second coming is ημέραν κυρίου. For example...
ACTS 2:20 , ο ήλιος μεταστραφήσεται εις σκότος και η σελήνη εις αίμα πριν η ελθείν την ημέραν κυρίου την μεγάλην και επιφανή
The Greek meaning in context is to the second coming that will be a day that is great and notable that the LORD GOD will COME! It is not the same as "LORDS DAY" κυριακή G2960 which means "belonging to or ownership of the day that JOHN was in the Spirit on in REVELATION 1:10. The Greek word used here as κυριακή G2960 is only used here in REVELATION 1:10 to the LORDS OWNERSHIP OF THE DAY and in the LORD'S SUPPER in 1 CORINTHIANS 11:20.
So we could stop here as that GREEK use of LORD'S DAY is not the same as DAY OF THE LORD but it would be good to also point out the nearly every applicaiton to "DAY OF THE LORD" and there are many scriptures here is in reference only to the second coming in both the old and new testament scripture. There is only two applications in the scriptures that use κυριακή G2960 and that is to something belonging to the Lord and that is the SABBATH DAY and the LORD'S SUPPER.
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CONCLUSION: Based on the Greek words used and the old and new testament scriptures as shown above THE LORD'S DAY is in reference to the day that the LORD claims as his own that has it's origin in creation that he rested, blessed and set apart as a holy day for all mankind. THE LORDS DAY therefore that JOHN was in the Spirit on in REVELATION 1:10 is the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH that belongs to God who claims ownership of in both the old and new testament scriptures. THE DAY OF THE LORD is not the same as THE LORDS DAY and different Greek words are used to show that application to THE DAY OF THE LORD is to the second coming and not the LORD'S ownership of the day as in THE LORDS DAY.
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There is no scripture that teaches "SUNDAY" is "THE LORD'S DAY as THE LORDS DAY according to the scriptures is the SABBATH DAY and THE DAY OF THE LORD IS ALSO NOT THE LORD'S DAY in REVELATION 1:10. I believe THE LORD'S DAY was the day that John was in the Spirit of which as shown in the scriptures is the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH. I hope you can consider these scriptures in the posts and the Spirit that they have been given and shared with you and receive God's Word and be blessed.
Hope this is helpful
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