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The Lord's Day, is it really Sunday?

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Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
No need to be excused my dear friend FC welcome here. I would like to address your post in detail here to show from the scriptures only as a help to you why your post is not correct, so I will break this reply down into two posts as you have made two claims in your post here. 1. That the LORD'S DAY in REVELATION 1:10 is not in reference to the SABBATH DAY and 2. THE LORDS DAY in REFVELATION 1:10 is in reference to the second coming or DAY OF THE LORD.

So the first post will look at showing why I believe the LORD'S DAY is in reference to the SABBATH DAY and continuing from the first post, the second post will also show why "THE LORD'S DAY in REVELATION 1:10 cannot be "THE DAY OF THE LORD (Second coming). I hope you can consider these posts in the Spirit in which they have been given and prayerfully read what is posted and shared with you like one of God's faithful Bareans.

PART 1/2

REVELATION 1:10 THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY WHY?

Here let me help you find, the "LORDS DAY" in the scriptures you have provided in relation to the "SABBATH DAY".

REVELATION 1:10 [10] I WAS IN THE SPIRIT ON THE LORD'S DAY, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

The Greek words used for the day that JOHN was in the Spirit of is the for LORD'S DAY are

REVELATION 1:10 εγενομην εν πνευματι εν τη κυριακη ημερα και ηκουσα οπισω μου φωνην μεγαλην ως σαλπιγγος

The word "κυριακη" (translit. "kuriake") is an Adjective - Dative - Singular - Feminine. This means it is being used as a 'possessive' as ownership or belonging to ("of", see 1 Corinthians 11:20, "the Lord's supper"), which means the "day" in context belongs to "the Lord". It is literally "the Lord's (belonging to) day". This means, that the "day" in context is uniquely "the Lord's" out of all the 7 days of the week, for the day under consideration is that which exists within the week, as a day which repeats weekly. This is extremely important, as those who incorrectly assume it to mean "the first [day] of the week" in lieu of Jesus' resurrection, cannot get a weekly occurrence out of a one-time event, in fulfilment of typology of the Firstfruit/Wavesheaf in Leviticus 23:9-14, as made known in 1 Corinthians 15:20,23..

In Isaiah 58:13, we read of a "day" that "the Lord" specifically calls "my day":

ISAIAH 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from THE SABBATH, from doing thy pleasure on MY HOLY DAY; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

In many translations of Isaiah 58:13 we read that the 7th day, the sabbath of the Lord, is said to be "the Lord's holy day", with the word holy being another adjective, while the "Lord's" is possessive. - /Isaiah 58:13 - Bible Gateway

There is only one that he has BLESSED and made HIS HOLY DAY OF REST and has commanded his people to REMEMBER and keep *GENESIS 2:1-3; EXODUS 20:8-11

God's "OWNERSHIP" of the SABBATH DAY or "LORD'S DAY is also repeated elsewhere as "MY" (ownership of the day as in the Greek used in REVELATION 1:10 κυριακη)

EXODUS 31:12-18 [12] Then the Lord said to Moses, [13] Say to the Israelites, You must observe MY SABBATHS (belonging to; ownership to the Lord; or LORD'S DAY). This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.

MATTHEW 12:8 as well as MARK 2:27-28 show that JESUS is GOD and the CREATOR of HEAVEN and EARTH as witnessed by MOSES in GENESIS chapters 1 and 2.

JESUS says that he is the LORD (CREATOR) even of the SABBATH DAY. It is the LORDS DAY because on the SABBATH DAY JESUS; Set the SEVENTH DAY of the week apart for mankind as a HOLY DAY. On the SEVENTH DAY of CREATION GOD (JESUS) BLESSED the SEVENTH DAY, and SET IT APART as a HOLY DAY for mankind (BEFORE THE FALL) to REST with GOD. *GENESIS 2:1-3.

What these scriptures prove is that the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH is the LORDS DAY that he set apart for mankind and show he is the creator of HEAVEN and EARTH. Now JOHN in REVELATION 1:10 knew that JESUS is the creator GOD and he refers to the SABBATH DAY as the LORD'S DAY *MATTHEW 12:8. These are God's WORD brother (not mine) and they disagree with you because there is no scripture that says SUNDAY is "THE LORDS DAY" but JESUS says he is the LORD (CREATOR) even of the SABBATH DAY *MATTHEW 12:8. JOHN in reference to being in the Spirit on “THE LORDS DAY REVELATION 1:10 is referring to JESUS as the creator of heaven and earth and the SABBATH DAY that GOD rested, blessed and made holy for mankind on the SEVENTH DAY of creation is the one day in seven that God claims as His own.

So now we have looked at the GREEK application and word meanings as well as parrallel scriptures of the LORD'S OWNERSHIP of the SABBATH DAY from the old testament. Let's look at the new testament scriptures that define what day is THE LORDS DAY asking the question...

WHICH DAY IS THE LORDS DAY OR THE DAY?

MATTHEW 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY. (LORD'S OWNERSHIP)

MARK 2:27-28 [27], And he said to them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:[28], THEREFORE THE SON OF MAN IS LORD OF THE SABBATH. (LORD'S OWNERSHIP)

.............

CONCLUSION: Based on the Greek words used and the old and new testament scriptures as shown above THE LORD'S DAY is in reference to the day that the LORD claims as his own that has it's origin in creation that he rested, blessed and set apart as a holy day for all mankind. THE LORDS DAY therefore that JOHN was in the Spirit on in REVELATION 1:10 is the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH that belongs to God who claims ownership of in both the old and new testament scriptures.

First of all had you read Revelation 1:10..
"I was in the spirit on the Lord's Day, and heard behind me a great voice as of a trumpet"
Do you understand..John was in the spirit on the Lord's day.. John was witnessing the second coming of Jesus Christ..
The Lord's day being the second coming of Christ Jesus and John was standing on that day to give witness of what was being revealed to him. Throughout the book of Revelation..the whole book of Revelation is all about the Lord's day.. being Jesus Christ second coming is the Lord's day..
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
PART 1/2

THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT THE DAY OF THE LORD
(second coming) WHY?

For starters in the previous post we looked at the GREEK word meaings used in REVELATION 1:10 that show that THE LORDS (κυριακη) DAY used in REVELATION 1:10 is in reference to the LORDS OWNERSHIP OF THE DAY or the DAY BELONGING TO THE LORD that JOHN was in the Spirit of. We also demonstrated that the SABBATH DAY (seventh day) is the day belonging to the LORD from both the old and new testament scriptures.

The Greek words used here for "THE LORD'S DAY" are different to the scripture references of "DAY OF THE LORD" which most of the scriptures are in reference to and in context of the Hebrew scriptures for second coming. For example...

ACTS 2:20, The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the GREAT AND NOTABLE DAY OF THE LORD COME

You can see here that the context of application of "DAY OF THE LORD" is applied to the "SECOND COMING" as to the DAY OF THE LORD'S COMING. The GREEK words used here are not the same as those used in REVELATION 1:10 which is in reference to "THE LORD'S DAY" or the LORDS OWNERSHIP OF THE DAY that JOHN was in the Spirit of. The Greek words used for "DAY OF THE LORD" is in context to the second coming is ημέραν κυρίου. For example...

ACTS 2:20 , ο ήλιος μεταστραφήσεται εις σκότος και η σελήνη εις αίμα πριν η ελθείν την ημέραν κυρίου την μεγάλην και επιφανή

The Greek meaning in context is to the second coming that will be a day that is great and notable that the LORD GOD will COME! It is not the same as "LORDS DAY" κυριακή G2960 which means "belonging to or ownership of the day that JOHN was in the Spirit on in REVELATION 1:10. The Greek word used here as κυριακή G2960 is only used here in REVELATION 1:10 to the LORDS OWNERSHIP OF THE DAY and in the LORD'S SUPPER in 1 CORINTHIANS 11:20.

So we could stop here as that GREEK use of LORD'S DAY is not the same as DAY OF THE LORD but it would be good to also point out the nearly every applicaiton to "DAY OF THE LORD" and there are many scriptures here is in reference only to the second coming in both the old and new testament scripture. There is only two applications in the scriptures that use κυριακή G2960 and that is to something belonging to the Lord and that is the SABBATH DAY and the LORD'S SUPPER.

....................

CONCLUSION: Based on the Greek words used and the old and new testament scriptures as shown above THE LORD'S DAY is in reference to the day that the LORD claims as his own that has it's origin in creation that he rested, blessed and set apart as a holy day for all mankind. THE LORDS DAY therefore that JOHN was in the Spirit on in REVELATION 1:10 is the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH that belongs to God who claims ownership of in both the old and new testament scriptures. THE DAY OF THE LORD is not the same as THE LORDS DAY and different Greek words are used to show that application to THE DAY OF THE LORD is to the second coming and not the LORD'S ownership of the day as in THE LORDS DAY.

.............

There is no scripture that teaches "SUNDAY" is "THE LORD'S DAY as THE LORDS DAY according to the scriptures is the SABBATH DAY and THE DAY OF THE LORD IS ALSO NOT THE LORD'S DAY in REVELATION 1:10. I believe THE LORD'S DAY was the day that John was in the Spirit of which as shown in the scriptures is the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH. I hope you can consider these scriptures in the posts and the Spirit that they have been given and shared with you and receive God's Word and be blessed.

Hope this is helpful


well all I can say is..that you do not know the difference between Sabbath day and the Lord's day..
Not only that..the Sabbath day was to lead Israel to Jesus Christ and now that Jesus Christ did come and died on the cross and Resurrection...that now as Christians we rest in Jesus Christ and not on any given day of the week no more..

It seems you need to be taught the difference between the Sabbath day and the Lord's day.
Two completely different days..
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
If your referring to GENESIS 26:5 and this use of the Hebrew word for Abraham keeping God's LAW's the Hebrew word used is TORAH which includes both God's law (10 commandments) and the laws for remission of sins (animal sacrifices and burnt offerings and sin offerings). As posted earlier the bibles definition of sin is breaking any one of God's 10 commandments *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11 and not believing God's Word *ROMANS 14:23.

Not one of the passages of scripture that you quote says that the law is to be understood as the Ten Commandments exclusively.

Romans 3:20. ':for by the law is the knowledge of sin.'
Romans 7:7. 'I had not known sin, but by the law.'
1 John 3:4. ': for sin is the transgression of the law.'
James 2:10,11. 'For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.'

Romans 14:23. ': for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.'

Romans 14:23 tells us, implicitly, that Abraham did not follow the weekly Sabbath. Abraham lived by faith [Hebrews 11], but following a weekly sabbath is not an act of faith, but obedience to an earthly, and religious, law. The Mosaic law was necessary because of Israel's transgressions [Galatians 3:19].

Hebrews 4, if you read it all, is not about the weekly sabbath. It is about the rest that comes with Christ's kingdom on earth, when all men serve the Lord [Daniel 7:14]. This takes place on God's seventh day, the seventh thousand of years after Adam [1 Peter 3:8].

The Gospel of grace, lived by Christ and preached by Paul, encourages us to look heavenward, and not to attach ourselves to this world, or, dare I say it, to religion.

I'm with FaithofChristian and Shmogie in seeing grace as a call to break from legalism.

'But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever. Amen.' [2 Peter 3:18]
 
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3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
First of all had you read Revelation 1:10..
"I was in the spirit on the Lord's Day, and heard behind me a great voice as of a trumpet"
Do you understand..John was in the spirit on the Lord's day.. John was witnessing the second coming of Jesus Christ.. The Lord's day being the second coming of Christ Jesus and John was standing on that day to give witness of what was being revealed to him. Throughout the book of Revelation..the whole book of Revelation is all about the Lord's day.. being Jesus Christ second coming is the Lord's day..

Nonsense, my friend all you have done here is hand waiving and ignored all the scriptures and greek application of REVELATION 1:10 in reference to "THE LORDS DAY" and "DAY OF THE LORD" that shows why your claims are in error in post # 519 linked and post 520 linked. Did you want to address these posts you have ignored first? I am happy to talk about the context of REVELATION 1:10 which is not the second coming after you have considered the last two posts if you like? REVELATION 1:10 is in CONTEXT to JOHN being in the presence of JESUS in the Heavenly Sanctuary and not the second coming as you claim here. This is shown in REVELATION 1:11-17.

May you receive God's Word and be blessed. Ignoring God's Word does not make it disappear.
 
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3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
well all I can say is..that you do not know the difference between Sabbath day and the Lord's day..
Not only that..the Sabbath day was to lead Israel to Jesus Christ and now that Jesus Christ did come and died on the cross and Resurrection...that now as Christians we rest in Jesus Christ and not on any given day of the week no more..

It seems you need to be taught the difference between the Sabbath day and the Lord's day.
Two completely different days..

I see, so because you say so it must be so. I see your not able to respond to the posts and scriptures and the Hebrew and Greek word applications within the scriptures or the context shown that shows why I believe you are in error but that is ok as I guess you have no desire to know God's Word so I will leave that with you and God to work through. Let me know when you want to discuss the scriptures and the posts shared only in love and as a help to you. Untill then we will agree to disagree. :)
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Well my friend all you have done here is hand waiving and ignored all the scriptures and greek application of REVELATION 1:10 in reference to "THE LORDS DAY" and "DAY OF THE LORD" that shows why your claims are in error in post # 519 linked and post 520 linked. Did you want to address these posts you have ignored first?

I am happy to talk about the context of REVELATION 1:10 which is not the second coming after you have considered the last two posts if you like? REVELATION 1:10 is in CONTEXT to JOHN being in the presence of JESUS in the Heavenly Sanctuary and not the second coming as you claim here. This is shown in REVELATION 1:11-17.

May you receive God's Word and be blessed. Ignoring God's Word does not make it disappear.


That's bc I do not follow the teachings of man's.
Further more the whole book of Revelation is all about the Lord's day as Jesus Christ second coming..
There's only one precise day that Jesus Christ will come on and that day being the Lord's day... the day of Jesus Christ second coming the Lord's day.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
That's bc I do not follow the teachings of man's.
Further more the whole book of Revelation is all about the Lord's day as Jesus Christ second coming..
There's only one precise day that Jesus Christ will come on and that day being the Lord's day... the day of Jesus Christ second coming the Lord's day.

You are indeed following the teachings of men in my opinion if you seek to ignore God's Word and follow man made teachings that are no biblical. The is why you will not address the scriptures provided in in post # 519 linked and post 520 linked that show why you are in error. SUNDAY is a man made teaching and tradition that JESUS warns us about the breaks the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:2-9 and if we break it just like any other of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin. If we continue in sin there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgement to come *HEBREWS 10:26-27.
 
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Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
I see, so because you say so it must be so. I see your not able to respond to the posts and scriptures and the Hebrew and Greek word applications within the scriptures or the context shown that shows why I believe you are in error but that is ok as I guess you have no desire to know God's Word so I will leave that with you and God to work through. Let me know when you want to discuss the scriptures and the posts shared only in love and as a help to you. Untill then we will agree to disagree. :)


Nope not at all are you in a disagreement with me...but with Jesus Christ himself are you in a disagreement with.
thank you and have a wonderful great day.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Nope not at all are you in a disagreement with me...but with Jesus Christ himself are you in a disagreement with.
thank you and have a wonderful great day.

If that were true you would be able to show why? So far all you have done is ignore God's Word so if I have only share God's Word with you who is in disagreement with JESUS me or you and if I have only provided God's Word then why do you not believe it? Only God's Word is true my dear friend and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:2-9. You denying God's Word is simply you denying JESUS who is the Word of God *JOHN 1:1-4; 14.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Are you are indeed following the teachings of men. The is why you will not address the scriptures provided in in post # 519 linked and post 520 linked that show why you are in error. SUNDAY is a man made teaching and tradition that JESUS warns us about the breaks the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:2-9 and if we break it just like any other of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin. If we continue in sin there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgement to come *HEBREWS 10:26-27.

I know what your trying to do..but it's not going to work with me..
what your trying to do is like trying to compare apples and oranges as being the same thing..and their not the same..

The Sabbath day and the Lord's day are two completely different days.
But you are trying to combine them as being the same day and their not the same day and that will not work..at least not with me..
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
I know what your trying to do..but it's not going to work with me..
what your trying to do is like trying to compare apples and oranges as being the same thing..and their not the same..

The Sabbath day and the Lord's day are two completely different days.
But you are trying to combine them as being the same day and their not the same day and that will not work..at least not with me..

Prove it then? All your doing is ignoring the scripture in the post that have only been shared with you in friendship and saying you disagree without showing or proving why you disagree or addressing these posts. You have been provided God's Word but your choosing not to believe and follow it. In response all you have said is no... You are free to believe as you wish but denying God's Word when he gives us a knowledge of His truth calls all men everywhere to believe and follow it. We have looked at the the scriptures applied to THE LORDS DAY and DAY OF THE LORD as well as the Greek and the context all of which disagree with you. From what I can see your repsonse so far has only been to close your eyes. I only say this in all honesty and love as I only wish the best for you. Ignoring God's Word does not make it disappear. It will be our judge come judgement day *JOHN 12:47-48
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
3rdAngel said: If your referring to GENESIS 26:5 and this use of the Hebrew word for Abraham keeping God's LAW's the Hebrew word used is TORAH which includes both God's law (10 commandments) and the laws for remission of sins (animal sacrifices and burnt offerings and sin offerings). As posted earlier the bibles definition of sin is breaking any one of God's 10 commandments *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11 and not believing God's Word *ROMANS 14:23.

Your response...

Not one of the passages of scripture that you quote says that the law is to be understood as the Ten Commandments exclusively.

I have never said that the Greek or Hebrew word application to law is always to God's 10 commandments but the scriptures provided to you earlier absolutely are in reference to God's 10 commandments. When using the Hebrew (Torah) or Greek word (nomos or entole) it is the application and the context of the scriptures that determine the subject matter being addressed.

Let's look at the detail?

HEBREW AND GREEK

NEW TESTAMENT Law 3551 nomos
-anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command: a) used of any law whatsoever 1) a law or rule producing a state approved of God, by the observance of which is approved of God 2) a precept or injunction 3) the rule of action prescribed by reason b) used of the Mosaic law, and referring (according to the context) either to the volume of the law or to its contents c) the Christian religion: the law demanding faith, the moral instruction given by Christ, especially the precept concerning love d) the name of the more important part (the Pentateuch), is put for the entire collection of the sacred books of the Old Testament

OLD TESTAMENT Law # 8451 towrah torah from 3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: KJV-- law. Direction, instruction a) instruction, direction (human or divine) 1) the body of prophetic teaching 2) instruction in the Messianic age 3) the body of priestly direction or instruction 4) the body of legal directives b) law 1) law of the burnt-offering 2) used of special law, codes of law c) custom, manner d) the Deuteronomic or Mosaic Law.

Not every time the Greek word nomos (LAW) is used means 10 commandments it is the scripture context that determines the Word application to what law is being referred to. The application in the scriptures within the scripture context can refer to the law collectively (all laws ceremonial, moral and civil) *MATTHEW 5:17 or individually such as the ceremonial laws for remission of sins *HEBREWS 10:1 or the 10 commandments *ROMANS 7:7.

Looking at the within scripture and chapter contexts of all the scriptures shared with you earlier you will see that their application is to God's 10 commandments *EXODUS 20:1-17 of which God's 4th commandment SEVENTH DAY SABBATH is one of God's 10 commandments that PAUL says if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God *JAMES 2:10-11.

Let's look at the contexts...

ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN BUT BY THE LAW: FOR I HAD NOT KNOWN LUST, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID, YOU SHALL NOT COVET.

Context, application and subject matter used here in this scripture is to the 10 commandments quoting the 10th commandment so application is to God's 10 commandments showing that God's 10 commandments give us the knowledge of what sin is.

This is what PAUL was talking about earlier in ROMANS 3:19-20 showing that all both JEWS and GENTILES are all under sin because all have broken God's 10 commandments..

ROMANS 3:19-20 [20], Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

Context, application and subject matter is sin and God's LAW and God's 10 commandments. God's 10 commandments giving us a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is. This is also shown in the writings of JAMES...

JAMES 2:10-11 [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

Once again you can see here PAUL AND JAMES are in agreement that if we break any one of God's 10 commandments which is the subject matter being discussed we stand guilty before God of sin because God's 10 commandments give us a knowledge of what sin is when we break them. JAMES is specifically quoting the 6th and 7th commandment of thou shalt not kill and though shalt not commit adultery from the 10 commandments which is the subject matter of the Greek word nomos (LAW) from EXODUS 20:13-14 which PAUL directly quotes and applies nomos to thou shalt not covet from the 10 commandments in EXODUS 20:17.

The three five scriptures provided above all show context and subject matter and application of the greek word used for nomos here to God's 10 commandments so application of the scriptures is to the 10 commandments. This same thought and subject is also considered by JOHN who also defines sin in the same manner here...

1 JOHN 2:1-2 [1], My little children, THESE THINGS I WRITE UNTO YOU THAT YOU SIN NOT. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

NOTE: The CONTEXT and reson why JOHN is writting this epistle is what? v1 THESE THINGS I WRITE UNTO YOU THAT YOU SIN NOT. It goes on to say if any man sin we have an advocate with the father. This leads us into v3-4

[3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4], HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND KEEPS NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM .

NOTE: So the reason for JOHN'S epistle is that THAT WE SIN NOT v1. Then in v3-4 it says

HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND KEEPS NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

Now notice carefully what Commandments in God's WORD are associated with sin if broken or another way of asking the same question would be what is sin because the reason why JOHN is writting his epistle is that we sin not. JOHN also defines SIN as braking God's LAW just as PAUL and JAMES has done here...

1 JOHN 3:4 [4] WOSHEVER COMMITS SIN TRANSGRESSES THE LAW: for SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

...................

CONCLUSION: it is the context and subject matter of the scriptures and chapters that determine the application of the Hebrew word Torah and Greek words nomos and entole that determine what laws are being discussed either collectively or individually. The scriptures provided to you earlier are in reference to God's 10 commandments as it is the 10 commandments that are the context and subject matter being discussed and quoting directly from Exodus 20.


Hope this is helpful
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Romans 14:23 tells us, implicitly, that Abraham did not follow the weekly Sabbath.

Well let's look at your claims in detail RS, as I wish to show why I do not believe them and want to show why I do not believe your claims are biblical. My reason for sharing the detail here is to only provide help to you or anyone else who may be following along.

ROMANS 14:23 says does not say Abraham did not follow the weekly Sabbath... ROMANS 14:23 teaches that if we do not believe and follow God's Word it is sin. Sin as shown above is also breaking any one of God's 10 commandments of which Gods 4th commandment Sabbath is one of the 10 commandments that if we break we commit sin.

ROMANS 14:23 And he that doubts is damned if he eat, because he eats not of faith: for WHATSOEVER IS NOT OF FAITH IS SIN.

Nope nothing about the Sabbath there that I can see o_O

Abraham lived by faith [Hebrews 11], but following a weekly sabbath is not an act of faith, but obedience to an earthly, and religious, law. The Mosaic law was necessary because of Israel's transgressions [Galatians 3:19].

Nonsense. Let's be honest. Please tell me if God's Word tells us to do something and we do not do it then are we living by faith? Living by faith is believing and doing what God's Word says. Not doing what God's Word says is not living by faith as the scriptures teach these same thoughts in JAMES 2:18-20; 26

Hebrews 4, if you read it all, is not about the weekly sabbath. It is about the rest that comes with Christ's kingdom on earth, when all men serve the Lord [Daniel 7:14]. This takes place on God's seventh day, the seventh thousand of years after Adam [1 Peter 3:8].

The context of HEBREWS 4 is the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH...

HEBREWS 4
[1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[2], For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[3], For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
[4], For he spoke in a certain place of the SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And God did rest the SEVENTH DAY from all his works.
5,
And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 4:1-5

NOTE: CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD [the GOSPEL] enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. CONTEXT is GOD's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who believe or do not believe God's WORD do not enter into that rest.

[6], Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
[7], Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
[8], For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
[9] SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

[10], For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his. [11], Let us labor therefore to enter that rest, [God’s REST the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH] lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief [rejecting God’s WORD and sin; Hebrews 3].

KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 4:9

Now notice Hebrews 4, verse 9: “SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.” In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.” But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismo means “a keeping of the Sabbath.” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.”

HEBREWS 4:9 [9], SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

The translation for "Keeping Sabbath" comes from the Greek word that is used in Hebrews 4:9, σαββατισμός, pronounced sabbatismos, which is a noun form that means Sabbath rest, Sabbath (keeping) observance (Arndt and Gingrich, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament).

This definition of the Greek word σαββατισμός sabbatismos is confirmed by other historical works: The words 'keeping sabbath' or sabbath rest is translated from the GK noun sabbatismos, [and is] a unique word in the NT.

This term appears also in Plutarch (Superset. 3 [Moralia 166a]) for sabbath observance or keeping, and in four post-canonical Christian writings which are not dependent on Heb. 4:9 (The Anchor Bible Dictionary, Vol. 5, p. 856).

The Greek word, σαββατισμός sabbatismos, is a noun. The verb form of the word is σαββατίζω sabbatizo, which means to keep the Sabbath (Arndt and Gingrich, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament)

.............

CONCLUSION
: HEBREWS 4 is talking about the Gospel rest of BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD; v29 Learn of me; v30 my burden (doing) is light. This agrees with Hebrews 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. HEBREWS 4:1-11 is in reference to GOD'S REST which God's WORD defines is the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH which is the CONTEXT shown in HEBREWS 4:1-5. HEBREWS 4 therefore with context added is saying that no one enter God's Sabbath rest if they do not BELIEVE AND FOLLOW God's WORD.

Hope this helps..
 
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Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Your response...



I have never said that the Greek or Hebrew word application to law is always to God's 10 commandments but the scriptures provided to you earlier absolutely are in reference to God's 10 commandments. When using the Hebrew (Torah) or Greek word (nomos or entole) it is the application and the context of the scriptures that determine the subject matter being addressed.

Let's look at the detail?

HEBREW AND GREEK

NEW TESTAMENT Law 3551 nomos
-anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command: a) used of any law whatsoever 1) a law or rule producing a state approved of God, by the observance of which is approved of God 2) a precept or injunction 3) the rule of action prescribed by reason b) used of the Mosaic law, and referring (according to the context) either to the volume of the law or to its contents c) the Christian religion: the law demanding faith, the moral instruction given by Christ, especially the precept concerning love d) the name of the more important part (the Pentateuch), is put for the entire collection of the sacred books of the Old Testament

OLD TESTAMENT Law # 8451 towrah torah from 3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: KJV-- law. Direction, instruction a) instruction, direction (human or divine) 1) the body of prophetic teaching 2) instruction in the Messianic age 3) the body of priestly direction or instruction 4) the body of legal directives b) law 1) law of the burnt-offering 2) used of special law, codes of law c) custom, manner d) the Deuteronomic or Mosaic Law.

Not every time the Greek word nomos (LAW) is used means 10 commandments it is the scripture context that determines the Word application to what law is being referred to. The application in the scriptures within the scripture context can refer to the law collectively (all laws ceremonial, moral and civil) *MATTHEW 5:17 or individually such as the ceremonial laws for remission of sins *HEBREWS 10:1 or the 10 commandments *ROMANS 7:7.

Looking at the within scripture and chapter contexts of all the scriptures shared with you earlier you will see that their application is to God's 10 commandments *EXODUS 20:1-17 of which God's 4th commandment SEVENTH DAY SABBATH is one of God's 10 commandments that PAUL says if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God *JAMES 2:10-11.

Let's look at the contexts...

ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN BUT BY THE LAW: FOR I HAD NOT KNOWN LUST, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID, YOU SHALL NOT COVET.

Context, application and subject matter used here in this scripture is to the 10 commandments quoting the 10th commandment so application is to God's 10 commandments showing that God's 10 commandments give us the knowledge of what sin is.

This is what PAUL was talking about earlier in ROMANS 3:19-20 showing that all both JEWS and GENTILES are all under sin because all have broken God's 10 commandments..

ROMANS 3:19-20 [20], Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

Context, application and subject matter is sin and God's LAW and God's 10 commandments. God's 10 commandments giving us a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is. This is also shown in the writings of JAMES...

JAMES 2:10-11 [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

Once again you can see here PAUL AND JAMES are in agreement that if we break any one of God's 10 commandments which is the subject matter being discussed we stand guilty before God of sin because God's 10 commandments give us a knowledge of what sin is when we break them. JAMES is specifically quoting the 6th and 7th commandment of thou shalt not kill and though shalt not commit adultery from the 10 commandments which is the subject matter of the Greek word nomos (LAW) from EXODUS 20:13-14 which PAUL directly quotes and applies nomos to thou shalt not covet from the 10 commandments in EXODUS 20:17.

The three five scriptures provided above all show context and subject matter and application of the greek word used for nomos here to God's 10 commandments so application of the scriptures is to the 10 commandments. This same thought and subject is also considered by JOHN who also defines sin in the same manner here...

1 JOHN 2:1-2 [1], My little children, THESE THINGS I WRITE UNTO YOU THAT YOU SIN NOT. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

NOTE: The CONTEXT and reson why JOHN is writting this epistle is what? v1 THESE THINGS I WRITE UNTO YOU THAT YOU SIN NOT. It goes on to say if any man sin we have an advocate with the father. This leads us into v3-4

[3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4], HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND KEEPS NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM .

NOTE: So the reason for JOHN'S epistle is that THAT WE SIN NOT v1. Then in v3-4 it says

HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND KEEPS NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

Now notice carefully what Commandments in God's WORD are associated with sin if broken or another way of asking the same question would be what is sin because the reason why JOHN is writting his epistle is that we sin not. JOHN also defines SIN as braking God's LAW just as PAUL and JAMES has done here...

1 JOHN 3:4 [4] WOSHEVER COMMITS SIN TRANSGRESSES THE LAW: for SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

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CONCLUSION: it is the context and subject matter of the scriptures and chapters that determine the application of the Hebrew word Torah and Greek words nomos and entole that determine what laws are being discussed either collectively or individually. The scriptures provided to you earlier are in reference to God's 10 commandments as it is the 10 commandments that are the context and subject matter being discussed and quoting directly from Exodus 20.


Hope this is helpful

Yes, I agree that the context is all important. That is why I am saying to you that the use of 'torah' in Genesis 26:5 is not about the Ten Commandments! Abraham lived before the giving of the law at Sinai, and is therefore not under the law, the covenant made by God with Israel. But you are insisting that Abraham was following the fourth commandment!

Abraham lived by faith, and followed all the commandments and instructions given to him by God. He did not require a set of laws obligating him to follow God (with all the associated punishments for non compliance) because he always listened to the voice of God and did as he was asked. This included taking his own son to Moriah as a burnt offering. Why would he do this if he had committed no sin ie. broken no laws? For one reason only, because he lived by faith. His trust in God had been built from an early age, and he had no need of laws to oblige him to act in an obedient manner.

In the present age of grace, within the body of Christ, the Church, we should all live by faith. We have received the promise of the Spirit that Abraham looked forward to, and we are now able to listen to the Lord and act as He directs, without need of the law. Not that we act outside of God's law, but because love always acts within the moral law.

The commandment that we should now be following is the commandment to love our neighbour, as Christ loved us. And to love our neighbour with the love of God, we must be born again of His Spirit. His Spirit is the Word within us!
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Yes, I agree that the context is all important. That is why I am saying to you that the use of 'torah' in Genesis 26:5 is not about the Ten Commandments! Abraham lived before the giving of the law at Sinai, and is therefore not under the law, the covenant made by God with Israel. But you are insisting that Abraham was following the fourth commandment!
Not really RS. I do not believe your post is biblical whatsoever. Why? The scripture application to GENESIS 26:5 says Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. The Hebrew word for laws is plural application to Torah. This is all laws meaning all sacrificial and moral laws that collectively make up the Torah. You have been provided the scriptures pre Mt Sinia to prove this. You were also shown through the scriptures that before the written Word of God there was the spoken word of God and that God's people knew God's laws before the written Word of God was given at Mt Sinai in post # 509 linked that you are yet to respond to.
Abraham lived by faith, and followed all the commandments and instructions given to him by God. He did not require a set of laws obligating him to follow God (with all the associated punishments for non compliance) because he always listened to the voice of God and did as he was asked. This included taking his own son to Moriah as a burnt offering. Why would he do this if he had committed no sin ie. broken no laws? For one reason only, because he lived by faith. His trust in God had been built from an early age, and he had no need of laws to oblige him to act in an obedient manner. In the present age of grace, within the body of Christ, the Church, we should all live by faith. We have received the promise of the Spirit that Abraham looked forward to, and we are now able to listen to the Lord and act as He directs, without need of the law. Not that we act outside of God's law, but because love always acts within the moral law.
Your confused here brother. Faith without works is dead meaning if you do not believe and follow God's Word the scriptures teach your faith is dead meaning it is non existent *JAMES 2:18-20; 26. Are you really trying to argue you can have faith without doing what God Word says? God's Word says the devils believe and tremble. Why? Because they know God's Word is true but do not follow what God's Word says. As the scriptures teach "it is not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven." MATTHEW 7:21. No one has faith or believes God if they do not do what God says according to the scriptures.
The commandment that we should now be following is the commandment to love our neighbour, as Christ loved us. And to love our neighbour with the love of God, we must be born again of His Spirit. His Spirit is the Word within us!
You cannot separate law and love as it is only by love that God's law is fulfilled in the life of those who believe God's Word *ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31. This is the new covenant promise and what it means to have a new heart and to be born again *HEBREWS 8:10-12; JOHN 3:3-7. Those who are born again do not practice sin (breaking God's LAW) *1 JOHN 3:9. JESUS says on these two great commandments of love hang all the law and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40.
If love is demonstrated by obedience to God's law *ROMANS 13:8-10, how can you show love by breaking it? Love is not separate from God's LAW my dear friend it fulfills it and is why JESUS says on these two commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets.

Do you love JESUS RS?
 
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Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Living by faith is believing and doing what God's Word says.

Actually, there is a difference between living by faith and doing works of the law. But the law is also part of God's word.

Romans 3:28. 'Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.'

Galatians 3:12. 'Now the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.'

Can you see the difference? Faith is 'the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.' [Hebrews 11:1] On the other hand, following a law, such as the law to rest on the weekly sabbath, does not require faith. It only requires that you DO it.
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Not really RS. I do not believe your post is biblical whatsoever. Why? The scripture application to GENESIS 26:5 says Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. The Hebrew word for laws is plural application to Torah. This is all laws meaning all sacrificial and moral laws that collectively make up the Torah. You have been provided the scriptures pre Mt Sinia to prove this. You were also shown through the scriptures that before the written Word of God there was the spoken word of God and that God's people knew God's laws before the written Word of God was given at Mt Sinai in post # 509 linked that you are yet to respond to.

Your confused here brother. Faith without works is dead meaning if you do not believe and follow God's Word the scriptures teach your faith is dead meaning it is non existent *JAMES 2:18-20; 26. Are you really trying to argue you can have faith without doing what God Word says? God's Word says the devils believe and tremble. Why? Because they know God's Word is true but do not follow what God's Word says. As the scriptures teach "it is not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven." MATTHEW 7:21. No one has faith or believes God if they do not do what God says according to the scriptures.

You cannot separate law and love as it is only by love that God's law is fulfilled in the life of those who believe God's Word *ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31. This is the new covenant promise and what it means to have a new heart and to be born again *HEBREWS 8:10-12; JOHN 3:3-7. Those who are born again do not practice sin (breaking God's LAW) *1 JOHN 3:9. JESUS says on these two great commandments of love hang all the law and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40.
If love is demonstrated by obedience to God's law *ROMANS 13:8-10, how can you show love by breaking it? Love is not separate from God's LAW my dear friend it fulfills it and is why JESUS says on these two commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets.

Do you love JESUS RS?

I'll tell you this with all honesty, 3rdAngel. I have discovered a love that is not my own. The love I have found is Christ's love, and it is shed forth with the Holy Spirit that Jesus sends to those who repent and believe.

I think you have things the wrong way around. You seem to think that by doing God's law you will demonstrate love. This is no different to the commandments given under the law [Deuteronomy 6:5]. You are still doing them by your own will and by your own 'might'.

I believe that repentance is the point at which we acknowledge our own failure to be righteous. We choose instead to follow the Master, and accept His righteousness as our own. This means being born again of His Spirit, and walking by His Spirit in faith. We must lose our pride and become as nothing of worth.

'Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.' [Romans 7:4]
 
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3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
3rdAngel said: Living by faith is believing and doing what God's Word says.
Your response...
Actually, there is a difference between living by faith and doing works of the law. But the law is also part of God's word.

Romans 3:28. 'Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.'
Galatians 3:12. 'Now the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.'

Can you see the difference? Faith is 'the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.' [Hebrews 11:1] On the other hand, following a law, such as the law to rest on the weekly sabbath, does not require faith. It only requires that you DO it.

I believe your still confused here brother. The scriptures you have provided here are in relation to people who think they can be saved or have salvation by the works of the law when salvation is already been provided through Christ as a free gift so not relevant to our conversation as no one is telling you this whatsoever. No one is telling you that you are saved by what you do as that is the extreme in the opposite direction of those who believe God's Word and do not do what God's Word says.

According to the scriptures we are only saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW what Gods Word says. Doing what God's Word says is the FRUIT of faith that works by a new heart that LOVES given in the new covenant promise of a new heart *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *ROMANS 6:1-23; JOHN 8:31-36. This is God's work in us * PHILIPPIANS 2:13.

If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. You cannot separate faith and works according to the scriptures just the same as you cannot separate love and law as it is the fruit of OBEDIENCE to God's Word which is how love to God and man is expressed. This is the same as how we express our faith by doing what God asks us to do.

God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who do not hear do not follow *JOHN 10:26-27.
 
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3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
3rdAngel wrote: Do you love JESUS RS?
Your response...
I'll tell you this with all honesty, 3rdAngel. I have discovered a love that is not my own. The love I have found is Christ's love, and it is shed forth with the Holy Spirit that Jesus sent to those who repent and believe.

JESUS says... JOHN 14:15 IF you love me keep my commandments.

Repentance is from sin (breaking God's commandments) because sin is breaking any one of God's 10 commandments *JAMES 2:10-11; ROMANS 7:7; ROMANS 3:20; 1 JOHN 3:4 and not believing and following God's Word *ROMANS 14:23. No one has God's Spirit if they reject God's Word because God's Spirit is the Spirit of the Word *JOHN 6:63.

I think you have things round the wrong way. You seem to think that by doing God's law you will demonstrate love. This is no different to the commandments given under the law [Deuteronomy 6:5]. You are still doing them by your own will and by your own 'might'.

What you believe here only shows you are not hearing the scriptures shared with you as it is not what I believe whatsoever. As posted in the last post just to make it clear to you again I believe the scriptures teach that we are only saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of faith and God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW what Gods Word says. Doing what God's Word says is the FRUIT of faith that works by a new heart that LOVES given in the new covenant promise in *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *ROMANS 6:1-23; JOHN 8:31-36. This is God's work in us * PHILIPPIANS 2:13.

If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. You cannot separate faith and works according to the scriptures just the same as you cannot separate law and love as it is the fruit of faith to God's Word which is how love to God and man is expressed *ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4; GALATIANS 5:16 and is why JESUS says on these two great commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40.

.............

According to the scriptures I believe God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9) There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God? In times of ignorance God winks at but now, <when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

According to the scriptures, God is calling his people out from the fallen Church's where ever they may be to come out from following man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God back to whorship him in Spirit and in truth back to the pure Word of God

God's Sheep Hear His Voice and follow him. Those who do not hear do not follow *JOHN 10:26-27. My prayer is that we may all not be of those who do not hear and do not follow as JESUS will say in that day depart from me you who practice sin, I never knew you *MATTHEW 7:21-26.

If we continue in sin (breaking any one of Gods commandments) when we have been given a knowledge of the truth according to the scriptures, there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgement to come because those doing so count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing and reject the gift of God's dear son *ACTS 17:30-31; HEBREWS 10:26-39; ROMANS 6:23

May you receive God's Word and be blessed.
 
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sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I see, so because you say so it must be so
HA!!! That’s precisely your M.O.: You say so, therefore it must be so. Everything you’ve posted as “evidence” and “proof” is nothing more than your “interpretations” of texts, and your beliefs with regard to what authority the church has to make changes. None of this has any bearing on The Way Things Really Are.
 
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