IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
You keep putting up similar posts to this. Perhaps if you say it 100x it will come true.
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"THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES
- Thread starter 3rdAngel
- Start date
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Nope. I put them up because it is already true. If you disagree please post me a single scripture that proves Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10. There is none and none have been posted anywhere in this OP. We are still waiting.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I have already amply replied to you. My posts are there for everyone to read. I do not intend to repeat myself just because you are in denial.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
So I was correct right? Thats a no then you have no scripture, that proves Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10 just like the OP proves. You just proved my point. Thank you I like talking to you. Yes I am happy your posts are there for everyone to read as none of them prove what you say. Does this not worry you? It should.
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3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
So now that is cleared up lets post it up again with updated post numbers...
SUMMARY TO DATE
So 152 pages and 3024 posts to date and not a single scripture that proves Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10. Where as proven in the OP Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath day (Matthew 12:8). Matthew 15:3-9 is a warning from Jesus saying that if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from Gods Word to breaking the commandments of God then we are not worshiping God. This is applicable to this OP because Sunday worship is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word into breaking Gods' seventh day Sabbath commandment in Exodus 20:8-11. This is what makes these scriptures directly relevant to this discussion. Jesus says in these scriptures if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word into breaking the commandments of God we are not worshiping God. Begs the question who are we worshiping God or man? This will be the test that will come to everyone of us. We have all been taught lies at Sunday school. Something to pray about. God is calling us all back to His Word to worship Him in Spirit and in truth.
SUMMARY TO DATE
So 152 pages and 3024 posts to date and not a single scripture that proves Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10. Where as proven in the OP Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath day (Matthew 12:8). Matthew 15:3-9 is a warning from Jesus saying that if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from Gods Word to breaking the commandments of God then we are not worshiping God. This is applicable to this OP because Sunday worship is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word into breaking Gods' seventh day Sabbath commandment in Exodus 20:8-11. This is what makes these scriptures directly relevant to this discussion. Jesus says in these scriptures if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word into breaking the commandments of God we are not worshiping God. Begs the question who are we worshiping God or man? This will be the test that will come to everyone of us. We have all been taught lies at Sunday school. Something to pray about. God is calling us all back to His Word to worship Him in Spirit and in truth.
freelight
Soul Pioneer
Well, as it may be well known that the 7th day Saturday is the traditional Jewish Sabbath, there are many christians who do not see all the OT laws as applicable to themselves anyways, as they can pick, choose and re-interpret new ideas into their version of the 'New Covenant' as they please, so any assumption of strict adherence to that particular 'rule' may not apply,....not a worry or concern! Thats for Torah only believers, Pharisees
If 'christians' wanna worship on 'SUN-day', then let them enjoy their pagan holy-day, many ancient pagan cults worshipped the SUN as a representation of 'God', being the source of all Light and Life, - sun = son/christ as well....by analogy. After all, 'God' is both LIGHT and LIFE, so is the 'Christ'
- the sun is a solar symbol for 'God'.Who cares? Does 'God' really care, so that as long as you worship him always, moment to moment always mindful of his omnipresence? I'm not sure it matters really, neither is it a requirement of 'salvation' beyond a religous custom or time of special meditation set aside on a particular day (take your pick), if you would choose a one day out of 7 routine to follow or not. The debate will be just as well entertained from God's presumed perspective and man's multiple opinions on the subject.
I think Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is within you, and in your midst (omnipresent!), because 'God' is SPIRIT. 'God' is not limited to a particular religious tradition, cult or location, as Jesus said all true worshippers will reverence 'God' in spirit and truth, regardless of day or location (John 4:24).
~*~*~
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
There was no Jews when God made the Sabbath for all mankind according to the bible see Mark 2:27 and Genesis 2:1-3. According to the scriptures Gods seventh day Sabbath commandment gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11). According to Jesus no one is worshiping God if they follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead them to break the commandments into sin and unbelief (see Matthew 15:3-9; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11; John 3:36; Matthew 7:21-23 and Hebrews 10:26-31). Begs the question then, who do we choose to believe and follow; God or man? This is the testing question that will come to everyone of us according to the scriptures.
Take Care
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Again????? How many times are you going to upload the same post?
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Again what? Its not the same post. There was 152 pages and 3024 posts at the time the post was written showing that there is not a single scripture that proves Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10. Where as the OP proves Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath day in Matthew 12:8.
freelight
Soul Pioneer
But Jews wrote that book for themselves, being part of their belief-system/cult-ure, so it is a uniquely 'Jewish' convention/invention
You would also have to have 'faith' that the record is valid or has value, - back to personal acceptance and 'faith'. I'm agnostic about it, but as I touched on earlier, we may worship Deity every day, if not every moment by mindful living, spiritual awareness and meditation. One can get overly legalistic about rules. If we take the 'principle' figuratively...we may be able to apply such more liberally. I'm not so sure about it. Of course it may be significant or pending to someone who accepts the 'scripture' or is considering such within a 'scriptural context',....but for those who do not hold to such standards or have their own interpretation thereof, it may be more or less irrelevant, as one may feel they can worship 'God' without such prescriptions, set holy-days/feasts or other conventions. These may be fine as part of a religious routine or custom, but may be not essential for a free spirit
Since my body is God's temple, I can enjoy his presence always, abiding in perpetual rest/wholeness in Him, abiding in his Spirit, being one with him in Christ....this rest and kindgom is a perpetual dwelling. 'God' himself (Spirit/Christ) is ones sabbath! I respect your choice to observe the Sabbath on the 7th Day with like minded devotees
Go with where your spirit leads......~*~*~
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Your response here..
God giving the torah to mankind through the Jews does not negate the fact that according to the scriptures there was no Jews when God made the Sabbath for all mankind according to the bible see Mark 2:27 and Genesis 2:1-3. According to the scriptures Gods seventh day Sabbath commandment gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11). According to Jesus no one is worshiping God if they follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead them to break the commandments into sin and unbelief (see Matthew 15:3-9; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11; John 3:36; Matthew 7:21-23 and Hebrews 10:26-31).But Jews wrote that book for themselves, being part of their belief-system/cult-ure, so it is a uniquely 'Jewish' convention/invention
According to the scriptures if we neglect Gods Word and do not believe and obey what Gods Word says we are still in our sins and unbelief and will be lost according to the scriptures (see John 3:36; Matthew 7:21-23; 1 John 2:3-4 and Hebrews 10:26-31). Faith in Gods Word is what literally saves us from our sins and leads us to receiving Gods grace and forgiveness of sins (see Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 10:17; John 3:36; Matthew 7:21-23; 1 John 5:2-4)
According to the scriptures sin is defined in the new testament as (1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11; John 3:36 and Romans 14:23) as the breaking of anyone of Gods 10 commandments and not believing and obeying what Gods Word says. Sin is what separate us from God and His Spirit (Isaiah 59:2) and receiving Gods Spirit according to the scriptures in Acts 5:31; Acts 2:38; Acts 3:19 is conditional on us believing and obeying what Gods Word says. Therefore no one has Gods Spirit if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says. According to 1 John 3:6-10 those who practice known unrepentant sin are the children of the devil while those who do not practice sin are the children of God. So it is not Gods Spirit that leads us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God. That would be the spirit of the devil who seeks to lead us away from God and His Word into sin and unbelief. Thank you for sharing. May you receive Gods correction through His Words and be blessed. We have all been taught lies at Sunday school. God is calling us all out from following man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9 back to His Word to worship Him in Spirit and in truth (John 4:23-24). Gods sheep will hear His voice (the Word) and follow him (John 10:26-27) while those who choose not to hear will not follow and be lost (Matthew 7:21-23).Since my body is God's temple, I can enjoy his presence always, abiding in perpetual rest/wholeness in Him, abiding in his Spirit, being one with him in Christ....this rest and kindgom is a perpetual dwelling. 'God' himself (Spirit/Christ) is ones sabbath! I respect your choice to observe the Sabbath on the 7th Day with like minded devotees
Take care.
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Oeste
Well-Known Member
Absolutely correct!
It's amazing, one verse and the whole notion that Christians must keep a Sabbath is reproved.
I like the way Paul used marriage as a metaphor. Just as the death of a partner releases one from the marriage vow, so does the death of Christ release us from the law. We are now free to pursue grace.
How many times must you be shown this?
The first day of the week is resurrection day. It has nothing to do with the Sabbath. However, if it's necessary for you to believe that Christians have "replaced" the Sabbath with Resurrection Day in order for you to celebrate your Sabbath, then go for it! I would rather you believe that than have you stumble.
Jesus IS Lord 3rdAngel, EVEN of the Sabbath, not JUST on the Sabbath.
In other words, he is the Lord EVERY day, and not just one day out of the week.
Your arguments would be far more credible if you could show our Christian Lord isn't Lord on Sunday or any other day but Saturday. If he's Lord only on the 7th day, but not other days then yes, I can absolutely see why you would claim God must be worshipped on the 7th day...and the 7th day only.
That has been your claim @3rdAngel, but 152 pages later and you have yet to show which Christian group(s) teach the commandments were abolished. A doctrinal statement from a well known, established church would do. At best, your argument, if there is one, is most likely attributed to a small portion of the Christian community.
If you know we are saved by grace because we have all sinned, then what is the point of your post, except to boast about "keeping" a dubious version of the Sabbath?
If you could show that the Sabbath does a better job of saving then Jesus does, you may have one mighty powerful argument, but we're already 152 pages into this and no convincing argument has been made.
You may also want to show where the Sabbath is quoted to Gentiles in the New Testament. That seems to be missing too.
Of course Romans 14 is talking about the Sabbath! Let's look at verse 6 again:
"He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it"
Are you going to tell us you don't observe the 7th day to the Lord?
"He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks"
No matter which way you spell it, whether you observe or whether you eat, Romans 14 applies.
Also, it appears that you may have missed the forest for the trees here. Read the first verse again. Romans 14 is NOT simply talking about eating or not eating food on certain days. Food is simply given as an example. Romans 14 is talking about those who have weak faith.
"Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters." Romans 14:1
Given your replies and accusations of "lawlessness", I think that ship has sailed, but let's continue:"One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind"
Will you now convince us you do no consider the Sabbath sacred? Perhaps more sacred pr special than another??
The point of Romans 14 is very clear. The more we rely on eating, the more we rely on our own works, the more we rely on special days, the less faith we show in the finished works of Jesus.
Relying on our own works shows weak faith, but those who rely on Jesus show a stronger faith. However, this does not mean we get to gloat over those whose faith is weaker, because it's not us that will make them stand, it is our Lord God, Jesus!
You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat.
So whether we keep the Sabbath or not, we will all stand before God's. I don't think any of us will have much to boast about then.
But there is good news:
Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
Our master is Christ, and we cannot judge his servants as "lawless" because the judgement is his alone, and it is he, not the Sabbath, that will make us stand before God, even those who have stumbled or are weak in faith.
So we are dead to the law by the body of Christ, despite any number of pages or protestations claiming otherwise. We are cleansed by his blood, even when others call us dirty, and we live and have life, even if we die, because of his victory. I trust he died for me, that I might live, so I have no need to trust in a Sabbath. Others do, and I do not begrudge them. If keeping a Sabbath helps someone live in Christ, why should I complain?
Rather I would simply encourage them to live their lives, without fear of a missed or kept observance, and remain confident, as much as their faith allows them to, in the redemptive power of Christ.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
It is absolutely wrong to claim we are alive in love by being dead to obeying Gods law. This is a contradiction of the scriptures and is a teaching of lawlessness. According to the scriptures love is not separate from obeying Gods law. Love is expressed by obeying what Gods law says from a new heart that has been born again to love which is a part of Gods new covenant promise (see Romans 13:8-10; John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:10-12). Obeying Gods law from the heart by loving God and neighbor according to the scriptures is how Gods law is obeyed in those who are born to walk in God's Spirit (see Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; Galatians 5:16) and why Jesus says that on these two great commandments of love to God and man (Jesus is quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 in Matthew 22:36-40) "Hang all the law and the prophets" (Matthew 22:36-40). So to claim we can love God and neighbour while breaking Gods law simply shows we do not love God or our fellow man and are still in our sins which is the very definition of breaking Gods law in 1 John 3:4. Love to God and man therefore are demonstrated in obeying Gods law from the heart through love which fulfills the righteous requirements of the law to both God and man and Gods new covenant promise (see Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:34-37) revealed in all those who have been born again to walk in Gods Spirit (compare John 33:3-7; 1 John 3:6-9; 1 John 2:3-4; Galatians 5:16). According to the scriptures in 1 John 2:3-4 those who claim to know God but break His commandments are liars and the truth is not in them. I will break my post into smaller ones to address your large post and make it easier for you to respond and for others to read. (more to come).
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3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
To make the claim that Romans 7 is teaching that it is now alright to disobey Gods law is a teaching of lawlessness which is not a teaching of the bible and a teaching that disregards the contexts of Romans 6:1-23 and Romans 8:1-13 that does not agree with a teaching of lawlessness and sin. The context of Romans 7:1-25 is Romans 6:1-23 where it is clearly stated that we are not to continue in sin which is defined in the scriptures are breaking Gods law in 1 John 2:3-4. For example the context of Romans 7:1-5 is Romans 6:1-23 where Paul is asking the question in Romans 6:1-2 "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin (breaking Gods law), that grace may abound? 2, God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? So to claim that Roman 7 we are no longer required to obey Gods law is to disregard scripture context that states we we are not to live in sin which is defined in the scriptures (1 John 3:4) as breaking Gods law. Romans 6 is using baptism as a metaphor and teaches that we are to die to our old man of sin (breaking Gods law) and walk in newness of life to walk in Gods Spirit obeying Gods law (see Romans 6:3-4; Romans 6-7; Romans 6:8-23).
Pretty much the whole chapter contexts of Romans 6:1-23 and Romans 8 disagrees with your interpretation that Romans 7 is teaching that we are now free to break Gods law in fact it teaches the opposite. According to the scriptures, Romans 7 continues the same teaching of Romans 6 that our old man that we are married before we become married to Christ has to die before we can be one with Christ and walk in newness of life. Romans 7 uses the metaphor this time of marriage to the old man of sin and showing that this man of sin must first die before we can be married to Christ and walk in newness of life. The law being spoken of is the law of sin and death working through our members *Romans 7:4-7 compare Romans 7:23). Paul is stating that it is sin that is the problem that the law reveals not the law that reveals sin and calls the law holy, just and good (Romans 7:7; Romans 7:12). Paul goes on to say in closing Romans 7 which outlines a life controlled by sin and death in v24, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25, I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." Sin starts in our mind and that is where we are to obey Gods law (see Matthew 5:28 on sin starting in the mind) from a new heart that loves God and our fellow man.
Romans 7 is talking about those who walk in the flesh (σάρξ (sárx | G4561) which means carnal mind or sinful human nature. Romans 7:25 is therefore saying if we continue walking in the flesh (carnal mind; sinful thoughts and feelings) we will follow the law of sin and death. Romans 8:1-4 continues showing how the new man in Christ walks in Gods Spirit (faith in Gods Word) by saying in Romans 8:1-4 1, There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2, For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3, For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4, That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. You do err not knowing the scriptures scriptures and teachings doctrines of devils. Gods Word nowhere from Genesis to Revelation teaches lawlessness. Sin is the very reason Jesus came into our world to save all mankind. The scriptures teach if you continue in known unrepentant sin you will die in your sins (see Hebrews 10:26-31; Matthew 7:13-23; 1 John 2:3-4). According to the scriptures sin (breaking Gods law) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil. Those who practice known unrepentant sin do not know God and are not His children according to 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6-10.
(more to come).
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3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
According to the scriptures sin is defined as breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments in 1 John 2:3-4; James 2:10-11; Romans 7:7 and Gods law teaches us that if wer break anyone of Gods commandments we have sinned against God and stand before God guilty of sin and death (see Romans 3:19-20). So this OP has nothing to do with making a difference between the resurrection of Jesus and the Sabbath which is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken according to the scriptures. The OP is simply showing that the claim that "the Lords day" is in reference to Sunday or the first day of the week as the resurrection day of Jesus is unsupported in the scriptures and that "the Lords day" is simply a reference to the Sabbath day that Jesus is Lord over being our creator (see Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:27-28) Sin however remains as sin in the bible which is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4) which includes Gods seventh day Sabbath which is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken (Exodus 20:3-17; Exodus 20:8-11; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and James 2:10-11).
There is not a single scripture from Genesis to Revelation that says Gods seventh day Sabbath commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday or the first day of the week as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. This is a man-made teaching and traditions handed down by the early Church that is not supported in the scriptures leading those who follow it away from God and His Word into breaking the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3:9. Jesus says that all those who follow the teachings and traditions of men that lead them away from God and His Word into breaking the commandments of God are not worshiping God. This will be the testing question that will come to everyone of us. Who do we choose to believe and follow; God or man? Will we bow down to the golden image of man or believe and obey what Gods Word says and be thrown into the fiery furnace of the ruler of this world and remain faithful to God and His Word?
(More to come)
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3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
According to the scriptures, Jesus is Lord and God because He is our creator and according to the scriptures at the end of creation God rested from all the work that He created and made and God blessed the seventh day of the week and made the the seventh day of the week a holy day of rest for all mankind (see Genesis 2:1-3 and Mark 2:27). God made the seventh day Sabbath one of His 10 commandments found in Exodus 20:8-11 that gives us the knowledge of good and righteousness when obeyed and sin and evil when disobeyed (see Psalms 119:172; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11). So why make arguments here no one has ever said to you. Is this not bearing false witness and sinning against God and your fellow man? Where did I ever say to you that the Lord is not Lord of any other day and that He is only Lord on the seventh day only? If you cannot show me where I have ever made these claims why pretend that is what I have said to you? I will leave that between you and God. Sin is the transgression of the law which includes lying and not keeping the Sabbath according to the scriptures (James 2:10-11).
(more to come)
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3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
According to the scriptures, anyone who teaches that anyone of Gods 10 commandments can can be broken is teaching lawlessness. Gods test to know if we know God or do not know God or if someone that claims to know God but does not know God is found in 1 John 2:3-4 where it is written in the scriptures "3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4, He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." and again Jesus says by their fruits you shall know them. That is who is from God and who is not (Matthew 7:16-20). So the test of scripture is very simple. We can know if we know God if we keep His commandments. If our profession of faith is one that leads us into a life of sin and disobedience to Gods law (sin) then according to the scriptures we do not know God and are lying if we tell others we do know him. and the truth is not in us (1 John 2:3-4).
According to the scriptures we are all saved by Gods grace that we receive through faith in Gods Word and their is nothing that we can to do earn Gods free gift of salvation because we have all sinned and broken Gods law and stand guilty before God of sin and death (see Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3:9; 19; 23 and Romans 6:23. If you mean you are dead to the law by not obeying Gods law then you are still in your sins and stand guilty before God of sin and death and need to repent and confess your sins in order to receive Gods forgiveness of your sins (see Proverbs 28:13; 1 John 2:1 and 1 John 1:9; John 3:36). As shown from the scriptures above love is not separate from obeying what Gods law says from the heart. No one loves God or their fellow man of they break Gods commandments they are living their life in sin which is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4) and if they continue in known unrepentant sin they will be a part of that group Jesus says "depart from me you who work iniquity, I never knew you" see Hebrews 10:26-31 and Matthew 7:21-23. It is not boasting to point people to Gods Word and to obey what Gods Word says and the bible Sabbath it is not a dubious Sabbath but one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken (Exodus 20:8-11; Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11). What is a dubious versone of the Sabbath is Sunday worship which is a man-made teaching and tradition unsupported by the scriptures which has led many away from God and His Word into breaking Gods Sabbath commandment which is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken. Sin is what separates us form God (Isaiah 59:2) and those who choose not to believe and obey what Gods Word says and continue in known unrepentant sin will be lost come judgement day according to the scriptures (see Hebrews 10:26-31 and Matthew 7:13-23). Being saved by Gods grace is conditional to receiving Gods grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). This faith comes as we choose to believe and obey what Gods Word says (Romans 10:17). Therefore Gods salvation is conditional to belieivng and obeying (faith) what Gods Word says.
All of Gods 10 commandments which also includes the Sabbath commandment are taught and repeated throughout the old and new testament scriptures by Jesus and the Apostles. Everyone of Gods 10 commandments are repeated in the new testament as the standard of good and evil; sin and righteousness and Gods law (10 commandments) are taught throughout the new testament by Jesus (Matthew 5:17-28; Matthew 19:17-21; Mark 10:17-21; Matthew 22:36-40; Matthew 15:3-9; John 14:15; John 15:10) Jesus also taught us how to correctly keep the Sabbath and that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (see Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56) and that He is Lord of the Sabbath that He made for all mankind (see Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:27-28. Happy to show a lot more scripture here just let me know? Hebrews 4:9 says "Therefore it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath".
(More to come)
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3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
According to the scriptures Romans 14 is talking about eating and not eating on days that men esteem over other days and judging others in this regard. Please show me where it says in Romans chapter 14 that the conversation is all about the Sabbath and not eating and not eating and drinking on days that men esteem over other days and judging others in this regard. If you cannot then you are reading into the scriptures what the scriptures do not say and do not teach in order to justify sin defined in the scriptures are transgression of the law (1 John 3:4). According to the scriptures, throughout the new testament, there was never any controversy in Paul's day over Sabbath keeping because like Jesus Paul and all the Apostles kept the Sabbath and all the commandments of God. It was Paul's custom as was Jesus and the Apostles to keep and obey Gods Sabbath commandment (see Matthew 28:1; Acts of the Apostles 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelation 1:10). In fact Jesus taught in Matthew 24:20 and Mark 13:18 that Gods people would be still keeping the Sabbath well after the death and resurrection. You do err not knowing the scriptures following the teachings and traditions of men leading you into unbelief and sin. Hebrews 4:9 "Therefore it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath." Ignoring Gods Word does not make them disappear. The words of God we choose to accept or reject become our judge come judgement day according to Jesus in John 12:47-48.
Take Care.
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Oeste
Well-Known Member
I agree!
However being alive in Christ is not being dead to God's law, and it is absolutely wrong to claim that we are disobeying God's law by obeying Christ.
Did you not read the scriptures? That's something they Pharisees would think 3rd Angel.
My friend, your argument is with scripture, not with me. Let's go over this again.
"In the same way, my brethren, you also were made dead to the marriage law of the Old Covenant by the body of Christ". (Romans 7:4)
Paul compares this to a marriage contract. In the past, we were married to the Old Covenant. While in the contract, you are bound to your spouse. Once the spouse dies, you are no longer bound, which is exactly why Christ died for us.
Wherefore my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ…
The “body of Christ” is the church, and once Christ died, we who claim Christ (the Church) are no longer bound to the law, we are bound to Christ. In fact, we become his bride:
…that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit from God.
So we are still married to who? The Old Covenant?? NO!
We are MARRIED to CHRIST. He claims us (the church) as his BRIDE so we are no longer MARRIED to the LAW!
The scripture is clear. We were once married to the law, but the law has become DEAD to us by the body of Christ (which is not only the body of Christ, but the church), or all those who claim Christ crucified. We are not, as you claim, somehow married to both, as no Christian can claim two brides, and neither our death to the law or our marriage to Christ is “lawlessness”, because Christ is our law.
But now we are released* from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. (Romans 7:6)
QUESTION: What does "released from the law" mean to you, @3rdAngel ? Does it mean "lawlessness"? 
Well it would, but you forget, our release* from the law ( Yes, it says "release"), does not mean we are now lawless, it simply means we are wedded to Christ. We are bound to Christ and NOT the law. We have FREEDOM in Christ, rather than CAPTIVITY in the law.This is what freedom in Christ is, 3rdAngel. It's freedom from the law, but it is not "lawlessness" because our bride is now Christ, rather than the law.
*katargéō (from 2596/katá, "down to a point," intensifying 691/argéō, "inactive, idle") – properly, idle down, rendering something inert ("completely inoperative"); i.e. of no effect, totally without force (completely brought down); done away with, cause to cease and therefore abolish; make invalid, abrogate (bring to nought); "to make idle or inactive" (so also in Euripides, Phoen., 753, Abbott-Smith
152 Pages... and counting!
I think this thread has done a great service to those who have been told or brought up thinking they might still be bound to the law, and I thank you for presenting a topic not oft addressed in the RF community it.
Adventists believe we are still bound to the law. Scripture clearly states we are released.
Adventists claim being released means we are "lawless". Scripture tells us our marriage to Christ means we are even more firmly bound to God.
From my standpoint, we can believe Adventists or we believe scripture. I think the majority of Christians have already made the correct choice and after reading this thread, can feel even more secure in their choice of Christ over the law.
Oeste
Well-Known Member
Who makes this claim that Romans 7 is teaching that it is now alright to disobey God's law???
I haven't seen this person posting here. Let this person speak up and show their self, that we may slay this heresy together!!!
I don't this this person is going to show up anytime soon, so let's get a little more into the nitty gritty, and wade into the weeds a bit.
Actually, they are both in the same context. We can't take the context of Romans 6:1-23 while ignoring the context of Romans 7:1-25. We should consider both, and not to the detriment of the other.
The first few chapters of Romans provides us with a rather concise synopsis of the gospel, establishing the pillars on which we rest doctrine.
Many churches don't rest their doctrines on these pillars, which is why they attack Paul. You've seen some attack Paul here.
I can say that we disagree on some "disputable matters" (Romans 7:1) 3rdAngel, but at least we don't disagree on Paul.
We don't disagree here. However, proclaiming Christ crucified instead of the law is not "sinning".
If you continue reading the scriptural context, you’ll find Paul compares this to a marriage contract. While in the contract, you are bound to your spouse. Once the spouse dies, you are no longer bound, which is exactly why Christ died for us.
Wherefore my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ…
The “body of Christ” is the church, and once Christ died, we who claim Christ (the Church) are no longer bound to the law, we are bound to Christ. In fact, we become his bride:
…that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit from God.
The scripture is clear. We were once married to the law, but the law has become DEAD to us by the body of Christ (which is not only the body of Christ, but the church), or all those who claim Christ crucified. We are not, as you claim, married to both, as no Christian can claim two brides, and neither our death to the law or our marriage to Christ is “lawlessness”. Neither are we married to the Law, as we are Christians, and thus married to Christ.
Who in your church claims they cannot marry another once their spouse had died? Yet, if you read the context of Romans 6 and 7, you will find our former, heavy yolk to the Old Covenant was likened to a marriage contract where Christ died to the Old so that we could rise with him in the New.
The veil in the temple was rent from top to bottom the moment Jesus died. We cannot sew or stitch the rent back together. We simply don't have the tools to do so, as this awaits the final arrival of our Messiah.
Christianity has already made a choice, and I certainly do not foresee a scenario where the church is accused or held guilty ("lawless") for placing all their faith in a risen Christ, rather than apportioning their faith between Jesus and the law. It seems like the Adventist, rather than expressing a total trust in our risen Savior, attempt to "cover their bets" by moving some of their faith onto the Sabbath.
From my standpoint, one can an either believe scripture or they can believe Adventists on this matter. This topic has already come up in the church, as mentioned by the Judaizers who mistakenly thought gentiles had become married to the law.