101G
Well-Known Member
where is Saturday/ Saturn's Day, the 7th. day by who's calendar? a man made calendar.
101G.
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"THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES
- Thread starter 3rdAngel
- Start date
101G.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Rest from work, which is what is commanded, is by definition a physical thing you do. The commandment is very clear on this.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work
If you are not doing that, then you are not keeping the sabbath.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Irrelevant. You are either resting from work on the sabbath, or you are not. All the nuances are worked out by the rabbis. If you decide you are going to mow your lawn, you are not keeping teh sabbath.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Your response here..
Not really 101G it is all about what the scripture say and teach and the scriptures in Romans 14 are talking about eating and not eating on days that men esteem over other day. It is not talking about the Sabbath anywhere in the chapter so you have to read that into the bible.
Your response here...
No, not at all. When Jesus died it was the beginning of the new covenant. The Apostles and the early Church continued to obey all of Gods' 10 commandments including God's 4th commandment "seventh day Sabbath" according to Gods' Word. God has always had a people that have kept His commandments including His 4th commandment as a holy day of rest to this very present day. There is not a single scripture in all the bible that says that Gods 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from Gods' Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9. We have all been taught lies at Sunday school by the same people that gave us Christmas, Santa Clause, Easter and the Easter bunny.
Your response here...
No one is holy by being disobedient to God and disobeying His Word.
Your response here...
As posted earlier what your proposing is not supported in the scriptures. There is not a single scripture in all the bible that says Gods 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a replacement for keeping God's 4th commandment as a holy day of rest. Breaking anyone of Gods' 10 commandments according to the scriptures is sin in the new covenant *see James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7
Your response here...
As posted earlier what you are saying is not supported in the scriptures. There is not a single scripture in all the bible that says Gods' 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest. This is a man-made teaching and tradition passed down by the early Roman Church from Constantine to mainstream Christianity.
Take Care.
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3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Happy New Years sis. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath day (Matthew 12:1-12). @IndigoChild5559 is also correct we are not to work on "the seventh day" of the week according to Gods' 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11 from Genesis 2:1-3). We have been lied to sis at Sunday school. Jesus is calling us all back to His Word (see John 4:23-23; Matthew 15:3-9) to worship Him in Spirit and in truth (John 17:17; John 6:63). This includes "Remembering" the Sabbath day to keep it holy" (Exodus 20:8). The only commandment God says to "remember" is the one He knew everyone would forget. This will be the final test coming to our world that each one of us will need to answer for ourselves. Who do I believe and follow; God or man? Something to pray about. Gods' sheep will hear His voice (the Word) and follow Him because they are His sheep (John 10:26-27).
God bless
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Actually, I don't think the law about the Sabbath is given to anyone but the Jews. Christians are fine if they don't observe the Sabbath. My problem is not with their non-observance, but with those few who say that they DO observe it, but then want to redefine what keeping the sabbath means.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
That is not true according to the scriptures though. In the new covenant according to the scriptures Gods' Israel are no longer those born of the flesh but are now all those who through faith are born of the Spirit by believing and following what Gods Word says. According to Gods' new covenant promise we are all Abraham's seed through faith and a Jew is not one in the flesh but one who has a new heart through the Spirit. In the new covenant there is no Jewish and Gentile believes as we have all been grafted in to Gods' Israel through faith as it is written...
- ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.
- ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
- GALATIANS 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE
- COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.
- ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.
- EZEKIEL 36:26-27 [26], A NEW HEART WILL I GIVE YOU, AND A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU; AND I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART OUT OF YOUR FLESH, AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH. [27], AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGEMENTS AND DO THEM.
- JEREMIAH 31:33-34 [33], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
- Hebrews 8:10-12 [10], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
- Ephesians 2:11-14 [11], Why remember, that you being in TIME PAST Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12], That AT THAT TIME [in the Past] YOU WERE WITHOUT CHRIST, BEING ALIENS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL, STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANT OF PROMISE, HAVING NO HOPE, AND WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD: [13], BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS, YOU WHO WERE FAR OFF ARE MADE NEAR BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.
God's ISRAEL is the name given by God to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. GENTILES are now grafted in (Romans 11:13-26). If you are not a part of the God's ISRAEL then you have no part in the NEW COVENANT. GOD'S ISRAEL therefore ARE ALL THOSE WHO BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GOD'S WORD. This of course includes Gods' 4th commandment which according to the new and old covenant scriptures give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4). According to James 2:10-11 if we break anyone of Gods' 10 commandments including Gods' 4th commandment, seventh day Sabbath we stand guilty of sin and breaking all of Gods' 10 commandments (see James 2:10-11 compare 1 John 3:4)
Take Care.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I reject any and all claims that believers in Jesus are somehow a New Israel that replaces Israel.
The Torah was not given to the world. It was given to Israel. "And the LORD said to Moses, Speak to the Children of Israel." So there is a lot in the Torah that Jews are responsible to obey, but which don't apply to the nations. Including Christians. For example, I have to refrain from lobster , you do not.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Then we are in disagreement. I reject any claim that is in disagreement with the scriptures as posted earlier so we will agree to disagree. The name Israel according to the torah is only a name given by God to His people who believe and follow what Gods' Word says. If we do not believe and follow what Gods' Word says we are not a part of Gods' Israel according to the scriptures.
Take Care.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I'm fine with disagreeing.
One of the reasons we disagree is that you clearly accept teh NT as an authority you can appeal to, and I don't see the NT as any different than the quran or vedas or book of mormon.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
I think this is the problem though as the New testament scriptures from Jesus and the Apostles testify of the promised Messiah foretold about in the Torah. In fact the New Testament scriptures come from the Old Testament torah. Have you ever wondered in your own mind what if your wrong and that Jesus was indeed Gods promised Messiah? Genuine question, I am just wondering what your thought process might be and if you have considered what if your wrong. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. Comparing the writings of Jesus and the Apostles to the quran and the book of Mormon have has no basis in fact or truth.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
You aren't going to convince me that the NT is the word of God. For one thing, it contradicts the essense of the Torah, which is what I go by. For another, I've had 61 years to look into this from all sides, and while I might have been more open to your remarks when I was younger, I am now pretty confident in what I have concluded from all these studies.
I compare the New Testament to the Quran, Vedas, and Book of Mormon because like them it is a religious text that hold no authority for me.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
You did not really answer my question but that is ok. We all answer only to God come judgement day according to the Torah. Funny how people can look at the details of the scriptures provided and come up with a different view of what the scriptures teach. I believe the Torah very clearly shows that Jesus is Gods' promised Messiah the Jews are still waiting for. I believe we cannot know Gods' Word unless God is our guide and teacher. So I guess we will agree to disagree because I do not have a single doubt that Jesus is the promised Messiah of the Torah and have been studying this for some time as well. Of course we both cannot be right which is why I asked you the question earlier that you did not answer. For me I believe your comparison to Jesus and the Apostles to the Quran and Book of Mormon is offensive slander to God, His Word and His promised Messiah in Jesus. So we will also of course agree to disagree and I will disregard your words here and leave them for you and God to work through whose help we all need.
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IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
And to me, when Christians say that a man is God, that is blasphemous. But I don't lecture them on long posts. You need to grow up and accept the fact that not everyone accepts your savior, or your bible, and that there is nothing rude or unseemly about them telling you that.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
There is nothing rude about people not believing and following God and His Word and I never said there was. It was your claim that the New testament scriptures are the same as the Quran and the book of Mormons that was the problem. Anyhow, we will agree to disagree. I will leave you waiting for your promised Messiah who in your mind has never turned up.
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
This, from you, is so funny:
- “As the scriptures clearly show that Jesus is the God of creation and that Jesus was at creation with God and was God ”
- Jesus created all things…
- Jesus was with God who created all things…
- Jesus was God…
No, 3rdAngel, there are two uses of the word ‘God in John 1:1…
- Most glorious; most powerful; most majestic; ruling entity
- The title of the deity of the Jews (in fact, the title of all ruling spirit deities in almost all religious beliefs)
And that word was [in view of the deity of the jews]
And that utterance was (1) an almighty, a majestic, a glorious, … utterance”
The ruling deity of the Jews, the only true God, spike the almighty word that started creation:
- ‘Let there be light’ (and more) - and it was so since the ruling word cannot be denied
A child was born (miraculously by the spirit of God, through a virgin girl) who was therefore not of the seed of Adam but by means of the spirit of God, the spirit of God that was used to blow breath into the lifeless body of the very first man in creation, Adam.
The CREATION of a human Being by means of the spirit of God means absolutely that such a creation is HOLY, SINLESS, and RIGHTEOUS.
So, “God’s word” (the utterance of the deity of the Jews) is an almighty undefinable word - it is ‘God of all utterances’.
So, the man, Jesus, is not ‘The Word’ (a title) but ‘the utterance’ of God. He is the saviour that God spoke of in the beginning.
My point in pursuing this with you, 3rdAngel, is to test your cognitive abilities, since you were so adamantly disagreeing with what scriptures says.
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
What is the name of the ‘Day of the week’ classed as ‘the Sabbath Day’?
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Can I ask you to have an understanding that the word, ‘GOD’ is just a title. And as a title it has a meaning, which is like:
- ‘The greatest’ in context of others of the same type
- ‘The most glorious’… (as above)
- ‘The ruling entity’… (as above)
- … more of the same
But we see in scriptures that many nations and tribes had those they believe are spiritual entities (often manifested as physical idols made in stone or wood). So in this regard, ‘GOD’ (a God) is just a reference to a SPIRITUAL RULER.
But since man is made in the image of God, and is capable of rulership over others of mankind (context!) then those designated can be called ‘GODs without blaspheming…
You see this clearly when Jesus is confronted by the jews who accuse him of ‘Making himself God’. Jesus is clearly was shocked at this claim of blasphemy and defended himself, saying;
- “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods"’? If he [Yahweh God] called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of [Yahweh] God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?“ (John 10:34-36)
And, an addendum: a ‘Son of God’ is not a procreated offspring of God. It simply means: ‘One who carries out the commands of God FULLY! Holy Angels, are spirit Sons; Adam was Son of God from humanity until he sinned. Jesus is continually Son of God from among humanity. Jesus qualified this definition in the following verse:
- “Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father” (John 10:26)
- ‘The GOD OF… the Jews’
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
But what did Jesus say regarding worship of God?
In the time of Jesus of the scriptures, all the Israelites and Samaritans worshipped together on one day. All daily work was limited to only essential activities since, before that, they were madd to work seven days a week under slavery. The call for a day of rest was a necessary law.
However, today, people can work different days but regulations and stipulations still demand at least one day of rest in any seven day period.
If that day of rest falls on a day that is not ‘Friday sundown to Saturday sundown’ are such people ‘Nreaking the Sabbath dag law’ if the worship ‘IN SOIRIT AND TRUTH’ on that rest day?