"THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES

[3rdAngel]

I am sure this is what you believe because it is what you have been taught. But the verses do not say anything about heaven. They say Jesus is coming back to earth and we will be with him (on earth). I am sure you will not change your beliefs because of this. But NOTHING in the Bible uses the word "heaven" and says anyone has gone or will go there. Thanks for your answers though. They are what most people believe. No one has ever been able to give me one verse with the word "heaven" that says someone went there. And I feel sure you cannot do it either.

Actually no, it is what I believe because it is in the bible as shown in the last few posts you have been quoting from. What is there not to believe? As the scriptures teach, Gods saints will be living with Jesus at the second coming in heaven in the fathers house (heaven) until after the 1000 year millennium at which time Gods' saints will be living with God in the new earth. The fathers house is not the earth.

 

[samtonga43]

Sorry, but your own prejudice apparently blinds you. When one is continually rude. When it is shown that that even goes against one's claimed religious beliefs and is still rude, then that does indicate that they think that being rude is a good idea.

Continually rude – positive claim.
Let’s see some evidence for a change.

Tell me, why else would you continue to be rude?

Evidence of this ‘continual rudeness’, SZ?

I will note that in this post even though you got your claims very very wrong, you were at least polite. When the OP has to continually run away because he was not able to answer questions indicates that he knows that he has lost. He never did deal with the problem of the basis of his beliefs. He can't afford to.

SZ, please read slowly and carefully:
No one ran away from you.
No one is afraid of you.
No one is attacking you (with emojis or with anything else}
(Just means that these accusations are silly).

 

[samtonga43]

You were rude for an extremely extended period of time. And yes, that supported my claim.

Please provide…
1. Your definition of the word ‘rude’.
2. Evidence of your claim that I was rude for an extremely extended period of time.

Why do you think that your continued rudeness is not evidence of you thinking that it is a bad idea to be polite?

Why do you assume that I think what you think I think? (not an attack – honest!)

 

[samtonga43]

Yes, but using them to insult others is being rude. They are usually meant to be more for self deprecation than attack.

I don’t believe this! You feel attacked by an emoji? What a fragile sense of self you must have, SZ!
Everyone who ever uses a is being rude? Really?!

NonsenseYou use then to attack. You have been on the internet long enough to know which is which.

means, to most people, “What a silly thing to say!”.

 

[samtonga43]

Yes, there are times when a evidence is not needed, But that only occurs when everyone agrees on a point. Your first and last ones fail very badly because they are true because they are defined that way. The last one is true because of a simple logical argument. When everyone agrees on a point evidence is not needed.

Exactly!

But we do not agree on your claims. Therefore evidence is needed from them. Please note with your three examples providing evidence for them would be dead easy. If someone demanded evidence you could give it to them. You were never able to do that with any of your accusations of "assumptions". And please note, the one that we are discussing amounts to a difference in reasoning. You may not agree with the reasoning that I used, but it is still not an assumption since there was reasoning behind the claim.

Your reasoning was inadequate. It did not support your claim.

At best you could say "your reasoning is incorrect for your conclusion'.

And this is exactly what I am saying, SZ.
Your reasoning is incorrect for your conclusion.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Continually rude – positive claim.
Let’s see some evidence for a change.

Evidence of this ‘continual rudeness’, SZ?

SZ, please read slowly and carefully:
No one ran away from you.
No one is afraid of you.
No one is attacking you (with emojis or with anything else}
(Just means that these accusations are silly).

Please provide…
1. Your definition of the word ‘rude’.
2. Evidence of your claim that I was rude for an extremely extended period of time.

Why do you assume that I think what you think I think? (not an attack – honest!)

I don’t believe this! You feel attacked by an emoji? What a fragile sense of self you must have, SZ!
Everyone who ever uses a is being rude? Really?!

means, to most people, “What a silly thing to say!”.

Exactly!

Your reasoning was inadequate. It did not support your claim.

And this is exactly what I am saying, SZ.
Your reasoning is incorrect for your conclusion.

Nope. I do not like to rehash the lost arguments that others keep making. Your rudeness was pointed out to you countless times. You would not own up to it. If you like I could include a link to this thread. Time to move on.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Actually no, it is what I believe because it is in the bible as shown in the last few posts you have been quoting from. What is there not to believe? As the scriptures teach, Gods saints will be living with Jesus at the second coming in heaven in the fathers house (heaven) until after the 1000 year millennium at which time Gods' saints will be living with God in the new earth. The fathers house is not the earth.

Thank you again for some interesting ideas. You are probably completely right. But I make one statement that no one has ever been able to prove wrong. The Bible does not say anyone went to or is going to "heaven". Using that exact word "heaven". It may say paradise or Abraham's bosom or God's house or something else. And these places MAY mean heaven. But no verse in the Bible actually says the word "heaven" as a place where anyone goes. Yes, I am picking on words. And you would think that since almost everyone believes they will go to heaven there should be at least one verse that really says that. Sadly, I have never found that verse and no one has ever shown it to me. And I feel sorry for all these poor saints who get to live in heaven for 1000 years and then have to give it up and come back to earth. So sad. I hope if I get to heaven I can stay there. Thanks again for an interesting discussion.

 

[3rdAngel]

Thank you again for some interesting ideas. You are probably completely right. But I make one statement that no one has ever been able to prove wrong. The Bible does not say anyone went to or is going to "heaven". Using that exact word "heaven". It may say paradise or Abraham's bosom or God's house or something else. And these places MAY mean heaven. But no verse in the Bible actually says the word "heaven" as a place where anyone goes. Yes, I am picking on words. And you would think that since almost everyone believes they will go to heaven there should be at least one verse that really says that. Sadly, I have never found that verse and no one has ever shown it to me. And I feel sorry for all these poor saints who get to live in heaven for 1000 years and then have to give it up and come back to earth. So sad. I hope if I get to heaven I can stay there. Thanks again for an interesting discussion.

Perhaps you have a misunderstanding. I am not arguing that we do not live on the new earth, only showing that we also go to heaven at the second coming to be with Jesus and the father for 1000 years for judgement on the wicked. After the millennium and after the new earth has been made that is where we live forever more.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Perhaps you have a misunderstanding. I am not arguing that we do not live on the new earth, only showing that we also go to heaven at the second coming to be with Jesus and the father for 1000 years for judgement on the wicked. After the millennium and after the new earth has been made that is where we live forever more.

Thank you again. And again I see no verse that uses the word heaven and says we go there. And also the worst thing I can imagine is spending 1000 years living on gold streets in heaven and then have to leave. Heaven should be a place where we stay forever.

 

[3rdAngel]

Thank you again. And again I see no verse that uses the word heaven and says we go there. And also the worst thing I can imagine is spending 1000 years living on gold streets in heaven and then have to leave. Heaven should be a place where we stay forever.

Hey LWS please follow this post very carefully and prayerfully as I believe it will be very helpful for you. You are correct that there is no NT verse that uses the word heaven. You may want to consider though where the fathers house is (John 14:1-4) where God has prepared a place for His people and where Jesus is and were he is taking His saints as shown through the scriptures in already shared with you in post # 1807 linked and post # 1820 linked is indeed referring to heaven but lets show why according to the scriptures.

Lets look at some more scripture detail......

I think we can agree that God the father and Jesus are in heaven now right?

• Deuteronomy 26:15 Look down from Your holy habitation, from heaven, and bless Your people Israel, and the ground which You have given us, a land flowing with milk and honey, as You swore to our fathers.’

• Genesis 28:17 He was afraid and said, “How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.”

• 2 Chronicles 6:21 Listen to the supplications of Your servant and of Your people Israel when they pray toward this place; hear from Your dwelling place, from heaven; hear and forgive.

• Revelation 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven.

• Matthew 6:9 Pray then like this: “Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name.

• Isaiah 66:1 Thus says the Lord: “Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool; what is the house that you would build for me, and what is the place of my rest?

• Matthew 5:34 But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God,

• 1 Peter 3:22 Who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

• 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

......

I can post more scripture here but I think we can agree here that Jesus and Gods house or dwelling place are in heaven. This is key for the next verses I will show you...

FROM THE SCRIPTURES ABOVE.

1. Gods dwelling place is in heaven *Deuteronomy 26:15; Chronicles 6:21; Revelation 13:6; Matthew 6:9
2. Gods house is in heaven *Genesis 28:17
3. Gods throne is in heaven *Matthew 5:34; Isaiah 66:1
4. Jesus is in heaven *1 Peter 3:22; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.​

From the scriptures above we can clearly see that Gods dwelling place is in heaven, Gods house is in heaven, Gods throne is in heaven and Jesus is in heaven. Now note very carefully what Jesus says here to his disciples (His saints) in the following passages of scripture from the very words of Jesus...

• John 14:1-4 1, Let not your heart be troubled: you believe in God, believe also in me. 2, In my Father's house are many rooms (heaven): if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. (Jesus says he is going to prepare a place for us in Gods' house in heaven) 3, And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you to myself; that where I am, there you may be also. (again Jesus is saying that he will bring His people to heaven where he has prepared a place for us) 4, And where I go you know, and the way you know.

FROM THE SCRIPTURES ABOVE.

1. In my fathers house which is in heaven are many rooms *John 14:2 compare Genesis 28:17
2. Jesus is going to prepare a place for us in the fathers house which is in heaven *John 14:2 compare Genesis 28:17
3. After Jesus prepares a place for us in the fathers house in heaven he will come again so that where he is we can be with him *John 14:2-4; compare Genesis 28:17; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 1 Peter 3:22
​

........

As shown from the scriptures above at the second coming we are going to be with Jesus and stay at the fathers house which is in heaven. The other scripture provided in the linked posts show that it will be for 1000 years until the new heavens and the new earth will be made at which time we will all live in the new earth.

Hope this is more helpful.

Take Care.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Hey LWS please follow this post very carefully and prayerfully as I believe it will be very helpful for you. You are correct that there is no NT verse that uses the word heaven. You may want to consider though where the fathers house is (John 14:1-4) where God has prepared a place for His people and where Jesus is and were he is taking His saints as shown through the scriptures in already shared with you in post # 1807 linked and post # 1820 linked is indeed referring to heaven but lets show why according to the scriptures.

Lets look at some more scripture detail......

I think we can agree that God the father and Jesus are in heaven now right?

• Deuteronomy 26:15 Look down from Your holy habitation, from heaven, and bless Your people Israel, and the ground which You have given us, a land flowing with milk and honey, as You swore to our fathers.’

• Genesis 28:17 He was afraid and said, “How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.”

• 2 Chronicles 6:21 Listen to the supplications of Your servant and of Your people Israel when they pray toward this place; hear from Your dwelling place, from heaven; hear and forgive.

• Revelation 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven.

• Matthew 6:9 Pray then like this: “Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name.

• Isaiah 66:1 Thus says the Lord: “Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool; what is the house that you would build for me, and what is the place of my rest?

• Matthew 5:34 But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God,

• 1 Peter 3:22 Who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

• 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

......

I can post more scripture here but I think we can agree here that Jesus and Gods house or dwelling place are in heaven. This is key for the next verses I will show you...

FROM THE SCRIPTURES ABOVE.

1. Gods dwelling place is in heaven *Deuteronomy 26:15; Chronicles 6:21; Revelation 13:6; Matthew 6:9
2. Gods house is in heaven *Genesis 28:17
3. Gods throne is in heaven *Matthew 5:34; Isaiah 66:1
4. Jesus is in heaven *1 Peter 3:22; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.​

From the scriptures above we can clearly see that Gods dwelling place is in heaven, Gods house is in heaven, Gods throne is in heaven and Jesus is in heaven. Now note very carefully what Jesus says here to his disciples (His saints) in the following passages of scripture from the very words of Jesus...

• John 14:1-4 1, Let not your heart be troubled: you believe in God, believe also in me. 2, In my Father's house are many rooms (the scriptures above state that Gods dwelling place is in heaven): if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. (Jesus says he is Gods' to prepare a place for us in Gods' house - heaven) 3, And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you to myself; that where I am, there you may be also. (again Jesus is saying that he will bring His people to heaven where he has prepared a place for us) 4, And where I go you know, and the way you know.

FROM THE SCRIPTURES ABOVE.

1. In my fathers house which is in heaven are many rooms *John 14:2 compare Genesis 28:17
2. Jesus is going to prepare a place for us in the fathers house which is in heaven *John 14:2 compare Genesis 28:17
3. After Jesus prepares a place for us in the fathers house in heaven he will come again so that where he is we can be with him *John 14:2-4; compare Genesis 28:17; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 1 Peter 3:22
​

........

As shown from the scriptures above at the second coming we are going to be with Jesus in heaven. The other scripture provided in the linked posts show that it will be for 1000 years until the new heavens and the new earth will be made at which time we will all live in the new earth.

Hope this is more helpful.

Take Care.

Thank you. Yes, this all makes a lot of sense. I just think it would be nice if there was just one verse that came right out and said "I will take you to heaven" or "you are going to heaven" or something like that. And I must ask a personal question. Most people hope to spend eternity in heaven. Do I understand that you hope to spend 1000 years in heaven and then eternity on a new earth? This is not what most people believe.

 

[samtonga43]

Nope. I do not like to rehash the lost arguments that others keep making. Your rudeness was pointed out to you countless times. You would not own up to it. If you like I could include a link to this thread. Time to move on.

LOL! Here it is! The post I knew was coming. This is exactly how you run away from every ‘discussion’ I have had with you, SZ. Here you run (in fact you race) from the questions I put to you in the previous post; here they are again, just in case you want to show that you are not, as usual, running away:--
1. Let’s see some evidence of your claim that I am ‘continually rude’.
2. What is your definition of the word ‘rude’.
3. Please provide evidence for your claim that I was rude for an extremely extended period of time.
4. Why do you assume that I think what you think I think?
5. Is everyone who ever uses a

being rude?

There are many questions all through this thread (for all to see) that you have made one excuse after another NOT to answer.
Not attacking you but...

I do not like to rehash the lost arguments that others keep making.

Oh, SZ!! I am truly embarrassed for you. You seem to have realized that you probably ought to have some excuse for running away, so you use the one that has failed all the other times.

 

[3rdAngel]

Thank you. Yes, this all makes a lot of sense. I just think it would be nice if there was just one verse that came right out and said "I will take you to heaven" or "you are going to heaven" or something like that. And I must ask a personal question. Most people hope to spend eternity in heaven. Do I understand that you hope to spend 1000 years in heaven and then eternity on a new earth? This is not what most people believe.

Hey LWS happy it was helpful. Yes I believe that we will only spend the first 1000 years (millennium in heaven) for the judgement of the wicked than latter we will come down in the new Jerusalem for the judgement of the wicked and the making of the new heavens and the new earth and spend eternity in the new earth as that is what the scriptures teach. God blesses us as we seek Him through His Word. He promises to guide us and teach us through His Spirit. Many of the mainstream Christian Church's have departed God and His Words to follow man-made teachings and traditions that are not supported in the scriptures sadly. That said I believe God has His people in all the Church's and he is calling us all out from following man-made teachings and traditions back to worship Him according to His Word in Spirit and in truth. We have all be taught lies in Sunday school. God is calling His people where ever they may be to worship Him in Spirit and in truth according to His Word - John 4:23-24 see John 17:17.

 

[Subduction Zone]

LOL! Here it is! The post I knew was coming. This is exactly how you run away from every ‘discussion’ I have had with you, SZ. Here you run (in fact you race) from the questions I put to you in the previous post; here they are again, just in case you want to show that you are not, as usual, running away:--
1. Let’s see some evidence of your claim that I am ‘continually rude’.
2. What is your definition of the word ‘rude’.
3. Please provide evidence for your claim that I was rude for an extremely extended period of time.
4. Why do you assume that I think what you think I think?
5. Is everyone who ever uses a

being rude?

There are many questions all through this thread (for all to see) that you have made one excuse after another NOT to answer.
Not attacking you but...

Oh, SZ!! I am truly embarrassed for you. You seem to have realized that you probably ought to have some excuse for running away, so you use the one that has failed all the other times.

No, you keep losing the argument and then repeat the same failed arguments. You keep fretting over your past losses and want to pretend that they do not exist. Your claims were dealt with. The fact that you do not like the answers does not mean that refusing to repeat them endless is not "running away".

 

[samtonga43]

No, you keep losing the argument and then repeat the same failed arguments. You keep fretting over your past losses and want to pretend that they do not exist. Your claims were dealt with. The fact that you do not like the answers does not mean that refusing to repeat them endless is not "running away".

I have no past losses to fret over, SZ.
My arguments have not failed.
You are not seeing what others are seeing. You are in a world of your own.
Take your courage in both hands and answer my questions…

1. Let’s see some evidence of your claim that I am ‘continually rude’.
2. What is your definition of the word ‘rude’.
3. Please provide evidence for your claim that I was rude for an extremely extended period of time.
4. Why do you assume that I think what you think I think?
5. Is everyone who ever uses a being rude?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I have no past losses to fret over, SZ.
My arguments have not failed.
You are not seeing what others are seeing. You are in a world of your own.
Take your courage in both hands and answer my questions…

1. Let’s see some evidence of your claim that I am ‘continually rude’.
2. What is your definition of the word ‘rude’.
3. Please provide evidence for your claim that I was rude for an extremely extended period of time.
4. Why do you assume that I think what you think I think?
5. Is everyone who ever uses a being rude?

You are still fretting. And yes, your arguments failed, and you were excessively rude. If you want to discuss something else I am up for it, but your past losses simply do not interest me.

 

[Soapy]

Thank you again for some interesting ideas. You are probably completely right. But I make one statement that no one has ever been able to prove wrong. The Bible does not say anyone went to or is going to "heaven". Using that exact word "heaven". It may say paradise or Abraham's bosom or God's house or something else. And these places MAY mean heaven. But no verse in the Bible actually says the word "heaven" as a place where anyone goes. Yes, I am picking on words. And you would think that since almost everyone believes they will go to heaven there should be at least one verse that really says that. Sadly, I have never found that verse and no one has ever shown it to me.

And I feel sorry for all these poor saints who get to live in heaven for 1000 years and then have to give it up and come back to earth. So sad. I hope if I get to heaven I can stay there. Thanks again for an interesting discussion.

This extract made me chuckle in sadness!

Trinitarian Christians say that Jesus gave up being God in Heaven and became a human Being on earth.

Yes, it is truly a strange thing that someone who is God can ‘give up being God’ (strictly, the claim is that Jesus did not think it was worthwhile being God - can you believe such a claim!!??)… some one who is in the free and Heavenly place should want to be high constrained in flesh in the earthly world.

But the prior part of your post: The saints (the Elect) will rule WITH CHRIST over the new world FROM THE HEAVENLY PLACE. Those in the heavenly place can materialise into the earthly world and back to the heavenly place just as angels did - it’s not a matter that they will LIVE in the earthly world… their REWARD for maintaining themselves as Elect of God is a heavenly abode…..

But do not imagine YOURSELF as being one of the Elect! That is such an irreverent thing to do - it is GOD who pre-chose the Elect to do his Will and these Elect likely do not even know themselves but will carry out their duties anonymously and in quiet obedience and humility setting themselves last in all things godly.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

This extract made me chuckle in sadness!

Trinitarian Christians say that Jesus gave up being God in Heaven and became a human Being on earth.

Yes, it is truly a strange thing that someone who is God can ‘give up being God’ (strictly, the claim is that Jesus did not think it was worthwhile being God - can you believe such a claim!!??)… some one who is in the free and Heavenly place should want to be high constrained in flesh in the earthly world.

But the prior part of your post: The saints (the Elect) will rule WITH CHRIST over the new world FROM THE HEAVENLY PLACE. Those in the heavenly place can materialise into the earthly world and back to the heavenly place just as angels did - it’s not a matter that they will LIVE in the earthly world… their REWARD for maintaining themselves as Elect of God is a heavenly abode…..

But do not imagine YOURSELF as being one of the Elect! That is such an irreverent thing to do - it is GOD who pre-chose the Elect to do his Will and these Elect likely do not even know themselves but will carry out their duties anonymously and in quiet obedience and humility setting themselves last in all things godly.

Thank you soapy. You make a lot of sense.

 

[samtonga43]

You are still fretting. And yes, your arguments failed, and you were excessively rude.

And yet, you have produced not a smidgeon of evidence of these claims of yours. Could it be that you would like this to be so, and are as is usual, in the process of convincing yourself that it is so?

If you want to discuss something else I am up for it, but your past losses simply do not interest me.

Answering questions don’t seem to interest you either. I’ve added another one (You just can’t help yourself, can you?):

1. Let’s see some evidence of your claim that I am ‘continually rude’.
2. What is your definition of the word ‘rude’.
3. Please provide evidence for your claim that I was rude for an extremely extended period of time.
4. Why do you assume that I think what you think I think?
5. Is everyone who ever uses a

being rude?
6. Why do you assume that I am ‘fretting’?

Time to stop running, SZ.

 

[samtonga43]

Trinitarian Christians say that Jesus gave up being God in Heaven and became a human Being on earth.

Well, no. they don’t actually, Soapy. Here’s why:

God is Triune; there are within the Godhead three Persons; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost; and the work of salvation is one in which all three act together, the Father purposing redemption, the Son securing it, and the Spirit applying it.

The Son is subject to the Father, for the Son is sent by the Father in the Father’s Name. The Spirit is subject to the Father for the Spirit is sent by the Father in the Son’s name. The Spirit is subject to the Son as well as to the Father, for the Spirit is sent by the Son as well as by the Father.


Knowing God, Inter-Varsity Press, 1973, p. 70.