"THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES

[Soapy]

Part quoting scripture and trying to explain it away does not really help you here Soapy. Like the plural application to God in Genesis and creation and the fall of mankind.

• Genesis 1:26 26 And God said, LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE, AFTER OUR LIKENESS: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Making a body is nothing to a mighty angel. Even human Beings ‘make man’ from each other in male and female sexual union.

The body is but a lifeless vessel much akin to any animal - it is the SPIRIT in the body that makes it ‘Image of God’.

The rebellious angels ‘made bodies [in human form] for themselves’ and put themselves into them to animate those bodies. It is the SPIRIT that matters - the body counts for nothing!!!

GOD used His spirit to animate the lifeless body of Adam: ‘And the man became a LIVING SOUL’.

God was speaking to the high angel who became known as ‘Satan’ (properly, ‘The Satan’ / The opposer). ‘The Satan’ (just ‘Satan’ for short) created the body that God commanded but it was lifeless.
GOD made it a living body.

The man was given a gift greater than the animals and in knowing his creator (God) and therefore was to glorify his creator God in return. But Satan was not to be worshipped though he made the body. No angel must ever be worshipped. Thus Satan caused a revolt among the angels of heaven suggesting that if he were to be leader in heaven then angels would also be worshipped by mankind. Thus God put a stop to the direct rebellion - the rebellion is now in mind and spirit towards mankind - temptation and discord against the word of God.

• Genesis 3:22 “Then the Lord God said, BEHOLD, THE MAN HAS BECOME LIKE ONE OF US, KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and also take from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.”

You do err not knowing the scriptures.

You are testing me? You imagine i am ignorant of scriptures?

The angels are wise (perhaps, some too wise!!?) and they are highly intelligent - and hugely powerful. In fact, at this time even, man was made ‘a little lower than the angels!’ But he is to grow - like a weak child but yet a prince - into greatness above the angels in time to come.

You appear to think of angels as pictured in paintings and by statues and figureens as weeping flimsy feminine figures… NO, 3rdAngel, angels are majestic yet powerfully gruesome spirits, appearing in human firm only so as to diminish the fear that would come upon humanity if they were to show themselves in their power form. BUT YET WE ARE COMMANDED BY GOD NOT TO MAKE ANY SUCH DESIGN OF THEM…. But guess what? There are no greater modellers of angelic beings than in Catholicism and its spin off - Protestantism.

It is clear that God is speaking to the angels since He speaks of man becoming ‘like us knowing good and bad’. Your three person God has one spirit and therefore God would not be speaking to HIMSELF. God is speaking to ANOTHER ENTITY that has intelligence and knowledge. Are you suggesting that angels do not know good and bad?

But that again underlines that God is not a multi-person. God takes COUNSEL WITH THE ANGELS… why would God take counsel with Himself if he was a SINGLE MINDED ENTITY? The mind would be ONE MIND. What one thinks is NOT SEPARATELY the same but SINGULARLY THE SAME. There could never be ‘Counsel’ among ONE for such would assume another has thoughts DIFFERENT from another.

 

[Soapy]

Your post here is simply a rant here Soapy of you quoting you, unsupported by scripture and does not address any of my past posts to you so it is really hard to follow your random thought process here. In response I have been posting scripture verbatim that is in disagreement with you. I think its amazing that you talk about running away when I have been here all along and have addressed everything you you have posted throughout and in response it is you that have not addressed any of the post and scripture content that has been shared with you that are in disagreement with you. It is you that is the one being silent against all the scriptures and the posts that disagree with you throughout this OP. There has been many people that have already pointed this out to you already. There is no point in responding to your posts if you are unwilling to read, or address my posts and the scriptures that are in disagreement with you when you keep on running away from a discussion. Its simply a waste of everyone time here.

Your excuse do not wash!

A question: If God put His spirit on Jesus to make him ‘CHRIST’ (the anointed one), WHAT WAS Jesus BEFORE GOD ANOINTED HIM?

• For Jesus “was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.”

If Jesus is DESIGNATED as high priest, and we know it isn’t in an earthly temple, WHY IS HE A HIGH PRIEST, and WHO is a high priest a high priest To? Is it not TO GOD?

So Jesus is high priest to God - yet he IS GOD?

 

[Soapy]

I think you are better off not dabbling in the devils fire and not getting yourself burnt if that is the case. You have been offered much water of life (scripture) to put out your fires by many here in this OP but you will not take it. I did not cut and paste anything in the post you are responding to. I just told you that you’re better off not deflecting what you do on to others. It’s simply being dishonest. You are better off receiving Gods Words and being blessed. Ignoring Gods words do not make them disappear Soapy.

Wow, your squirming knows no end. Truly you are out of your depth clutching at straws as you sink lower in the myrrh of desperation. You no longer even present scriptures in your defence since you recognise that none will defend you.

Jesus becomes ruler over creation at the end of time.

God REMAINS, as he always has been ‘(‘I Am’, ‘I changeth not’).

Jesus changes from from lowly servant man to ruler over mankind and all creation: the Head over all things… BECOMES! Except THE THRONE OF GOD!
Jesus GAINS HIS OWN THRONE - the everlasting but Earthly throne of his ancestor, King David.

God never leaves his ethereal heavenly throne - not even when He hands power and authority to Jesus for a period after which Jesus hands the power and authority back to God.

What is a Steward: Is it not ‘One sitting in office awaiting the true owner’. King John sitting as king of England AWAITING the return of the true King, King Richard (English history : King Richard in the holy land - immortalised in drama as the stories of ‘Robin Hood’ .. ‘Satan’ sitting as ‘Ruler of the world’ awaiting the true ruler: The firstborn Son in man of God!)

Having power and authority and ‘ruling as God’ does not make Jesus the God who gave him the power and authority.

3rdAngel, you love the scriptures - or at least quoting from them. What does the story of Joseph in Egypt during the famine - and the story of Mordeciah in the book of Esther - teach you about persons who are handed power and authority?

Does it not teach that though the person may RECEIVE power and authority from HIM WHO OWNS IT, that person is NOT the person who granted them that power and authority:
- Joseph is no more Pharoah (he is only to be ‘to the people to be as though he were Pharoah’)
- Mordeciah is to be ‘to the Jews as though he were king Xerxes)
But as for their thrones - that is off limits since it means assuming ABSOLUTE POWER! And God, nor Xerxes as king in that time, can be usurped.

But, after their assignment is over they each “Hand Back the power and authority to HIM who granted it…‘ to them

And Moses, even Almighty God called him ‘God’. Does that mean Moses WAS GOD - for a time?

No! There is always a CONTEXT to anyone being called ‘God’… Moses was ‘God over Pharoah’. Moses was to ‘Speak the words of God as though Moses WAS GOD, Himself’.

Joseph was to rule over Egypt DURING THE FAMINE and anything authorised by Joseph was to be taken AS THOUGH it had been authorised by Pharoah, Himself.

Mordeciah was to save the Jews by sitting AS THOUGH he were king Xerxes and any edicts issues and sealed with the ring of Xerxes was as binding AS THOUGH they were made and sealed by Xerxes, Himself.

3rdangel, the scriptures speaks to you, but you are perfectly entitled not to listen to them - it’s your life (or otherwise!) I am here to show you the way so you can squirm as much as you like but the truth doesn’t change.

Reset…?

Answer the questions above and let’s move off this ‘you didn’t answer me’ single train line.

 

[3rdAngel]

Your excuse do not wash!

A question: If God put His spirit on Jesus to make him ‘CHRIST’ (the anointed one), WHAT WAS Jesus BEFORE GOD ANOINTED HIM?

• For Jesus “was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.”

If Jesus is DESIGNATED as high priest, and we know it isn’t in an earthly temple, WHY IS HE A HIGH PRIEST, and WHO is a high priest a high priest To? Is it not TO GOD?

So Jesus is high priest to God - yet he IS GOD?

Well aren't you the funny one. I did not make any excuses for anything. So what if God makes Jesus mankind's Great high Priest? It does not change the fact that Jesus is God as proven through the scriptures (see post # 2202 linked). All the old covenant earthly Sanctuary laws are only a copy of the heavenly pointing to Jesus as Gods sacrifice for the sins of the world and the word of Jesus under the new covenant promise. I simply said in case you did not read what you were responding to again that your earlier post on the other page was simply a rant that unsupported by scripture and does not address any of my past posts to you so it is really hard to follow your random thought processes. In response I have been posting scripture verbatim that is in disagreement with you. I think its amazing that you talk about running away when I have been here all along and have addressed everything you you have posted throughout and in response it is you that have not addressed any of the post and scripture content that has been shared with you that are in disagreement with you. It is you that is the one being silent against all the scriptures and the posts that disagree with you throughout this OP. There has been many people that have already pointed this out to you already. There is no point in responding to your posts if you are unwilling to read, or address my posts and the scriptures that are in disagreement with you when you keep on running away from a discussion. Its simply a waste of everyone time here.

 

[3rdAngel]

Making a body is nothing to a mighty angel. Even human Beings ‘make man’ from each other in male and female sexual union.

The body is but a lifeless vessel much akin to any animal - it is the SPIRIT in the body that makes it ‘Image of God’.

The rebellious angels ‘made bodies [in human form] for themselves’ and put themselves into them to animate those bodies. It is the SPIRIT that matters - the body counts for nothing!!!

GOD used His spirit to animate the lifeless body of Adam: ‘And the man became a LIVING SOUL’.

God was speaking to the high angel who became known as ‘Satan’ (properly, ‘The Satan’ / The opposer). ‘The Satan’ (just ‘Satan’ for short) created the body that God commanded but it was lifeless.
GOD made it a living body.

The man was given a gift greater than the animals and in knowing his creator (God) and therefore was to glorify his creator God in return. But Satan was not to be worshipped though he made the body. No angel must ever be worshipped. Thus Satan caused a revolt among the angels of heaven suggesting that if he were to be leader in heaven then angels would also be worshipped by mankind. Thus God put a stop to the direct rebellion - the rebellion is now in mind and spirit towards mankind - temptation and discord against the word of God.

You are testing me? You imagine i am ignorant of scriptures?

The angels are wise (perhaps, some too wise!!?) and they are highly intelligent - and hugely powerful. In fact, at this time even, man was made ‘a little lower than the angels!’ But he is to grow - like a weak child but yet a prince - into greatness above the angels in time to come.

You appear to think of angels as pictured in paintings and by statues and figureens as weeping flimsy feminine figures… NO, 3rdAngel, angels are majestic yet powerfully gruesome spirits, appearing in human firm only so as to diminish the fear that would come upon humanity if they were to show themselves in their power form. BUT YET WE ARE COMMANDED BY GOD NOT TO MAKE ANY SUCH DESIGN OF THEM…. But guess what? There are no greater modellers of angelic beings than in Catholicism and its spin off - Protestantism.

It is clear that God is speaking to the angels since He speaks of man becoming ‘like us knowing good and bad’. Your three person God has one spirit and therefore God would not be speaking to HIMSELF. God is speaking to ANOTHER ENTITY that has intelligence and knowledge. Are you suggesting that angels do not know good and bad?

But that again underlines that God is not a multi-person. God takes COUNSEL WITH THE ANGELS… why would God take counsel with Himself if he was a SINGLE MINDED ENTITY? The mind would be ONE MIND. What one thinks is NOT SEPARATELY the same but SINGULARLY THE SAME. There could never be ‘Counsel’ among ONE for such would assume another has thoughts DIFFERENT from another.

You are joking right? You are trying to tell us that the Angels created mankind? Please show me a scripture where it says that the Angels created mankind Soapy? The difference between you and me Soapy is that you have to read into the scriptures what is not written in the scriptures to come up with your understanding of the scriptures. For me I simply post the scriptures and read out of the scriptures what is written in the scriptures and let Gods Word prove you wrong. Here you go here with a slightly different set of scriptures showing Jesus as the God of creation and plural God..

Jesus the God of creation...

• Hebrews 1:1-2 1, God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2, HAS IN THESE LAST DAYS SPOKEN TO US BY HIS SON, WHOM HE HAS APPOINTED HEIR OF ALL THINGS, BY WHOM ALSO HE MADE THE WORLDS; 3, WHO BEING THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS GLORY, AND THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON, AND UPHOLDING ALL THINGS BY THE WORD OF HIS POWER, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high

• Colossians 1:16 16 FOR BY HIM ALL THINGS WERE CREATED, LIN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE, WHETHER THRONES OR DOMINIONS OR RULERS OR AUTHORITIES. ALL THINGS WERE CREATED THROUGH HIM AND FOR HIM.

• John 1:1-4 ;14 1, IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, AND THE WORD WAS GOD. 2, THE SAME WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD. 3, ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM; AND WITHOUT HIM WAS NOT ANY THING MADE THAT WAS MADE. 4, In him was life; and the life was the light of men. [10] He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. [14], AND THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, AND DWELT AMONG US, AND WE BEHELD HIS GLORY, THE GLORY AS OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER, FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH.

• Matthew 1:23 23 “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name IMMANUEL WHICH MEANS GOD WITH US.

• Hebrews 1:8 8 BUT TO THE SON HE (the father) SAYS "YOUR THRONE O GOD (Jesus) IS FOREVER AND EVER, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

Jesus as creator God (see John 1:1-4; 14 and plural God below)...

• Genesis 1:26 26 And God said, LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE, AFTER OUR LIKENESS: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

• Genesis 3:22 “Then the Lord God said, BEHOLD, THE MAN HAS BECOME LIKE ONE OF US, KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and also take from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.”

Jesus was before creation and the God of creation as shown word for word in the scriptures that disagree with your words that are unsupported by the scriptures (e.g. John 1:1-4; Hebrews 1:1-2,Hebrews 1:8-12 Colossians 1:16 etc). Receive Gods correction and be blessed Soapy. Ignoring Gods' Words does not make them disappear. According to Jesus the words of God we accept or reject will become our judge come judgement day (see John 12:47-48), Kind of not going to well for you now is it Soapy? We are best to believe and follow what Gods' Word says not seek to argue with them and try to explain them away which is what you are doing. Ignoring Gods Word and pretending they do not exist does not make them go away Soapy. Receive Gods Word and be blessed Soapy, ignoring Gods Word does not make it disappear.

Take Care

 

[3rdAngel]

Wow, your squirming knows no end. Truly you are out of your depth clutching at straws as you sink lower in the myrrh of desperation. You no longer even present scriptures in your defence since you recognise that none will defend you.

Jesus becomes ruler over creation at the end of time.

God REMAINS, as he always has been ‘(‘I Am’, ‘I changeth not’).

Jesus changes from from lowly servant man to ruler over mankind and all creation: the Head over all things… BECOMES! Except THE THRONE OF GOD!
Jesus GAINS HIS OWN THRONE - the everlasting but Earthly throne of his ancestor, King David.

God never leaves his ethereal heavenly throne - not even when He hands power and authority to Jesus for a period after which Jesus hands the power and authority back to God.

What is a Steward: Is it not ‘One sitting in office awaiting the true owner’. King John sitting as king of England AWAITING the return of the true King, King Richard (English history : King Richard in the holy land - immortalised in drama as the stories of ‘Robin Hood’ .. ‘Satan’ sitting as ‘Ruler of the world’ awaiting the true ruler: The firstborn Son in man of God!)

Having power and authority and ‘ruling as God’ does not make Jesus the God who gave him the power and authority.

3rdAngel, you love the scriptures - or at least quoting from them. What does the story of Joseph in Egypt during the famine - and the story of Mordeciah in the book of Esther - teach you about persons who are handed power and authority?

Does it not teach that though the person may RECEIVE power and authority from HIM WHO OWNS IT, that person is NOT the person who granted them that power and authority:
- Joseph is no more Pharoah (he is only to be ‘to the people to be as though he were Pharoah’)
- Mordeciah is to be ‘to the Jews as though he were king Xerxes)
But as for their thrones - that is off limits since it means assuming ABSOLUTE POWER! And God, nor Xerxes as king in that time, can be usurped.

But, after their assignment is over they each “Hand Back the power and authority to HIM who granted it…‘ to them

And Moses, even Almighty God called him ‘God’. Does that mean Moses WAS GOD - for a time?

No! There is always a CONTEXT to anyone being called ‘God’… Moses was ‘God over Pharoah’. Moses was to ‘Speak the words of God as though Moses WAS GOD, Himself’.

Joseph was to rule over Egypt DURING THE FAMINE and anything authorised by Joseph was to be taken AS THOUGH it had been authorised by Pharoah, Himself.

Mordeciah was to save the Jews by sitting AS THOUGH he were king Xerxes and any edicts issues and sealed with the ring of Xerxes was as binding AS THOUGH they were made and sealed by Xerxes, Himself.

3rdangel, the scriptures speaks to you, but you are perfectly entitled not to listen to them - it’s your life (or otherwise!) I am here to show you the way so you can squirm as much as you like but the truth doesn’t change.

Reset…?

Answer the questions above and let’s move off this ‘you didn’t answer me’ single train line.

Goodness did you notice your post once again is simply you quoting you unsupported by scripture? Now why would I bother responding to it Soapy? You have pretty much ignored scripture and not addressed a single post that I have written to you supported by scripture that is in disagreement with you all through this thread. So tell me why would I bother if you are unwilling to read my posts and respond to them again and address the scriptures that are in disagreement with you?

I just posted to you in an earlier post that I have decided to stop responding to your posts in detail because you do not respond to the content of my posts and the scripture in them that are in disagreement with you. This has been pointed out to you many times already throughout this thread bu myself and others even providing evidence of this fact by linking you to lists of linked posts you have not responded to showing posts full of scripture that is in disagreement with you. So your words here are empty as well as untruthful to me. I said to you in that same post "How about we make a deal? Even though you are so far behind in responding to my post content, scriptures content that are in disagreement with you and the questions asked of you, I am happy to continue answering your questions if you address my post content, scriptures and questions asked of you that are in disagreement with you that you simply choose to ignore? If you agree to do this than I will continue addressing your posts with a detailed scripture response. Do you agree? YES/NO?

If not I will not waste my time on you and we will agree to disagree. Then I continued in good faith answering the questions you posted in that same post. (see post # 2188 linked and post # 2202 linked). Your response has been to ignore my posts and proposition to you. Now let me ask you again if I give you a detailed scripture response to your post here will you promise to respond to and address the post and scripture content of my posts YES/NO? If you answer yest I will be happy to continue with you. However I am not bothering anymore with you Soapy if you continue to ignore my posts to you. You can start by responding to the linked posts here that you have ignored and the post above this one. Lets have a discussion.

Take Care.

 

[samtonga43]

3rdAngel, there is no LEGITIMATE SCRIPTURE that claims Jesus is God. All the scriptures you posted are faulty in the least and creatively altered at the most.

Soapy, I am interested in your use of the words you have capitalized. These words suggest that there is 'illegitimate' scripture. I wonder, can you identify what it is that makes Scripture illegitimate? A second question: I use the ESV translation. Do you consider this translation to be 'legitimate'? Which translation do you consider to be legitimate?

Father means ‘Creator’ but Jesus is not called ‘Father’. Who is called ‘the Father’ and is ‘the Father’ to Jesus being ‘the Son’ of the Father

This makes no sense, either theologically or grammatically.

What does it mean that Jesus is the Son of God? | GotQuestions.org

God is commanded by no one. God cannot be commanded. How is Jesus commanded BY HE WHO CANNOT BE COMMANDED if Jesus IS HE WHO CANNOT BE COMMANDED

Please stop with the yelling and read carefully:-
Jesus is not God.
The Father is not God.
The Holy Spirit is not God.
The Father is the First Person of the Trinity.
Jesus Christ is the Second Person of the Trinity.
Holy Spirit is the Third Person of the Trinity.
God is Triune. Three-in-One.

When you see it, you see it, Soapy. When you don't, you don't. God will show you, if you let Him.

Did God command Jesus to create all things… that’s what trinity John 1:1 would say: ‘The word created all things’… WHO’s WORD created all things…

Do you mean 'Whose Word'? If so, the answer is God's Word.

If Jesus is THE WORD THAT CREATED ALL THINGS… then he cannot BE GOD since the COMMAND to create came from GOD… (see previous question)

Jesus is not God. (See above)

And, Jesus INHERITS what is God’s in being MADE Heir TO GOD! If Jesus is God then how can he be the inheritor of what he is supposed to have created?
How is Jesus inheriting anything if he is God who is the owner of everything?

Jesus is not God. (See above)

 

[Soapy]

Soapy, I am interested in your use of the words you have capitalized. These words suggest that there is 'illegitimate' scripture. I wonder, can you identify what it is that makes Scripture illegitimate? A second question: I use the ESV translation. Do you consider this translation to be 'legitimate'? Which translation do you consider to be legitimate?

This makes no sense, either theologically or grammatically.

What does it mean that Jesus is the Son of God? | GotQuestions.org

Please stop with the yelling and read carefully:-
Jesus is not God.
The Father is not God.
The Holy Spirit is not God.
The Father is the First Person of the Trinity.
Jesus Christ is the Second Person of the Trinity.
Holy Spirit is the Third Person of the Trinity.
God is Triune. Three-in-One.

When you see it, you see it, Soapy. When you don't, you don't. God will show you, if you let Him.


Do you mean 'Whose Word'? If so, the answer is God's Word.

Jesus is not God. (See above)

Jesus is not God. (See above)

Yes, you are absolutely right: Jesus is not God.

Have you spoken to 3rdAngel… he says Jesus is God.

Also, what do you mean by ‘Jesus is the second person of the trinity’?

Does your trinity have a rank order of Godness?

And if you are getting your ideas about trinity from ‘gotQuestion’ then I’m not surprised how deluded your ideology is.

‘gotQuestion’ and ‘CARM’ are the two worst trinity website I have ever encountered.

 

[3rdAngel]

Yes, you are absolutely right: Jesus is not God.

Have you spoken to 3rdAngel… he says Jesus is God.

Also, what do you mean by ‘Jesus is the second person of the trinity’?

Does your trinity have a rank order of Godness?

And if you are getting your ideas about trinity from ‘gotQuestion’ then I’m not surprised how deluded your ideology is.

‘gotQuestion’ and ‘CARM’ are the two worst trinity website I have ever encountered.

Actually Soapy I do not think @samtonga43 is saying that Jesus is not God. She posted two website that believe Jesus is God and no I was posting scripture to you stating Jesus is the God of creation which is what the scriptures say word for word. That is what the scriptures say word for word disagreeing with you words.

Take Care.

 

[Soapy]

Actually Soapy I do not think @samtonga43 is saying that Jesus is not God. She posted two website that believe Jesus is God and no I was posting scripture to you stating Jesus is the God of creation which is what the scriptures say word for word. That is what the scriptures say word for word disagreeing with you words.

Take Care.

I would let samtonga43 answer for herself.

But since you’ve answered here,… I notice you are saying that you do not believe Jesus is God…. only the God of creation!!

Hmmm… yeah, I hadn’t noticed that sensitive distinction before.

What is the meaning of ‘Jesus is the God of creation’ in contrast to simply ‘Jesus is God’?

You posted many quotes of verses such as the one, ‘Before Abraham, I am’ which is supposed to imply that Jesus was calling himself ‘God’ - God who told Moses that his name is ‘YHWH’ which CARRIES THE MEANING of ‘I am’… even though Jesus spoke in Aramaic, and the verse was written in Greek which only translates as ‘I am’ in English… yet in the very next chapter, a man born blind and healed by Jesus, says to his interrogators asking him if he indeed was the man born blind, ‘I am’…. Seem the man born blind was healed by one called ‘I am’ even though he himself was also ‘I am’.

Yes, nonsense, true… but that’s what’s behind what you are saying!!

In another verse, it is ALMIGHTY GOD that is the subject, and Jesus is added in but the verse was altered by the translators who were trinitarian, to make it seem that the verse was calling Jesus BOTH God and Lord.

But an intelligent man as yourself cannot see that?

It frightens you to see the truth since … where would you go after ACKNOWLEDGING the truth?

Well, like Saul of Tarsus, you can become an advocate of the truth - and with your tenacity for drilling your opponents - you would do well - just as the throne-seated Almighty King, through his right-hand standing Anointed Prince, turned Saul into Paul but did not change his character, instead, using that character for good away from the bad.

The problem with those verses you claim are stating Jesus is God, word for word, are not saying any such thing - IN REALITY! They are not word for word In truth!

By the way, do you know the difference between the use of ‘Then’ and ‘Than’?

Perhaps you’ve let slip an error in your understand or usage of words … which would explain why you csnnog see the discrepancies in the verses you claim are ‘word for word’ declaring Jesus as God ….

Oh!!.., ‘God of Creation’.

Jesus DENIED even calling himself ‘God’ OUTRIGHT to the Jews (from John 10)

“31Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”​

33“We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”​

34Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods” ’ d ? 35If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.38But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”
​

Jesus states emphatically that he did not call himself God, but, in fact, said ‘I am the Son of God’.

Now, you know that pagan nation rulers would claim they were ‘Gods’ because they were offspring of their ethereal rulers, deities, GODS, because they were ‘Sons of the Gods’.

So, you see that even though Jesus tried to say only that he was ‘Son’ of God (in that he was DOING THE WORKS OF GOD - A Son is he who does the works of his Father) the Jews took it that Jesus was claiming he was ‘God’ because he was ‘Son of God’ like the pagan believe.

Again, it is the JEWS who were claiming - against the PROTESTATIONS of Jesus - that Jesus was claiming to be God!

Are you really saying to me that you do not see this as the proper interpretation of these verses?

And notice earlier in John 10:1-18 that Jesus STATES WHO HE IS… ‘I am the good shepherd’ (in short). Jesus does not claim he is the OWNER OF THE SHEEP but only the Shepherd of the sheep - and THE GATEWAY and THE GATE…through which the sheep enter the sheep fold.

A Shepherd DOES NOT OWN THE SHEEP! He MANAGES the sheep for the SHEEP OWNER!

The sheep (the people of God - the Elect) are gathered together by the shepherd (Jesus). The elect are GOD’s people. Jesus says,

• ‘I thank you, Father, for THOSE YOU GAVE ME - They were YOURS but you gave them to me!’

But you say that Jesus isn’t God - only ‘God of creation’, so you are saying:

• That Jesus created mankind
• But mankind belongs to the Father
• That Jesus does not own all things but is overseer only of those his Father gives to him
• That Jesus is the shepherd and the gateway for the sheep that his Father owns

I’m sure that by now you are questioning your current understanding of the trinitarian belief which contrarily claims the Father is God and Jesus is God… but which cannot define what the term ‘God’ means (I’m not surprised at this last remark since defining the term ‘God’ would destroy all their claims!)

 

[3rdAngel]

I would let samtonga43 answer for herself.

But since you’ve answered here,… I notice you are saying that you do not believe Jesus is God…. only the God of creation!!

Hmmm… yeah, I hadn’t noticed that sensitive distinction before.

What is the meaning of ‘Jesus is the God of creation’ in contrast to simply ‘Jesus is God’?

You posted many quotes of verses such as the one, ‘Before Abraham, I am’ which is supposed to imply that Jesus was calling himself ‘God’ - God who told Moses that his name is ‘YHWH’ which CARRIES THE MEANING of ‘I am’… even though Jesus spoke in Aramaic, and the verse was written in Greek which only translates as ‘I am’ in English… yet in the very next chapter, a man born blind and healed by Jesus, says to his interrogators asking him if he indeed was the man born blind, ‘I am’…. Seem the man born blind was healed by one called ‘I am’ even though he himself was also ‘I am’.

Yes, nonsense, true… but that’s what’s behind what you are saying!!

In another verse, it is ALMIGHTY GOD that is the subject, and Jesus is added in but the verse was altered by the translators who were trinitarian, to make it seem that the verse was calling Jesus BOTH God and Lord.

But an intelligent man as yourself cannot see that?

It frightens you to see the truth since … where would you go after ACKNOWLEDGING the truth?

Well, like Saul of Tarsus, you can become an advocate of the truth - and with your tenacity for drilling your opponents - you would do well - just as the throne-seated Almighty King, through his right-hand standing Anointed Prince, turned Saul into Paul but did not change his character, instead, using that character for good away from the bad.

The problem with those verses you claim are stating Jesus is God, word for word, are not saying any such thing - IN REALITY! They are not word for word In truth!

By the way, do you know the difference between the use of ‘Then’ and ‘Than’?

Perhaps you’ve let slip an error in your understand or usage of words … which would explain why you csnnog see the discrepancies in the verses you claim are ‘word for word’ declaring Jesus as God ….

Oh!!.., ‘God of Creation’.

Jesus DENIED even calling himself ‘God’ OUTRIGHT to the Jews (from John 10)

“31Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”​

33“We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”​

34Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods” ’ d ? 35If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.38But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”
​

...........snip

Well there you go again assuming things I have never said before. So no dear friend, I have never said that Jesus is not God, that is exactly what the scriptures say word for word as posted to you many times now that you refuse to respond to. You seem to be arguing against scripture which is Gods Words not my words disagreeing with your words that are not God's Words but simply your words not agreeing with the scriptures shared with you. We are better off to believe what the scriptures teach in my view Soapy. Ignoring Gods Word (scripture) does not make them disappear.

But so the reader is not led astray by what you are posting lets add the scriptures back so everyone can see what the scriptures say word for word disagreeing with what you say word for word...

The Apostles calling Jesus the God of creation...

• John 20:28 28 Thomas answered him, “MY LORD AND MY GOD!”

• Titus 2:13 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of OUR GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST

• Hebrews 1:1-2 1, God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2, HAS IN THESE LAST DAYS SPOKEN TO US BY HIS SON, WHOM HE HAS APPOINTED HEIR OF ALL THINGS, BY WHOM ALSO HE MADE THE WORLDS; 3, WHO BEING THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS GLORY, AND THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON, AND UPHOLDING ALL THINGS BY THE WORD OF HIS POWER, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high

• Hebrews 1:8 8 BUT TO THE SON HE (the father) SAYS "YOUR THRONE O GOD (Jesus) IS FOREVER AND EVER, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

• Matthew 1:23 23 “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name IMMANUEL WHICH MEANS GOD WITH US.

• John 1:1-4 ;14 1, IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, AND THE WORD WAS GOD. 2, THE SAME WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD. 3, ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM; AND WITHOUT HIM WAS NOT ANY THING MADE THAT WAS MADE. 4, In him was life; and the life was the light of men. [10] He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. [14], AND THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, AND DWELT AMONG US, AND WE BEHELD HIS GLORY, THE GLORY AS OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER, FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH.

• 2 Peter 1:1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of OUR GOD AND SAVOIR JESUS CHRIST

• John 8:58 Jesus said to them: “Timeless truth I speak to you: Before Abraham would exist, I AM THE LIVING GOD.” (Aramaic)

• 1 John 5:20 20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son JESUS CHRIST HE IS THE TRUE GOD AND ETERNAL LIFE.

• Colossians 2:9 “FOR IN CHRIST ALL THE FULLNESS OF THE DEITY LIVES IN BODILY FORM."

The God head are three with one mind and purpose...

• John 10:30 I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE

• 1 John 5:7 “For there are three that bear witness in heaven: The FATHER, THE WORD (Jesus see John 1:1-4; 14), and the HOLY SPIRIT; and THESE THREE ARE ONE.”

• Matthew 28:19 9, Go ye therefore, and TEACH ALL NATIONS, BAPTIZING THEM IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY GHOST

Jesus as creator God (see John 1:1-4; 14 and plural God below)...

• Genesis 1:26 26 And God said, LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE, AFTER OUR LIKENESS: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

• Genesis 3:22 “Then the Lord God said, BEHOLD, THE MAN HAS BECOME LIKE ONE OF US, KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and also take from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.”

• Genesis 11:7 “COME, LET US GO DOWN AND CONFUSE THEIR LANGUAGE so they will not understand each other

• Isaiah 6:8 “Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, “Whom shall I send, and WHO WILL GO FOR US?” Then I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

Jesus was before creation and the God of creation as shown word for word in the scriptures that disagree with your words that are unsupported by the scriptures (e.g. John 1:1-4; Hebrews 1:1-2,Hebrews 1:8-12 Colossians 1:16 etc). Receive Gods correction and be blessed Soapy. Ignoring Gods' Words does not make them disappear. According to Jesus the words of God we accept or reject will become our judge come judgement day (see John 12:47-48), Kind of not going to well for you now is it Soapy? We are best to believe and follow what Gods' Word says not seek to argue with them and try to explain them away which is what you are doing. Ignoring Gods Word and pretending they do not exist does not make them go away Soapy.

Take Care.

 

[Soapy]

Soapy, I am interested in your use of the words you have capitalized. These words suggest that there is 'illegitimate' scripture. I wonder, can you identify what it is that makes Scripture illegitimate? A second question: I use the ESV translation. Do you consider this translation to be 'legitimate'? Which translation do you consider to be legitimate?

This makes no sense, either theologically or grammatically.

What does it mean that Jesus is the Son of God? | GotQuestions.org

Please stop with the yelling and read carefully:-
Jesus is not God.
The Father is not God.
The Holy Spirit is not God.
The Father is the First Person of the Trinity.
Jesus Christ is the Second Person of the Trinity.
Holy Spirit is the Third Person of the Trinity.
God is Triune. Three-in-One.

When you see it, you see it, Soapy. When you don't, you don't. God will show you, if you let Him.


Do you mean 'Whose Word'? If so, the answer is God's Word.

Jesus is not God. (See above)

Jesus is not God. (See above)

Yes, of course there are illegitimate verses. 3rdAngel even posted one as Proof of [something….!!] even though the verse has been debunked even by Trinitarians as a ‘mistake’!!

And, do you not know that such a thing would happen - that attempts to change scriptures would occur? Jesus said there would be serious problem for those who altered the scriptures…

If Jesus said scriptures would be altered then why are you saying that there are no altered scriptures?
Are you saying that Jesus was wrong and you are right?

Yes, Jesus is not GOD!

The Father is God!

Only the Father is God.

And that is why the apostles greeted each other in letters such as:

• “Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Cor 1:3)
• “Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes,” (1 Cor 1:1)

There are many such greetings with distinct separations of persons (The Father: ‘God’ and Jesus: ‘the Lord’)

And just in case you want to argue the point: in verse 1, would you consider that Sosthenes was ‘Our Brother, God’?

 

[3rdAngel]

Yes, Jesus is not GOD!

The Father is God!

Only the Father is God.

And that is why the apostles greeted each other in letters such as:

• “Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Cor 1:3)
• “Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes,” (1 Cor 1:1)

There are many such greetings with distinct separations of persons (The Father: ‘God’ and Jesus: ‘the Lord’)

And just in case you want to argue the point: in verse 1, would you consider that Sosthenes was ‘Our Brother, God’?

Sorry Soapy but I do not believe you. The scripture posted above your post in post # 2231 linked disagree with your teaching and there is nothing you have posted here that disagrees with the scriptures already shared with you. The scriptures you posted are simply greetings from God our father and Lord Jesus Christ. They do not say Jesus is not God. The scriptures teach that God the father and Jesus are one (see John 10:30). You may also want to consider the context of the scriptures you post above from Colossians 1 and 2 about Jesus that you have left out provided below for your help....

• Colossians 1:16 16 FOR BY HIM (Jesus) ALL THINGS WERE CREATED, LIN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE, WHETHER THRONES OR DOMINIONS OR RULERS OR AUTHORITIES. ALL THINGS WERE CREATED THROUGH HIM AND FOR HIM.

• Colossians 2:9 “FOR IN CHRIST ALL THE FULLNESS OF THE DEITY LIVES IN BODILY FORM."

Once again you lose Soapy. Receive Gods correction and be blessed. Ignoring Gods Word does not make them disappear.

Take Care.

 

[samtonga43]

Yes, you are absolutely right: Jesus is not God.

Jesus is God incarnate, Soapy. But both 3rdAngel and I do realize that you don’t understand this.

Actually, not one of us is able to understand this, in the sense that we can understand facts like ‘water is wet’ or ‘78 + 7 = 85’ or ‘there is no such thing as a married bachelor’.

It is a very different kind of ‘understanding’ and one which comes to us from God Himself. All we have to do is to lean on Him, and not upon our own understanding.

Also, what do you mean by ‘Jesus is the second person of the trinity’?

Firstly, I do not mean that there are different levels of importance among the Persons of the Trinity. None is before or after another; none is greater or less than another.

But all three Persons are co-eternal together and co-equal.

Does your trinity have a rank order of Godness?

No. One God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity.

And if you are getting your ideas about trinity from ‘gotQuestion’ then I’m not surprised how deluded your ideology is.

LOL! I am not surprised that you’re not surprised. However, my belief in the Triune God comes from God Himself.

‘gotQuestion’ and ‘CARM’ are the two worst trinity website I have ever encountered.

Your views are predicable, Soapy, but easily dismissed.

 

[Soapy]

Well there you go again assuming things I have never said before. So no dear friend, I have never said that Jesus is not God, that is exactly what the scriptures say word for word as posted to you many times now that you refuse to respond to. You seem to be arguing against scripture which is Gods Words not my words disagreeing with your words that are not God's Words but simply your words not agreeing with the scriptures shared with you. We are better off to believe what the scriptures teach in my view Soapy. Ignoring Gods Word (scripture) does not make them disappear.

But so the reader is not led astray by what you are posting lets add the scriptures back so everyone can see what the scriptures say word for word disagreeing with what you say word for word...

The Apostles calling Jesus the God of creation...

• John 20:28 28 Thomas answered him, “MY LORD AND MY GOD!”

• Titus 2:13 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of OUR GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST

• Hebrews 1:1-2 1, God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2, HAS IN THESE LAST DAYS SPOKEN TO US BY HIS SON, WHOM HE HAS APPOINTED HEIR OF ALL THINGS, BY WHOM ALSO HE MADE THE WORLDS; 3, WHO BEING THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS GLORY, AND THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON, AND UPHOLDING ALL THINGS BY THE WORD OF HIS POWER, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high

• Hebrews 1:8 8 BUT TO THE SON HE (the father) SAYS "YOUR THRONE O GOD (Jesus) IS FOREVER AND EVER, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

• Matthew 1:23 23 “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name IMMANUEL WHICH MEANS GOD WITH US.

• John 1:1-4 ;14 1, IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, AND THE WORD WAS GOD. 2, THE SAME WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD. 3, ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM; AND WITHOUT HIM WAS NOT ANY THING MADE THAT WAS MADE. 4, In him was life; and the life was the light of men. [10] He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. [14], AND THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, AND DWELT AMONG US, AND WE BEHELD HIS GLORY, THE GLORY AS OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER, FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH.

• 2 Peter 1:1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of OUR GOD AND SAVOIR JESUS CHRIST

• John 8:58 Jesus said to them: “Timeless truth I speak to you: Before Abraham would exist, I AM THE LIVING GOD.” (Aramaic)

• 1 John 5:20 20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son JESUS CHRIST HE IS THE TRUE GOD AND ETERNAL LIFE.

• Colossians 2:9 “FOR IN CHRIST ALL THE FULLNESS OF THE DEITY LIVES IN BODILY FORM."

The God head are three with one mind and purpose...

• John 10:30 I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE

• 1 John 5:7 “For there are three that bear witness in heaven: The FATHER, THE WORD (Jesus see John 1:1-4; 14), and the HOLY SPIRIT; and THESE THREE ARE ONE.”

• Matthew 28:19 9, Go ye therefore, and TEACH ALL NATIONS, BAPTIZING THEM IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY GHOST

Jesus as creator God (see John 1:1-4; 14 and plural God below)...

• Genesis 1:26 26 And God said, LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE, AFTER OUR LIKENESS: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

• Genesis 3:22 “Then the Lord God said, BEHOLD, THE MAN HAS BECOME LIKE ONE OF US, KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and also take from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.”

• Genesis 11:7 “COME, LET US GO DOWN AND CONFUSE THEIR LANGUAGE so they will not understand each other

• Isaiah 6:8 “Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, “Whom shall I send, and WHO WILL GO FOR US?” Then I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

Jesus was before creation and the God of creation as shown word for word in the scriptures that disagree with your words that are unsupported by the scriptures (e.g. John 1:1-4; Hebrews 1:1-2,Hebrews 1:8-12 Colossians 1:16 etc). Receive Gods correction and be blessed Soapy. Ignoring Gods' Words does not make them disappear. According to Jesus the words of God we accept or reject will become our judge come judgement day (see John 12:47-48), Kind of not going to well for you now is it Soapy? We are best to believe and follow what Gods' Word says not seek to argue with them and try to explain them away which is what you are doing. Ignoring Gods Word and pretending they do not exist does not make them go away Soapy.

Take Care.

No, 3rdAngel, you said:

• “I was posting scripture to you stating Jesus is the God of creation”

Jesus is the God of creation? Yet it is the Father who is the THE CREATOR - which is what ‘Father’ means!

‘Father’ also means, ‘He who gives life …’

So how are you claiming that Jesus is ‘Father’: Creator and life giver’ in the beginning - the beginning!!

Interestingly, why ARE YOU NOT claiming that Jesus IS the Father .. the Creator; the life giver, wherein Jesus says:

• “I and the Father are one!”

Yeah, I know I’m weaponising you, but I know you are not silly enough to pick up a blunt weapon.

And notice that there is no ‘Trinity’ in ‘I and the Father are one’ even as there are only two persons seen in vision by the martyr, Stephen: ‘I saw the glory of God [Only the glory since God cannot be seen by earthly man] seated on his throne with Jesus standing next to him’

 

[Soapy]

Sorry Soapy but I do not believe you. The scripture posted above your post in post # 2231 linked disagree with your teaching and there is nothing you have posted here that disagrees with the scriptures already shared with you. The scriptures you posted are simply greetings from God our father and Lord Jesus Christ. They do not say Jesus is not God. The scriptures teach that God the father and Jesus are one (see John 10:30). You may also want to consider the context of the scriptures you post above from Colossians 1 and 2 about Jesus that you have left out provided below for your help....

• Colossians 1:16 16 FOR BY HIM (Jesus) ALL THINGS WERE CREATED, LIN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE, WHETHER THRONES OR DOMINIONS OR RULERS OR AUTHORITIES. ALL THINGS WERE CREATED THROUGH HIM AND FOR HIM.

The verse you quote here is not coherent. God the creator (Father) created all things FOR THE SON.
Jesus is the Son for which creation was made for which is why he inherits it AT THE END OF TIME after he has EARNED the right to be its ruler.

• Colossians 2:9 “FOR IN CHRIST ALL THE FULLNESS OF THE DEITY LIVES IN BODILY FORM."

Once again you lose Soapy. Receive Gods correction and be blessed. Ignoring Gods Word does not make them disappear.

Take Care.

You forgot to say that it was at the pleasure of the creator - the Father - that Jesus was ‘filled with the fullness of deity’.

This occurred at Jesus’ baptism wherein GOD POURED OUT HIS SPIRIT on him just as God prophesied in Isaiah 42:1:

• “Behold my SERVANT whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.”

And again, here:

• “This is my son in whom I am well pleased!”
• “For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in him,”

And even here:

• “You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached—how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.“ (Acts 10:37-38)

And why is Jesus given the title ‘Christ’? What does it mean to be ‘Christ’?

What does ‘Anointed’ mean… what does it mean to be ‘Anointed’? And further, Jesus’ anointed Kent is a SPIRITUAL anointment - not one with earthly fluid but with the FULL fluid Spirit of God alighting upon him like a light breeze as of a dove —- and again, at Pentecost where the apostles where anointed with the PARTIAL amounts of the spirit of God appearing as tongues of fire and high wind?
———————————-
So are you saying that ‘God the Father’ and ‘the Lord Jesus Christ’ are not two separate persons?

Even here where those who know God, and know Jesus, never call Jesus ‘God’?

 

[samtonga43]

And just in case you want to argue the point: in verse 1, would you consider that Sosthenes was ‘Our Brother, God’?

Of course not. Why would I consider that Sosthenes is God?

 

[Soapy]

Jesus is God incarnate, Soapy. But both 3rdAngel and I do realize that you don’t understand this.

That is not totally true. 3rdAngel does understand what I’m saying - he just chooses to retain his trinitarian stance since it’s hard coded in him.

You, though, I forgive you for your lack of understanding as I can see you are just regurgitating rhetoric.

Actually, not one of us is able to understand this, in the sense that we can understand facts like ‘water is wet’ or ‘78 + 7 = 85’ or ‘there is no such thing as a married bachelor’.

Of course, you are right. Not one of you is able to understand the importance of truth. Yes, you can understand that water is wet and that sum is correct and that there is no such thing as a married bachelor… but that’s the problem… how is it you can understand complex things such as the ones you outlined but cannot understand simple things like ‘Jesus is the Son of God’ made in the image of God just as Adam, the first man, was image of God and Son of God before he sinned?!

It is a very different kind of ‘understanding’ and one which comes to us from God Himself. All we have to do is to lean on Him, and not upon our own understanding.

Whoa??!! Are you sure the understanding comes from YHWH GOD, “The Father of creation and the life giver “; and not ‘HE who desired to be God sitting on the mount of God’?

Firstly, I do not mean that there are different levels of importance among the Persons of the Trinity. None is before or after another; none is greater or less than another.

You may say that there are no differences of importance - but that would be incorrect. It is clear that GOD: the Father is GREATER than Jesus: The Son. Even Jesus says it himself:

• ‘My Father is greater than I’

Jesus depends entirely on his Father God. God gives unto the son all that the son has. All is from the Father - because that is what ‘Father’ means… and Jesus is Son, because that’s what ‘Son’ pertains to: ‘Receiver in goodness from the Father’: Jesus RECEIVES glory from the Father just as he receives power:

• ‘Father, I know you always hear me when I pray!’

Before Jesus carries out any ‘miracle’ he first prays to the Father FOR the use of the spirit of the Father. Imagine a son who has access to a high power car belonging to his Father. He COULD just take the car when he feels like it but that would be wrong! What is proper is that the son first asks the Father if he can use the car - Jesus always acts properly!

But all three Persons are co-eternal together and co-equal.

There are no scriptures that say any such thing - it is only trinity that makes such a claim.

No. One God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity.

There are no scriptures that says any such thing? Can you produce one?

LOL! I am not surprised that you’re not surprised. However, my belief in the Triune God comes from God Himself.

Which ‘God’ are you talking about - The ‘Trinity God’?

Your views are predicable, Soapy, but easily dismissed.

Well, thank you. I really do try to be consistent about the truth and knowing that a trinitarian is dismissing the truth only strengthens the point that trinity ideology is a false ideology.

 

[Soapy]

Of course not. Why would I consider that Sosthenes is God?

Because in the same context you think Jesus is God!

There are clearly two persons, one only of whom is called ‘God’ and the other is called ‘Lord’.

Clearly, God is greater than Lord in the same way that King is greater than Prince.

And Jesus is stated as being the ‘Prince of Peace’… Who then is ‘King of Peace’?

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: ↑ Well there you go again assuming things I have never said before. So no dear friend, I have never said that Jesus is not God, that is exactly what the scriptures say word for word as posted to you many times now that you refuse to respond to. You seem to be arguing against scripture which is Gods Words not my words disagreeing with your words that are not God's Words but simply your words not agreeing with the scriptures shared with you. We are better off to believe what the scriptures teach in my view Soapy. Ignoring Gods Word (scripture) does not make them disappear.

But so the reader is not led astray by what you are posting lets add the scriptures back so everyone can see what the scriptures say word for word disagreeing with what you say word for word...

The Apostles calling Jesus the God of creation...

• John 20:28 28 Thomas answered him, “MY LORD AND MY GOD!”

• Titus 2:13 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of OUR GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST

• Hebrews 1:1-2 1, God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2, HAS IN THESE LAST DAYS SPOKEN TO US BY HIS SON, WHOM HE HAS APPOINTED HEIR OF ALL THINGS, BY WHOM ALSO HE MADE THE WORLDS; 3, WHO BEING THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS GLORY, AND THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON, AND UPHOLDING ALL THINGS BY THE WORD OF HIS POWER, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high

• Hebrews 1:8 8 BUT TO THE SON HE (the father) SAYS "YOUR THRONE O GOD (Jesus) IS FOREVER AND EVER, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

• Matthew 1:23 23 “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name IMMANUEL WHICH MEANS GOD WITH US.

• John 1:1-4 ;14 1, IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, AND THE WORD WAS GOD. 2, THE SAME WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD. 3, ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM; AND WITHOUT HIM WAS NOT ANY THING MADE THAT WAS MADE. 4, In him was life; and the life was the light of men. [10] He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. [14], AND THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, AND DWELT AMONG US, AND WE BEHELD HIS GLORY, THE GLORY AS OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER, FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH.

• 2 Peter 1:1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of OUR GOD AND SAVOIR JESUS CHRIST

• John 8:58 Jesus said to them: “Timeless truth I speak to you: Before Abraham would exist, I AM THE LIVING GOD.” (Aramaic)

• 1 John 5:20 20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son JESUS CHRIST HE IS THE TRUE GOD AND ETERNAL LIFE.

• Colossians 2:9 “FOR IN CHRIST ALL THE FULLNESS OF THE DEITY LIVES IN BODILY FORM."

The God head are three with one mind and purpose...

• John 10:30 I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE

• 1 John 5:7 “For there are three that bear witness in heaven: The FATHER, THE WORD (Jesus see John 1:1-4; 14), and the HOLY SPIRIT; and THESE THREE ARE ONE.”

• Matthew 28:19 9, Go ye therefore, and TEACH ALL NATIONS, BAPTIZING THEM IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY GHOST

Jesus as creator God (see John 1:1-4; 14 and plural God below)...

• Genesis 1:26 26 And God said, LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE, AFTER OUR LIKENESS: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

• Genesis 3:22 “Then the Lord God said, BEHOLD, THE MAN HAS BECOME LIKE ONE OF US, KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and also take from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.”

• Genesis 11:7 “COME, LET US GO DOWN AND CONFUSE THEIR LANGUAGE so they will not understand each other

• Isaiah 6:8 “Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, “Whom shall I send, and WHO WILL GO FOR US?” Then I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

Jesus was before creation and the God of creation as shown word for word in the scriptures that disagree with your words that are unsupported by the scriptures (e.g. John 1:1-4; Hebrews 1:1-2,Hebrews 1:8-12 Colossians 1:16 etc). Receive Gods correction and be blessed Soapy. Ignoring Gods' Words does not make them disappear. According to Jesus the words of God we accept or reject will become our judge come judgement day (see John 12:47-48), Kind of not going to well for you now is it Soapy? We are best to believe and follow what Gods' Word says not seek to argue with them and try to explain them away which is what you are doing. Ignoring Gods Word and pretending they do not exist does not make them go away Soapy.

Your response here...

No, 3rdAngel, you said:

• “I was posting scripture to you stating Jesus is the God of creation”

Jesus is the God of creation? Yet it is the Father who is the THE CREATOR - which is what ‘Father’ means!

‘Father’ also means, ‘He who gives life …’

So how are you claiming that Jesus is ‘Father’: Creator and life giver’ in the beginning - the beginning!!

Interestingly, why ARE YOU NOT claiming that Jesus IS the Father .. the Creator; the life giver, wherein Jesus says:

• “I and the Father are one!”

Yeah, I know I’m weaponising you, but I know you are not silly enough to pick up a blunt weapon.

And notice that there is no ‘Trinity’ in ‘I and the Father are one’ even as there are only two persons seen in vision by the martyr, Stephen: ‘I saw the glory of God [Only the glory since God cannot be seen by earthly man] seated on his throne with Jesus standing next to him’

Here is a good example of you quoting you and not scripture again Soapy without addressing anything in the post content you are quoting from and the scriptures that are in disagreement with you. Notice there is nothing in any scripture you quote that does not say Jesus is not God? Likewise, notice that all the scriptures in the post you are quoting from say word for word that Jesus is God but you choose to not believe them.

Take Care.