"THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES

[3rdAngel]

In fact, there appears to be a quite a bit missing, but I'm sure this is mere appearance, one you and/or your fellow Sabbatarians can quickly dispel for us, at least for your fellow Christians who do not hold to a Sabbath. There is no scripture that says Sunday is "the Lords day" because the Jews did not name any day but the 7th. It was always 1st day, 2nd day, 3rd day, etc. Likewise there is no scripture that says Saturday is the Sabbath.

Read the OP... I was asking where is the scripture that says that "the Lords day" is Sunday or the first day of the week. I wrote this being aware of the nomenclature of the Hebrew days of the week. If you read the OP you would know this and what your posting here is simply a distraction proving once more you did not read or understand the OP.

No, there is no scripture that says the Lords day is Sabbath day, but I'd rather get right to chase

These again are your words disagreeing with Gods Word that says in Matthew 12:8 "The son of man is Lord of the Sabbath day" As posted and proven through the scriptures earlier;

The Greek words used for the day that JOHN was in the Spirit of is the for Lord's day are

• REVELATION 1:10 εγενομην εν πνευματι εν τη κυριακη ημερα και ηκουσα οπισω μου φωνην μεγαλην ως σαλπιγγος

The word "κυριακη" (translit. "kuriake") is an Adjective - Dative - Singular - Feminine. This means it is being used as a 'possessive' as ownership or belonging to ("of", see 1 Corinthians 11:20, "the Lord's supper"), which means the "day" in context belongs to "the Lord". It is literally "the Lord's (belonging to) day". This means, that the "day" in context is uniquely "the Lord's" out of all the 7 days of the week, for the day under consideration is that which exists within the week, as a day which repeats weekly. This is extremely important, as those who incorrectly assume it to mean "the first [day] of the week" in lieu of Jesus' resurrection, cannot get a weekly occurrence out of a one-time event, in fulfillment of typology of the Firstfruit/Wavesheaf in Leviticus 23:9-14, as made known in 1 Corinthians 15:20,23

The problem here however is that there is not a single scripture that references Sunday or the first day of the week (bible names for the days of the week) to being "the Lords day" in scripture.

According to the scripture "the Lords day" however can be referenced to "the Sabbath day" of Gods' 4th commandment found in Exodus 20:8-11.

Letting the scriptures answer this question

• WHAT DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES?
• MATTHEW 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY

This then promotes a bit of a dilemma for the Church as there is not a single scripture in all of the bible that days "the Lords day" from Revelation 1:10 is Sunday. Yet there is many scriptures referencing "the Lords day" or Gods' specific claims to ownership of any particular day to the Sabbath day that he blessed and set aside as a holy day of rest for a memorial of creation (see Genesis 2:1-3) and made one of Gods' 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11).

God's "ownership" of the Sabbath day or "Lord's day is also repeated elsewhere as "MY" (ownership of the day as in the Greek used in REVELATION 1:10 κυριακη). Other scriptures in the bible pointing to "the Lords day" as being the Sabbath day...

• MATTHEW 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY. (the Sabbath day is Lord's day)
• ISAIAH 58:13-14 [13], If you turn away your foot from the SABBATH, from doing your pleasure on MY HOLY DAY (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day); and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honorable; and shall honor him, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words: [14], Then shall you delight yourself in the LORD; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father: for the mouth of the LORD has spoken it.
• LEVITICUS 19:30 You shall keep MY SABBATHS, (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day)and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.
• EZEKIEL 20:12 Moreover also I gave them MY SABBATHS, (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day) to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ used in Revelations 1:10 is in reference to the Lord's ownership of the day. It does not say that this day is in reference to μιά των σαββάτων which means the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK. Sorry dear friend it seems that your words disagree with Gods Word so your argument is with God now me.

Scripturally, the Sabbath is the 7th Day, not Saturday.

According to the scriptures the Sabbath day is the seventh day of the week (see Exodus 20:10) made on the seventh day of the creation week in Genesis 2:1-3. No one said that the Sabbath day is Saturday so you are making arguments no one is arguing about here. According to the scriptures a day in Gods creation is the darkness first followed by the daylight second (Genesis 1). That means a day in Gods time is simply from sunset (start) to the next sunset (end). In our time the seventh day of the week is from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset.

Seventh Day Adventists (SDA's), at least the one's I've studied scripture with, appear to believe that the Sabbath is SATURDAY, which is incorrect.

I know SDA's as well and I do not know any that believe what you are claiming they believe. I think you are spreading misinformation.

The whole line of reasoning is to convince everyday, normative Christians that the Sabbath is not Sunday (something we never believed to begin with), and then "switch" us to conclude that the Sabbath is Saturday (something scripture never states).

The Sabbath has never been Sunday. There is not a single scripture in all the bible that teaches Sunday worship has replaced Gods Sabbath commandments of Gods 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) that give us a knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20) as a holy day of rest in honour of the resurrection of Jesus. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9. It seems Gods Word is in disagreement with your words again. So your argument here is with God not me whose commandments you are breaking which is sin according to the scriptures in 1 John 3:4.

If you want to argue that Resurrection Day is not Sunday, but the 1st day, that's fine. I would not disagree. If you want to argue that the Sabbath is not Saturday, but the 7th day, that's fine too. No disagreement there.

Then what is your argument? You have none. Your making arguments no one is arguing about. Go read the OP properly next time before posting.

But one of the problems with your "challenge" is that you want us to prove a negative. That is, that we hold the Sabbath as Sunday when we don't hold a Sabbath at all. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to believe that the Lord's Day is the Sabbath when it has always been Resurrection Day.

This section of your post only further convinces me that you did not read the OP. Where did I say in the OP that you hold that the Sabbath is Sunday? If I never posted any such thing why pretend that I did?

Must we hold a Sabbath? No.

According to the scriptures sin is defined in the scriptures as breaking Gods law and not believing Gods Word (see James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 14:23). According to James in James 2:10-11 if we break anyone of Gods 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin and death (Romans 3:19). We do not have to not lie, steal, murder, commit adultery, use Gods name in vain as well but not doing so only makes us sinners and the wages of sin is death according to the scriptures (Romans 6:23). I suggest you think your argument through. Your promoting sin which will keep all who knowingly practice it out of Gods kingdom (see Matthew 7:21-23).

 

[3rdAngel]

Do you understand why the Sabbath does not equal Saturday? It can, but it doesn't have to. Once you start though, you cannot change your 7th. So, if you are in ancient Roman looking at your 8 day weekly calendar, or perhaps in China or Egypt looking at your 10 day weekly, and you have named rather than simply counted your days, your Sabbath will fall on a different name day. It will not fall on a consistent named day like "Saturday" but it will fall on a consistent numbered day, which is every 7th day.

Your post here makes no sense. According to the Hebrew bible there is only seven days in the week and God not me tells us in Genesis 2:1-3 and in Gods Sabbath commandment in the 10 commandments that "The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God" in Exodus 20:10. According to the scriptures only Gods Words are true and we should believe and follow them over the teachings and traditions of men that lead us away from Gods and His Word to break the commandments of God into sin and unbelief (see Romans 3:4; Matthew 15:3-9)

This is why I believe the premise of the OP to be faulty.

As already proven in this post and the last few posts before this one you are making strawman arguments no one is arguing about. Therefore you have not proven any premise in this OP false. Both this OP and my responses to all your posts with their supporting scripture addressing everything you have said proves why your posts are in error though. Receive Gods correction and be blesses dear friend. Ignoring Gods Word does not make it disappear. You are promoting sin over faith in Gods Word. Does this not worry you? It should (see Hebrews 10:26-31). Gods Word does not teach lawlessness which is what you are teaching.

I've been through this verse a number of times, and at no time does it say the Lord's Day equals the Sabbath. Instead, it clearly shows no one today actually keeps a Sabbath. Let's look at it again:

“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Here you go making strawman arguments again. Where did I ever post in this OP or was I ever using Exodus 20:8-11 as a proof text to prove that the Sabbath day is a reference to "the Lords day" If I have never made this claims why pretend I have said these things? This again only proves you did not read the OP because you keep making arguments to things I have never once stated in this OP or in this thread.

It's simple to understand why. If you're resting 7 days a week, the Sabbath can become like any other day when all days seem the same. You're rest, for those under the Sabbath, is commanded by God. To make this day of rest more pronounced, and to really sink it in your head, God commands work the other six days. This reminds the Jews of their bondage in Egypt, but not so much as when they had to work all seven days. The seventh day is a day or rest and respite, a day of relief that reminds the Jews of their emancipation from their Egyptian taskmasters. Yet, I suspect many of our Christian Sabbatarian friends are taking TWO day weekends when the command is for ONE day of rest! If they treat their 1st day like the 7th, how is the 7th Day kept holy? I can imagine a scenario where Christians start to believe they can give EVERY day rather than just the 7th to the Lord! Can you imagine the spiritual darkness that would descend upon the earth then? Look, I'm not trying to scare anyone, but I've heard many Christian Sabbatarians have come back from week long (Yes, count them...7 WHOLE Days) of vacation, with NO work component at all! Yes, Sabbath means rest, but work means work.So I think this question needs to be answered. Why are you asking us to keep a command that you yourselves do not keep?

It is clear you do not understand the scriptures. Exodus 20:10 defines the Sabbath when it says; "But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD..." The scriptures say no where that no one should go on holidays anywhere. The scriptures in

• Exodus 20:8-11 8, Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9, Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: 10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God: in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates: 11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: why the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and made it holy.

The context is to "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy". Six days you shall labor and do all your work BUT THE SEVENTH DAY... is not stating that we have to work 6 days a week it is stating that we have 6 other days to do our work the "BUT" is the reference point stating that of all the says of the week God calls us to "Remember the seventh day of the week to keep it Holy" Why? because Exodus 20:11 says For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: why the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and made it holy. God is quoting back to Genesis 2:1-3. You do err not knowing scriptures in order to teach lawlessness.

Verse 40 clearly spells out that "On these two commandment depend ALL the law and the prophets." Some think this is easy, but it's actually a hard teaching. It's why Jesus was able to heal (work) on the Sabbath. Let's look at 3rd Angel's response here:

Response

3rdAngel said: You do know that Jesus is quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 right? Love does now abolish Gods law. Love how Gods law is obeyed. Love does not disobey Gods law. Love is expressed in obeying Gods law from the heart. Why do you think Jesus says at the end of quoting the two great commandment of love to God and man in Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 that her says at the end "On these two commandments hang (means attached to) all the law and the prophets (Matthew 26:40).

You continued....

I don't see where Metis claims that Love "abolishes God's law". Instead, he appears to be claiming that Love is a law of God, meaning love permeates all the commandments: "You shall LOVE the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind" and "You shall LOVE your neighbor as yourself."
Since love is foundational for all the others, nothing has been "abolished".

If love does not abolish Gods Law then there is no excuse to break Gods law now is there?

Let us remember, God loved us when we didn't love Him, and if God's love depends on having obeyed God's law, then their is not much hope for us or the rest of mankind. "For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son, so that whoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16 “Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice. ' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” ” Matthew 9:12-13 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.” Romans 3:10-12 “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.” Ephesians 2:8-10 If we could keep God' laws and commandments, we would not need Christ and we certainly would not need grace. The Pharisees thought they were keeping the law, and we all know what Jesus thought of them.

Indeed.. but what has this have to do with the OP? - Nothing. Gods salvation is from sin not to continue practicing sin. So it is wrong to think that God saves us to continue practicing known unrepentant sin which is defined in the scriptures as breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments and not believing and following what Gods Word says. This is why Jesus says unless a man is born again he cannot enter into the kingdom of Heaven. Those who are born again do not practice sin (see 1 John 3:8-9). Those who knowingly practice known unrepentant sin according to 1 John 2:3-4 have not seen or know God according to the scriptures (see also Hebrews 10:26-31 and Matthew 7:21-23).

Take Care.

 

[Oeste]

Yep, exactly, and his approach was not altogether different from the Jewish sage Hillel the Elder who was born shortly before Jesus' time, and that opinion carried forth into the School of Hillel.

Hi @metis,

Consider Jesus’s encounter with the rich man at Matthew 19. At verse 16 he is asked:

“Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”​

Jesus's first response was general:

“…If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”​

But the rich man, not satisfied, makes his inquiry more specific. He wants to know which commandments he needs to keep to get eternal life:

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.​

Now this would have been a GREAT time for Jesus to tell this rich man about keeping the 4th commandment (which may be your 3rd). In any event, we immediately notice the Sabbath is COMPLETELY MISSING from Jesus’s response:

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”​

This is quite an amazing response! Jesus doesn’t simply tell the man “….keep the commandments” over again, but he “wades in the weeds” of the commandments to let this man know which commandments he need keep if he is to have eternal life.

Surely if our Sabbatarian friends had been around at the time, they could of tapped Jesus on shoulder and kindly interjected that he forgot to mention the importance of Sabbath keeping, but unfortunately they were not there, and this is what we have.

So on the one hand we have the scriptural words of Jesus, and on the other the doctrinal mandates of the Sabbatarians, both concerning what is necessary for Christians to have life.

Jesus's personal ministry was directed at the Jews, and my feeling is if he did not find it necessary to hang a Sabbath commandment around this man's neck, then I see no warrant to hang a Sabbath on Christians.

I invite our Sabbath keepers to comment on this. Again, I have no objection to Christians keeping a Sabbath if they so desire. My objection is when you make the Sabbath a requirement of other Christians for life.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Verse 40 clearly spells out that "On these two commandment depend ALL the law and the prophets." Some think this is easy, but it's actually a hard teaching. It's why Jesus was able to heal (work) on the Sabbath.

Jesus was able to heal on the Sabbath (or so the story goes) because it is not a violation of Jewish law to heal via prayer on the Sabbath.

 

[metis]

I invite our Sabbath keepers to comment on this. Again, I have no objection to Christians keeping a Sabbath if they so desire. My objection is when you make the Sabbath a requirement of other Christians for life.

Well said, imo.

The early Church dealt with this as there were two days of observance, whereas Shabbos was observed and Sunday was the "Agape Meal". One can understand that having two such days could be a problem, so the decision was to do both observances at the same time on Sunday, and this is mentioned in the Didache written at the end of the 1st century.

 

[3rdAngel]

Hi @metis, Consider Jesus’s encounter with the rich man at Matthew 19. At verse 16 he is asked: “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” Jesus's first response was general:“…If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” But the rich man, not satisfied, makes his inquiry more specific. He wants to know which commandments he needs to keep to get eternal life: 18 “Which ones?” he inquired. Now this would have been a GREAT time for Jesus to tell this rich man about keeping the 4th commandment (which may be your 3rd). In any event, we immediately notice the Sabbath is COMPLETELY MISSING from Jesus’s response: Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

This is quite an amazing response! Jesus doesn’t simply tell the man “….keep the commandments” over again, but he “wades in the weeds” of the commandments to let this man know which commandments he need keep if he is to have eternal life.

Surely if our Sabbatarian friends had been around at the time, they could of tapped Jesus on shoulder and kindly interjected that he forgot to mention the importance of Sabbath keeping, but unfortunately they were not there, and this is what we have.

So on the one hand we have the scriptural words of Jesus, and on the other the doctrinal mandates of the Sabbatarians, both concerning what is necessary for Christians to have life.

Jesus's personal ministry was directed at the Jews, and my feeling is if he did not find it necessary to hang a Sabbath commandment around this man's neck, then I see no warrant to hang a Sabbath on Christians.

I invite our Sabbath keepers to comment on this. Again, I have no objection to Christians keeping a Sabbath if they so desire. My objection is when you make the Sabbath a requirement of other Christians for life.

This post only show how much you do not understand the scriptures and promoting a doctrine of lawlessness which the bible does not teach. Did you think your argument through at all? Are you really going to try and argue now, that the bible teaches we only have to obey the last six commandments of our duty of love to our fellow man and no longer need to obey those commandments in the first four commandments of our duty of love to God which is the greatest commandment?

Think your argument through before posting dear friend. According to your argument and post above, in your view it is now ok to; have other Gods, make idols and bow down to them and commit idolatry, use Gods name in vain as long so we now follow the last 6 commandments of love to our fellow man? I do not think you have thought what you have said above through have you. Lets look at the contest and detail you miss out in order to promote false teachings of lawlessness and sin.

• Matthew 19:16-19 16, And, behold, one came and said to him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17, And he said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if you will enter into life, keep the commandments. 18, He said to him, Which? Jesus said, You shall do no murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19, Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 20, The young man said to him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21, Jesus said to him, If you will be perfect, go and sell that you have, and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22, But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. 23, Then said Jesus to his disciples, Truly I say to you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

FROM THE SCRIPTURES ABOVE

1. The question is asked Jesus by the rich young ruler "What must I do that I may have eternal life (v19)
2. Jesus says if you will enter into life you must keep the commandments (10 commandments) (v17)
3. The rich your ruler asks Jesus which ones
4. Jesus quotes the 10 commandments on our duty of love to our neighbor (v18-19)
5. The rich young ruler tells Jesus has has obeyed these commandments from his youth what do I lack (v20)
6. Jesus tell him if you will be perfect sell everything that you have and come follow me (v21)
7. When the rich young ruler heard this he was sad because he was very rich and left Jesus (v22)
8. Jesus tells everyone it is difficult for those who have riches to enter into Gods kingdom (v23)

NOTE: Jesus is not saying anywhere in these scriptures we now only need to obey the last 6 commandments of our duty of love to our neighbour and no longer have to obey those commandments showing our duty of love to God. That would put Jesus in contradiction with Jesus where Jesus says in a few chapters later in Matthew 22:36-40 that to love God with all your heart is the greatest commandment of all and the second greatest commandments is to love your neighbour as yourself and in Matthew 5:17-19. Jesus also says not to even think I have come to destroy or abolish the law or the prophets in Matthew 5:17-20. This proves your interpretation of the scriptures here that Jesus is teaching we no longer have to obey those commandments in Gods 10 commandments that are our duty of love to God is unbiblical and show how silly your post is and how you did not think your post content through very well as it is promoting sin and lawlessness against God.

So what is Jesus saying in Matthew 19:16-19 talking about? Jesus was teaching the rich young ruler that his problem was not his breaking those commandments in Gods 10 commandments that are our duty of love to His fellow man but he was putting his love of money and riches before his duty of love to God (first four commandments). Jesus showed the rich young ruler that He loved his riches more than God and told him that if he would be perfect to go sell his riches and come follow Jesus. This was when the rich young ruler saw his problem that he loved his riches more than God and went away sorrowful because was breaking the greatest commandments of all (Matthew 22:36-40).

Jesus perfectly obeyed all of Gods 10 commandments. Jesus kept the Sabbath commandments perfectly and taught others to keep it correctly. Jesus and all the apostles kept the Sabbath commandment according to the scriptures and there is not a single scripture in all the bible that says Gods Sabbath commandment is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9

Receive Gods Word and correction and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it disappear. The words of God we accept or reject become our judge come judgement day according to the scriptures in John 12:47-48. Your promoting false teachings of lawlessness. The bible does not teach what you are teaching. You did not think what you posted through very well did you.

Take Care.

 

[Oeste]

If you read the OP you did nothing in your response to address what the OP was talking about. You simply ignored the OP and the challenge posted. The OP is asking for scripture and there is no scripture that states anywhere in the bible that Sunday is "the Lords day". The only references to "the Lords day" in the bible is to Gods Sabbath day.

Please read my responses more carefully. The historic Christian church doesn't claims the Lord's day is Sunday. The Lord's day is RESURRECTION day, not "Sunday". It falls on a Sunday because Jesus rose on the first day of the week.

You premise the OP with the unfounded assertion that we celebrate Resurrection Day as a Sabbath Day. The Sabbath Day is the 7the Day. Resurrection Day is the first day of the week. We do not confuse the Sabbath Day with Resurrection Day and "NO" you have not shown that the Lord's Day at Revelation 1:10 is the 7th day Sabbath.

The word "κυριακη" (translit. "kuriake") is an Adjective - Dative - Singular - Feminine. This means it is being used as a 'possessive' as ownership or belonging to ("of", see 1 Corinthians 11:20, "the Lord's supper"),

Yes, we can trace back many things this way. Take "Saturday" for instance:

Saturday: Latin Sāturnī diēs (literally “Saturn's day”), or a day owned or possessed by the pagan god Saturn.
The original Old English pronunciation and spelling Saternesdæg, followed by the Middle English Saturdai before English speakers settled on Saturday.

I have no problem but with your grammar or etymology 3rdAngel, the problem arises when you combine the two into doctrine. SDA's claim that the Sabbath is Saturday. So if we say the Sabbath is on Saturday, we have a Day possessed by the Lord that is given on a Day possessed by Saturn. Conversely, if we say Saturday is the Sabbath, we have a Day possessed by Saturn that is given on a Day possessed by the Lord.

Either conclusion would be etymologically correct, but I don't see where this helps us much, as it only opens the door for other prowling the forums.

I know you do not celebrate Saturn anymore than I celebrate the Sun god, but there are others legalists here who believe we do.

So rather than claim that the Sabbath is Saturday, I think it better to simply claim it the 7th. After all, SDA's are known as Seventh Day Adventists and not Saturday Day Adventists. It's a simple point I make when I speak with my SDA friends, and they seem well with it.

But getting back to your argument, the "Lord's Day" is a day that belongs to the Lord. Why you think this means the Jewish Sabbath and only the Jewish Sabbath is unknown. There is no scripture that says the Lord's Day is the Sabbath Day.

Every "day" was created by our Lord God, Jesus Christ. Not only every former day but this day, and any future day to come. So all days belong to the Lord, which is why we give each day to him with the complete assurance we can not and need not add to his works. Back in the day, when mail was in it's early heyday, we might date a letter as "In the year of our Lord [date]". It was an acknowledgement that all days belong to God.

And since we need not add to his works, and since the work of Christ is complete, we can take the rest he offers, knowing that he will always be Lord, and yes, even Lord of the Sabbath.

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light Matthew 11:28-30​

Christ offered the Jews rest from the laws, not more laws. By the time Jesus arrived, the Pharisees had added so much to the law as to make it unrecognizable. Even the apostles admitted it was a yolk they couldn't bear.

This then promotes a bit of a dilemma for the Church as there is not a single scripture in all of the bible that days "the Lords day" from Revelation 1:10 is Sunday.

No dilemma here, as there is no need for scripture to claim the Lord's Day is Sunday.

 

[Oeste]

According to the scriptures the Sabbath day is the seventh day of the week (see Exodus 20:10) made on the seventh day of the creation week in Genesis 2:1-3. No one said that the Sabbath day is Saturday so you are making arguments no one is arguing about here.

That's simply not true. It's an argument you've made so many times that the Sabbath is Saturday, without any qualification, that I think readers have lost count. But let's look at a few.

Here blu 2 tells us that Sabbath is "plainly" Saturday, and you my friend, plainly agree:

As for when the Sabbath is, plainly it's Saturday. The word itself is Hebrew ('rest'), and the commandment is in the Tanakh, so you have only to ask any Jewish authority.

Agreed and good point only its from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset.

This wasn't a one off:

According to the scriptures that Sabbath is the "seventh day" of the week in Gods time to time as we know it is Friday sunset to Saturday sunset. According to the scriptures we are not to do any, business, secular work, shopping, buying and selling. It is a day of rest we are to set aside for God and doing good that Jesus made for all those who believe and obey His Word see Matthew 12:1-12.

However, I am glad to see that you are have now qualified your named days of Friday and Saturday to "our time".

Gods Words (not my words) state in the 4th commandment that "The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God" in Exodus 20:10. According to the scriptures and biblical time, the seventh day Sabbath our time is Friday sunset to Saturday sunset.

That is the point I was making with the calendar. If your culture has a 8 day or 10 day week, and you are keeping the Sabbath, then your named days will be different and your Sabbath will not always fall on a Saturday. Here it is again:

Do you understand why the Sabbath does not equal Saturday? It can, but it doesn't have to. Once you start though, you cannot change your 7th. So, if you are in ancient Roman looking at your 8 day weekly calendar, or perhaps in China or Egypt looking at your 10 day weekly, and you have named rather than simply counted your days, your Sabbath will fall on a different name day. It will not fall on a consistent named day like "Saturday" but it will fall on a consistent numbered day, which is every 7th day.

Even if this is a relatively minor point, it shows a glimmer of progress.

Seventh Day Adventists (SDA's), at least the one's I've studied scripture with, appear to believe that the Sabbath is SATURDAY, which is incorrect.

I know SDA's as well and I think you are spreading misinformation.

I have no idea why you believe this to be "misinformation" when the "misinformation" was spread by you.

Please re-read your quotes above. They clearly show you claiming the Sabbath is Saturday! You've been telling us that the Sabbath is Saturday for quite a while now.

The whole line of reasoning is to convince everyday, normative Christians that the Sabbath is not Sunday (something we never believed to begin with), and then "switch" us to conclude that the Sabbath is Saturday (something scripture never states).

The Sabbath has never been Sunday. There is not a single scripture in all the bible that teaches Sunday worship has replaced Gods Sabbath commandments of Gods 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) that give us a knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20) as a holy day of rest in honour of the resurrection of Jesus.

We don't teach that Sunday worship has "replaced" the Jewish Sabbath.

Scripture clearly teaches that if you want to observe a holiday like the Sabbath you can. It's just not recommended. It was the Judaizers who felt the need to keep a Sabbath.

If you want to argue that Resurrection Day is not Sunday, but the 1st day, that's fine. I would not disagree. If you want to argue that the Sabbath is not Saturday, but the 7th day, that's fine too. No disagreement there.

Then what is your argument? You have none.

Are you having trouble reading? All you have to do is finish the paragraph. Here, I'll post the entire paragraph for you:

If you want to argue that Resurrection Day is not Sunday, but the 1st day, that's fine. I would not disagree. If you want to argue that the Sabbath is not Saturday, but the 7th day, that's fine too. No disagreement there. But one of the problems with your "challenge" is that you want us to prove a negative. That is, that we hold the Sabbath as Sunday when we don't hold a Sabbath at all. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to believe that the Lord's Day is the Sabbath when it has always been Resurrection Day.

I think the readers here can see my argument pretty plain and clear.

Your making arguments no one is arguing about

You mean, like you're never telling us the Sabbath is Saturday when you did?

Go read the OP properly next time before posting.

You may want to take some of your own advice.

For example, you just asked me what my argument was.
Then you told me I had no argument.
Then you tell me I was making arguments no one is arguing about,

If I am making an argument no one is arguing about, then an argument has been made.

You managed to do all of this in a single paragraph. Had you just finished the paragraph rather than stopping at each and every sentence, you would have "found" the argument like everyone else.

Then you top it off by telling me that I need to "Go read the OP properly next time before posting" when it's obvious your argument doesn't make any sense.

This section of your post only further convinces me that you did not read the OP. Where did I say in the OP that you hold that the Sabbath is Sunday? If I never posted any such thing why pretend that I did?

Well that's pretty easy. You posted it right here, when you claimed that we attempted to "change" the Sabbath to Sunday:

Your probably better off to do some more research before posting here as it is clear that you do not know the scriptures, the Greek meaning of Revelation 1:10, and Christian church history and application and use of the term "the Lords day" which is a reference used by some in the early Church well after the death of Jesus and all the Apostles to try and justify the change of Gods seventh day Sabbath commandment to Sunday the first day of the week in honor of the resurrection of Jesus.

We never tried to change the Sabbath commandment to Sunday. That is nonsense and a lie.

We have all been taught lies at Sunday school.

Some lies are taught on Saturdays.

 

[3rdAngel]

Please read my responses more carefully. The historic Christian church doesn't claims the Lord's day is Sunday. The Lord's day is RESURRECTION day, not "Sunday". It falls on a Sunday because Jesus rose on the first day of the week.

I have read all your responses and replied to everything you have said with detailed scriptures responses proving your false teachings of lawlessness are not biblical from which I am still awaiting a response from you addressing the post context and the scriptures and context that are in disagreement with you. Now look friend, stop with the nonsense. You say "The historic Christian church doesn't claims the Lord's day is Sunday. The Lord's day is ressurrection day, not "Sunday". It falls on a Sunday because Jesus rose on the first day of the week". That is literally the same thing. The resurrection day or first day of the week is our Sunday. Your post makes no sense.

You premise the OP with the unfounded assertion that we celebrate Resurrection Day as a Sabbath Day. The Sabbath Day is the 7the Day. Resurrection Day is the first day of the week. We do not confuse the Sabbath Day with Resurrection Day and "NO" you have not shown that the Lord's Day at Revelation 1:10 is the 7th day Sabbath.

Please stop with the lies and misrepresentation and read the OP. Show me where I have ever posted anywhere in this OP and thread that I have said that you or anyone else here believe Sunday worship is the Sabbath day? Is you cannot why pretend I am saying things I have never said? Again as proven through the scriptures and the OP earlier, there is no scripture linking Sunday or the first day of the week to being "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10 anywhere in the entire bible and you posting your words in disagreement with Gods Word saying that the scriptures I have posted do not show that "the Lords day" is the Sabbath day are simply you closing your eyes and ears in denial of the scriptures sent you that are in disagreement with you that you are unwilling to address that prove what you say is untruthful.

As posted many times now, and proven through the scriptures earlier;

The Greek words used for the day that JOHN was in the Spirit of is the for Lord's day are

• REVELATION 1:10 εγενομην εν πνευματι εν τη κυριακη ημερα και ηκουσα οπισω μου φωνην μεγαλην ως σαλπιγγος

The word "κυριακη" (translit. "kuriake") is an Adjective - Dative - Singular - Feminine. This means it is being used as a 'possessive' as ownership or belonging to ("of", see 1 Corinthians 11:20, "the Lord's supper"), which means the "day" in context belongs to "the Lord". It is literally "the Lord's (belonging to) day". This means, that the "day" in context is uniquely "the Lord's" out of all the 7 days of the week, for the day under consideration is that which exists within the week, as a day which repeats weekly. This is extremely important, as those who incorrectly assume it to mean "the first [day] of the week" in lieu of Jesus' resurrection, cannot get a weekly occurrence out of a one-time event, in fulfillment of typology of the Firstfruit/Wavesheaf in Leviticus 23:9-14, as made known in 1 Corinthians 15:20,23

The problem here however is that there is not a single scripture that references Sunday or the first day of the week (bible names for the days of the week) to being "the Lords day" in scripture. According to the scripture "the Lords day" however can be referenced to "the Sabbath day" of Gods' 4th commandment found in Exodus 20:8-11.

Letting the scriptures answer this question

WHAT DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES?

• MATTHEW 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY

This then promotes a bit of a dilemma for the early Church after the death of the apostles, as there is not a single scripture in all of the bible that days "the Lords day" from Revelation 1:10 is Sunday. Yet there is many scriptures referencing "the Lords day" or Gods' specific claims to ownership of any particular day to the Sabbath day that he blessed and set aside as a holy day of rest for a memorial of creation (see Genesis 2:1-3) and made one of Gods' 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11).

God's "ownership" of the Sabbath day or "Lord's day is also repeated elsewhere as "MY" (ownership of the day as in the Greek used in REVELATION 1:10 κυριακη). Other scriptures in the bible pointing to "the Lords day" as being the Sabbath day...

• MATTHEW 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY. (the Sabbath day is Lord's day)
• ISAIAH 58:13-14 [13], If you turn away your foot from the SABBATH, from doing your pleasure on MY HOLY DAY (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day); and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honorable; and shall honor him, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words: [14], Then shall you delight yourself in the LORD; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father: for the mouth of the LORD has spoken it.
• LEVITICUS 19:30 You shall keep MY SABBATHS, (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day)and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.
• EZEKIEL 20:12 Moreover also I gave them MY SABBATHS, (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day) to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ used in Revelations 1:10 is in reference to the Lord's ownership of the day. It does not say that this day is in reference to μιά των σαββάτων which means the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK. Sorry dear friend it seems that your words disagree with Gods Word so your argument is with God now me. The scriptures teach that "the Lords day" is indeed the Sabbath day. Your response here has been silence. Does that not worry you?

More to come

 

[3rdAngel]

Yes, we can trace back many things this way. Take "Saturday" for instance: Saturday: Latin Sāturnī diēs (literally “Saturn's day”), or a day owned or possessed by the pagan god Saturn. The original Old English pronunciation and spelling Saternesdæg, followed by the Middle English Saturdai before English speakers settled on Saturday. I have no problem but with your grammar or etymology 3rdAngel, the problem arises when you combine the two into doctrine. SDA's claim that the Sabbath is Saturday. So if we say the Sabbath is on Saturday, we have a Day possessed by the Lord that is given on a Day possessed by Saturn. Conversely, if we say Saturday is the Sabbath, we have a Day possessed by Saturn that is given on a Day possessed by the Lord.

You are a funny one. Why make up strawman arguments no one is arguing about? What you have posted here has no relevance to the OP now does it. Do you want to discuss my post content do you know and address it rather than seek to ignore what is written to you and that is in disagreement with you? I can understand your unwillingness. You do not need to if you do not want to just say so. You are free to believe whatever you wish. This post only proves to me you have not read anything in my earlier posts to you proving you are ignoring the scriptures and the posts that are in disagreement with you. Is that all you got? All you are able to post is things I do not believe or have ever said to you and that are not relevant to this OP?

Either conclusion would be etymologically correct, but I don't see where this helps us much, as it only opens the door for other prowling the forums.
I know you do not celebrate Saturn anymore than I celebrate the Sun god, but there are others legalists here who believe we do.

Read the OP.. I have never once stated that people who celebrate Sunday as the Lords day are practicing Sun worship. Maybe you have this OP mixed up with someone else. Your posts are not being truthful to this OP or our discussion.

So rather than claim that the Sabbath is Saturday, I think it better to simply claim it the 7th. After all, SDA's are known as Seventh Day Adventists and not Saturday Day Adventists. It's a simple point I make when I speak with my SDA friends, and they seem well with it.

As posted to you in earlier posts. I have never stated that the Sabbath is Saturday. I have only ever posted to you that Gods Sabbath is the seventh day of the week that starts from our time sunset Friday (start) to sunset Saturday (finish). I also posted to you that you are misrepresenting also what others believe when you claim that SDA's believe Saturday our time in the Sabbath. This has already been shared with you so you are either not reading what has already been written or are deliberately misrepresenting what has been posted to you. Which is it? One thing is truth though, once again your making arguments that no one is arguing about while not addressing anything in this OP.

But getting back to your argument, the "Lord's Day" is a day that belongs to the Lord.

This has already been stated in the OP. Did you read it?

Why you think this means the Jewish Sabbath and only the Jewish Sabbath is unknown. There is no scripture that says the Lord's Day is the Sabbath Day. Every "day" was created by our Lord God, Jesus Christ. Not only every former day but this day, and any future day to come. So all days belong to the Lord, which is why we give each day to him with the complete assurance we can not and need not add to his works. Back in the day, when mail was in it's early heyday, we might date a letter as "In the year of our Lord [date]". It was an acknowledgement that all days belong to God. And since we need not add to his works, and since the work of Christ is complete, we can take the rest he offers, knowing that he will always be Lord, and yes, even Lord of the Sabbath. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light Matthew 11:28-30 Christ offered the Jews rest from the laws, not more laws. By the time Jesus arrived, the Pharisees had added so much to the law as to make it unrecognizable. Even the apostles admitted it was a yolk they couldn't bear.

According to the scriptures, there is no such thing as the Jewish Sabbath. Jesus says that He made the Sabbath for all mankind in Mark 2:27. God made the Sabbath day in the creation week on the seventh day in Genesis 2:1-3. There was no Jew, no Israel, no Moses no sin and no law when God made the Sabbath day for all mankind. There was only Adam and Eve who were created on the 6th day of the creation week in Genesis 1:26-31. According to the scriptures God blessed the seventh day of the week and made the seventh day of the week a holy day of rest as a memorial of creation (Exodus 20:8-11). The seventh day of the week is the only day in the whole bible that God claims as His holy day of rest because if links back to created and the day that God made for mankind as a memorial of creation and a celebration of God as our creator(see Mark 2:26; Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11 compare Isaiah 58:13-14; Leviticus 19:30; Ezekiel 20:12 and Matthew 12:8. The scriptures provided in this post prove that you are in error and there is no truth in your words that are simply denying Gods Word. Your argument is with God not me.
Exodus 20:10 defines the Sabbath when it says; "But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD..." The scriptures say no where that no one should go on holidays anywhere. The scriptures in

• Exodus 20:8-11 8, Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9, Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: 10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God: in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates: 11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: why the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and made it holy.

The context is to "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy". Six days you shall labor and do all your work BUT THE SEVENTH DAY... is not stating that we have to work 6 days a week it is stating that we have 6 other days to do our work the "BUT" is the reference point stating that of all the says of the week God calls us to "Remember the seventh day of the week to keep it Holy" Why? because Exodus 20:11 says For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: why the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and made it holy. God is quoting back to Genesis 2:1-3. You do err not knowing scriptures in order to teach lawlessness.

No dilemma here, as there is no need for scripture to claim the Lord's Day is Sunday.

There certainly is a delimma if there is no scripture in the entire bible that links "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10 to the first day of the week (Sunday). This then promotes a bit of a dilemma for the early Church as there is not a single scripture in all of the bible that days "the Lords day" from Revelation 1:10 is Sunday or the first day of the week. Yet there is many scriptures referencing "the Lords day" or Gods' specific claims to ownership to the Sabbath day that he blessed and set aside as a holy day of rest for a memorial of creation (see Genesis 2:1-3) and made one of Gods' 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) to His (ownership) Holy day. This has already been proven in the scriptures in Matthew 12:8; Isaiah 58:13-14; Leviticus 19:30; Ezekiel 20:12.

Receive Gods correction through His Word and be blessed ignoring it does not make it disappear.

 

[3rdAngel]

You are being untruthful again. Lets look at your claims here and prove why.

According to the scriptures the Sabbath day is the seventh day of the week (see Exodus 20:10) made on the seventh day of the creation week in Genesis 2:1-3. No one said that the Sabbath day is Saturday so you are making arguments no one is arguing about here.

Your response here...

That's simply not true. It's an argument you've made so many times that the Sabbath is Saturday, without any qualification, that I think readers have lost count. But let's look at a few. Here blu 2 tells us that Sabbath is "plainly" Saturday, and you my friend, plainly agree:

Your reference to Blu2

blü 2 said: As for when the Sabbath is, plainly it's Saturday. The word itself is Hebrew ('rest'), and the commandment is in the Tanakh, so you have only to ask any Jewish authority.

My response to Blu2

3rdAngel said: Agreed and good point only its from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset.

You say

This wasn't a one off:

and quote me again here..

3rdAngel said: According to the scriptures that Sabbath is the "seventh day" of the week in Gods time to time as we know it is Friday sunset to Saturday sunset. According to the scriptures we are not to do any, business, secular work, shopping, buying and selling. It is a day of rest we are to set aside for God and doing good that Jesus made for all those who believe and obey His Word see Matthew 12:1-12.

Now read what has been posted above. There is nothing in these posts with me claiming that Saturday our time is the Sabbath day. Note the highlighted sections of my posts are consistent with everything I have posted in this thread. The seventh day of the week Gods time is "Friday sunset to Saturday sunset. So once again I never made the claim that the Sabbath is Saturday our time. You were making this claim to things I never said or believed or was trying to make arguments no one was arguing about and not relevant to this OP or discussion. Can you see your mistake here or are you just being untruthful on purpose?

That is the point I was making with the calendar. If your culture has a 8 day or 10 day week, and you are keeping the Sabbath, then your named days will be different and your Sabbath will not always fall on a Saturday.

You are making a silly point. Why? God only made a seven day week which is what we have today so what you post here is not relevant to any discussion let alone the OP.

I have no idea why you believe this to be "misinformation" when the "misinformation" was spread by you.

You made the claims that SDA's believe our weekly time Saturday today is the Sabbath. That is misinformation. I have some SDA friends. Not one of them believe that claim. You are spreading misinformation.

We don't teach that Sunday worship has "replaced" the Jewish Sabbath. Scripture clearly teaches that if you want to observe a holiday like the Sabbath you can. It's just not recommended. It was the Judaizers who felt the need to keep a Sabbath.

As posted already according to the scriptures, there is no such thing as the Jewish Sabbath. Jesus says that He made the Sabbath for all mankind in Mark 2:27. God made the Sabbath day in the creation week on the seventh day in Genesis 2:1-3. There was no Jew, no Israel, no Moses no sin and no law when God made the Sabbath day for all mankind. There was only Adam and Eve who were created on the 6th day of the creation week in Genesis 1:26-31. According to the scriptures God blessed the seventh day of the week and made the seventh day of the week a holy day of rest as a memorial of creation (Exodus 20:8-11). The seventh day of the week is the only day in the whole bible that God claims as His holy day of rest because if links back to created and the day that God made for mankind as a memorial of creation and a celebration of God as our creator(see Mark 2:26; Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11 compare Isaiah 58:13-14; Leviticus 19:30; Ezekiel 20:12 and Matthew 12:8.

There is no where and not a single scripture in all the bible that teaches that Gods seventh day, Sabbath commandment of the 10 commandments has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday or the first day of the week as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. This teaching is simply a man-made teaching and tradition that has been handed down by the early Church after the death of Jesus and all the Apostles who kept the Sabbath according to Gods commandments. The man-made teaching and tradition of Sunday worship has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God (Exodus 20:8-11) against the very warning of Jesus who says those who do these things are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9. Begs the question who are we following; God and His Word or the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. I know who I believe and it is not you because there is no truth in your words. Only Gods Words are true and we should believe and follow them according to Romans 3:4; John 17:17 and Acts 5:32.

Take Care.

 

[blü 2]

Your reference to Blu2

First, you're correct and I was careless when I said 'Saturday is the Jewish sabbath'; yes, it begins at sundown on Friday and ends at sundown on Saturday.

Second, if you want to know whether the Christian Sunday sabbath is the Tanakh's sabbath, which is the origin of the sabbath at all, then very plainly it is not. Given an historical Jesus, he was a circumcised Jew and he observed the Jewish sabbath.

The Sunday sabbath appears to be an early Christian attempt at brand differentiation.

 

[metis]

Jesus perfectly obeyed all of Gods 10 commandments.

Not according to the Gospel, as he traveled from one village to another on Shabbat and picked grain, both of which fall under "work". He also said that Shabbot was made for man and not man for the Sabbath.

Also, to repeat, there are 613 Commandments, thus not just the Ten, and you really don't understand the nature of Jewish Law [halacha] as covered in Torah.

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: Jesus perfectly obeyed all of Gods 10 commandments.

Your response here,,

Not according to the Gospel, as he traveled from one village to another on Shabbat and picked grain, both of which fall under "work". He also said that Shabbot was made for man and not man for the Sabbath.

It is clear you do not know what you are talking about. What do you mean Jesus did not perfectly keep all the commandments relating to Him. You do know that sin is the transgression of the law right (1 John 3:4). Are you really calling Jesus a sinner? If that is the case everyone is lost according to the scriptures. You have the bible in contradiction to the bible that teaches Jesus was sinless (did not break Gods law).

JESUS WAS SINLESS

Sin is defined in the scriptures of breaking Gods law (1 John 3:4) and not believing Gods Word (Romans 14:23). Jesus did not break any of Gods laws and believed Gods Word. If He did not then he could not be our perfect sacrifice for sin and we would all be lost.

• 1 Peter 2:22 who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth
• 2 Corinthians 5:21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
• Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
• 1 John 3:5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.
• John 8:45-47 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me?
• Matthew 27:24 When Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but rather that a riot was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd, saying, “I am innocent of this Man’s blood; see to that yourselves.”
• John 19:4 Pilate came out again and *said to them, “Behold, I am bringing Him out to you so that you may know that I find no guilt in Him.”
• John 8:29 And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him.”
• Isaiah 53:9 His grave was assigned with wicked men, Yet He was with a rich man in His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was there any deceit in His mouth.
• 1 Peter 1:18-19 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.

If Jesus had sinned then he could not be our perfect sacrifice for sin and we would all be lost.

1. Simon Peter’s mother-in-law in Peter’s home (Mark 1:29–31).​

2. A man with a withered hand in the synagogue (Mark 3:1–6).​

3. A man born blind in Jerusalem (John 9:1–16).​

4. A crippled woman in a synagogue (Luke 13:10–17).​

5. A man with dropsy at a Pharisee’s house (Luke 14:1–6).​

6. A demon-possessed man in Capernaum (Mark 1:21–28).​

7. A lame man by the pool of Bethesda (John 5:1–18).​

NOTE: Whenever Jesus publicly healed someone on the Sabbath, the Pharisees accused Him of breaking the Sabbath law (Matthew 12:10; Mark 3:2, John 5:14; 9:14–16). That does not mean that Jesus broke the Sabbath law. That was because the Pharisees did not understand the Sabbath law. Jesus who was the maker of the Sabbath law came to teach us how to keep the Sabbath law and taught us that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath day (see Matthew 12:1-12). There is not a single scripture in all the bible that says it is sin to do good on the Sabbath. Your interpretation of the bible has the bible in contradiction with the bible. You do err not knowing the scripture.

Also, to repeat, there are 613 Commandments, thus not just the Ten, and you really don't understand the nature of Jewish Law [halacha] as covered in Torah.

Your post only show how much you do not understand the scriptures by promoting a doctrine of lawlessness which the bible does not teach. I have never once denied in this thread or elsewhere how many laws there are in the Old testament scriptures. So your post here is not relevant to this discussion and is only a strawman and distraction to this conversation. According to the scriptures we are in the new covenant now not the old (Hebrews 8:10-12). We no longer need to do animal sacrifices and sin offerings and follow the old covenant Sanctuary laws for atonement of our sins, circumcision, the annual feasts days and the old covenant Levitical laws to seek Gods forgiveness of sin . These were all prophetic "shadow laws" fulfilled and continued in Gods promised Messiah in Jesus and His work of salvation for mankind. (see John 1:29; Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-26 and Hebrews 10:1-22). So we do not need to follow these laws today in the new covenant. To do so would be to deny Gods promised Messiah in Jesus and sin against God.

Alternatively, the purpose of Gods eternal law in the 10 commandments from Exodus 20:3-17 is to give us the knowledge in both the Old and New covenants of good (moral right doing when obeyed) and evil (moral wrong doing when disobeyed); sin (moral wrong doing when disobeyed) and righteousness (moral right doing when obeyed) see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and Psalms 119:172.

Jesus perfectly obeyed all of Gods 10 commandments making Him sinless according to the scriptures (posted above). Jesus kept the Sabbath commandments perfectly and taught others to keep it correctly (Matthew 12:1-12). Jesus and all the apostles kept the Sabbath commandment according to the scriptures and there is not a single scripture in all the bible that says Gods Sabbath commandment is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9, We have all been taught lies at Sunday school.

Receive Gods Word and be blessed, ignoring it does not make it disappear. The Words of God we choose to accept or reject become our judge come judgement day. The bible does not teach lawlessness.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Your response here,,

It is clear you do not know what you are talking about. What do you mean Jesus did not perfectly keep all the commandments relating to Him. You do know that sin is the transgression of the law right (1 John 3:4). Are you really calling Jesus a sinner?

You never responded to his examples of Jesus not keeping the law. You need to go back, read the several examples he gives, and reply directly to each one. Thanks.

 

[3rdAngel]

You never responded to his examples of Jesus not keeping the law. You need to go back, read the several examples he gives, and reply directly to each one. Thanks.

Nonsense. That is not true at all. Try reading my post. I responded to His claim and that Jesus did not obey the Sabbath with scripture as shown below. If Jesus broke the Sabbath then he would be a sinner. The bible does not teach this and there is no scripture anywhere in the bible that teaches that we cannot save life and do good on the Sabbath. The bible teaches that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath day (see Matthew 12:1-12). It was the Pharisees that did not know how to keep the Sabbath. Not Jesus.

JESUS WAS SINLESS

Sin is defined in the scriptures of breaking Gods law (1 John 3:4) and not believing Gods Word (Romans 14:23). Jesus did not break any of Gods laws and believed Gods Word. If He did not then he could not be our perfect sacrifice for sin and we would all be lost.

• 1 Peter 2:22 who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth
• 2 Corinthians 5:21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
• Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
• 1 John 3:5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.
• John 8:45-47 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me?
• Matthew 27:24 When Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but rather that a riot was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd, saying, “I am innocent of this Man’s blood; see to that yourselves.”
• John 19:4 Pilate came out again and *said to them, “Behold, I am bringing Him out to you so that you may know that I find no guilt in Him.”
• John 8:29 And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him.”
• Isaiah 53:9 His grave was assigned with wicked men, Yet He was with a rich man in His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was there any deceit in His mouth.
• 1 Peter 1:18-19 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.

If Jesus had sinned then he could not be our perfect sacrifice for sin and we would all be lost.

1. Simon Peter’s mother-in-law in Peter’s home (Mark 1:29–31).​

2. A man with a withered hand in the synagogue (Mark 3:1–6).​

3. A man born blind in Jerusalem (John 9:1–16).​

4. A crippled woman in a synagogue (Luke 13:10–17).​

5. A man with dropsy at a Pharisee’s house (Luke 14:1–6).​

6. A demon-possessed man in Capernaum (Mark 1:21–28).​

7. A lame man by the pool of Bethesda (John 5:1–18).​

NOTE: Whenever Jesus publicly healed someone on the Sabbath, the Pharisees accused Him of breaking the Sabbath law (Matthew 12:10; Mark 3:2, John 5:14; 9:14–16). That does not mean that Jesus broke the Sabbath law. That was because the Pharisees did not understand the Sabbath law. Jesus who was the maker of the Sabbath law came to teach us how to keep the Sabbath law and taught us that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath day (see Matthew 12:1-12). Again, there is not a single scripture in all the bible that says it is sin to do good on the Sabbath.

Take Care.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Nonsense.

Nope. Not gonna read your long post which doesn't address his examples.

 

[3rdAngel]

Nope. Not gonna read your long post which doesn't address his examples.

Its ok, that is up to you. Nothing new for you not reading what is posted to you. Perhaps you should go read your own posts and see if they make any sense before posting? How would you know if my post does not address someones claims and examples if you did not read it? Your post above is simply an example of the scriptures in Isaiah 6:9-10 of all those who close their eyes to seeing and their ears to hearing Gods Word no matter what. Try opening your eyes and and taking your fingers out of your ears. Then you will see and hear more clearly and know what you are talking about. If you disagree I challenge you to tell me exactly how my post does not address in detail with scripture what I was responding to. If you can't why make claims that are not true. It is simply being dishonest and wasting everyone's time.

Take Care.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Its ok,

Again, only interested in your post if you address his examples.

 

[3rdAngel]

Nope. Not gonna read your long post which doesn't address his examples.

Its ok, that is up to you. Nothing new for you not reading what is posted to you. Perhaps you should go read your own posts and see if they make any sense before posting? How would you know if my post does not address someones claims and examples if you did not read it? Your post above is simply an example of the scriptures in Isaiah 6:9-10 of all those who close their eyes to seeing and their ears to hearing Gods Word no matter what. Try opening your eyes and and taking your fingers out of your ears. Then you will see and hear more clearly and know what you are talking about. If you disagree I challenge you to tell me exactly how my post does not address in detail with scripture what I was responding to. If you can't why make claims that are not true. It is simply being dishonest and wasting everyone's time.

Again, only interested in your post if you address his examples.

Already addressed. If you disagree I challenge you to tell me exactly how my post does not address in detail with scripture what I was responding to. If you can't why make claims that are not true. That is simply being dishonest and wasting everyone's time.