The Lords Prayer - ‘Thine is the Kingdom…’

[Soapy]

Was Jesus, the man that you believe in, perfectly good and without sin?

That is a deceptive question. Malicious request.
Jesus was asked a similar question by the Jews trying to trap him!

 

[Soapy]

I do not question that God is the inspiration of the Gospels through the Holy Spirit promised by Jesus.
Nor do I question that the Gospels present the truth as a whole.



I am not concerned about corruption. The inspired authors wrote with the concern for their individual communities, different places, different concerns to address. The historical context is important in discerning the minor differences between them.



That's where christology by the authors is apparent. In Mark 'This is my Son', after baptism, however in Mt and Lk Jesus is God's son prior to his baptism, at birth. And in John, the only Gospel that refers to Jesus as God, is again pushed back to pre-existence.



Jesus is God's son, never the Father, when we refer to God it is always the Father, not the Son. The Trinity requires demands that one takes into account the historical culture and understanding of the century in which the formula was developed. Were it today, it would be quite different.

There’s not much to say in response… seeing that there not much worth a response!!

 

[nPeace]

Well it also did not stop me, but JW management did not like it and they requested by our common friends that I should not attend their service in Kingdom Hall.
Regards

Well, if one disrupts a peaceful meeting where people are enjoying peace, what would you expect?
Would you like someone invited to a meal at your home to start complaining about the food, and telling your wife how she should cook, and insisting that you should do what he says? Would you welcome him to another gathering with your invited guest?
I wouldn't. I'd say, "Godd riddance!" The guests would too.

 

[nPeace]

Well it also did not stop me, but JW management did not like it and they requested by our common friends that I should not attend their service in Kingdom Hall.
Regards

Also, since you have no means of knowing whom Jesus has chosen to represent him on earth, today, what does complaining do?
Shouldn't you get that sorted out in mind first?
Isn't it dangerous for anyone to fight against the Lord, by opposing his witnesses, and ministers?

(2 Corinthians 5:20) Therefore, we are ambassadors substituting for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us. As substitutes for Christ, we beg: “Become reconciled to God.”

Would you harass an ambassador of China?
Why would you harass an ambassador of Christ?
Do you know them? Shouldn't you?

I think if you knew them you would share that with us. It's important.
We know the ambassadors of every country. It's no secret.
Ambassadors of Christ are more important. Agreed?

 

[Redemptionsong]

No to the second part of this claim. The fullness of God rested on Jesus AT HIS ANOINTMENT Baptism - that part is true. But Jesus did not have the AUTHORITY to use the spirit of God WITHOUT THE FATHER’S CONSENT.

For this reason, Jesus was TEMPTED immediately afterwards to see whether he would misuse it. He didn’t.

But also, Jesus REQUESTED AUTHORITY from the Father before using the using of the Father:

• ‘Father, I know you always hear me when I pray [silently for your spirit] but for these people standing here I speak out loud so they do know IT IS YOU WHO IS DOING THE DEED!’’ (John 11:41 & Ephesians 3:20)

I amalgamated Ephesians 3:20 to show that it is the power of God (the spirit of the Father, which you call the Holy Spirit, that is the ACTIONABLE FORCE in the miracles within the person anointed with it:

• “Now to Him [God/Father] who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to His power [Spirit of God/Father] that is at work within us,”

The Apostles carried out many great works / miracles greater than they could ever imagine after being anointed with the spirit of God/Father at Pentecost. But since they were each of them sinful in some measure they only received portions of the spirit of God/Father. Jesus, as is known, was sinless and received the full measure of the spirit.

But the point is that Jesus FIRST REQUESTED the use of the power of the spirit from the Father. If you think of a Father who has given permission to his beloved Son to use his very powerful car. The good son still says, ‘Father, can I use the car today?’
The car is NOT HIS (the son) So he STILL ‘prays his Father’ for the use of it.

And AUTHORITY… are you perhaps referring to:

• ‘All power and authority has been given to me…!’?

What is the time period in which this was said: Was it not just after Jesus said that ‘ALL THINGS HAVE BEEN ACCOMPLISHED (that is, ‘I have given them the word YOU GAVE ME TO GIVE TO THEM!’?

Was this before being born, just after he was born, before the baptism and anointing, after the the trial in the wilderness, or before he died and was resurrected, or after he was taken up to Heaven?

Matthew 28:18. 'And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto to me in heaven and in earth'.

John 3:35. 'The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand'.

The point at which the promise of the Father to the Son is fulfilled is, l believe, made clear in Daniel 7:13,14. Following his ascension to heaven the Son of Man receives dominion and a kingdom.

Whilst on earth, acting as a mediator between God and men, Jesus subordinates himself to the Father. Nevertheless, he always does the will of the Father, sinlessly.

 

[Redemptionsong]

No to the second part of this claim. The fullness of God rested on Jesus AT HIS ANOINTMENT Baptism - that part is true. But Jesus did not have the AUTHORITY to use the spirit of God WITHOUT THE FATHER’S CONSENT.

For this reason, Jesus was TEMPTED immediately afterwards to see whether he would misuse it. He didn’t.

But also, Jesus REQUESTED AUTHORITY from the Father before using the using of the Father:

• ‘Father, I know you always hear me when I pray [silently for your spirit] but for these people standing here I speak out loud so they do know IT IS YOU WHO IS DOING THE DEED!’’ (John 11:41 & Ephesians 3:20)

I amalgamated Ephesians 3:20 to show that it is the power of God (the spirit of the Father, which you call the Holy Spirit, that is the ACTIONABLE FORCE in the miracles within the person anointed with it:

• “Now to Him [God/Father] who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to His power [Spirit of God/Father] that is at work within us,”

The Apostles carried out many great works / miracles greater than they could ever imagine after being anointed with the spirit of God/Father at Pentecost. But since they were each of them sinful in some measure they only received portions of the spirit of God/Father. Jesus, as is known, was sinless and received the full measure of the spirit.

But the point is that Jesus FIRST REQUESTED the use of the power of the spirit from the Father. If you think of a Father who has given permission to his beloved Son to use his very powerful car. The good son still says, ‘Father, can I use the car today?’
The car is NOT HIS (the son) So he STILL ‘prays his Father’ for the use of it.

And AUTHORITY… are you perhaps referring to:

• ‘All power and authority has been given to me…!’?

What is the time period in which this was said: Was it not just after Jesus said that ‘ALL THINGS HAVE BEEN ACCOMPLISHED (that is, ‘I have given them the word YOU GAVE ME TO GIVE TO THEM!’?

Was this before being born, just after he was born, before the baptism and anointing, after the the trial in the wilderness, or before he died and was resurrected, or after he was taken up to Heaven?

Are you now ready to answer my question? [Post 98]

 

[nPeace]

When people dismiss the words of Jesus for their own ideas, we know that they represent Satan.
Two scriptures... from Jesus.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 7:29 but I know Him, because I am from Him and He sent Me."

To claim that Jesus is God himself, and God himself came as a man, is simply to call both God and Jesus liars.
1 John 2:22 Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son.

This is a teaching of Satan and his demons, and many seem happy ministers of Satan.
2 Corinthians 11:15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their actions.

What a sad end to meet, but I guess that's the price of having a wicked heart.

 

[Wildswanderer]

So when an error is discovered you think the error should remain?

You think that Jesus was wrong to say that man would try to corrupt the scriptures…. And you think that when that corruption is found out it should stand as gospel?

Wow! A corrupt shopkeeper intermittently cheats customers out of change after they purchase an item from his shop…. You discover that your change is wrong … you continue to shop at that same store even knowing that you are being short-changed by deceit??!!

You are so caught up with denying truth that you cannot even see sense in what Jesus Christ says. He warns you that there would be corruption bug you say that there is none!

You turn Jesus Christ into a liar!

You turn ‘YOUR LORD AND GOD’ into a liar!!

You are the one claiming scripture is in error, every scripture you disagree with, that is. Your claim doesn't make it so.

 

[Redemptionsong]

That is a deceptive question. Malicious request.
Jesus was asked a similar question by the Jews trying to trap him!

Maybe you could repeat the answer he gave.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Still full of incredulous lack of understanding….

Where did I say that God doesn’t desire praising?

Your minds (or even physical) eyes are so weeping with tears at seeing the truth that you cannot read properly what is written to you. I said that BOTH GOD and Jesus Christ receive Praise, Honor, and Glory… but only God receives WORSHIP.

Praise is worship. Praising Jesus as God cannot be anything but worship. How can you not understand that?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Was Jesus, the man that you believe in, perfectly good and without sin?

Yes.

 

[Soapy]

Praise is worship. Praising Jesus as God cannot be anything but worship. How can you not understand that?

Praising is worship?

Them we are all blasphemers since we all praise someone or other of mankind at some point of other during our life time.

Have you ever praised anyone of humanity? Then that person was Almighty God to you: Your Lord and God?!

 

[Soapy]

Maybe you could repeat the answer he gave.

‘Good’ is a relational term. It stands for nothing in its own. It must have a related subject.

Therefore, the answer I give to you is the answer that YOU give to this question:

• In the parable of the Talents, was the servant who made a lot of interest on the money his master gave him, Good?

Your answer should be ‘Yes’, because his master told him so.

And therefore, because the servant was Good, in your belief system, that servant was ALMIGHTY GOD!

Am I correct on your belief?

And, in fact, since, in your belief, Jesus is God, then that servant was also Jesus!!

Am I correct on your belief?

 

[Soapy]

You are the one claiming scripture is in error, every scripture you disagree with, that is. Your claim doesn't make it so.

What is wrong with stating that erroneous scripture verses are erroneous?

 

[Soapy]

Matthew 28:18. 'And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto to me in heaven and in earth'.

John 3:35. 'The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand'.

The point at which the promise of the Father to the Son is fulfilled is, l believe, made clear in Daniel 7:13,14. Following his ascension to heaven the Son of Man receives dominion and a kingdom.

This is correct in terms of ‘After the resurrections and the last battle were Sin, suffering, Satan, the demons, and all who are wicked in the eyes of Jesus (as judge), are destroyed’

Yes. And you see it is written that the one brought near to the ancient of days (YHWH) is one who looks like the Son of Man (A Human Person).

Whilst on earth, acting as a mediator between God and men, Jesus subordinates himself to the Father. Nevertheless, he always does the will of the Father, sinlessly.

Did you just say that while Jesus was on earth he was a human being?

The scriptures say that he is a human being in Heaven, too.

 

[Wildswanderer]

What is wrong with stating that erroneous scripture verses are erroneous?

Lol, because it puts your opinion above God's word.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Praising is worship?

Them we are all blasphemers since we all praise someone or other of mankind at some point of other during our life time.

Have you ever praised anyone of humanity? Then that person was Almighty God to you: Your Lord and God?!

I don't call other people Lord and God. Look at the praises Jesus accepted. Thomas literally calls him "
God" and Jesus doesn't object. That would be blasphemy if it were untrue.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Lol, because it puts your opinion above God's word.

I don't think so.
You choose to believe that the Bible is literally "God's word", but you ignore the Qur'an?

 

[Redemptionsong]

‘Good’ is a relational term. It stands for nothing in its own. It must have a related subject.

Therefore, the answer I give to you is the answer that YOU give to this question:

• In the parable of the Talents, was the servant who made a lot of interest on the money his master gave him, Good?

Your answer should be ‘Yes’, because his master told him so.

And therefore, because the servant was Good, in your belief system, that servant was ALMIGHTY GOD!

Am I correct on your belief?

And, in fact, since, in your belief, Jesus is God, then that servant was also Jesus!!

Am I correct on your belief?

'Good' can be used as a relative term, and it can be used as an absolute term. There are also 'gods', relative, and God, absolute.

I'm asking you if you think Jesus was perfectly, or absolutely, good?

 

[Wildswanderer]

I don't think so.
You choose to believe that the Bible is literally "God's word", but you ignore the Qur'an?

Yes. I don't believe that the Qur'an is inspired by God.