The Lords Prayer - ‘Thine is the Kingdom…’

[Redemptionsong]

The scriptures say that he is a human being in Heaven, too.

What part of Jesus died, and what was resurrected, lYO?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Yes. I don't believe that the Qur'an is inspired by God.

..so it was written by satan, then?

It is in agreement with what Jesus taught..

Our Father, whom art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name,
...

..but you aren't satisfied with that .. you want to be absolved of sins by a creed,
without adhering to "the law" .. at least, that's what it looks like.

 

[Wildswanderer]

..so it was written by satan, then?

It is in agreement with what Jesus taught..

Our Father, whom art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name,
...

..but you aren't satisfied with that .. you want to be absolved of sins by a creed,
without adhering to "the law" .. at least, that's what it looks like.

I'm not absolved by a creed. I'm absolved by the blood of Christ.
The law was types and shadows, Jesus was and is, the reality.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I'm not absolved by a creed. I'm absolved by the blood of Christ.

If you can't see that that is the same thing, then you will continue to be misled.

"the Catholic Church teaches that absolution is one of the acts of the Church's ordained minister in the sacrament of Penance wherein a baptized penitent with the proper dispositions can be assured of being forgiven."
Absolution - Wikipedia

Why is it that the majority of Christians don't agree with you, let alone others?

 

[paarsurrey]

What part of Jesus died, and what was resurrected, lYO?

Kindly quote from Jesus that only a part of Jesus died, please?
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Also, since you have no means of knowing whom Jesus has chosen to represent him on earth, today, what does complaining do?
Shouldn't you get that sorted out in mind first?
Isn't it dangerous for anyone to fight against the Lord, by opposing his witnesses, and ministers?

(2 Corinthians 5:20) Therefore, we are ambassadors substituting for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us. As substitutes for Christ, we beg: “Become reconciled to God.”

Would you harass an ambassador of China?
Why would you harass an ambassador of Christ?
Do you know them? Shouldn't you?

I think if you knew them you would share that with us. It's important.
We know the ambassadors of every country. It's no secret.
Ambassadors of Christ are more important. Agreed?

" (2 Corinthians 5:20) "

The verse " (2 Corinthians 5:20) " is not from Jesus, why must one form a wrong opinion on the basis of verses that never originated from Jesus, and why one likes to get misled, please? Right?

Regards

 

[Redemptionsong]

Yes.

We share that belief in common, then.

Kindly quote from Jesus that only a part of Jesus died, please?
Regards

There is ample evidence in the scriptures that Jesus died as the result of crucifixion. Jesus' body was lifeless when he was taken to the tomb.

Is there a soul that departed the body and descended into the grave ('sheol')? If one reads the book of Jonah, chapter 2, then Jonah's soul descended into sheol, and it is from there that he prays to his Father in heaven.

Jesus refers his audience to the story of Jonah, as a sign of what would happen in his own case.

 

[nPeace]

Is there a soul that departed the body and descended into the grave ('sheol')? If one reads the book of Jonah, chapter 2, then Jonah's soul descended into sheol, and it is from there that he prays to his Father in heaven.

Jesus refers his audience to the story of Jonah, as a sign of what would happen in his own case.

@muhammad_isa is that what you see in Jonah 2?
I read that Jonah nearly lost his life, but he did not die, but was rescued.
Is that what you read also?
Jonah 2:5 The waters engulfed me to take my life; the watery depths closed around me; the seaweed wrapped around my head.

I didn't read about a soul departing. How about you?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Jesus refers his audience to the story of Jonah, as a sign of what would happen in his own case.

Interesting you should say that.
Jonah did not actually die in the belly of the whale.

I read that Jonah nearly lost his life, but he did not die, but was rescued.
Is that what you read also?

Yes.

 

[Wildswanderer]

If you can't see that that is the same thing, then you will continue to be misled.

"the Catholic Church teaches that absolution is one of the acts of the Church's ordained minister in the sacrament of Penance wherein a baptized penitent with the proper dispositions can be assured of being forgiven."
Absolution - Wikipedia

Why is it that the majority of Christians don't agree with you, let alone others?

Even the Catholics agree that absolution comes through Jesus blood, they just add an intermediary.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Even the Catholics agree that absolution comes through Jesus blood, they just add an intermediary.

Not exactly..
Catholics believe in purgatory.
One's sins are not automatically forgiven.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Not exactly..
Catholics believe in purgatory.
One's sins are not automatically forgiven.

Nobody said anything about automatically.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Nobody said anything about automatically.

You said "The law was types and shadows, Jesus was and is, the reality."

..so what is sin, then?
What is there to be forgiven for?

 

[Redemptionsong]

@muhammad_isa is that what you see in Jonah 2?
I read that Jonah nearly lost his life, but he did not die, but was rescued.
Is that what you read also?
Jonah 2:5 The waters engulfed me to take my life; the watery depths closed around me; the seaweed wrapped around my head.

I didn't read about a soul departing. How about you?

Are you aware that Jonah's soul was in 'sheol'? According to Jewish thinking, 'sheol' is the place of departed souls.

Jonah 3:2. '...out of the belly of hell ('sheol') cried l...'

Jonah 3:6'...yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.'

If Jonah never died, then why did Jonah arise after being vomited up on dry land? [Jonah 3:3]

Why would the story of Jonah be called a 'sign' by Jesus if the story did not speak about resurrection from the dead?

 

[Soapy]

Lol, because it puts your opinion above God's word.

That’s an erroneous response. An erroneous verse is erroneous - God’s word to mankind is not erroneous.

It is mankind such as yourself who create error, distort the verses, deny the truth, and mislead those seeking the truth of God’s word.

Then you defend those errors by claiming that anyone who discovers these errors are in error!!!

 

[Soapy]

'Good' can be used as a relative term, and it can be used as an absolute term. There are also 'gods', relative, and God, absolute.

I'm asking you if you think Jesus was perfectly, or absolutely, good?

There is no ‘COULD’ about it concerning humanity. ‘Good’ is ALWAYS used relatively, even you yourself just said it: ‘Gods’ and ‘GOD’.

So you agree that your question was a deception since you yourself find it a trap!!! Tut tut !!!

But, come on. That was a silly question to ask me - add you thinking I’m naive… perhaps you are naive and think that such a naive question would confuse me or draw me into your trap.

But Jesus already gave the answer. Put into your terms then:

• Jesus and the servant are only RELATIVELY good relative to God - and different degrees of good relative to each other. Even angels (who are servants) are only relatively good relative to God
• Only God is ABSOLUTELY good relative to humanity and angels

An engine is the source of power. It is transmits its power to gearing around it. Each gearing is only relatively powerful relative to the engine from which it gets its power. The further away from the source of the power (the engine) the lesser the degree of efficiency is that power in the gearing.
The further you are away from the source of the truth of God, the lesser you are in the efficacy of that truth.
Next time, do not try such base deception. If you believe that your belief is true then you need only present the claim of your truth from scriptures - bringing in deceit and deception only INVALIDATES you as a truth speaker!!

 

[Soapy]

What part of Jesus died, and what was resurrected, lYO?

Thank you for these pointless questions! Jesus died physically like any other tortured human being. In the specific case it was by Roman way of humiliating a Jewish person by hanging him ‘From a Tree’ (a Cross). The specific manner of his death was by means of asphyxiation on that cross - the fate suffered by many people who are claimed to have conspired against Rome (of course we know that Jesus was in fact absolutely innocent).

Death in humanity means the separation of the spirit out of the body in which that spirit was housed.

The spirit in the body enlivens that body to act in the physical world according to the laws of physics in the world.

The spirit ‘sees’ through the physical mechanism of the eye of the body. It feels the elements of the world through the skin and flesh and bone of the body. It tastes through tongue and mouth of the body, it smells thd world’s odours through the nose of the body. In a robotic computer system the software is equivalent to the spirit - it receives input from sensors on or in the physical body of the robot.

And, like the robot, the Spirit actuates in output the attached moveable appendages of the body it is in.

A present robotic system does not have a great ‘sense’ of self-maintenance (it is getting there!) therefore it needs (like a baby) to be nurtured, maintained, fed, by an external source. But God has pre-dated such basic systems and made man a self-sustaining entity by way of the spirit seeking out sustenance, finding sources of nourishment to feed itself - even growing sources of sustenance. And should there be any ‘wounding’ of the body, the spirit seeks ways to restore, mend, heal the wound. A robot does not yet have that ability.

So, unless the spirit maintains the body, the body will decay back to rust.

—————————————

And so, at death, Jesus’ spirit left the body and was ‘received by God’ (rested with Him who creates and give the spirits). The body of Jesus, now in-enlivened, ‘Dead’ in human terms, was laid in a tomb, and made subject to decay - which takes several days to start decaying proper!

This is the process for all bodies in the created world (Angels are created beings but since they are spirit only there is no body to decay - hence they are not subject to DEATH as envisioned by humanity. The scriptures describes the equivalent for angels as being ‘Chained / Imprisoned in darkness awaiting DESTRUCTION’.

But, are you going to ask ‘What did Jesus do while he was dead?’

Ah, so much nonsense is spoken by Trinitarians who cannot believe that their ‘Lord and God’ was indeed DEAD (according to human terms). You are going to say that Jesus, while his body was dead in the grave, went in living spirit back to those in the days of Noah to give them the chance of salvation?

Don’t bother - …. Or do bother…. Here it is:

• “For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.” (1 Peter 3:18)
• “After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—” (1 Peter 3:19)
• “to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,” (1 Peter 3:20)
• “and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,” (1 Peter 3:21)
• “who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.” (1 Peter 3:22)

See, it was AFTER Jesus was resurrected (vs.18/19)and was taken up to Heaven….!! After Jesus was raised from the dead he was made IMMORTAL (alive in the Spirit). Hence scriptures also says:

• “So it is written: “The first man, Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.” (1 Cor 15:45)

Jesus, the Last Adam, became a living Spirit (what does it mean to be an ‘Adam’?)

• “For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!” (Romans 5:17)
• “For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.” (Romans 5:19)
• “We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life” (Romans 6: 4)

 

[Soapy]

I don't call other people Lord and God. Look at the praises Jesus accepted. Thomas literally calls him "
God" and Jesus doesn't object. That would be blasphemy if it were untrue.

And it is blasphemy. What Thomas is CLAIMED to have said is blasphemous.

But I point to the OTHER TEN DISCIPLES who did not react to Jesus like Thomas did. There is a simple reason for that: Jesus WAS NOT GOD!

Even Jesus HIMSELF said to Thomas:

• ‘Touch me; see that I am not a spirit, for a spirit does not have flesh and bone as I do!!’

Jesus says to Thomas that he is human. He’s the same Jesus he sat next to and drank and walked and talked with many times (albeit in a now immortal slams glorified body)

And also, WOW!! Can you imagine (obviously not!!) that ELEVEN and 40,000 human beings have SEEN GOD and yet most of them just went away doing their daily work shortly thereafter in a non-believing state?

Really, PETER and ANDREW SAW ALMIGHTY GOD and just went back to fishing for food.

And testament to the fallacy: Where is the book of Thomas’? Isn’t it discredited in every way? A work of fiction by someone trying to claim a glory by publishing with the claim that it was from Thomas?

Oh boy! Oh ye of little minds so easily misled by desperate Trinitarians under the guidance of Satan!

 

[Redemptionsong]

There is no ‘COULD’ about it concerning humanity. ‘Good’ is ALWAYS used relatively, even you yourself just said it: ‘Gods’ and ‘GOD’.

So you agree that your question was a deception since you yourself find it a trap!!! Tut tut !!!

But, come on. That was a silly question to ask me - add you thinking I’m naive… perhaps you are naive and think that such a naive question would confuse me or draw me into your trap.

But Jesus already gave the answer. Put into your terms then:

• Jesus and the servant are only RELATIVELY good relative to God - and different degrees of good relative to each other. Even angels (who are servants) are only relatively good relative to God
• Only God is ABSOLUTELY good relative to humanity and angels

An engine is the source of power. It is transmits its power to gearing around it. Each gearing is only relatively powerful relative to the engine from which it gets its power. The further away from the source of the power (the engine) the lesser the degree of efficiency is that power in the gearing.
The further you are away from the source of the truth of God, the lesser you are in the efficacy of that truth.
Next time, do not try such base deception. If you believe that your belief is true then you need only present the claim of your truth from scriptures - bringing in deceit and deception only INVALIDATES you as a truth speaker!!

You clearly don't understand my response.

To say that 'good' can be used relatively, does not mean that it is always used relatively.

Matthew 19:17. 'And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God....'

Do you think Jesus was calling God 'relatively' good?!

 

[Redemptionsong]

Thank you for these pointless questions! Jesus died physically like any other tortured human being. In the specific case it was by Roman way of humiliating a Jewish person by hanging him ‘From a Tree’ (a Cross). The specific manner of his death was by means of asphyxiation on that cross - the fate suffered by many people who are claimed to have conspired against Rome (of course we know that Jesus was in fact absolutely innocent).

Death in humanity means the separation of the spirit out of the body in which that spirit was housed.

The spirit in the body enlivens that body to act in the physical world according to the laws of physics in the world.

The spirit ‘sees’ through the physical mechanism of the eye of the body. It feels the elements of the world through the skin and flesh and bone of the body. It tastes through tongue and mouth of the body, it smells thd world’s odours through the nose of the body. In a robotic computer system the software is equivalent to the spirit - it receives input from sensors on or in the physical body of the robot.

And, like the robot, the Spirit actuates in output the attached moveable appendages of the body it is in.

A present robotic system does not have a great ‘sense’ of self-maintenance (it is getting there!) therefore it needs (like a baby) to be nurtured, maintained, fed, by an external source. But God has pre-dated such basic systems and made man a self-sustaining entity by way of the spirit seeking out sustenance, finding sources of nourishment to feed itself - even growing sources of sustenance. And should there be any ‘wounding’ of the body, the spirit seeks ways to restore, mend, heal the wound. A robot does not yet have that ability.

So, unless the spirit maintains the body, the body will decay back to rust.

—————————————

And so, at death, Jesus’ spirit left the body and was ‘received by God’ (rested with Him who creates and give the spirits). The body of Jesus, now in-enlivened, ‘Dead’ in human terms, was laid in a tomb, and made subject to decay - which takes several days to start decaying proper!

This is the process for all bodies in the created world (Angels are created beings but since they are spirit only there is no body to decay - hence they are not subject to DEATH as envisioned by humanity. The scriptures describes the equivalent for angels as being ‘Chained / Imprisoned in darkness awaiting DESTRUCTION’.

But, are you going to ask ‘What did Jesus do while he was dead?’

Ah, so much nonsense is spoken by Trinitarians who cannot believe that their ‘Lord and God’ was indeed DEAD (according to human terms). You are going to say that Jesus, while his body was dead in the grave, went in living spirit back to those in the days of Noah to give them the chance of salvation?

Don’t bother - …. Or do bother…. Here it is:

• “For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.” (1 Peter 3:18)
• “After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—” (1 Peter 3:19)
• “to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,” (1 Peter 3:20)
• “and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,” (1 Peter 3:21)
• “who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.” (1 Peter 3:22)

See, it was AFTER Jesus was resurrected (vs.18/19)and was taken up to Heaven….!! After Jesus was raised from the dead he was made IMMORTAL (alive in the Spirit). Hence scriptures also says:

• “So it is written: “The first man, Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.” (1 Cor 15:45)

Jesus, the Last Adam, became a living Spirit (what does it mean to be an ‘Adam’?)

• “For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!” (Romans 5:17)
• “For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.” (Romans 5:19)
• “We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life” (Romans 6: 4)

What you appear to be saying here is that a man is not a body-soul-spirit. You believe a man is an enlivened body, or body-spirit. Am l correct?