The Lords Prayer - ‘Thine is the Kingdom…’

[Wildswanderer]

You said "The law was types and shadows, Jesus was and is, the reality."

..so what is sin, then?
What is there to be forgiven for?

Sin is still what it always was, missing the mark.
The difference is in how God has decided to interact with people who sin. That's all of us. No one is automatically forgiven. We have to come to God in faith and accept the offer of his Son in our place.

 

[Wildswanderer]

That’s an erroneous response. An erroneous verse is erroneous - God’s word to mankind is not erroneous.

It is mankind such as yourself who create error, distort the verses, deny the truth, and mislead those seeking the truth of God’s word.

Then you defend those errors by claiming that anyone who discovers these errors are in error!!!

You didn't discover diddly. You just decided a verse was wrong because you didn't like it's implications.

 

[Wildswanderer]

And it is blasphemy. What Thomas is CLAIMED to have said is blasphemous.

But I point to the OTHER TEN DISCIPLES who did not react to Jesus like Thomas did. There is a simple reason for that: Jesus WAS NOT GOD!

Even Jesus HIMSELF said to Thomas:

• ‘Touch me; see that I am not a spirit, for a spirit does not have flesh and bone as I do!!’

Jesus says to Thomas that he is human. He’s the same Jesus he sat next to and drank and walked and talked with many times (albeit in a now immortal slams glorified body)

And also, WOW!! Can you imagine (obviously not!!) that ELEVEN and 40,000 human beings have SEEN GOD and yet most of them just went away doing their daily work shortly thereafter in a non-believing state?

Really, PETER and ANDREW SAW ALMIGHTY GOD and just went back to fishing for food.

And testament to the fallacy: Where is the book of Thomas’? Isn’t it discredited in every way? A work of fiction by someone trying to claim a glory by publishing with the claim that it was from Thomas?

Oh boy! Oh ye of little minds so easily misled by desperate Trinitarians under the guidance of Satan!

Of course he was human, but can you walk through doors? He was much more than human. Jesus didn't tell Thomas to repent of his blasphemy, he said Thomas was a believer now!

29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

A believer in what? The truth, that Jesus was God incarnate.
Yes I can imagine people seeing God and going back to normal life. We all do it.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Sin is still what it always was, missing the mark

Yes .. and that needs some kind of law, to decide whether you are "missing the mark" or not.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Yes .. and that needs some kind of law, to decide whether you are "missing the mark" or not.

The ten commandments cover that. But again, our sins are covered if we are in Christ. I don't become unsaved because I commit a sin.

 

[Soapy]

You clearly don't understand my response.

To say that 'good' can be used relatively, does not mean that it is always used relatively.

Matthew 19:17. 'And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God....'

Do you think Jesus was calling God 'relatively' good?!

‘There is none good but God!’

That’s what I said. If God is the only absolute Good then all else is relatively good.

Did God do anything that was not good?

Did Jesus do anything that was not good?

Here are a few things:

1. At 12 years old Jesus went with his mother and adopted Father to comply with the census. On the way back he slipped away without authority from his parents to go sit and talk with the elders and scribes in the temple/synagogue. Was he right to do that without telling his anxious parents?
2. In mark 8:23 Jesus takes two attempts to heal a man of blindness. Would God have had to try twice?
3. Jesus was very angry at the money exchangers in the temple - so angry, in fact, that he trashed their tables, spilt their money, and thrashed them out with a whip. And while that may be called ‘Righteous Anger’, it is still a case of Taking God’s problem into your own hands WITHOUT AUTHORITY’!! There is at least one other religious belief that has claimed ‘Righteous Anger’ at the heart of its belief. It’s proponents advocate ‘Jihad’ against anyone whom they believe has wronged their God!!
4. In the garden on the night before he was to die, Jesus ‘doubted’ for a moment, asking the Father: ‘If there could be another way!’. Yes, he recovered himself saying, ‘But not my Will but your Will be done!’.

No.4 straightway shows that Jesus has his own Will which, for a moment was different to that of God. If ‘God’ can be different to ‘God’ then that in itself IS NOT GOOD!

So, nil point to you again - Over to you for more of your nonsense responses!!

 

[Wildswanderer]

• 12 years old Jesus went with his mother and adopted Father to comply with the census. On the way back he slipped away without authority from his parents to go sit and talk with the elders and scribes in the temple/synagogue. Was he right to do that without telling his anxious parents?

• In mark 8:23 Jesus takes two attempts to heal a man of blindness. Would God have had to try twice?

• Jesus was very angry at the money exchangers in the temple - so angry, in fact, that he trashed their tables, spilt their money, and thrashed them out with a whip. And while that may be called ‘Righteous Anger’, it is still a case of Taking God’s problem into your own hands WITHOUT AUTHORITY’!! There is at least one other religious belief that has claimed ‘Righteous Anger’ at the heart of its belief. It’s proponents advocate ‘Jihad’ against anyone whom they believe has wronged their God!!

• In the garden on the night before he was to die, Jesus ‘doubted’ for a moment, asking the Father: ‘If there could be another way!’. Yes, he recovered himself saying, ‘But not my Will but your Will be done!’.

None of those were evil acts.

 

[Soapy]

What you appear to be saying here is that a man is not a body-soul-spirit. You believe a man is an enlivened body, or body-spirit. Am l correct?

All created beings on earth are spirit enlivened bodies.

A body is chemical element of the earth (expressed in the saying: ‘Ashes to ashes’ after death)

The body is enlivens by the spirit that is put into it at conception. The egg in a woman’s body is inert, unlivened, dormant…. Until the LIVING SPERM enters it.

The Bible describes the creation of the first man, Adam, as his body being made from ‘Dust of the earth’. In fact, the very male, ‘Adam’, means ‘RED EARTH’, relating to the soil that was likely the colour found in the suggested area where it took place.

The description states that the body was ENLIVENED when God put a spirit into it:

• ‘AND THE MAN BECAME A LIVING SOUL!’

The word, ‘Soul’ is simply a biblical way of saying ‘Person’. Adam became a living person. You can perfectly replace the word ‘Soul’ in every place it occurs in scriptures with the ‘modern’ word ‘Person’.

 

[Soapy]

None of those were evil acts.

I didn’t say they were evil.

 

[Soapy]

You didn't discover diddly. You just decided a verse was wrong because you didn't like it's implications.

Aaahhh…. I feel your tears… it shows up in your writing!!!

 

[Redemptionsong]

‘There is none good but God!’

That’s what I said. If God is the only absolute Good then all else is relatively good.

Did God do anything that was not good?

Did Jesus do anything that was not good?

Here are a few things:

1. At 12 years old Jesus went with his mother and adopted Father to comply with the census. On the way back he slipped away without authority from his parents to go sit and talk with the elders and scribes in the temple/synagogue. Was he right to do that without telling his anxious parents?
2. In mark 8:23 Jesus takes two attempts to heal a man of blindness. Would God have had to try twice?
3. Jesus was very angry at the money exchangers in the temple - so angry, in fact, that he trashed their tables, spilt their money, and thrashed them out with a whip. And while that may be called ‘Righteous Anger’, it is still a case of Taking God’s problem into your own hands WITHOUT AUTHORITY’!! There is at least one other religious belief that has claimed ‘Righteous Anger’ at the heart of its belief. It’s proponents advocate ‘Jihad’ against anyone whom they believe has wronged their God!!
4. In the garden on the night before he was to die, Jesus ‘doubted’ for a moment, asking the Father: ‘If there could be another way!’. Yes, he recovered himself saying, ‘But not my Will but your Will be done!’.

No.4 straightway shows that Jesus has his own Will which, for a moment was different to that of God. If ‘God’ can be different to ‘God’ then that in itself IS NOT GOOD!

So, nil point to you again - Over to you for more of your nonsense responses!!

So we agree that God is absolute truth and goodness, but we disagree about Jesus!

You believe Jesus was a little bit of a sinner. He was a sinner, in your eyes, because he questioned his heavenly Father, rather than submit himself to the torture of crucifixion without a murmur.

So, Jesus is a sinner, like other men. Why, if that's the case, does God raise Jesus to life? Surely, God, who is perfectly holy, requires his people to be holy and righteous?

How can a sinful man be our Saviour?

 

[Soapy]

Of course he was human, but can you walk through doors? He was much more than human. Jesus didn't tell Thomas to repent of his blasphemy, he said Thomas was a believer now!

Of course he was human!!! Wow, how long did it take you to learn that????

Jesus didn’t tell Thomas to repent because Thomas didn’t call Jesus GOD!!! Thomas thought he was a SPIRIT (that is, an Angel, whether Holy or Demon).
All the disciples, like all Jews, knows that to see God means instant death: ‘No man may see God and live!’.

And the other ten disciples?? They told Thomas they had seen ‘The Lord’. They rightly did not tell Thomas that they had seen ALMIGHTY GOD!!

29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Those who are blessed are those who HAVE NOT SEEN BUT YET BELIEVE. Thomas had to SEE AND TOUCH the flesh and bone, and PUT HIS FINGER in the wound of jesus, the man, BEFORE HE BELIEVED…. That certainly is not the actions of a BLESSED PERSON!

Are you saying that God was wounded by a spear jab to his side and God bled out his blood.

That human men, Romans soldiers, nailed God to a cross?

That God died by asphyxiation and was entombed for three days (and the world just went on spinning and people just carried on with their lives, regardless!?!

That God rose from the dead and gave himself an immortal body?

And God raised himself up to heaven and sat himself next to himself?

Hmmm……!!!!

A believer in what? The truth, that Jesus was God incarnate.
Yes I can imagine people seeing God and going back to normal life. We all do it.

Except that it has never happened… Your imagination is bordering on pagan rhetoric…. No, not bordering - IS PAGAN!

 

[Wildswanderer]

Aaahhh…. I feel your tears… it shows up in your writing!!!

Yes, I'm very sad that your rejected the one who could save your soul.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Of course he was human!!! Wow, how long did it take you to learn that????

That's basic orthodoxy. Christ was fully human and fully God.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Are you saying that God was wounded by a spear jab to his side and God bled out his blood.

That human men, Romans soldiers, nailed God to a cross?

That God died by asphyxiation and was entombed for three days (and the world just went on spinning and people just carried on with their lives, regardless!?!

That God rose from the dead and gave himself an immortal body?

And God raised himself up to heaven and sat himself next to himself?

Of course. This is all basic Christianity.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Except that it has never happened… Your imagination is bordering on pagan rhetoric…. No, not bordering - IS PAGAN!

God with us has certainly happened...and still happens.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The ten commandments cover that..

More or less, yes.
..but we might need a little more detail to help us realise what "wishing for others what you wish for yourself" means in practice.

But again, our sins are covered if we are in Christ. I don't become unsaved because I commit a sin.

No, you don't become "unsaved" by comitting a sin ..

..but it is contradictory to one moment say "Nobody said anything about automatically" [having your sins forgiven],
..and..
"our sins are covered if we are in Christ".
Are you saying that you can no longer sin, if you are "in Christ" ?

 

[Wildswanderer]

Are you saying that you can no longer sin, if you are "in Christ" ?

I don't sin, as Paul says .. it's sin living in me.

"Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me."

"Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin."

 

[muhammad_isa]

"Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

That's it .. blame it on the devil .. we all do.
The only problem is, that in a court of law, that excuse is not acceptable.

..but you think in a court where God is the judge [i.e. the day of judgement], it is???

 

[Wildswanderer]

That's it .. blame it on the devil .. we all do.
The only problem is, that in a court of law, that excuse is not acceptable.

..but you think in a court where God is the judge [i.e. the day of judgement], it is???

In that day, the question will be whether we accepted Christ or not. His sacrifice for us is the only acceptable payment for our sin.