The Luciferianism DIR Overview

[1137]

Well, strictly by what people list there are two, I know I add a third despite it not being listed, and then yours would be a fourth by what you claim. Not sure about the other three; one I doubt, one I'm not sure, and the other I don't know (not even sure who that would be). Nine different posters, two are mods, two list Set, two list Lucifer, one mentions various backgrounds including Hinduism, another I really doubt, and then there is me.

Yeah but I didn't vote, and I'd hope people who don't straight define themselves as Luciferian wouldn't vote either.

 

[1137]

Then maybe this Group should simply be for those on a LHP? Then everyone can freely discuss / debate from their angle.

But that's already what the LHP DIR is for. Though now that I think of it, I only really post in the sub DIRs because they are there. I don't really think the posts in any of these 4 sub sections need to be limited to one group to be honest.

 

[1137]

Today the Poll ends and 75% of you would like to revise / replace the Overview. I would like to have the Overview simply read as the following:


Fundamental Luciferianism
Luciferianism is a modern term for the magico-spiritual attainment of inner power through applicable knowledge of one's individual self.
A Luciferian rejects all accepted truths and instead arrives at their conclusions through personal exploration.
The balance of Light and Darkness, the Objective and the Subjective are of equal importance to the Luciferian.

__________________________________________________
*This analysis was determined through extracting the basic ideologies from all of the Luciferian schools of thought, their specific tenets omitted allowing a fundamental and unifying basis for Luciferianism.

My only issue with this would be rejecting all truth and finding it yourself. For me Luciferianism is very much about knowledge, and things like science give us knowledge. Never in a million years could we personally verify all knowledge ourselves. It opens the door too far for anyone who comes to any sort of nonsense and push the nonsense as true, with nothing to stop them. Creationists and flat earthers, for example, reject known truths and come to their own.

 

[EtuMalku]

My only issue with this would be rejecting all truth and finding it yourself. For me Luciferianism is very much about knowledge, and things like science give us knowledge. Never in a million years could we personally verify all knowledge ourselves. It opens the door too far for anyone who comes to any sort of nonsense and push the nonsense as true, with nothing to stop them. Creationists and flat earthers, for example, reject known truths and come to their own.

Good point, it needs to be reworded

 

[crossfire]

Good point, it needs to be reworded

Perhaps from this:

"A Luciferian rejects all accepted truths and instead arrives at their conclusions through personal exploration."​

To this:

A Luciferian does not blindly accept commonly held "truths" (nomos,) but questions and investigates everything and arrives at their own conclusions through this personal exploration.​

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The way I see it, we all know so little about each other that any attempt at recognizing or distinguishing who among us "is indeed Luciferian" seems somewhat ridiculous and futile.

Not really. At the risk of invoking a "no true Scotsman," you either follow the Light Bearer and empower yourself through seeking knowledge and embracing things others say you shouldn't, or you don't. Luciferians follow Lucifer, Satanists follow Satan, and Setians follow Set, with each closely resembling the other but yet having distinct differences. There is no god worship as it would make it pointless that Satan (or Lucifer depending which version) rebelled to free us from Yahweh's tyranny, there is no following Yahweh as he demands total obedience and submissiveness and adherence to rigid dogma (someone of the Left would tell him to **** off in Abraham's position of being told to murder their child), and there is one of the core tenants of the Left, which is "my will be done," not "thy will be done."

To this:
A Luciferian does not blindly accept commonly held "truths" (nomos,) but questions and investigates everything and arrives at their own conclusions through this personal exploration.

That works better than a statement of "rejects all accepted truths" as it's only foolish to reject the theory of gravity and pretend you can jump off building and walk away unscathed.

 

[crossfire]

Yeah but I didn't vote, and I'd hope people who don't straight define themselves as Luciferian wouldn't vote either.

Eye Voted!

 

[crossfire]

Yeah but I didn't vote, and I'd hope people who don't straight define themselves as Luciferian wouldn't vote either.

Funny thing about this--Satanists and other occultists I chat with often recognize me as Luciferian without my even having to say so. Heck, Lucifierians have recognized me as Luciferian before I even recognized myself as Luciferian!

 

[Adramelek]

Today the Poll ends and 75% of you would like to revise / replace the Overview. I would like to have the Overview simply read as the following:


Fundamental Luciferianism
Luciferianism is a modern term for the magico-spiritual attainment of inner power through applicable knowledge of one's individual self.
A Luciferian rejects all accepted truths and instead arrives at their conclusions through personal exploration.
The balance of Light and Darkness, the Objective and the Subjective are of equal importance to the Luciferian.

__________________________________________________
*This analysis was determined through extracting the basic ideologies from all of the Luciferian schools of thought, their specific tenets omitted allowing a fundamental and unifying basis for Luciferianism.

Luciferianism is an aspect of my path, I like the above overview of this sub-DIR by Etu Malku, who actually uses Luciferian in his title. If there are other Luciferians here who have a better defining overview of this DIR then present it. Else, I think we all should take a vote on Etu's definition as being the official Luciferianism DIR statement.

 

[1137]

Luciferianism is an aspect of my path, I like the above overview of this sub-DIR by Etu Malku, who actually uses Luciferian in his title. If there are other Luciferians here who have a better defining overview of this DIR then present it. Else, I think we all should take a vote on Etu's definition as being the official Luciferianism DIR statement.

He/we still need to address the issue of rejecting all knowledge for self gained knowledge. Probably just a matter of rewording.

 

[Adramelek]

He/we still need to address the issue of rejecting all knowledge for self gained knowledge. Probably just a matter of rewording.

Perhaps it could be reworded as -- "A Luciferian rejects all accepted subjective "truths" and instead arrives at their own conclusions through scientific and personal metaphysical explorations."

 

[EtuMalku]

Update:

• Luciferianism is a modern term for the magico-spiritual attainment of inner power through applicable knowledge of one's individual self.
• A Luciferian does not blindly accept commonly held truths, but questions and investigates everything and arrives at their own conclusions through this personal exploration.
  
• The balance of Light and Darkness, the Objective and the Subjective are of equal importance to the Luciferian.

 

[Aštra’el]

Not really. At the risk of invoking a "no true Scotsman," you either follow the Light Bearer and empower yourself through seeking knowledge and embracing things others say you shouldn't, or you don't.

I worship Lucifer, and that worship has a tremendous impact on my entire spiritual-religious system. But "follow"? I follow my own True Will and desires.

Luciferians follow Lucifer, Satanists follow Satan, and Setians follow Set, with each closely resembling the other but yet having distinct differences.

There is that word again. "Follow".

There is no god worship as it would make it pointless that Satan (or Lucifer depending which version) rebelled to free us from Yahweh's tyranny

I don't think the word "worship" means what you think it means. Your perspective of YHWH and Satan also seems to be so incredibly influenced by Christian culture and collective Christian Weltanschauung. I suggest you ponder the older perspective of Judaism, where the Satan (in this case, "Samael") never rebelled at all, and remains a loyal angel of God. See where your thoughts take you. Actually, I find that Jewish teachers tend to be incredibly insightful and wise, and overall just more badäss and OG in their interpretations of scripture and YHWH than their Christian counterparts.

There is no following Yahweh as he demands total obedience and submissiveness and adherence to rigid dogma

To worship a god or a supreme god does not mean "to adhere to a rigid dogma". To worship a god or a supreme god does not require one to submit to and obey the religious authority who seek to act on this being's behalf, or to perceive a god in the same manner they do.

"To worship" does not mean "to follow".

To worship YHWH does not require one to adhere to some form of Judaism, Christianity, or Islam. It does not require allowing others to do the thinking for you, or the interpreting of various holy books. It does not require one to avoid embracing a path that could accurately be described as "Luciferian".

(someone of the Left would tell him to **** off in Abraham's position of being told to murder their child)

I happen to find it completely understandable that a person would be willing to sacrifice someone close to him to prove his loyalty to a god and strengthen the connection between himself and that god.

and there is one of the core tenants of the Left, which is "my will be done," not "thy will be done."

I did say that I follow my own True Will and desires.

What happens when "my Will" happens to also be "Thy Will" (as in, "the Will of God(s)")? What then? You speak as though you believe they must contradict each other. One might feel that YHWH (or Lucifer, or some other deity) encourages (or at least motivates and inspires) one to forge their own destiny by following their own True Will and absorbing the strength, power, wisdom and beauty from any religion they wish... or even behave and believe in a manner that might accurately be described as "Luciferian" and LHP.

I worship YHWH, yes. Perhaps this is why you "doubt" my being "Luciferian". I do not worship YHWH exclusively. I worship Lilith, Satan, Lucifer, Ishtar/ Ashtoreth, Mikhael, Tiamat, and others. It's heresy in the eyes of some but so what.

By worshipping YHWH, I am worshipping Destruction. Creation. Order over Chaos. By worshipping Tiamat I worship Chaos, the primordial waters, the Imagination, the Subconscious, the Universe. By worshipping Ashtoreth I worship War and Passion. By worshipping Lucifer... I am worshipping Wisdom, Enlightenment, and Power, and embracing a balance between opposing sides of my own human Nature and collective human Nature. By worshipping Lucifer and exalting the Lucifer archetype, I embrace a powerful harmony between Night and Day, Sun and Moon, Light and Dark, Chaos and Order, Creation and Destruction, Objective and Subjective, "Good" and "Evil", Celestial and Infernal, etc.. This is what I mean by the phrases "Moon by Day, Sun by Night", and "Diabolica Angelus".

 

[1137]

Update:

• Luciferianism is a modern term for the magico-spiritual attainment of inner power through applicable knowledge of one's individual self.
• A Luciferian does not blindly accept commonly held truths, but questions and investigates everything and arrives at their own conclusions through this personal exploration.
  
• The balance of Light and Darkness, the Objective and the Subjective are of equal importance to the Luciferian.

I like this.

 

[Kapalika]

The fact that everyone is disagreeing just proves my point that any definition should be all inclusive of all self identifying Luciferians.

TMay I ask what 'System' this is?

The Left Hand Path.

Left Hand or Western Left Hand Path? What Promethæn and 'selfless qualities' ?

The Left Hand Path is the Left Hand Path is the Left Hand Path. Call it whatever you will, technically I would fit in either definition you would give.

Promtheus gave the fire of the gods to mankind, and Lucifer gave the forbidden knowledge. It was to free mankind in both instances. To follow these deities either literally or figuratively should mean to want to further that liberation and enlightenment for all of mankind, not just for one's self. To be selfish in this respect would be to miss the point of the myths.

Gnostic Luciferianism is a 'form' of Luciferianism, to avoid being pigeon-holed I purposely avoided any Gnostic principles in the Overview Statement, as I did with the various other forms of Luciferianism.

Well I felt it went a little bit too much in the other direction is all. I'm not gnostic either.

We are not concerned about Satanism here.

I didn't say we were, but you seemed to have missed my greater point in contrasting Luciferianism from other paths.

Knowledge and Awareness about what? Just in general? The quote is; "magico-spiritual attainment of inner power" which does not assume 'power' to mean anything mundane and objective. In some Luciferian Orders becoming a Sovereign is sought after, again this was not included as it specified a particular Luciferianism.

I agree (since I helped write much of it) but in the end it fails to concretely determine what Luciferianism is.

The thing is, I don't think we really need to define what it is in any concrete way. That's up to whoever walks the path to decide for themselves.

I disagree, the Wiki article does not portray the essence of Luciferianism, much less portrays the various forms of Luciferianism outside of a few that are mentioned.

I'm not really sure if we can objectively decide what the "essence of Luciferianism" is since it's so subjective and interpretations vary between individuals.

one mentions various backgrounds including Hinduism, another I really doubt,

I'm not sure if you are saying you doubt me or are mentioning me in addition to someone else you doubt, but for the record I've been practicing and identifying as a Luciferian for about six years now which is a decent bit longer than I've identified as Shaivite. I always saw this as distinct from Satanism which I also mentioned. The great thing about the Left Hand Path is you need not box yourself into one perspective or dogma; I can augment them. It's like the old metaphor of the blind men feeling different parts of the elephant....

 

[Kapalika]

Luciferianism is, concisely, this:

A path self identifying as Luciferian and venerating the attributes affixed to Lucifer, or the veneration of Lucifer himself. It may or may not include rites, dogma, tradition or specific theology.


That's it, nothing more, nothing less. We can't say much else about it without going into specific views. Sure, we can make some general statements, but generalities are called such for a reason; they don't cover everything. So maybe anymore specific than that could just be said to be "generally".

 

[EtuMalku]

The fact that everyone is disagreeing just proves my point that any definition should be all inclusive of all self identifying Luciferians.

You're the only one in disagreement here.

Promtheus gave the fire of the gods to mankind, and Lucifer gave the forbidden knowledge. It was to free mankind in both instances. To follow these deities either literally or figuratively should mean to want to further that liberation and enlightenment for all of mankind, not just for one's self. To be selfish in this respect would be to miss the point of the myths.

Fire = Knowledge . . . but nowhere does Lucifer give us 'forbidden knowledge'. We are not Promethæns.

Knowledge and Awareness about what? Just in general?

There's nothing mentioned about 'awareness', 'knowledge' of one's individual self.

• Luciferianism is a modern term for the magico-spiritual attainment of inner power through applicable knowledge of one's individual self.

The thing is, I don't think we really need to define what it is in any concrete way. That's up to whoever walks the path to decide for themselves.

So your Luciferianism can mean anything to anyone?

I'm not really sure if we can objectively decide what the "essence of Luciferianism" is since it's so subjective and interpretations vary between individuals.

I believe we can and in fact we are.

 

[EtuMalku]

Luciferianism is, concisely, this:

A path self identifying as Luciferian and venerating the attributes affixed to Lucifer, or the veneration of Lucifer himself. It may or may not include rites, dogma, tradition or specific theology.


That's it, nothing more, nothing less. We can't say much else about it without going into specific views. Sure, we can make some general statements, but generalities are called such for a reason; they don't cover everything. So maybe anymore specific than that could just be said to be "generally".

What attributes? Affixed by whom?

Self identification is how your see yourself or identifying yourself with someone or something else.
Isn't this a given in any belief system / philosophy?

 

[crossfire]

Luciferianism is, concisely, this:

A path self identifying as Luciferian and venerating the attributes affixed to Lucifer, or the veneration of Lucifer himself. It may or may not include rites, dogma, tradition or specific theology.


That's it, nothing more, nothing less. We can't say much else about it without going into specific views. Sure, we can make some general statements, but generalities are called such for a reason; they don't cover everything. So maybe anymore specific than that could just be said to be "generally".

I don't venerate. (Or at least, I try not to. It kinda goes against the grain of liberating yourself from that.)

 

[crossfire]

Luciferianism is, concisely, this:

A path self identifying as Luciferian and venerating the attributes affixed to Lucifer, or the veneration of Lucifer himself. It may or may not include rites, dogma, tradition or specific theology.


That's it, nothing more, nothing less. We can't say much else about it without going into specific views. Sure, we can make some general statements, but generalities are called such for a reason; they don't cover everything. So maybe anymore specific than that could just be said to be "generally".

The part highlighted in magenta above is in direct opposition to that which is highlighted in green below:

Update:

• Luciferianism is a modern term for the magico-spiritual attainment of inner power through applicable knowledge of one's individual self.
• A Luciferian does not blindly accept commonly held truths, but questions and investigates everything and arrives at their own conclusions through this personal exploration.
  
• The balance of Light and Darkness, the Objective and the Subjective are of equal importance to the Luciferian.

Does anyone have a way to reconcile these? Would it be productive to do so? Is this not the difference between the western right hand path and the western left hand path?