The Luciferianism DIR Overview

[EtuMalku]

I still suggest we add a point 4 (feel free to edit it as needed):

"A Lucifierian can be atheist, theist, follow the gnostic roots or have any other philosophical persuasion and even hold a variety of other values pertaining to their path since Luciferianism is a path of the individual and not of any one theology as many Luciferians abstain from theology and dogma.

I'm thinking on this . . .

 

[crossfire]

Howso? You can be a theist and believe in freewill and the capacity for the knowledge of good and evil (conscience and/or superego.)

humans should not need deities or fear of eternal punishment to distinguish right from wrong and to do good.

Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly . . .

Well, you did say that you helped to write the article...

<...>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luciferianism

Actually wikipedia is a pretty good starting point since in that it covers both theistic and symbolic forms, as well as a historic form, and talks about real world luciferian organizations too.

>>>If we could take the article and summarize what it says that might be a good overview since it will include the full spectrum of views while also being short and sweet. And since it covers all the different views, we won't have this situation again where people want to rewrite it, since every person's possible view will be represented.

<...>

I agree (since I helped write much of it) but in the end it fails to concretely determine what Luciferianism is.
<...>

So...do you not understand the part of the article I quoted, or do you not understand my claim that you can be a theist and still believe in free will and having the knowledge of good and evil (conscience/superego?) I'm sure I can easily find a number of theistic Christians who believe in free will and conscience to demonstrate/illustrate my point.

 

[Aštra’el]

humans should not need deities or fear of eternal punishment to distinguish right from wrong and to do good.

This would serve as a safeguard for the individuation of the superego/conscience into the individual's personality, rather than seeking the repression and/or destruction of it. (Thereby distinguishing Luciferianism from the path of the psychopath.)

Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly . . .

On one hand, it does seem like Crossfire is inclined to exclude from her definition of Luciferianism those who incorporate a pantheon of deities into their spiritual-religious system. On the other hand, it seems like something Richard Dawkins would say, where one does not need the concept of deities to distinguish between "right" and "wrong" and "good" or "evil". Though, I personally find those words to be be far too subjective and reductive to really have any real meaning to me.

Still, I might understand the point that Crossfire is trying to make... I just think that this train of thought should probably be left out of the Luciferian overview.

_______________________________


I do feel that this is the best attempt at an "overview" thus far:

Spoiler

Fundamental

Luciferianism

• Luciferianism is a modern term for the magico-spiritual attainment of inner power through applicable knowledge of one's individual self.
• A Luciferian does not blindly accept commonly held truths, but questions and investigates everything and arrives at their own conclusions through this personal exploration.
• The harmony between Light and Darkness and between the Objective and the Subjective are of great importance to the Luciferian.

*This analysis was determined through extracting the basic ideologies from all of the Luciferian schools of thought, their specific tenets omitted allowing a

Spoiler

fundamental and

unifying basis for Luciferianism.

 

[crossfire]

On one hand, it does seem like Crossfire is inclined to exclude from her definition of Luciferianism those who incorporate a pantheon of deities into their spiritual-religious system. On the other hand, it seems like something Richard Dawkins would say, where one does not need the concept of deities to distinguish between "right" and "wrong" and "good" or "evil". Though, I personally find those words to be be far too subjective and reductive to really have any real meaning to me.

I don't have a problem with theism and/or deities. It is deities as the basis for morality/amorality that the article is rejecting. {However, I admit that I do go further and also question the "need" to worship, but that is not what the snippet from the article is all about.}

Still, I might understand the point that Crossfire is trying to make... I just think that this train of thought should probably be left out of the Luciferian overview.

It came from the wiki article on Luciferianism from the "General Beliefs" section, which is not specific to any one sect of Luciferianism. Since it was there, I thought it might be interesting to address it in order to discern whether it should be included or not.

 

[EtuMalku]

I don't have a problem with theism and/or deities. It is deities as the basis for morality/amorality that the article is rejecting. {However, I admit that I do go further and also question the "need" to worship, but that is not what the snippet from the article is all about.}



It came from the wiki article on Luciferianism from the "General Beliefs" section, which is not specific to any one sect of Luciferianism. Since it was there, I thought it might be interesting to address it in order to discern whether it should be included or not.

Lemme wrap my brain around this further . . . along with Mandi's ideas

 

[crossfire]

Well, here are the sections about core beliefs of Luciferianism and Theistic Lucifierianism from the wiki article. These should be included along with the "Fundamentals of Luciferianism" in the DIR description. This would serve as a safeguard to assure that the core beliefs of Luciferianism will not get gutted out and be protected by the DIR rules, as is customary on RF that all core beliefs of a religion are supposed to be protected within a DIR: to exclude these from the DIR description would be defeating the purpose of a DIR.

from the wiki article:

General beliefs
Sometimes mistakenly associated with Satanism due to the Christian interpretation of the fallen angel, Luciferianism is a wholly different belief system[27] and does not revere the devil figure or most characteristics typically affixed to Satan. Rather, Lucifer in this context is seen as one of many morning stars, a symbol of enlightenment,[28] independence and human progression, and is often used interchangeably with similar figures from a range of ancient beliefs, such as the Greek titan Prometheus or the Jewish talmudic figure Lilith.

They support the protection of the natural world. Both the arts and sciences are crucial to human development, and thus both are cherished. Luciferians think that humans should be focused on this life and how to make the most of it every single day. The ability to recognize both good and evil, to accept that all actions have consequences, both positive and negative, and to actively influence one's environment, is a key factor.

For Luciferians, enlightenment is the ultimate goal. The basic Luciferian principles highlight truth and freedom of will, worshipping the inner self and one’s ultimate potential. Traditional dogma is shunned as a basis for morality on the grounds that humans should not need deities or fear of eternal punishment to distinguish right from wrong and to do good. All ideas should be tested before being accepted, and even then one should remain skeptical because knowledge and understanding are fluid. Regardless of whether Lucifer is conceived of as a deity or as a mere archetype, he is a representation of ultimate knowledge and exploration: humanity’s savior and a champion for continuing personal growth.

Theistic Luciferianism
Some Luciferians believe in Lucifer as an actual deity, not to be worshipped as the Judeo-Christian God but to be revered and followed as a teacher and friend, as a rescuer or guiding spirit, or even the one true god as opposed to the traditional creator of Judaism.[29] Theistic Luciferians are followers of the Left-Hand Path and may adhere to different dogmata put forth by organizations such as the Neo-Luciferian Church or other congregations that are heavily focused on ceremonial magic, the occult and literal interpretations of spiritual stories and figures.​

 

[1137]

This collaboration makes me really happy. My notifications apparently broke so I'll have to read through this later.

 

[EtuMalku]

Well, here are the sections about core beliefs of Luciferianism and Theistic Lucifierianism from the wiki article. These should be included along with the "Fundamentals of Luciferianism" in the DIR description. This would serve as a safeguard to assure that the core beliefs of Luciferianism will not get gutted out and be protected by the DIR rules, as is customary on RF that all core beliefs of a religion are supposed to be protected within a DIR: to exclude these from the DIR description would be defeating the purpose of a DIR.

from the wiki article:

General beliefs
Sometimes mistakenly associated with Satanism due to the Christian interpretation of the fallen angel, Luciferianism is a wholly different belief system[27] and does not revere the devil figure or most characteristics typically affixed to Satan. Rather, Lucifer in this context is seen as one of many morning stars, a symbol of enlightenment,[28] independence and human progression, and is often used interchangeably with similar figures from a range of ancient beliefs, such as the Greek titan Prometheus or the Jewish talmudic figure Lilith.

They support the protection of the natural world. Both the arts and sciences are crucial to human development, and thus both are cherished. Luciferians think that humans should be focused on this life and how to make the most of it every single day. The ability to recognize both good and evil, to accept that all actions have consequences, both positive and negative, and to actively influence one's environment, is a key factor.

For Luciferians, enlightenment is the ultimate goal. The basic Luciferian principles highlight truth and freedom of will, worshipping the inner self and one’s ultimate potential. Traditional dogma is shunned as a basis for morality on the grounds that humans should not need deities or fear of eternal punishment to distinguish right from wrong and to do good. All ideas should be tested before being accepted, and even then one should remain skeptical because knowledge and understanding are fluid. Regardless of whether Lucifer is conceived of as a deity or as a mere archetype, he is a representation of ultimate knowledge and exploration: humanity’s savior and a champion for continuing personal growth.

Theistic Luciferianism
Some Luciferians believe in Lucifer as an actual deity, not to be worshipped as the Judeo-Christian God but to be revered and followed as a teacher and friend, as a rescuer or guiding spirit, or even the one true god as opposed to the traditional creator of Judaism.[29] Theistic Luciferians are followers of the Left-Hand Path and may adhere to different dogmata put forth by organizations such as the Neo-Luciferian Church or other congregations that are heavily focused on ceremonial magic, the occult and literal interpretations of spiritual stories and figures.​

But this is rife with mistakes . . . and does not portray Luciferianism properly.
Many Luciferian orders venerate the devil and Satan
Some follow Lucifer as a fallen angel
The Morning Star has never been a symbol of enlightenment, rather it has symbolized something that seeks to usurp something else higher in status, it fails and becomes cast aside / fallen.
The natural world to many Luciferians is seen as an illusion and something adversarial to our existence, its destruction is sought by many Luciferian orders.
Luciferians are not necessarily concerned with this life, but seek to evolve spiritually in order to make advancements after this physical life.
Many of us do not recognize good & evil, they are nothing but subjective experiences that have no absolute foundation.
Enlightenment is not the ultimate goal . . . knowledge of one's individual self is (I may be nit-picking here)
. . . onward and so forth, etc.

The Wiki article fails on many levels, but I am sure there a few acceptable tenets

 

[crossfire]

But this is rife with mistakes . . . and does not portray Luciferianism properly.
Many Luciferian orders venerate the devil and Satan

Venerate as is worship? Do you have any examples?

Some follow Lucifer as a fallen angel
The Morning Star has never been a symbol of enlightenment, rather it has symbolized something that seeks to usurp something else higher in status, it fails and becomes cast aside / fallen.

Actually, the Morning Star is associated with enlightenment in my religious background.

The natural world to many Luciferians is seen as an illusion and something adversarial to our existence, its destruction is sought by many Luciferian orders.
Luciferians are not necessarily concerned with this life, but seek to evolve spiritually in order to make advancements after this physical life.
Many of us do not recognize good & evil, they are nothing but subjective experiences that have no absolute foundation.

Subjective means the individual judges for themselves, no?

Enlightenment is not the ultimate goal . . . knowledge of one's individual self is (I may be nit-picking here)

Indeed. same difference, imo.

. . . onward and so forth, etc.

The Wiki article fails on many levels, but I am sure there a few acceptable tenets

Such as?

 

[EtuMalku]

Venerate as is worship? Do you have any examples?

Actually, the Morning Star is associated with enlightenment in my religious background.

Subjective means the individual judges for themselves, no?

Indeed. same difference, imo.

Such as?

I'm quite satisfied with my Fundamentals
You guys can decide what to add to it

 

[crossfire]

But this is rife with mistakes . . . and does not portray Luciferianism properly.
Many Luciferian orders venerate the devil and Satan
Some follow Lucifer as a fallen angel

Venerate as in worship? Do you have any examples?

I'm asking so that I will know where to direct Bhakti Theistic Satanists who want to become Luciferians. You can PM me your references if you don't want to post them publicly.

I've been under the impression that Luciferian was of the jnana yoga path (link,) the path of knowledge with an emphasis on freeing oneself from the Bhakti yoga path (link,) (the path of devotion.) I have noticed some Luciferians also rejecting the karma yoga path (link,) while others might embrace it is specific instances. Please correct me if I'm mistaken about this.

Thank you.

 

[EtuMalku]

I'm asking so that I will know where to direct Bhakti Theistic Satanists who want to become Luciferians. You can PM me your references if you don't want to post them publicly.

Bhakti Theistic Satanists? Where did this come from and what does it have to do with defining Luciferianism?

I've been under the impression that Luciferian was of the jnana yoga path (link,) the path of knowledge with an emphasis on freeing oneself from the Bhakti yoga path (link,) (the path of devotion.)

Jnana is knowledge which gives release from bondage.freedom from saṃsāra, the cycle of death and rebirth
If I understand correctly? I am certainly not an expert on Hindu terminology, but while I don't see this as anything in opposition to Luciferianism, I also don't see it as a Fundamental of Luciferianism.

I have noticed some Luciferians also rejecting the karma yoga path (link,) while others might embrace it is specific instances. Please correct me if I'm mistaken about this

Karma Yoga is primarily the practice of selfless service to humanity whereby a spiritual seeker attempts to give their actions selflessly without hoping for merit, fame or glory.
Again, I am not seeing the relationship with Fundamental Luciferianism;

1. The applicable knowledge of one's individual Self / Isolate Consciousness
   
2. Personal exploration / Subjective experience
3. Non Duality / Harmony

I'm not trying to be difficult nor am I unwilling to accept additions to the Fundamentals, so if I am not understanding any of this clearly please correct me.

 

[crossfire]

Bhakti Theistic Satanists? Where did this come from and what does it have to do with defining Luciferianism?

I'm simply asking where (which Luciferian orders) I should direct Theistic devotional worshipping Satanists to who want to become Luciferians (as per your claim that these Orders exist in this post

But this is rife with mistakes . . . and does not portray Luciferianism properly.
Many Luciferian orders venerate the devil and Satan <...>

Spoiler: to save space

Jnana is knowledge which gives release from bondage.freedom from saṃsāra, the cycle of death and rebirth
If I understand correctly? I am certainly not an expert on Hindu terminology, but while I don't see this as anything in opposition to Luciferianism, I also don't see it as a Fundamental of Luciferianism.

Karma Yoga is primarily the practice of selfless service to humanity whereby a spiritual seeker attempts to give their actions selflessly without hoping for merit, fame or glory.

Again, I am not seeing the relationship with Fundamental Luciferianism;

1. The applicable knowledge of one's individual Self / Isolate Consciousness
   
2. Personal exploration / Subjective experience
3. Non Duality / Harmony

[satire] Sorry, I thought this thread was about the Luciferian DIR Overview. [/satire]

If you want to dodge the question about the existence of the Theistic Satan-worshipping Luciferian orders, you will have to try harder than this at dodging. If they do indeed exist, I would love to know about them so I can direct the Theistic Satan worshipers who want to be Luciferians to those Orders.

If you don't understand the jnana path, the karma path, or the bhakti paths, then don't worry about answering that part of the question. I can ask elsewhere.

 

[EtuMalku]

I'm simply asking where (which Luciferian orders) I should direct Theistic devotional worshipping Satanists to who want to become Luciferians (as per your claim that these Orders exist in this post




[satire] Sorry, I thought this thread was about the Luciferian DIR Overview. [/satire]

If you want to dodge the question about the existence of the Theistic Satan-worshipping Luciferian orders, you will have to try harder than this at dodging. If they do indeed exist, I would love to know about them so I can direct the Theistic Satan worshipers who want to be Luciferians to those Orders.

You're kidding right?

• Neo-Luciferian Church
• Order of Phosphorus
• Temple of Black Light
• Order of the Morningstar

Those are off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more but I am not interested in theism so I have never investigated the orders associated

 

[EtuMalku]

. . . existence of the Theistic Satan-worshipping Luciferian orders.

Where did I say this? Satan worshiping Luciferians?

 

[crossfire]

You're kidding right?

• Neo-Luciferian Church
• Order of Phosphorus
• Temple of Black Light
• Order of the Morningstar

Those are off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more but I am not interested in theism so I have never investigated the orders associated

Thank you. I shall ask them.

 

[crossfire]

Where did I say this? Satan worshiping Luciferians?

Here:

But this is rife with mistakes . . . and does not portray Luciferianism properly.
Many Luciferian orders venerate the devil and Satan

I asked for clarification regarding this:

Venerate as in worship? Do you have any examples?

To which I have finally received some answers. Thank you.

 

[EtuMalku]

Here:

I asked for clarification regarding this:

To which I have finally received some answers. Thank you.

I meant that within theistic orders an adversarial deity is included in their veneration, but not exclusively

 

[crossfire]

I meant that within theistic orders an adversarial deity is included in their veneration, but not exclusively

Veneration as in worshiping? You might want to clarify this before I go ask them for myself.

 

[EtuMalku]

Veneration as in worshiping? You might want to clarify this before I go ask them for myself.

You might want to look up the difference yourself.