The Luciferianism DIR Overview

[crossfire]

Veneration as in worshiping? You might want to clarify this before I go ask them for myself.

You might want to look up the difference yourself.

"In Roman Catholic and Orthodox theology, veneration is a type of honor distinct from the adoration due to God alone. According to Deacon Dr. Mark Miravelle, of Franciscan University of Steubenville, the English word "worship" has been associated with both veneration and adoration:"
-source-​

 

[Aštra’el]

worship

wor·ship
ˈwərSHəp/
noun

1. 1.
   the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.
   "the worship of God"

verb

1. 1.
   show reverence and adoration for (a deity); honor with religious rites.
   "the Maya built jungle pyramids to worship their gods"

_______

worship

: reverence offered to a divine being or supernatural power; also: an act of expressing such reverence

________

Reverence

rev·er·ence
ˈrev(ə)rəns/
noun

1. 
   
   
   • 1.
     deep respect for someone or something.
     "rituals showed honor and reverence for the gods"
     
     "reverence for the desert"

verb

1. 
   
   
   • 1.
     regard or treat with deep respect.
     "the many divine beings reverenced by Mesopotamian tradition"

_______

Reverence

: honor or respect felt or shown

_______

Veneration

: respect or awe inspired by the dignity, wisdom, dedication, or talent of a person

: great respect or reverence

: the act of venerating

 

[EtuMalku]

So veneration is a part of worship but not necessarily the other way around. In any case, I assume some theistic groups worship and others venerate.

 

[crossfire]

So veneration is a part of worship but not necessarily the other way around. In any case, I assume some theistic groups worship and others venerate.

"In Roman Catholic and Orthodox theology, veneration is a type of honor distinct from the adoration due to God alone. According to Deacon Dr. Mark Miravelle, of Franciscan University of Steubenville, the English word "worship" has been associated with both veneration and adoration:"
-source-​

An earlier post from upthread:

Veneration implies a person, rather than concept, and is especially associated with ritual and/or custom. I neither venerate skepticism ritually, nor do I see skepticism as a person or an object to venerate.
from Merriam-Webster:

⦁ Full Definition of venerate
venerated
venerating
1. transitive verb
2. 1 : to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
3. 2 : to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion

Full Definition of deference

1. : respect and esteem due a superior or an elder; also : affected or ingratiating regard for another's wishes

Veneration is not a word that fits in with my Luciferian practice and skepticism at all. Relying on {related the word "religion"} or trusting in might be better choices of words to describe my skepticism, but veneration does not fit at all.

 

[crossfire]

So veneration is a part of worship but not necessarily the other way around. In any case, I assume some theistic groups worship and others venerate.

So now you admit you don't know.

Spoiler: inside joke

{You lourve your Lesser Black Magick so much that you can shoot flames from your farting orifice too, huh?}

I was soooooo looking forward to warning the Lady of TOPH to prepare for an influx of Theistic Satan worshippers! {Because that is where you told me to send them}
Do you still think this part of the wiki article is inaccurate?

Theistic Luciferianism
Some Luciferians believe in Lucifer as an actual deity, not to be worshipped as the Judeo-Christian God but to be revered and followed as a teacher and friend, as a rescuer or guiding spirit, or even the one true god as opposed to the traditional creator of Judaism.​

...because the writing style seems quite familiar to me...

Just an hunch, but if Lucifer is not to be worshiped, I also get the feeling that just might also apply to Satan.

 

[1137]

Oh snap, Mercurian fight!

 

[crossfire]

Oh snap, Mercurian fight!

LOL! This is a discussion, {albeit a multi-layered discussion,} not a fight.

 

[EtuMalku]

So now you admit you don't know.

Sure . . . I admit I don't know which of these groups would verify if they worship or venerate Satan, Lucifer, or any other deity.

I was soooooo looking forward to warning the Lady of TOPH to prepare for an influx of Theistic Satan worshippers! {Because that is where you told me to send them}

I doubt you would have any influence on Theistic Satanists joining TOPH

Do you still think this part of the wiki article is inaccurate?

Theistic Luciferianism
Some Luciferians believe in Lucifer as an actual deity, not to be worshipped as the Judeo-Christian God but to be revered and followed as a teacher and friend, as a rescuer or guiding spirit, or even the one true god as opposed to the traditional creator of Judaism.​

...because the writing style seems quite familiar to me...

I did not write that segment if that is what you are alluding to.
There are Luciferians that worship the Abrahamic idea of Lucifer as well as Luciferians that worship Satan as part of their Belief System (and vice versa).

**{You lourve your Lesser Black Magick so much that you can shoot flames from your farting orifice too, huh?}
Have you taken up drinking or something?

 

[EtuMalku]

Oh snap, Mercurian fight!

She's just feeling her new higher degree status oats . . . they all rebel against the master sooner or later

 

[crossfire]

Sure . . . I admit I don't know which of these groups would verify if they worship or venerate Satan, Lucifer, or any other deity.

Then perhaps you have other examples to cite which would support the claim you made here:

But this is rife with mistakes . . . and does not portray Luciferianism properly.
Many Luciferian orders venerate the devil and Satan
<...>

I doubt you would have any influence on Theistic Satanists joining TOPH

You are the one who provided the (unsubstantiated) list.

I did not write that segment if that is what you are alluding to.

I agree that is definitely not your writing style.

There are Luciferians that worship the Abrahamic idea of Lucifer as well as Luciferians that worship Satan as part of their Belief System (and vice versa).

Examples?

**{You lourve your Lesser Black Magick so much that you can shoot flames from your farting orifice too, huh?}
Have you taken up drinking or something?

No, but the obfuscations in this thread might have come close to prodding me to do so!

She's just feeling her new higher degree status oats . . . they all rebel against the master sooner or later

Since when has my degree status had anything to do with my rebelliousness and skepticism?

 

[EtuMalku]

Then perhaps you have other examples to cite which would support the claim you made here:
You are the one who provided the (unsubstantiated) list.

I don't know what you are going on and on about . . . the organizations I listed from what I recall, all either venerated or worshiped Lucifer as a deity, some of them do so with Satan or another Adversarial deity such as Ahriman. Theistic organizations tend to do this if you haven't noticed.

I agree that is definitely not your writing style.

What was the point in bringing this up then?

Examples?

I am not going to give you examples of individuals that I know who do this . . . are you telling me you don't know any of these people?

Since when has my degree status had anything to do with my rebelliousness and skepticism?

I'm teasing you . . .

 

[crossfire]

I don't know what you are going on and on about . . . the organizations I listed from what I recall, all either venerated or worshiped Lucifer as a deity, some of them do so with Satan or another Adversarial deity such as Ahriman. Theistic organizations tend to do this if you haven't noticed.

Sure . . . I admit I don't know which of these groups would verify if they worship or venerate Satan, Lucifer, or any other deity.

So which is it? The blue pill or the red pill?

What was the point in bringing this up then?

Because I thought the writing style resembled the writing style of the Lady of TOPH.

I am not going to give you examples of individuals that I know who do this . . . are you telling me you don't know any of these people?

That is indeed the case.

I'm teasing you . . .

Yes, I know.

 

[EtuMalku]

So which is it? The blue pill or the red pill?



Because I thought the writing style resembled the writing style of the Lady of TOPH.


That is indeed the case.


Yes, I know.

I suppose I can make one last attempt to clarify this . . . the organizations I listed off the top of my head are all Theistic Luciferian organizations, they either worship or venerate one or more deities, I am not clear as to which one's do what as I have never been a member of any of them and would only be guessing . . . however, they either worship or venerate as that is part of Theistic practice.

 

[crossfire]

I suppose I can make one last attempt to clarify this . . . the organizations I listed off the top of my head are all Theistic Luciferian organizations, they either worship or venerate one or more deities, I am not clear as to which one's do what as I have never been a member of any of them and would only be guessing . . . however, they either worship or venerate as that is part of Theistic practice.

I wouldn't say that it is necessary, especially if one's deity was opposed to veneration.

 

[crossfire]

I suppose I can make one last attempt to clarify this . . . the organizations I listed off the top of my head are all Theistic Luciferian organizations, they either worship or venerate one or more deities, I am not clear as to which one's do what as I have never been a member of any of them and would only be guessing . . . however, they either worship or venerate as that is part of Theistic practice.

I wouldn't say that it is necessary, especially if one's deity was opposed to veneration.

You might also notice that your assumption regarding worship or veneration as a necessary aspect of theistic practice is in direct opposition to what is posted in the wiki article under Theistic Luciferianism?

Theistic Luciferianism
Some Luciferians believe in Lucifer as an actual deity, not to be worshipped as the Judeo-Christian God but to be revered and followed as a teacher and friend, as a rescuer or guiding spirit, or even the one true god as opposed to the traditional creator of Judaism. Theistic Luciferians are followers of the Left-Hand Path and may adhere to different dogmata put forth by organizations such as the Neo-Luciferian Church or other congregations that are heavily focused on ceremonial magic, the occult and literal interpretations of spiritual stories and figures.​

So your assumptions trump what is being reported?

 

[Aštra’el]

@crossfire

Why are you venerating the Wikipedia article about Luciferianism

 

[crossfire]

@crossfire

Why are you venerating the Wikipedia article about Luciferianism

I'm not. The Wiki article has source links listed. As a skeptic, I put more faith in evidence than in speculation and assumption.

 

[EtuMalku]

I wouldn't say that it is necessary, especially if one's deity was opposed to veneration.

Are you suggesting these theistic groups don't understand their own deity as you do?

 

[EtuMalku]

You might also notice that your assumption regarding worship or veneration as a necessary aspect of theistic practice is in direct opposition to what is posted in the wiki article under Theistic Luciferianism?

Theistic Luciferianism
Some Luciferians believe in Lucifer as an actual deity, not to be worshipped as the Judeo-Christian God but to be revered and followed as a teacher and friend, as a rescuer or guiding spirit, or even the one true god as opposed to the traditional creator of Judaism. Theistic Luciferians are followers of the Left-Hand Path and may adhere to different dogmata put forth by organizations such as the Neo-Luciferian Church or other congregations that are heavily focused on ceremonial magic, the occult and literal interpretations of spiritual stories and figures.​

So your assumptions trump what is being reported?

Who cares what the Wiki article says . . . haven't I pointed out enough of what a mess it is?
Is any of this conducive to the OP?

 

[crossfire]

Who cares what the Wiki article says . . . haven't I pointed out enough of what a mess it is?
Is any of this conducive to the OP?

See post #86