The Mark of the Beast

[Ben Masada]

　

　
I agree. Even though we may have our spiritual lives saved, we will still need to look for some sort of punishment for those that do believe……….


So, saved from what? Would you elaborate?
　
What are you? A Sadducee?


That's also mature and intellectual.
　
Isa 26:19 Your dead will live, my corpses will rise; awake and sing, you who dwell in the dust; for your dew is like the morning dew, and the earth will bring the dead to life.

This has nothing to do with physical resurrection. This is a description of Jewish exile, when according to Isaiah 53:8.9 we are cut off from the Land of the Living, which is the Land of Israel, and a grave is assigned to us among the Gentiles. Then, according to Ezekiel 37:12, the Lord opens our graves and has us rise from them, and brings us back to the Land of Israel, which is the Land of the living. That's the resurrection we believe.
　
If we are going to believe and use other parts of this good brothers book, then we are to accept the whole of it. Verse 19 speaks directly of a resurrection.


No, it does not. Sorry, but you are being too literal. I thought you had said you understand analogy and metaphor. Verse 19 is explained in Ezekiel 37:12, as I showed above.


As well as other places through out the Tanach, which speak of the dead being made to live.

Just quote to me what you say is throughout the Tanach, speaking about dead being made to live again. You never know what I can say until you hear my saying it.
　
Isa 41:2 Who has raised up one from the east? Whom called him to his foot in righteousness? He hands over nations to him, and makes him rule over kings. He gives them like the dust to his sword, like the driven stubble to his bow.

And of course, you see Jesus here. I wonder why!
　
Then when you read the verses you offered 41:8-9 we have………
Isa 41:8 "But you, Yisra'el, my servant, Yacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend,
Isa 41:9 You whom I have taken hold of from the ends of the earth, and called from its corners, and said to you, 'You are my servant, I have chosen you and not cast you away;'

And of course, you can't see Israel, the People here. I wonder why Isaiah does.
　
Now back in verse 2 we see “One” spoken of and this “One” is raised from the “East”. Here in 8 and 9 we see that the people are “from the ends of the earth” and not just “One from the east”. We further read……….

One from the East is the servant Israel. Where did Abraham come from, not from the East? And where did Israel come from, not from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?
　　
What kind of a Moshiach Yisrael be? As you claim the title to be when using that all powerful christian stronghold of a word “messiah” as if it were the be all to end all to save the world. We see that even Yah Himself had to encourage them to be brave and not be afraid for He had His right hand, the One that was from the east that had been sitting at His right hand which He raised up, to defeat those that would do them harm.

I would need more than a post to explain to you what kind of Moshiach Yisrael is. But if you read my thread, "The Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53," you will have a pretty good idea.
　　
Yesha'yah 53 is a prophecy of Yahshua Ha Moshiach Ben Dawid.

And what do you have to substantiate your claim, writings of Gentiles 50+ years after Yeshua had been gone? Not much convincing. To claim that Isaiah 53 points to Jesus, you have only assumptions as if Jesus was the only Jew to be crucified by the Romans.
　





　

 

[Troublemane]

Clearly, anyone and everyone can be called "Antichrist" if it suits someone's agenda. So, why perpetuate it?

I mean it should be obvious its really Obama, anyways.

 

[Ben Sinai]

Clearly, anyone and everyone can be called "Antichrist" if it suits someone's agenda. So, why perpetuate it?

I mean it should be obvious its really Obama, anyways.

It's a learning experience for me. I use it to help me dig into truth to show light on how others twist and bend what is simply being said. I leave out all of mans puffed up notions of himself with his thoughts, feelings and traditions and just simply read what the word of Yah has to say. Some call it iron sharpening iron. This forum has proved to be a great sharpening stone to hone the dull blade of skillful debate and defense of truth. One can try out just about any scenario here and then when an occurrence happens out on the street you have a base line in which to draw from. I call it warding off evil spirits.

 

[Ben Masada]

Clearly, anyone and everyone can be called "Antichrist" if it suits someone's agenda. So, why perpetuate it?

I mean it should be obvious its really Obama, anyways.

I am about to start believing you.

 

[Ben Sinai]

So, saved from what? Would you elaborate?

　
Yah’s furnace. The one that He kindles with His breath. Ge Hinnom.
　

That's also mature and intellectual.

　
I can’t help if you cannot see the significance of my asking if you were a Sadducee. I even showed why I asked because of their non belief of a resurrection.
　

This has nothing to do with physical resurrection.

　
Just because you say so huh? LOL
　

This is a description of Jewish exile, when according to Isaiah 53:8.9 we are cut off from the Land of the Living, which is the Land of Israel, and a grave is assigned to us among the Gentiles.

　
More of mans inventions of his own thoughts, feelings and traditions. Its complete rubbish. Yesha’yah 53 is a prophecy of Yahshua Ha Moshiach Ben Dawid.
　

according to Ezekiel 37:12, the Lord opens our graves and has us rise from them, and brings us back to the Land of Israel, which is the Land of the living. That's the resurrection we believe.

　
Yes, this is a resurrection as well. I agree with this.
　

No, it does not. Sorry, but you are being too literal. I thought you had said you understand analogy and metaphor.

　
Verse 19 does directly speak of a resurrection and I do understand that which are an analogy and a metaphor but you seem to have your own problems with them. You seem not to know how to contextualize what you are reading. You add all these thoughts, feelings and the traditions of men when all this time you could just simply read it and stop adding to or taking away from.
　

Verse 19 is explained in Ezekiel 37:12, as I showed above.

　
They explain each other. What’s funny as hell YBM is that you stated that resurrection did not exist and now you have proven that it does. I applaud your ignorance of scripture, as others also have brought to light, as well as your pure emotional vanity of defending it. Its been an education for me of your type.
　

Just quote to me what you say is throughout the Tanach, speaking about dead being made to live again.

　
1 Sam 2:6
1 Kings 17:17-24
2 Kings 4:32-37
Eze 37:9-12
Job 19:26
Isa 26:19
Dan 12:2
　
These as well as other mentions in the NT shows of techiat hameitim, "revival of the dead".
　

You never know what I can say until you hear my saying it.

　
Oh, I’m pretty sure of myself on that subject.
　

And of course, you see Jesus here. I wonder why!

　
Because it is Yahshua spoken of here.
　

And of course, you can't see Israel, the People here. I wonder why Isaiah does.

　
Oh, but I do see Yisrael here because these are those that He has gathered from the four corners of the world that serve him.
　

One from the East is the servant Israel. Where did Abraham come from, not from the East? And where did Israel come from, not from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

　
Stop trying to add to the text and just simply read it. How could they come from the east when it just said that He brought them from all over the world? Of course Abraham came from the east as well as Yisrael when they were in the east to begin with but they, Yisrael, are no longer in the east but scattered all over the world. That “One” that is spoken of here is the same “One” that was sitting at His right-hand. Yahshua Ha Moshiach Ben Dawid is the “One” that is to come and overcome the enemies of Yah, and that of Yisrael, to be his footstool thus saving them and protecting them so that they can be called from the four corners of the world to the land of Yisrael.

　　

I would need more than a post to explain to you what kind of Moshiach Yisrael is. But if you read my thread, "The Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53," you will have a pretty good idea.

　
No, it shouldn’t take more than a few lines unless you want to add to the word of Yah. LOL, I have already read that garbage and that thread is as much rubbish as the others that you have posted. Not one contextualized scriptural basis to stand on what so ever. Just a bunch of puffed up thoughts and feelings of man.
　

And what do you have to substantiate your claim, writings of Gentiles 50+ years after Yeshua had been gone? Not much convincing. To claim that Isaiah 53 points to Jesus, you have only assumptions as if Jesus was the only Jew to be crucified by the Romans.

　
I have those as well as what I read in the Law and the Prophets. They are convincing enough for me which all in all are all that matters to me. They are the light which shows forth of the truth which is in my big brother Yahshua Ha Moshiach Ben Dawid. He was the only Hebrew Yisraelite that the Romans killed, by carrying out the false accusations and false witnesses of the so called jewish authorities, that had been chosen and anointed as an instrument by which Yah used to save those that serve Him. You have only the same garbage that has been spewed since his death by those that deny him. You have no proof that it didn’t occur and all of the adding and taking away from the true word, as those that do deny him, only further show how deceitful and defiant they all really are. They are Ben Belial. There are words from Yah that describe them.
　
“But to the wicked Elohim says: "What right do you have to proclaim my laws or take my covenant on your lips, when you so hate to receive instruction and fling my words behind you? When you see a thief, you join up with him, you throw in your lot with adulterers, you give your mouth free rein for evil and harness your tongue to deceit; you sit and speak against your kinsman, you slander your own mother's son. (Yahshua and Sha'ul) When you do such things, should I stay silent? You may have thought I was just like you; but I will rebuke and indict you to your face. Consider this, you who forget Elohim, or I will tear you to pieces, with no one to save you.”

Here ya go. Something to grind your teeth on while I get ready and go to Shabbat class. See ya later. :yes:

 

[Ben Masada]

　
Yah’s furnace. The one that He kindles with His breath. Ge Hinnom.

I don't believe you could be that primitive to believe in such a rubbish. In your place I would at least change my name. That name does not fit the garbage you have just said above.
　
I can’t help if you cannot see the significance of my asking if you were a Sadducee. I even showed why I asked because of their non belief of a resurrection.

And who believed in physical resurrection, the Pharisees? As I can see you too believe in Pauline lies.
　
Yesha’yah 53 is a prophecy of Yahshua Ha Moshiach Ben Dawid.

More rubbish that you cannot prove. At least I can show you Isaiah mentioning Israel by name for the Suffering Servant of his chapter 53. All you have are assumptions,
which are no different from lies.
　
Yes, this is a resurrection as well. I agree with this.

No, this is Aliyah or return from exile to Eretz Israel. Perhaps you don't even know what I am talking about in spite of such a name. I hope that's not your real name.
　
Verse 19 does directly speak of a resurrection and I do understand that which are an analogy and a metaphor but you seem to have your own problems with them. You seem not to know how to contextualize what you are reading. You add all these thoughts, feelings and the traditions of men when all this time you could just simply read it and stop adding to or taking away from.

You talking about adding to or taking from? You should be the ones to tear the NT away from the Bible which you guys added against the injunction of Deuteronomy 4:2.
　
I applaud your ignorance of scripture, as others also have brought to light, as well as your pure emotional vanity of defending it. Its been an education for me of your type.

And I applaud your primitive ignorance of Logic to say that an anthropomorphic God is waiting with Gehinnon to burn those who don't believe the demigod He conceived in a woman as if He was an Olympian Zeus.
　
1 Sam 2:6 - This is metaphorical of someone reaching the rock-bottom or the lowest point in one's life and being raised up again, which is something very common to happen.

1 Kings 17:17-24 - What Elijah did to that boy was resuscitation. The Scripitures could not contradict itself thus so blatantly. Only people who believe in hell and Gehinnon can see resurrection here.

2 Kings 4:32-37 - Here, the boy in the case of Elisha had had a sun stroke and had passed out, and Elisha applied the same method used by Elijah with the other boy, and the second boy recovered. Only ignoramus who have no initiation in the Medical field can think of something else than resuscitation.

Eze 37:9-12 - I can't believe you think that this one is literal. I am serious about my suggestion to you to change your name. Read again verse 12. If this is literal, does it mean that when the whole world resurrect, everyone will return to Israel? That's embarrassing!

Job 19:26 - That's firm hope that still in this life Job would relate to God and would not die, as according to the book, it was true. Job recovered. Besides, read Job 9:9,10; 10:21; and 14:12. These are all against anyone ever returning from the dead.

Isa 26:19 - This is about the Jewish exiles who are considered dead in the graves of the nations, which at the end of the exile, they rise like corpses coming out of graves, and returning to Eretz Israel.

Dan 12:2 - The many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake are the remnant Isaiah speak of in 10:21. Some shall live forever in the Land of the Living in Eretz Israel. These are the ones who will return. The other that shall be in everlasting horror and disgrace are the majority who choose to stay in the Diaspora, like a shameful slave who decides to remain slave after his freedom.
　　

　

 

[AK4]

You haven't said a word to prove the resurrection of Jesus. Go ahead and use your own NT. Prove to me that he resurrected but clean of contradictions; otherwise it won't be beyond the shadow of a doubt. Can you do that? I am all ears.

So you want me to show you scriptures that say of this and the people who claimed they saw Him and yet expect you to believe them. He appeared to His disciples, not to everyone. Even doubting Thomas didnt believe at first.

But why use the NT? Lets us your favorite passage for Isa 53

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]53:10 Yet it was the Lord's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
Yes i know what you think those words and this whole passage mean so dont bother. This point made here is about (for your benefit) IF this was talking about the Messiah, it shows how the Messiah must still be alive or resurrected so that He will see his offspring and it shows how His life is not ended

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][FONT=Arial, Helvetica][/FONT]53:11 After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquitiesHere again (and for your benefit again) IF this was talking of Jesus notice in verses 8 and 12 He was killed or put to death and yet in these two verses it shows Him living again

Now dont argue that this is talking of the jewish people and blah blah blah, you wanted scriptures to show how it could possibly show of Jesus resurrection and since Isa 53 is considered a passage of the coming Messiah you have your answer. And nothing in this passage contradicts what written in the Gospels.


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[Ben Sinai]

I don't believe you could be that primitive to believe in such a rubbish.

　
To call the word of Yah garbage is beyond reproach. As far as primitive goes, what you think you worship might but my El never changes. He is the same today, tomorrow and has always been. You can’t get anymore primitive than Yah Himself. He has always been.
　

And who believed in physical resurrection, the Pharisees?

　
“In the First Century BC, there were debates between the Pharisees who believed in the future Resurrection, and the Sadducees who did not. The Sadducees did not believe in an afterlife, but the Pharisees believed in a literal resurrection of the body. The Sadducees, politically powerful religious leaders, took a literal view of the Torah, rejecting the Pharisees' oral law, afterlife, angels, and demons. The Pharisees, whose views became Rabbinic Judaism, eventually won (or at least survived) this debate. The promise of a future resurrection appears in certain Jewish works, such as the Life of Adam and Eve, c 100 BC, and the Pharisaic book 2 Maccabees, c 124 BC.”
　
It don’t get anymore physical than a body. Sounds like rabbinic judaism believes in a physical resurrection as well. What kinda jew are you?
　

More rubbish that you cannot prove. At least I can show you Isaiah mentioning Israel by name for the Suffering Servant of his chapter 53. All you have are assumptions, which are no different from lies.

　
You cannot show that Yisrael was any so called suffering servant in Yesha‘yah 53. The words suffer, nor suffering, doesn‘t even show in the whole of chapter 53. It plainly states His Righteous Servant. Since when has Yisrael become righteous? LOL I further read “for the transgression of my people was he stricken.” His people is Yisrael so they can’t be the ones spoken of here with regards as the Righteous Servant. Everything that is spoken of here in 53 is also said of Yahshua. He was all the things stated.
　

No, this is Aliyah or return from exile to Eretz Israel.

　
LOL, Yea I’ve seen all these people running around claiming aliyah. What a joke. Yah said He will bring the people back and I can assure you it won’t be on yours or anyone else’s time line or schedule but that of Yah. Furthermore, YES! Eze 37:12 does speak of a resurrection unless you can prove beyond a shadow of doubt within the law and the prophets that “I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves” doesn’t mean just what it states.
　

And I applaud your primitive ignorance of Logic to say that an anthropomorphic God is waiting with Gehinnon to burn those who don't believe the demigod He conceived in a woman as if He was an Olympian Zeus.

　
Other than Ge Hinnom as it is written in Scripture, and its purpose, I have never said nor do I believe in what you claim. What you state is a morbid lie and an assumption of what you think you know about what I believe. Yet you are wrong again and again.
　

1 Sam 2:6 - This is metaphorical of someone reaching the rock-bottom or the lowest point in one's life and being raised up again, which is something very common to happen.

　
The verse states:
　
1Sa 2:6 YAH kills, and makes alive. He brings down to grave, and brings up.
　
To be brought down to the grave and be brought back up again is a form of resurrection.

1 Kings 17:17-24 - What Elijah did to that boy was resuscitation. The Scripitures could not contradict itself thus so blatantly. Only people who believe in hell and Gehinnon can see resurrection here.

　
Then the people that believe in Ge Hinnom and resurrections are correct because it is written that there was no breath in him so he was dead. He was resurrected back to life.

2 Kings 4:32-37 - Here, the boy in the case of Elisha had had a sun stroke and had passed out, and Elisha applied the same method used by Elijah with the other boy, and the second boy recovered. Only ignoramus who have no initiation in the Medical field can think of something else than resuscitation.

The text say’s the boy was dead. Are you claiming that he wasn’t? What’s funny is that you would have us believe that Eliyah and Eliysha knew CPR. LOL

Eze 37:9-12 - I can't believe you think that this one is literal. Read again verse 12. If this is literal, does it mean that when the whole world resurrect, everyone will return to Israel? That's embarrassing!

No. I stated the fact that there was mention of resurrection throughout the Tanach and I have thus posted such because you asked. I in no way ever made claim to this verse being literal or not. It is speaking of a resurrection.

Job 19:26 - That's firm hope that still in this life Job would relate to God and would not die, as according to the book, it was true. Job recovered. Besides, read Job 9:9,10; 10:21; and 14:12. These are all against anyone ever returning from the dead.

　
What does Job 9:9-10 have to do with the dead never coming back?
　
10:21 is Job speaking of his carnal life here on earth as he has enjoyed up to this point and time. If he died the first death then he would not return until the first resurrection or in the second before the great white throne of judgment.

Isa 26:19 - This is about the Jewish exiles who are considered dead in the graves of the nations, which at the end of the exile, they rise like corpses coming out of graves, and returning to Eretz Israel.

　
This is about anyone that has obeyed His Torah and has faith in Yahshua. Yisrael.

Dan 12:2 - The many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake are the remnant Isaiah speak of in 10:21. Some shall live forever in the Land of the Living in Eretz Israel. These are the ones who will return. The other that shall be in everlasting horror and disgrace are the majority who choose to stay in the Diaspora, like a shameful slave who decides to remain slave after his freedom.

The righteous that obtain that beatific vision of eternal life will not just be bound to the land of Yisrael. Why not broaden your horizons.
　

In your place I would at least change my name. That name does not fit the garbage you have just said above.

　

Perhaps you don't even know what I am talking about in spite of such a name. I hope that's not your real name.

　

As I can see you too believe in Pauline lies.

　

You talking about adding to or taking from? You should be the ones to tear the NT away from the Bible which you guys added against the injunction of Deuteronomy 4:2.

　

I am serious about my suggestion to you to change your name.

　

Only ignoramus

　
Further proof how little you know about the true word of Yah.

 

[Ben Masada]

So you want me to show you scriptures that say of this and the people who claimed they saw Him and yet expect you to believe them. He appeared to His disciples, not to everyone. Even doubting Thomas didnt believe at first.

Now, read Acts 1:3. Luke says in there that Jesus appeared to the disciples with many convincing proofs that he was alive after his sufferings or according to the KJV, after his passion. It does not mean that he even died, let along resurrected.

But why use the NT? Lets us your favorite passage for Isa 53
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]53:10 Yet it was the Lord's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.[/FONT]


Read the thread "The Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53." "Him" who was crushed was Israel, whose life was an offering for the guilt of Judah. The offspring are those of Judah who would remain in all the Land of Israel.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Yes i know what you think those words and this whole passage mean so dont bother. This point made here is about (for your benefit) IF this was talking about the Messiah, it shows how the Messiah must still be alive or resurrected so that He will see his offspring and it shows how His life is not ended.[/FONT]


Yes, because his life continued in the offspring of Judah.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]53:11 After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]"Many". Why don't you ask yourself why "many" and not "all"? If it was Jesus, he justified only "many" and not "all"? I tell you the truth. That's Israel or MbJ who with his death justified the "many" of Judah, and not "all" the world.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]and he will bear their iniquitiesHere again (and for your benefit again) IF this was talking of Jesus notice in verses 8 and 12 He was killed or put to death and yet in these two verses it shows Him living again[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Where is he living again? Prove it. Show me. If you can't, stop the Pauline rhetoric that's possible only through faith. That's a cop-out.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Now dont argue that this is talking of the jewish people and blah blah blah, you wanted scriptures to show how it could possibly show of Jesus resurrection and since Isa 53 is considered a passage of the coming Messiah you have your answer. And nothing in this passage contradicts what written in the Gospels.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]You haven't proved anything. You can't prove anything with bla blah blah of assumptions.[/FONT]

 

[Ben Masada]

　
To call the word of Yah garbage is beyond reproach. As far as primitive goes, what you think you worship might but my El never changes. He is the same today, tomorrow and has always been. You can’t get anymore primitive than Yah Himself. He has always been.


I never use these names until someone starts using them on me. I am never the one who starts. I am a little more civil than that. But when somone starts using them, I take as if he or she enjoys those words. Review your posts.
　
the Pharisees believed in a literal resurrection of the body. The Sadducees, politically powerful religious leaders, took a literal view of the Torah, rejecting the Pharisees' oral law, afterlife, angels, and demons.

The Pharisees believed in resurrection as described by Ezekiel 37:12. In angels as emanations, read "The Guide for the Perplexed" by Moses Maimonides. And in demons as an illustration for evil inclination in man.

It don’t get anymore physical than a body. Sounds like rabbinic judaism believes in a physical resurrection as well. What kinda jew are you?

Mine is Biblical Judaism. I do respect Rabbinical Judaism as far as it does not contradict the Scriptures. I cannot admit conradictions in the Tanach, and physical resurrection is one, along with angels and demons as real beings. They are concepts.

You cannot show that Yisrael was any so called suffering servant in Yesha‘yah 53. The words suffer, nor suffering, doesn‘t even show in the whole of chapter
53.


Never mind what shows or does not show in Isaiah 53. It's a consensus that the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 is the Messiah. Since Isaiah identifies that Servant throughout his book as Israel by name, you have no business assuming that he was Jesus.


It plainly states His Righteous Servant. Since when has Yisrael become righteous?


Read my thread "Almah versus Betulah" and you might understand how, if you take off the blinders.


LOL I further read “for the transgression of my people was he stricken.” His people is Yisrael so they can’t be the ones spoken of here with regards as the Righteous Servant.


See what I mean? You discard the truth without thinking about what you are saying. "His People is Israel!" His whose? Do you know who is talking? Isaiah. His People was not Israel but Judah. Isaiah was a Judahite from Tecoa, south of Bethlehem. I visited the place. So, for the transgression of Judah, Israel was stricken.


Everything that is spoken of here in 53 is also said of Yahshua. He was all the things stated.


And what you have to substantiate what you claim is only assumption as if Jesus was the only Jew crucified by the Romans. Read Josephus.


Eze 37:12 does speak of a resurrection unless you can prove beyond a shadow of doubt within the law and the prophets that “I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves” doesn’t mean just what it states.


What proof do you want, the opinion of another man? If the word of Ezekiel the Prophet is not enough, you are beyond repair. Think of the People coming out of their graves in exile and returning to Israel. Is this physical resurrection? If the physical resurrection fabricated by Paul is true, people will resurrect and return to Israel? Have mercy on yourself!
　
Other than Ge Hinnom as it is written in Scripture, and its purpose, I have never said nor do I believe in what you claim. What you state is a morbid lie and an assumption of what you think you know about what I believe. Yet you are wrong again and again.


I think the liar here is you for assuming what Jesus is without a single evidence in the only Scriptures he was aware of.
　
Then the people that believe in Ge Hinnom and resurrections are correct because it is written that there was no breath in him so he was dead. He was resurrected back to life.


I see no difference between you and personification of superstitions.


No. I stated the fact that there was mention of resurrection throughout the Tanach and I have thus posted such because you asked. I in no way ever made claim to this verse being literal or not. It is speaking of a resurrection.


What you are trying is to share the contradictions of the NT with the Tanach, in order to justify the NT discrepancies. I have given you many Biblical quotations that disprove physical resurrection. Read Ecclesiastes. The Scriptures cannot contradict themselves.


What does Job 9:9-10 have to do with the dead never coming back?
10:21 is Job speaking of his carnal life here on earth as he has enjoyed up to this point and time. If he died the first death then he would not return until the first resurrection or in the second before the great white throne of judgment.

Those are evidences against physical resurrection. This of first death, first resurrection, heaven and gehinon, are all fabrications of Pauline rhetoric.


This is about anyone that has obeyed His Torah and has faith in Yahshua. Yisrael.


Read Revelation 14:12. "Here is the patience of the Saints: Here are those who keep the commandments of God and the Faith of Yeshua." It does not say "in Yeshua" but the Faith of Yeshua. Do you happen to know what was the Faith of Yeshua? JUDAISM.


The righteous that obtain that beatific vision of eternal life will not just be bound to the land of Yisrael. Why not broaden your horizons.

You are so childish that your mind is not equipped to understand the concept of eternity. There is no eternity in those who are born. Death becomes only natural, and God does not change natural laws. It would rather prove that God is weak and therefore, not God. Read Baruch de Spinoza.
　
Further proof how little you know about the true word of Yah.


What is the Truth? Care to venture a definition?

 

[AK4]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]"Many". Why don't you ask yourself why "many" and not "all"? If it was Jesus, he justified only "many" and not "all"? I tell you the truth. That's Israel or MbJ who with his death justified the "many" of Judah, and not "all" the world.[/FONT]

You speak of what of what you know not. I know why its many and its for this age. It will be all in the ages after the next.


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Where is he living again? Prove it. Show me. If you can't, stop the Pauline rhetoric that's possible only through faith. That's a cop-out.[/FONT]

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Prove it to me that the Ark of the Covenant was ever built. Prove it. If you cant then stop with all the there is a God thing (atheist argument)


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]You haven't proved anything. You can't prove anything with bla blah blah of assumptions.[/FONT]

And yet you do this with everytime when say something is Pauline rhetoric or an interpolation. You have never ever show any proof.

 

[Ben Sinai]

I never use these names until someone starts using them on me.

　
What names?
　

I am never the one who starts. I am a little more civil than that.

　
From what I have seen thus far from the threads I have read that you have posted in is that you indeed are the first one to start it. You did with me.
　

But when somone starts using them, I take as if he or she enjoys those words. Review your posts.

　
I would assume that if someone uses a certain word for a certain purpose then it is that word that was chose by that individual for that purpose hence they do like it for that purpose. For instance, and not that this represents you at all, but if one was to call you a “self-absorbed egotistical delusional spoiled brat” would mean for the purpose of describing you as the way they feel about you, or how they feel you act and handle yourself, shows that they liked those words enough to use them for that instance.

The Pharisees believed in resurrection as described by Ezekiel 37:12. In angels as emanations, read "The Guide for the Perplexed" by Moses Maimonides. And in demons as an illustration for evil inclination in man.

　
I have no need for mans dribble where it has to do with the word of Yah. You seem to thrive on it though. The Pharisees believed in physical resurrection, period. You don’t. I believe you are in error. You spew this error to others and some of us wish to shed light on those that deceive.

Mine is Biblical Judaism. I do respect Rabbinical Judaism as far as it does not contradict the Scriptures. I cannot admit conradictions in the Tanach, and physical resurrection is one, along with angels and demons as real beings. They are concepts.

　
And I disagree with you. What contradiction? There is no contradiction when it comes to resurrection. I believe that both righteous as well as unrighteous malachem are real and true as I do all of the words that come from Yah. You again only have what you think and what you feel while the rest of us have what is written.

Never mind what shows or does not show in Isaiah 53. It's a consensus that the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 is the Messiah. Since Isaiah identifies that Servant throughout his book as Israel by name, you have no business assuming that he was Jesus.

　
Never mind? That servant? Where does it state that Yisrael was a “suffering servant” and where does it state that Yisrael was the only “suffering servant”? Where is the two words even used in the same verse? “Suffer, Suffers, Suffering” plus “Servant”?
　
You have no business assuming that it wasn’t Yahshua. I see many servants for I am one as well. I to suffer everyday. So call me a suffering servant. Your ideology is flawed beyond repair. You see yourself as the one to fix what isn’t broken. What’s broken is the hearts and minds that you deceive into believing such garbage.
　

Read my thread "Almah versus Betulah" and you might understand how, if you take off the blinders.

　
No thank you. I’m quite sure it is full of the same old trashy rhetoric as all your other threads.
　

See what I mean? You discard the truth without thinking about what you are saying. "His People is Israel!" His whose? Do you know who is talking? Isaiah. His People was not Israel but Judah. Isaiah was a Judahite from Tecoa, south of Bethlehem. I visited the place. So, for the transgression of Judah, Israel was stricken.

No, your confused. You don’t see what I mean. And you are the one who speaks lies through your own assumptions of your personal delusional thoughts and feelings. His righteous servant is speaking of Yah’s righteous servant and this verse is speaking of the one and only Yahshua Ha Moshiach Ben Dawid.
　

And what you have to substantiate what you claim is only assumption as if Jesus was the only Jew crucified by the Romans. Read Josephus.

　
LOL and here we go with this same old crap again. Haven’t you got any new material YBM. LOL The jews did it anyways. They were all dressed up like romans. LOL

 

[Ben Sinai]

What proof do you want, the opinion of another man? If the word of Ezekiel the Prophet is not enough, you are beyond repair. Think of the People coming out of their graves in exile and returning to Israel. Is this physical resurrection? If the physical resurrection fabricated by Paul is true, people will resurrect and return to Israel? Have mercy on yourself!

　
LOL. Maybe but certainly not you. LOL Hey can’t you see the jews running around in roman soldiers garb crucifying other jews? That’s what it says. Can’t you see it? If you can’t then there is no help for you. LOL What a joke. Anyone can read into anything whatever they want it to say but one only needs to simply read it and stop doing as you do and reading into it. If chosen by your righteousness to obtain that beatific vision of immortality then you will be resurrected and will return to Yisrael into the kingdom of Elohim. It is well documented within the pages of the bible and the bible is what we have as proof. It is all I need. I need no man or mans thoughts and feelings. I need only one and that is Yah’s way that He prepared through His only begotten son of the dead.
　

I think the liar here is you for assuming what Jesus is without a single evidence in the only Scriptures he was aware of.

　
You can think whatever blows your dress up. There are plenty of evidences but you will only refute it with further personal delusional thoughts and feelings of your own. Its not worth my time to go through such filth as you would undoubtedly reply with.
　

I see no difference between you and personification of superstitions.

　
That’s fine. I can live with that. Its just you have also declared your total disbelief of the entire bible and Yah Himself. I can see that. You fit that quite well. One of my assumptions of you was that you might be an undercover atheist trying their best to do as much damage to Yah’s word as you possibly could. I’m beginning to believe it to be a fact more and more.
　

What you are trying is to share the contradictions of the NT with the Tanach, in order to justify the NT discrepancies. I have given you many Biblical quotations that disprove physical resurrection. Read Ecclesiastes. The Scriptures cannot contradict themselves.

　
There are no contradictions. You just can’t fabricate what isn’t there. Oh that’s right. I forgot whom I was dealing with for a sec. It is completely understood that Ecclesiastes was dealing with men that thought they were above death and that maybe, in their minds, they could bring themselves back form the dead or beat death somehow or way. Your trying to make something celestial into something terrestrial. You can’t do that. Ecclesiastes deals with the terrestrial while the resurrection is to do with celestial. I am not at all acquainted with what scientology is but if it has anything to do with science then maybe you would be more apt to be a scientologist than what you profess to be. You being all into the natural laws and all.
　

Those are evidences against physical resurrection. This of first death, first resurrection, heaven and gehinon, are all fabrications of Pauline rhetoric.

　
They are in no way shape or form any kind of evidence against resurrection. And the only fabricated rhetoric we have here is what you have stated.
　

Read Revelation 14:12. "Here is the patience of the Saints: Here are those who keep the commandments of God and the Faith of Yeshua." It does not say "in Yeshua" but the Faith of Yeshua. Do you happen to know what was the Faith of Yeshua? JUDAISM.

　
Oh my gosh, and just when I thought I had seen every stupidly imbecile notion out there you go and surprise me once again. Care to take it to the Greek? I bet you that the word “of” as well as “in” is not in it. It simply states “to believe Yahshua”. Furthermore, Yahshua did not believe nor follow the man made religion that the so called jews call judaism. He believed and had faith in as well as obeyed Yah. Why don’t you stop trying to think you are so much smarter than everyone else in trying to spew your filthy lies about my Moshiach and my brethren that taught of him?
　

You are so childish that your mind is not equipped to understand the concept of eternity. There is no eternity in those who are born. Death becomes only natural, and God does not change natural laws. It would rather prove that God is weak and therefore, not God. Read Baruch de Spinoza.

　
LOL. I am but a child as everyone else when it comes to such things but I know that if I be one of the chosen that I will be shown it. I can wait. I need no mans thoughts or feelings on the matter. That you can have. Natural law is to do with natural things of this earth that are carnal and mortal. I speak of spiritual things that are not subject to such chaos. You so have a really low scriptural aptitude. Or maybe you do know the truth and you are one that hates Yah and wants to hurt him in any way possible.
　

What is the Truth? Care to venture a definition?

　
Sure. Truth is what I live by.
　
Deu 8:3 He humbled you, and allowed you to hunger, and fed you with manna, which you didn't know, neither did your fathers know; that he might make you know that man does not live by bread only, but by everything that proceeds out of the mouth of YAH does man live.
　
Mat 4:4 But he answered, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of Elohim.'"

 

[Ben Masada]

You speak of what of what you know not. I know why its many and its for this age. It will be all in the ages after the next.

You don't even know what you are talking about.

 

[bob0007]

Christians, especially Protestants, and among them, the Seventh-Day Adventists in particular, enjoy to talk about the mark of the Beast; and with fantastic definitions, that only make a ridiculous picture of themselves. Then, they charge each other with the potential to
get the mark of the Beast. They think of almost everything but the real thing, which is given by the NT itself.

The mark of the Beast appears in conjunction with the Antichrist. Morphologically, the term Antichrist is composed of two words:
Anti and Christ. Anti means to stand against or to contradict. Christ means what Christians believe Jesus was. So, what stands against
Christ is only obvious that it means the Antichrist.

According to Matthew 5:17, Jesus declared that he had not come to abolish the Jewish laws. Then, 30 years later, Paul came and said
that what Jesus said was not true, but rather that the Jewish laws were abolished on the cross. (Ephe. 2:15)

As we can see, Paul stood against what Jesus said by contradicting his words about his purpose regarding the Jewish laws. If Jesus was
indeed Christ, as Christians believe he was, it's only obvious that Paul acted as the Antichrist.

Now, where did Paul say the Jewish laws were abolished? On the cross. And what did the cross mean to him? "God forbid," he said, "that I should glory in anything save in the cross." The cross meant the glory of Paul. (Gal. 6:14)

Now, we have the mark of the Beast: The cross, a symbol of shame and a curse to the Anointed of the Lord, who, in the words of Habakkuk 3:13, is the People of Israel, the Jewish People.

Now, your comments are welcome.

Ben :yes:

Ben,
Paul is indeed the false prophet of Revelation, but the mark of the beast is related to Deuteronomy 6:8, whereas keeping God's commandments is a mark on the hand and forehead, whereas, the mark of the beast is the mark of the beast with two horns like a lamb, in which the beast was the establisher of the Roman Catholic Church, Constantine the Great King of Rome. The two horns like a lamb being Peter, representing the "worthless shepherd" of Zecharia 11, and Paul, being the shepherd of Zecharia who was referred to as "Favor", as in his gospel of grace, based on the supposed favor of God. The mark of the beast being keeping the law of Constantine, which changed the law and times of God, with respect to keeping the day of the Sun as the day of rest. The law past by Constantine in 325, stated that if you don't keep Sunday as the day of rest, you could not buy or sell land or hold public office.
Bob

 

[Ben Masada]

Ben,
Paul is indeed the false prophet of Revelation, but the mark of the beast is related to Deuteronomy 6:8, whereas keeping God's commandments is a mark on the hand and forehead, whereas, the mark of the beast is the mark of the beast with two horns like a lamb, in which the beast was the establisher of the Roman Catholic Church, Constantine the Great King of Rome. The two horns like a lamb being Peter, representing the "worthless shepherd" of Zecharia 11, and Paul, being the shepherd of Zecharia who was referred to as "Favor", as in his gospel of grace, based on the supposed favor of God. The mark of the beast being keeping the law of Constantine, which changed the law and times of God, with respect to keeping the day of the Sun as the day of rest. The law past by Constantine in 325, stated that if you don't keep Sunday as the day of rest, you could not buy or sell land or hold public office.
Bob

I would maintain that the mark of the beast is a trace of character whose name is Antisemitism. The anti-Semite therefore, becomes a synonym with the Antichrist. Why? Because Christ in Greek means Anointed of God. According to Habakkuk 3:13, the People of Israel is the Anointed of the Lord. Therefore, the Christ of God. So, the anti-Semite or anti-Jewish is a member of the Antichrist.

 

[Zardoz]

You don't even know what you are talking about.

Ben, the Ignore List is a wonderful thing... that one was my second on the list.

I would maintain that the mark of the beast is a trace of character whose name is Antisemitism. The anti-Semite therefore, becomes a synonym with the Antichrist. Why? Because Christ in Greek means Anointed of God. According to Habakkuk 3:13, the People of Israel is the Anointed of the Lord. Therefore, the Christ of God. So, the anti-Semite or anti-Jewish is a member of the Antichrist.

My view is that to understand what Yeshua meant by the Antichrist, you must first see who would be the Anti-Jew. Considering the environment during his life, there's no doubt in my mind who he's referring to. None other than the same old Anti-Jew that's always been there.

Esau = Edom = Rome.

Now, who do we all know who considered himself a Roman, hmmm?...

 

[Ben Masada]

Ben, the Ignore List is a wonderful thing... that one was my second on the list.



My view is that to understand what Yeshua meant by the Antichrist, you must first see who would be the Anti-Jew. Considering the environment during his life, there's no doubt in my mind who he's referring to. None other than the same old Anti-Jew that's always been there.

Esau = Edom = Rome.

Now, who do we all know who considered himself a Roman, hmmm?...

...and who would find glory in nothing else but in the cross, which had made of Jesus himself a cursed man, according to the Scriptures, that says, cursed be the one who is hanged from a three, which in the original in Hebrew is "wood." Therefore, the same as the cross, which was of wood.(Deut. 21:23; Gal. 6:14)

 

[AlsoAnima]

Christians, especially Protestants, and among them, the Seventh-Day Adventists in particular, enjoy to talk about the mark of the Beast; and with fantastic definitions, that only make a ridiculous picture of themselves. Then, they charge each other with the potential to
get the mark of the Beast. They think of almost everything but the real thing, which is given by the NT itself.

The mark of the Beast appears in conjunction with the Antichrist. Morphologically, the term Antichrist is composed of two words:
Anti and Christ. Anti means to stand against or to contradict. Christ means what Christians believe Jesus was. So, what stands against
Christ is only obvious that it means the Antichrist.

According to Matthew 5:17, Jesus declared that he had not come to abolish the Jewish laws. Then, 30 years later, Paul came and said
that what Jesus said was not true, but rather that the Jewish laws were abolished on the cross. (Ephe. 2:15)

As we can see, Paul stood against what Jesus said by contradicting his words about his purpose regarding the Jewish laws. If Jesus was
indeed Christ, as Christians believe he was, it's only obvious that Paul acted as the Antichrist.

Now, where did Paul say the Jewish laws were abolished? On the cross. And what did the cross mean to him? "God forbid," he said, "that I should glory in anything save in the cross." The cross meant the glory of Paul. (Gal. 6:14)

Now, we have the mark of the Beast: The cross, a symbol of shame and a curse to the Anointed of the Lord, who, in the words of Habakkuk 3:13, is the People of Israel, the Jewish People.

Now, your comments are welcome.

Ben :yes:

You provoked much laughter from this one. A good joke indeed.

 

[Ben Masada]

You provoked much laughter from this one. A good joke indeed.

Believe me, it was not my purpose.