The Mark of the Beast

[IF_u_knew]

I felt really bad that you would have taken the time to aknowledge my posts and try to discuss our opposing views and then, I give up. Please, understand that lately, I feel sort of like broken record and as you feel that it gets old w/ the Paul discussions from your point of view, it does mine as well. Anyway, I am sorry that I do not have it in me to go through each and every response that you have given, but I will show you the courtesy to draw on points that you made that do jump out to me.

The Torah is for all that will accept it. Go read Isaiah 56 about the strangers that accept the Torah. Sha’ul was speaking to those that were Torah observant when making statements.

Explain how you think that Paul was wise to instruct Gentiles to disregard what it is that is in the Torah and the testimonies. God is clear even in Ezekiel that to enter into His Sanctuary, the covenant, it is not ONLY the circumcision of the heart that counts... one MUST ALSO BE circumcised in the flesh as well. The New Covenant that is laid out in Jeremiah 31 has not abolished anything that was laid out in the Old covenant... only that instead of it being written in stone, it is written on the heart. All else still stands. For Gentiles to be a part of the covenant between Israel and God, they still must join as it is laid out by God and not by Paul.

Other than the question of whether the Gentiles are to circumcise or not, just what differences are there?

The Church and most Christians do consider themselves having replaced the Jewish People in their covenant with God. To say that you can not see what all is changed in their views, all the disregarding of the Torah and their misunderstanding of the testimonies... a lot of this *does* fall on Paul. I have given you examples and you dismiss them only proving my point.

Yes they are. What we do today is observe the memorial of those Holy Days as was commanded but the full fledged observance will return at the rebuilding of the Temple when Yahshua returns.

Who is the "we" here... and what are the Holy Days according to you?

I don’t blame Sha’ul for the false messengers and sons of beliel that have taught such lies and deceits to the masses which call themselves christians today. Sha’ul taught Yah’s Torah and truth as was expressed by Yahshua Ha Moshiach. As I told Ben Masada, the christians don’t have it anymore right than he, and now you.

Ben is Jewish though... Psalm 78:5... so, though I can see you disregarding what it is I say, why are you so quick to assume that you are right over him and others who are Jewish. Do you think there was a mistake made on the part of God when He established the testimonies and the Law in the Jewish People? Or even further, do you think He lied and really psalm 78:5 should have been your name? There is nothing wrong to read and have a personal view of the Tanakh on your own, but to just disregard those who God said we were to pay attention is to disregard the Word of God... and Paul did support this repeatedly as is shown in such statements as "shut their mouths" <----- speaking of the Jewish People. Does this not ring off alarm bells in your head when, AGAIN, God said He established the Word with *them*.. the Jews?

What total hogwash. He taught them to observe the Torah which if anyone does, and believes on Yahshua Ha Moshiach, they will have a place in the kingdom.

He REPEATEDLY called what is written in the Torah, the commands and traditions of men. He tells Gentiles not to worry about being circumcised when even in Ezekiel, God is clear that to enter His sanctuary, one MUST be circumcised not only in the heart, but also IN THE FLESH!

Paul repeatedly implies that Jesus is God and that is the Saviour and calls him Lord when God is clear in Isaiah that HIS name is LORD, that He is the ONLY Saviour (there is no other), and that He alone is God.. there was not one formed before Him and neither would there be after... not to mention it repeatedly states throughout the Tanakh that God *is* not a man. To say that He was, is, or will be is to blatantly ignore the Truth of God's Word. Also, the Son of God is not only Jesus... Exodus 4:22,23 and Hosea 11:1 say who it is that is declared by God as His firstborn. Now... when you ignore those who are Jewish and trying to teach you, such as Ben or others, then how are you going to say that you would have paid any attention to Jesus who would not have been in disagreement with what they are telling you? You *are* denying the Son of God when you deny ANY of the Chosen of God, the People of Israel.

As far as acting as the adopted bride which is the assembly, that not only holds to the faith and understanding of the man Yahshua but that of his teachings as well, what&#8217;s wrong with that? Disregarding the covenant? Come on now. You just said yourself that the gentiles have nothing to do with the covenant made between Yah and Yisrael. Yah is an El of covenants. He can make covenants with whomever He chooses. He doesn&#8217;t need your permission nor that of those that call themselves jews. If He also wanted to have covenant with the Gentiles then He most assuredly could. Better yet, He even has. He has made a covenant with whoever chooses to do his commands as well as keeps the faith of Yahshua Ha Moshiach.

Jesus himself though confirms that what HE was teachings is found in the Hebrew Scriptures.. not in the writings of the NT... those did not even exist. And the New Covenant in the Hebrew Scriptures is covered in Jeremiah 31.. there is nothing in the testimonies or in the Old Covenant that contradicts the New Covenant being made between the house of Israel, the house of Judah and God.

JESUS CONFIRMED *THAT* COVENANT.... Matthew 5:17-19. He even repeatedly states that it is to the house of Israel that he is calling and not the Gentiles. He appointed Peter to be the one to deal with the Gentiles who GOD WOULD call out to join themselves to the New Covenant. Paul was speaking on his own behalf about the covenant that he made up and he used Jesus, a religious jew hanging on a cross as the symbol for his covenant with death between him (Paul) and the Gentiles.

It would be strange if it were true which it is not. This is lies and deceits spewed by those with an agenda to disqualify Sha&#8217;ul as well as Yahshua as Moshiach. Its not going to happen. Sha&#8217;ul taught those that would believe to follow Torah. No one can replace another without the express will of Yah. It is His choice which He has already made so no matter what anyone says it doesn&#8217;t change a thing. All it does it get those like yourself all twisted up in a rage over nothing.

Truly, it is strange and it is the Truth. Paul told his new followers to shut their mouths.. that being the Jewish who are the Chosen People... the Son of God... the Light to the Gentiles. Paul told the Gentiles through his writings to disregard what they say and dismiss it as commandments of men and traditions of men... replace those things with the image of a religious Jew hanging on a cross...

Come on.. I am not speaking biasedly here. I have nothing to be vain or deceitful about.. I have no agenda except to tell the truth as it is there in front of us.

:sad:*We* were the ones to have inherited the lies. US!!! Because of Paul and the Church. ***CONSIDER*** Jeremiah 16:19 " O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit." I have nothing to gain to tell you the truth. If I lie to you, then I have my own self to lose, and thus I would not do it...lie to anyone, that is. There is nothing bias for me in what I say nor is there any reason for me to deceive anyone. I am just calling it as I am reading it.. I am not even interpreting anything..

 

[IF_u_knew]

What is odd is that you are posting these verses without a clue as to their meaning.

Again.. I am not interpreting anything for you.

Rev 19:10 I fell down before his feet to worship him. He said to me, "Look! Don't do it! I am a fellow bondservant with you and with your brothers who hold the testimony of Yahshua. Worship Elohim, for the testimony of Yahshua is the Spirit of Prophecy."

Psalm 78:5.... that is who the testimony is established with. So if Jesus is allegorical for the spirit of the prophies and this person speaking is the one in whom the testimony is established, then why do you dismiss what you are being told by one in whom the testimony is established with.. that being a Jew, Ben... or any other jewish person that you come across. They are not asking you to worship them, but you have already claimed that it is *you* over them that the testimony is established with and that is replacing yourself as the servant of God.. and God declared His servant is Israel, the People. You are *shutting their mouths* just as you were told to do. YOu are a good disciple of your god, Paul (Acts 28:6). :yes:

To Yah be the glory. For no one rules with Him or beside Him. Praise be to Yah!

This is why one should be on guard and not allow anyone to take their reward.

What reward is it that you are hoping to gain?

Have you lost your ever loving mind? Mal 3:7 has nothing at all to do with the traditions and ordinances of men but rather those of Yah. Col 2 is speaking on the ordinances and traditions of men. Namely those in authority which make a heavy laden yoke to place on the necks of the people. I believe it points toward what the Pharisees have began to compile which today is known by the so called name of the oral torah.

Let's just draw ONE of these so called ordinances that Paul says are the traditions/commands of men... the Sabbath. Paul specifically names this. Is that of man or is that of God? If you say it is of God, then YES... that is what Malachi 3:7 is speaking of that Paul is saying to diregard. If you are disregarding it as a command/tradition of man, then why the hell are you even trying to base your special NT with its new founded religion in the Tanakh that is FULL of the so called commands/traditions of "man".... Start doing something REALLY productive to your belief and try to encourage others to rid their bibles of the OLD traditions and commands of man, give it back to the jewish so they can keep their "corrupt" tranditions/commands in peace... be consistent already... please.

The Hebrew rendering is better suited in understanding what a Hebrew wrote.

oH, but of course! then, please.. again, why do you even need the Tanakh when you are just changing it all with your "newer, better version?"

I am having trouble following such gibberish. Can you break it down in a more correct English for me please. None of it makes any sense. It looks like you got lost in a bunch of self induced fiction as to what you thought or felt Sha&#8217;ul was stating.

I love that you admit it and have even quoted the exact part that you consider gibberish... guess whose writings inspired that gibberish?

You should always and continually worship Yah your Elohim. I do not see Sha&#8217;ul stating any other message.

Certainly though, we do not see him discouraging anyone who *does* choose to view him as a god. Acts 28:6

I Also believe in accepting the covenant and obeying the words of Yah but I also accept the faith and teachings of Yahshua Ha Moshiach as the sacrifice of Yah the Father that who might believe that he is the Moshiach might obtain the Kingdom through righteousness.

Okay. Good luck with that. And may the reward you speak of be well suited to the honesty of your heart. :yes:

 

[AK4]

And this, I had missed as well. The 10 commandments were for the Jews and not the Gentiles. For instance, the Sabbath Day.. that is for the Jews to observe, not the Gentiles. Which by the way, let's consider this, shall we? You make it sound as if Paul was not anti-the 10 commandments.. meaning he did not negate those for the Gentiles, right? This is what it appears you are saying. So.. the 10 commandments - good... and yet, as I have shown above in my reply to the other poster, in Colossians 2, Paul even negates the Sabbath day (see my #5 and go read up on what Paul has to say in Col 2).

Now someone is starting to sound like a traditional christain here who dont know what the sabbath represents or what it means to keep the sabbath spiritually. Do you make only one special during the week to only think of God? Is that what Jesus and the Apostles where teaching? Do you only worship God one day a week in spirit and truth? Come on you know the answer to these questions. You keep the sabbath daily, you die dail to the world, you rest from your work daily and let God take control because He already is in control but the stubborness of most of mankind thinking that they are in charge with there so-called freewill ("sitting in the temple of God, claiming Himself that he is a god") keep working for their own salvation not depending on God at all. Drop the doctrine of free will from your brain and then you will realise what it is to keep the sabbath (well its not ust that simple but its a MAJOR start).

Oh jumped of topic.....but not really. Is God just the God of the jews or of all? Well to argue this point would be pointless because you still believe that only the jews can be Gods chosen when in reality of the Word of God, not the word of Paul, that anyone with a broken and contrite heart, who is meek, who believe and have faith and trust in God----ARE HIS PEOPLE. But dont take my word for it (or Paul or the apostles or Jesus) just look it up in all the OT especially the Psalms and Proverbs.

So, YES.... he was even disregarding the 10 commandments both where the Jewish were concerned and where the Gentiles were concerned (even though the 10 commandments were never meant to be imposed on the Gentiles... confused yet? Good for Paul then.. he succeeded in his mission!).

This is ludacris and almost out right ignorant (sorry couldnt find a nicer word but it is what it is). Where do i start? Oh i wont.

Pr 26:4 - Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Pr 26:5 - Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

What Paul did was make sure to get everyone all nice and confused and then guilt you all for not observing what never applied to you in the first place.. thus, in this way, all blame in your eyes would fall upon the Jews... case and point: YOUR POSTS!!!

Guilt? who has guilt? Guilt for what? Why would i blame the jews for anything? This is all Gods plan and purpose so let me see....hmmm who is responsible.....hmmmm....God Himself. Thats right He is and we are accountable. Do you understand this verse?

Ecc 1:16 It is an experience of EVIL Elohim has given the sons of humanity to humble him by it.

etc etc etc

So who am i holding responsible again? (BTW just as Job was smart enough not to do, i am not foolish enough to accuse God of wrong-doing in what His plan and purpose is)

Again.. if these are all man-made commands and traditions that you do not feel relevant to your life.. FINE!! Quit using what you are claiming is false to support your beliefs. It is hypocritical and quite frankly, only makes you appear as though you are seething with jealousy. Are you, AK4?

Yes yes you got me. oh if only i could be jewish. If only there was some way to be sure that there might be an ounce of jewish blood in one of my many BILLIONS OF ANCESTORS.-----*ahem* Do you see what i am getting at here?

 

[AK4]

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No worries!! Going by Proverbs 2:1-7, I am taught by the "mouth" of God... I just have better clarification by listening to those who He guides me to.. the ones with whom He established the testimonies and put His Law inside of their hearts. Again, I do not suffer from the disease of jealousy that Paul spread into the Gentile Nations against the Jews and therefore, I am able to learn from their wisdom and from their mindset.

• Hilarious. So I guess keeping a phsycial literal day of the week for a Sabbath is worshipping in spirit and truth along with not literally committing adultery is worshipping in spirit and truth is instead of just lusting (lets use a better word---coveting). What can I say then, the blind lead the blind and the both fall into a ditch.

By God and the whole schpill of "He died for them" I am guessing you mean Jesus. True.. I do not believe that God is a man or ever will be a man. There is no purpose for it. I do not think that God is so limited that He needs blood being shed in the literal sense to forgive us/atone for our sins.

WHAT? I tell you it amazes me what people say that contradict all there own beliefs. So do you wanna see your own beliefs just crumble right in front of your eyes SEEING that (according to your own wording) God must’ve limited Himself to sacrifices when He commanded DOZENS OF THEM in YOUR TANAKH. Uh-oh I can really tell you have been taught by ben now.

Oh you do have something right though-----God is not a man. But just as we left off before you still don’t understand what it means by the word God and God is not the name of the Father.

If we do not require such a thing from others, how arrogant are we to say that God does.

Uh we don’t. God did. He made the rules on how the sacrifice of His Son would be. Ge 3:15, Isa 53:10

Besides, obviously the lesson is shown in the story of King David killing the innocent husband to cover his guilt for getting the other man's wife pregnant.. striking similarities...

No its not, not even close. David sinned, he followed the lust of his heart and coveted someones wife and committed adultery by this. Jesus was without sin. Jesus allowed Himself to be killed. He volunteered to die for the world. the Father did not force or make Him.

Joh 10:18 - No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Bad chose of analogies.

and God cursed the house of David because of this... and then God showed great favortism because David's eyes were enlightened by the Law to the Truth. How is it that you miss this?

Try again please.


I do not believe that God needs the blood of an animal or of a literal human sacrifice to forgive us of our sins. That is to show your ignorance of the sacrificial Laws. The only time that blood sacrifices of animals were used as symbolism for atonement was for sins of ignorance. Sins committed against other persons ALWAYS called for more serious consequences along with reconciliation to the person the "sinner" wronged.

God doesn’t need anything, but He did set His own rules and He follows His rules. Your argument is with God not me. If I had more time I would make you do this about your statement of sacrifice of atonement

I do not consider the NT to be the Word of God.

Well what can I say? I pray that one day you will come to the knowledge of truth before the Judgment.

Why not do a play by play synopsis of Acts when you get the chance.. Start a thread for it in fact and let's see how well you can explain all the oddities/strangeness that lies therein. One thing.. since you want to take parts of it as fact.. how about explaining for me what so many others simply try to ignore.. that being acts 28:6... where Paul is called a god and does not deny it. Gotta accept that little tidbit, no?

I just may one day. And I don’t take parts of any of the Word as fact. I take it all as long as it is translated right and not added to or subtracted from the original.

You are grasping for straws in Acts 28. the people thought of Paul that way. Paul did claim this himself. And if you really grasp further for straws then try looking at Moses and Elijah and what the Israelites and jews thought of them (even what God said of them). Geez.

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They are... but then again, I am not so full of my own self that I can not admit they are right in pulling out the commands that *are* indeed inferred in Genesis 9. That you deny it... yet deny the whole of the Law of God to accept a blood covering ... well, what is the point?
Who denies the Law? Not me. The book of Romans explains this very well. I don’t know any better way to explain it to you.




There is nothing wrong with man made traditions.. everyone has them.

Everyone back in the middle ages believed the earth was flat. Doe it make right?

The ones that are in the Tanakh are for the Jewish people who are part of the covenant between God and Israel. If you do not like them.. then why even use the Tanakh as the basis for your beliefs.

I have no problem with them doing them, but problem lies within them towards God if they think those physical rituals well justify and save them. This goes for jews and christains alike. NO PHYSICAL RITUALS SAVES YOU SPIRITUALLY.

THIS IS THE #1 THING THAT I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WITH CHRISTIANITY.. WHETHER IT IS MAINSTREAM OR A PICK AND CHOOSE FORM OF ONE INDIVIDUAL'S IDEA OF CHRISTIANITY. WHY NOT JUST LEAVE THE TANAKH AT THE DOOR, TAKE YOUR "BLESSED" NT AND BE ON YOUR OWN WAY.... else, let go of the jealousy and start understanding why, from the Jewish perspective, they have not accepted Christianity... after all, God is clear that HE established the testimony and the Laws WITH THEM! Personally, I think God knew what He was doing.. why don't you?

God tells us why they haven’t--- He blinded and deafed them so that He may have mercy on all. This Is stated throughout the OT and NT. Please prove me wrong. Good luck trying though.

I would say that we both know that He knows what He is doing but the thing is I actually BELIEVE IT, but I betcha I could show you that you yourself DON’T BELIEVE that He really knows what He is doing.

Are you up for that challenge?

 

[Zardoz]

IF_u_knew,

While I praise and frubal your efforts to enlighten, I fear these efforts may be in vain. I notice that many of the people you dialog with here are on my 'Ignore' list. A great feature, the Ignore list, it's in the User Control Panel, I highly recommend it. I only put one type of people there, those who have posted virulent anti-Semitic posts. They are Jew-haters, in other words, plain and simple. There is no need to talk to such hate mongers, response just gives their views attention and legitimacy they do not deserve. Just a bit of friendly advice.

 

[IF_u_knew]

IF_u_knew,

While I praise and frubal your efforts to enlighten, I fear these efforts may be in vain. I notice that many of the people you dialog with here are on my 'Ignore' list. A great feature, the Ignore list, it's in the User Control Panel, I highly recommend it. I only put one type of people there, those who have posted virulent anti-Semitic posts. They are Jew-haters, in other words, plain and simple. There is no need to talk to such hate mongers, response just gives their views attention and legitimacy they do not deserve. Just a bit of friendly advice.

Thank you for the praise *and* the frubals. I can see why you would put them on ignore and do not blame you one bit. In your position, I would do the same thing. I know, from having observed first hand, what it is on their side that makes them react the way they do and I guess because of that, I do feel great compassion toward them. They are stubborn and frustrating to talk to, sure.. but the power of suggestions they have been under REALLY have been *that* effective.

God used the Children of Israel to harden Pharaoh's heart. In his case, it was a perceived loss of power that made him jealous to know that the Living God was with the People he loved to oppress. Though, here again, God is using His Chosen to draw out the jealousy in the hearts of those responding, there are a few on here that have given me reason to consider that it isn't power they are afraid of losing.. perhaps more along the lines of identity (security blankets, so to speak). That is different than lust for power. Make sense?

Consider this: some of them are being drawn toward the Jewish.. some know that the key to what it is they are looking for is found in the Jews, they just are not aware of it yet.. the jealousy stands in the way of their being able to relate so that they can finally "see."

 

[AK4]

Wow!!!

Jealousy, hatred, and all the other stuff toward people i dont know and dont really care about personally cus they dont really affect my life directly. I might well be anti-eskimo to huh? How about anti-aboriginees too! If i believed in aliens i would anti alien too. Maybe they are the "chosen" people.

Who cares. All the jealousy and hatred is obsurd. The same argument jews use to say christains are jealous and hatred of is the same argument christains say about jews.

Its all irrelevant in Gods eyes anyway. Truly only He knows who truly is His. Even from what i percieve i know of His Word i am humble enough to not be so arrogant to go taunting that I am one His chosen. I very well may be or may be not. But to FOOLISH enough to boast and brag and throw it someone elses face is the EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT THE WORD SAYS GOD IS AFTER.

 

[IF_u_knew]

Wow!!!

Jealousy, hatred, and all the other stuff toward people i dont know and dont really care about personally cus they dont really affect my life directly. I might well be anti-eskimo to huh? How about anti-aboriginees too! If i believed in aliens i would anti alien too.

No... I would not at all say that you are jealous of eskimos or aliens. Only those that are Jewish.

Maybe they are the "chosen" people.

It is not a matter of "maybe".... they are. :yes: What you are failing to see here is the lovely remnant that IS caring enough to even come to us to help us get untagled from the lies that we have been under.

You should go back through these threads and read how it is you talk to Ben. I consider us all *very* blessed to have someone that would give us such thought provoking posts and yet you are never anything but rude, haughty, and dismissive. There is not a doubt in my mind, as I have stated before, that if Jesus *could* come back to life and he decided to post on this forum, hardly any of you would know it was him. You would not treat him any differently than you are treating other Jews who have tried to tell you the Truth.

Its all irrelevant in Gods eyes anyway.

I do not believe this at all. Read Numbers 23-24.

Yes yes you got me. oh if only i could be jewish. If only there was some way to be sure that there might be an ounce of jewish blood in one of my many BILLIONS OF ANCESTORS.-----*ahem* Do you see what i am getting at here?

Yes. One is a Jew if they are descended from a Jewish mother, else they have to convert. That is why I find it so strange all this jealousy you insist to hold on to. You obviously are very drawn to them.. but instead of seeing how it is that you relate, you judge what those before them have done.. they are not their ancestors and even still... BECAUSE of those who had gone before, we have a path to walk. Their "failures" are no longer their failures because of those, like myself, who see the valuable lessons contained therein...

the only failures here are those who continue to judge rather than to look at how, perhaps, there is something we can relate to in there... *AHEM* ... Christianity? The NT ? Believing Paul who was so SET on divorcing Israel from God? well, I can proudly say, I never bought into Paul's teaching, but I know firsthand 1) how when it is hammered into one's head since childhood, his (Paul's) jealousy and hate DOES become embedded into the minds even those who normally are sensitive and caring.. (it is called brainwashing) 2) how cruel those who do embrace Paul's teachings are to those of us (whether Jewish or not) who have questioned and then rejected the hateful message and 3) I have seen the potential for some serious damage to be done to the the Jewish People if the Truth is not recognized.. after all, there are more Christians than are Jews. And having grown up in Christianity, I have no problem to expose it as a religion that on one side of their mouth, they will praise Israel and the Jews and yet out of the other side of their mouth, they are talking about how they can not wait for their god to return and wipe out the "whore"... the "beast."


I actually have more hope those of your type who do not hide their jealousy... and I have added hope with you because I truly DO perceive you as one who is only showing the jealousy because it has been embedded in you. Those who continue to not recognize the reason they are drawn to the Jewish and desperately try to grasp onto a religion they KNOW (you yourself have admitted) is not right... well, how is that different from the Israel of Ezekiel 16 that you want to judge so negatively? You should have nothing but THANKS in your heart to them that you, at this time, have the opportunity to see the Truth because of the honesty in which the Tanakh is written. Open your eyes already and see that it is truth! You already know something is wrong with Christianity... it is the WHOLE of the religion, AK4.

Isaiah 56 talks about the Eunuchs.. so it is not unreasonable that many people do have some of the bloodline that was scattered into the world; but it does not make any of us Jewish until we convert to Judaism. Is there shame to humble oneself to join to the People of God?

God tells us why they haven&#8217;t--- He blinded and deafed them so that He may have mercy on all. This Is stated throughout the OT and NT. Please prove me wrong. Good luck trying though.

I would say that we both know that He knows what He is doing but the thing is I actually BELIEVE IT, but I betcha I could show you that you yourself DON&#8217;T BELIEVE that He really knows what He is doing.

Are you up for that challenge?

Isaiah 42-45; Isaiah 48 There is a reason many were blind and deaf. There is a parable of Jesus healing a blind man and he explicitly states it has NOTHING to do with sin, but rather the reason is so that the blind man will know without out a doubt that there are no other gods but the God of Israel (think "healing of the blind man" as speaking allegorically). This happened to me as well and when my eyes were opened, there was nothing left of doubt of who it is God is with. Isaiah 8:8 (the child named Immanuel is Judah.. aka the Jewish.. so it is only reasonable to know that where one should join if they feel that calling is not Christianity, but Judaism). Why is it you keep your eyes shut so tight to the Truth?


And no AK4, I will state it adamently: you do not believe God knows what He is doing. I know this because you 100% find Psalm 78:5 irrelevant.

 

[AK4]

No... I would not at all say that you are jealous of eskimos or aliens. Only those that are Jewish.

i will no longer state how i feel about anyone anymore. If it makes you or anyone else feel better or haughty or whatever to accuse me of something that i am not fine. I dont care. For me to have hate or have jealousy over the "jews" is like saying i hate white people also even though i have some of that blood in me and BTW even though my mother and father are black but my grandfather was mixed with black and white----its ludacris and ridiculous these accusatons and there is no racist bone in my body

It is not a matter of "maybe".... they are. :yes:

Little do you understand, everyone will eventually be the "chosen" of God.

to help us get untagled from the lies that we have been under.

To jump from one lie to another is not getting out of the darkness. And that is what all these religions out there are DARKNESS AND LIES.

You should go back through these threads and read how it is you talk to Ben. I consider us all *very* blessed to have someone that would give us such thought provoking posts and yet you are never anything but rude, haughty, and dismissive.

Hardly thought provoking or blessed. Its just nonsense when you put scripture to his posts. Its the Word of God that you are calling rude, haughty and dismissive. Just as the pharisees and scribes thought of Jesus' words when He spoke with authority to them.

There is not a doubt in my mind, as I have stated before, that if Jesus *could* come back to life and he decided to post on this forum, hardly any of you would know it was him. You would not treat him any differently than you are treating other Jews who have tried to tell you the Truth.

Laughable at least for me. But i do agree with you if you also apply this same thing to yourself and Jesus was saying the same things i and the scriptures have been saying.

I do not believe this at all. Read Numbers 23-24.

Try reading the whole Word of God and see if it is so.

You obviously are very drawn to them..

Drawn to them? LOL Maybe exposing lies or exposing those who contradict. And with that it dont matter what religion or creed/breed you claim to be from.

you judge what those before them have done.. they are not their ancestors and even still... BECAUSE of those who had gone before, we have a path to walk.

I dont judge them for other actions. If so then i want reperation money for the slavery of black people hundreds of years ago. I dont care about any of that crap. The only thing is there history was written FOR OUR ADMONITION, as a example, etc etc. of pretty much what happens to all of those God is not only calling, but actually choosing. If one is chosen they should see parallels of their life in the OT.

The NT ? Believing Paul who was so SET on divorcing Israel from God?

Show me a scripture where Paul says God had divorced Israel. Show me. you cant. You are no better than those in christainity who parrot such nonsense.

1) how when it is hammered into one's head since childhood, his (Paul's) jealousy and hate DOES become embedded into the minds even those who normally are sensitive and caring

It was never really hammered into my head because i always had that with all the religions in the world we are being told the full truth and over the years i have realised how much of this world IS A LIE, not just religions.

2) how cruel those who do embrace Paul's teachings are to those of us (whether Jewish or not) who have questioned and then rejected the hateful message

Its sad to that you see a hateful message in the wonderful message of God to all the habitants of the world. Truly sad. (Isa 30:12)

3) have no problem to expose it as a religion that on one side of their mouth, they will praise Israel and the Jews and yet out of the other side of their mouth, they are talking about how they can not wait for their god to return and wipe out the "whore"... the "beast."

Yup i agree. These people are called christain zionists which is an oxymoron in itself. besides do you even know who the whore and beast are? Oh its not just the judaism "church", traditional christainity is it too. too big of a subject for now though.

I actually have more hope those of your type

My type are rare and far in-between believe me on this.

and I have added hope with you because I truly DO perceive you as one who is only showing the jealousy because it has been embedded in you. Those who continue to not recognize the reason they are drawn to the Jewish

Not drawn to the jewish or anyone. i am to overcome this world as Jesus did and He and His God (you know the Father) is the only ones i am drawn (dragged) Joh 6:44) to

Open your eyes already and see that it is truth! You already know something is wrong with Christianity... it is the WHOLE of the religion, AK4.

Apparently you havent seen yet that its not just tradtional christainity but all religion. Christainity will be held more responsible, then the maybe judaism next who will recieve more severe chastisement in the Judgment because if anything they hold were given more truth than any other religion but they perversed and despised it.

so it is not unreasonable that many people do have some of the bloodline that was scattered into the world; but it does not make any of us Jewish until we convert to Judaism. Is there shame to humble oneself to join to the People of God?

Right and any "jewish" person by blood who dont convert to judaism is no longer a jew. Come on now.

And no AK4, I will state it adamently: you do not believe God knows what He is doing. I know this because you 100% find Psalm 78:5 irrelevant

Nothing is irrelevant in His Word. Apparently God hasnt opened up the scriptures to you to see what all those represent.

Till next time----oh BTW, your hold on the the "jews" and judaism IS YOUR mark of the beast that is in your forehead and sworn by with your right hand....(hint hint)
You went from one babylon to another.

Re 18:4 - And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

 

[IF_u_knew]

With what you have said here, it would not be to my benefit to continue discussing this. You have made your bed to your liking and seem very content this time to actually lie down in it. I concede.

 

[AK4]

With what you have said here, it would not be to my benefit to continue discussing this. You have made your bed to your liking and seem very content this time to actually lie down in it. I concede.

Thats ashame. Although it may seem i am coming off very strong and forceful, i am not. Your beliefs are yours and mine are mine (actually not mine but as scripture states it is Christs faith (it is not mine) that i have).

I enjoy our debates. Although for some reason you still lump me in with regular tradtional mainstream christainity and what they believe, do, and feel it would be as if i stereotyped you into all of what judaism does including all the beliefs, traditions and feelings that are in their precious talmud. Would that be fair to you if i did that? :no:

This what the mark of the beast is---swearing an oath (maybe not just literally (mark on the hand), but also mentally (mark in the forehead) to different beliefs and traditions of man that are not the True Words or teachings of Christ and God. Atheists have their mark, Christains have theirs, Jews theirs, muslims theirs, hindus,wiccans satanists, workaholics etc, etc, etc, have theirs all the way to those who make an idol of the heart thier god and this could be something as simple as just a hobby or sport and even some make thier church affiliation their mark. It applies to anyone who "left their first (paramount/most important of all) love) which is supposed to be Christ which honours God the Father.

Here are some idols of the heart/mark of the beasts that are out there that many probably dont even recognise as one:

Evironmentalism, belief in alienism, evolutionism, seventh day adventists types and other ritual types, religious hobbyists, drug addicts, alcoholics, people who are so steep in politics more than God, etc, etc. Idols of the heart/mark of the beast can be some of the most simplist things---that why its called "a strong delusion" and deciet of the devil because most wont even recognise it.

Gods Word calls man a beast. Do you get that? Man is the beast. Hence all the stuff mankind can come up with that is not true to the Word of God makes up that mark.

Well i could go on and on but i wont. At least one thing good did come out of this---you have learned the unnecessariness of spelling God, G.d.

 

[gwk230]

Paul was teaching them to disregard the Torah... &#8230;despite the hatred of Paul and his followers.

No Sha&#8217;ul was teaching them to keep Torah&#8230;&#8230; Sha&#8216;ul, and those that was taught by him, had much love for all of Yah&#8216;s creation.

What was the good news of Jesus, according to you?

As according to what is written, as I do not interpret as some do. The good news was that Yahshua is &#8220;THE&#8221; Moshiach and is used for the salvation of all that will obey the word of Yah and believe on him.

And take another look at history there, for it seems you have overlooked much.. whether intentionally or out of ignorance.. it is really hard to say at this point.

No, history is very clear on how the non-believing so called jews treated those Hebrew Yisraelites that not only were counted as blameless by the standards of Torah as well as held the belief and faith of Yahshua Ha Moshiach. I don&#8217;t recall anything written scripturally nor secularly of those of the faith ever treating the non-believers as they were treated. If you have proof to the contrary then I invite you to post as such with their sources.

You have been shown not only by myself, but you have been shown a great deal more by Ben... what more do you need? You are disregarding the testimony of one in whom the testimony was established (psa 78:5)... what could I say that would make any difference to you?

Though I thoroughly appreciate all that you have attempted to offer there has been anything but scriptural foundation or substance to those things you have offered thus far.

Psa 78:1 Listen, my people, to my teaching; turn your ears to the words from my mouth.
Psa 78:2 I will speak to you in parables and explain mysteries from days of old.
Psa 78:3 The things which we have heard and known, and which our fathers told us
Psa 78:4 we will not hide from their descendants; we will tell the generation to come the praises of Yah and his strength, the wonders that he has performed.
Psa 78:5 He raised up a testimony in Ya'akov and established a Torah in Yisra'el. He commanded our ancestors to make this known to their sons,
Psa 78:6 so that the next generation would know it, the sons not yet born, who would themselves arise and tell their own sons,
Psa 78:7 who could then put their confidence in Elohim, not forgetting Elohim's deeds, but obeying his mitzvot.
Psa 78:8 Then they would not be like their ancestors, a stubborn, rebellious generation, a generation with unprepared hearts, with spirits unfaithful to Elohim.

What has this to do with a Gentile accepting and doing the Torah? Nothing whatsoever. Again you fail to show anything of substance, or correct meaning, as to the context of the questions at hand.

So, YOU are right and the ones (the Jews) who God said he would establish the testimony and the Law with are wrong...

No. Those that Yah established his covenant with, if righteous, would have a correct understanding of what the testimony was that is shown by the history of the Hebrew Yisraelite nation. They would also have a correct understanding of Torah without the thoughts and feelings of man with his twisted and uncircumcised mind.

in essence, you are saying that God was wrong and made a mistake. I do not see that at all... I see that God did not make a mistake and that you are just making up your own rules in your delusional pick and choose theology as you go.

Yah makes no mistakes but rather man does. Yisrael had so much given unto them but as it is written to those that are given much there is much required. Yisrael has fallen short each and every time. But Yah will not break His promise. Yisrael are His people and they are those that obey Him whether Hebrew Yisraelite or not. These are not my own rules but those of Yah. There is no replacement theology here. It is as it has always been. The promise is to all that will hear and obey.

I do not believe you when you say that you have read the writings of Paul.

It&#8217;s o.k. I do understand your confusion.

It is not proved to me when you say things such as "he taught them to observe the Torah" when clearly, as I have showed, he did not teach anyone any such thing. He only pretended to support it when it suited him.

You haven&#8217;t shown anything in the least. What is clear is that there is no way in all of Yah&#8216;s creation that the Ruach Ha Chodesh would ever consider doing works within the likes of one that only pretended. To say so would be the same as saying that Moshe only pretended. Those works done through Sha&#8217;ul has been written by others other than Sha&#8217;ul himself.

Anyway... sorry that you wasted your time in typing out all these posts...

Believe me that it was no waist of time. I live to shed light on those that need it. Praise Yah!!!!!!!

Explain how you think that Paul was wise to instruct Gentiles to disregard what it is that is in the Torah and the testimonies. God is clear even in Ezekiel that to enter into His Sanctuary, the covenant, it is not ONLY the circumcision of the heart that counts... one MUST ALSO BE circumcised in the flesh as well. The New Covenant that is laid out in Jeremiah 31 has not abolished anything that was laid out in the Old covenant... only that instead of it being written in stone, it is written on the heart. All else still stands. For Gentiles to be a part of the covenant between Israel and God, they still must join as it is laid out by God and not by Paul.

Well I might be mistaken but last time I looked the Temple wasn&#8217;t standing so there is no sanctuary to enter. Any who, I read&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.

Eze 44:9 Thus says YAH Elohim, No foreigner, uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any foreigners who are among the children of Yisra'el.

Which all has to do with the sanctuary but I see nothing to do with one having to circumcise his foreskin of flesh to be able to enter the kingdom or being allowed to enjoy eternal life. One just might not be able to enter into the sanctuary until he has been circumcised. This analogy, of course, is only for the Gentiles. The covenant of the circumcision was made with Abraham and his seed.

Furthermore&#8230;&#8230;..

1Co 15:50 Now I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood can't inherit the Kingdom of Elohim; neither does corruption inherit incorruption.

For what &#8220;foreskin of flesh&#8221; would one circumcise in order to enter into the kingdom? There was and is no need for a Gentile to be circumcised of the flesh unless he be born in a Hebrew Yisraelites house or was purchased by one. This is in no way keeping a Gentile from accepting and doing the Torah.

The Church and most Christians do consider themselves having replaced the Jewish People in their covenant with God. To say that you can not see what all is changed in their views, all the disregarding of the Torah and their misunderstanding of the testimonies... a lot of this *does* fall on Paul. I have given you examples and you dismiss them only proving my point.

I dismiss them for they have no scriptural bases. Sha&#8217;ul is blameless from what those that distorted his meaning have ran with to teach others for the last 2,000 years. Just as those that have miss taught the Torah, one couldn&#8217;t blame Moshe.

 

[gwk230]

Who is the "we" here...

We are a group of individuals that practice Sinaiticism.

and what are the Holy Days according to you?

Again, according to what is written in Torah, read Lev 23.

Ben is Jewish though... Psalm 78:5... so, though I can see you disregarding what it is I say, why are you so quick to assume that you are right over him and others who are Jewish. Do you think there was a mistake made on the part of God when He established the testimonies and the Law in the Jewish People? Or even further, do you think He lied and really psalm 78:5 should have been your name? There is nothing wrong to read and have a personal view of the Tanakh on your own, but to just disregard those who God said we were to pay attention is to disregard the Word of God... and Paul did support this repeatedly as is shown in such statements as "shut their mouths" <----- speaking of the Jewish People. Does this not ring off alarm bells in your head when, AGAIN, God said He established the Word with *them*.. the Jews?

Just because someone professes to be a Hebrew Yisraelite doesn&#8217;t mean much to me. I have little time for such which only by their words have nothing to show for it. There have been many so called Hebrew Yisraelites that have got it wrong and paid dearly for it. Even the sons of a Cohen, (high priest) have lost their lives just for getting it wrong. I am ready to be shown by the correct and righteous actions by others and not just hear their wide sweeping proclamations of self-righteousness.

Yah never intended us to listen to those that followed after the traditions of men. We are to obey Him who made us and not those who entertain us.

He REPEATEDLY called what is written in the Torah, the commands and traditions of men.

Ludicrous.

Paul repeatedly implies that Jesus is God

If he did it would have only been in the same form as we are all gods. Otherwise it didn&#8217;t happen.

and that is the Saviour

He is a savior as he was appointed to do so by Yah. If not by the will of Yah then he wouldn&#8217;t be able to save anyone. Yah is the only one who can save but Yah speaks the words and His words do not return to him empty. Yahshua is fulfilling His word by Yah&#8217;s command. Yah appointed Yahshua to be a savior. Its not hard. Just like when you hire a builder to build your house. You say to others that you built your house but you gave the word to others to do the work when you in fact sit back and did no work at all. Yah&#8217;s servants do his work for him.

and calls him Lord when God is clear in Isaiah that HIS name is LORD, that He is the ONLY Saviour (there is no other), and that He alone is God.. there was not one formed before Him and neither would there be after...

Sha&#8217;ul called him Master, as in the Master Teacher in which he was. The name of the Most High is Yah. Yah ached, Yah is one. No one rules with Him or beside Him. He made all things and there is nothing above Him but all things are beneath Him. This is the culture in which I live. Yahshua himself was nothing more than flesh and blood until he was raised on the third day.

not to mention it repeatedly states throughout the Tanakh that God *is* not a man. To say that He was, is, or will be is to blatantly ignore the Truth of God's Word.

No argument here. Sha&#8217;ul never said he was but as on the day of Yahshua&#8217;s purification and the Malach came down and abode, or rather possessed, Yahshua brought the prophecy into being , Emanuel. (Elohim is with us.)

Also, the Son of God is not only Jesus... Exodus 4:22,23 and Hosea 11:1 say who it is that is declared by God as His firstborn.

I agree with that statement pertaining to the living but Yahshua is the first born from the dead. The only begotten of the dead.

Now... when you ignore those who are Jewish and trying to teach you, such as Ben or others, then how are you going to say that you would have paid any attention to Jesus who would not have been in disagreement with what they are telling you? You *are* denying the Son of God when you deny ANY of the Chosen of God, the People of Israel.

I have already answered this as well. I have only one Master Teacher.

Jesus himself though confirms that what HE was teachings is found in the Hebrew Scriptures.. not in the writings of the NT... those did not even exist. And the New Covenant in the Hebrew Scriptures is covered in Jeremiah 31.. there is nothing in the testimonies or in the Old Covenant that contradicts the New Covenant being made between the house of Israel, the house of Judah and God.

And I completely agree. Sha&#8217;ul, nor any of the other apostles, said otherwise.

JESUS CONFIRMED *THAT* COVENANT.... Matthew 5:17-19. He even repeatedly states that it is to the house of Israel that he is calling and not the Gentiles.

Yes, the lost sheep of Yisrael. That would also incorporate those that accept and obey his Fathers commandments per Is 56. As far as repeatedly, which would mean more than a couple of times, I only see it spoken twice. Once to those who he sent out to preach of the kingdom at hand and once more to the Canaanite woman. Lest we forget though he did afterwards command his disciples to&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..

Mat 28:18 Yahshua came and talked with them. He said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Mat 28:19 Therefore, go and make people from all nations into talmidim, immersing them into the reality of the Father, the Son,
Mat 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember! I will be with you always, yes, even until the end of the age."

Now who was the lost sheep? We find them in Jer 50:6.&#8230;&#8230;..

Jer 50:6 My people have been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray; they have turned them away on the mountains; they have gone from mountain to hill; they have forgotten their resting place.

Those that follow after the traditions of men distort and malign the true word of Yah.

He appointed Peter to be the one to deal with the Gentiles who GOD WOULD call out to join themselves to the New Covenant. Paul was speaking on his own behalf about the covenant that he made up and he used Jesus, a religious jew hanging on a cross as the symbol for his covenant with death between him (Paul) and the Gentiles.

So you call the Ruach Ha Chodesh a liar then&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;

Act 13:2 As they served YAH and fasted, the Ruach Ha Chodesh said, "Separate Barnabas and Sha'ul for me, for the work to which I have called them."

Truly, it is strange and it is the Truth. Paul told his new followers to shut their mouths.. that being the Jewish who are the Chosen People... the Son of God... the Light to the Gentiles. Paul told the Gentiles through his writings to disregard what they say and dismiss it as commandments of men and traditions of men... replace those things with the image of a religious Jew hanging on a cross...

Sha&#8217;ul is a Hebrew Yisraelite in his own right raised a Pharisee. And just as he did to his own blood I would also to any that profess lies and traditions of men over that of the true word of Yah. Yes, yes we all know the analogy of the dead jew on a stick routine. It doesn&#8217;t work with me. No one said to replace a thing. Stop ad-libbing.

 

[gwk230]

Come on.. I am not speaking biasedly here. I have nothing to be vain or deceitful about.. I have no agenda except to tell the truth as it is there in front of us.

LOL!!!!!!!!

*We* were the ones to have inherited the lies. US!!! Because of Paul and the Church.

Rubbish. Maybe because of the so called early church fathers like Ignatius, Dionysius, Irenaeus, Tertullian and Origen just to name a few or maybe for the likes of Constantine and the so called counsel he set up around 325 CE. The distortions of those at the so called counsel of Nicaea did more to try and bury the truth than anyone or thing. Allowing the pagan practices of Ishtar and polluting that most Holy day, the seventh day, the Shabbat.

***CONSIDER*** Jeremiah 16:19 " O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit." I have nothing to gain to tell you the truth. If I lie to you, then I have my own self to lose, and thus I would not do it...lie to anyone, that is. There is nothing bias for me in what I say nor is there any reason for me to deceive anyone. I am just calling it as I am reading it.. I am not even interpreting anything..

Some Gentiles have learned the truth though and is no longer among those who are speaking in Jer 16:19..

I don&#8217;t doubt that you sincerely believe some of what you have stated but it is no different to me then that of a Sunday baptist preacher. It has no bearing, bases to the true word of Elohim.

Again.. I am not interpreting anything for you.

You have done nothing but. All you have posted has been nothing but the thoughts and feelings of men and not that of Yah. I don&#8217;t really blame you. No offence but you really do not know what you are doing and therefore can&#8216;t really be blamed for your actions. I do tell you though that what you have expressed here to me thus far has been riddled with lie after lie and has been used by those son of beliel for many, many centuries to distort the true word and faith.

Quote:
Rev 19:10 I fell down before his feet to worship him. He said to me, "Look! Don't do it! I am a fellow bondservant with you and with your brothers who hold the testimony of Yahshua. Worship Elohim, for the testimony of Yahshua is the Spirit of Prophecy."

Psalm 78:5.... that is who the testimony is established with. So if Jesus is allegorical for the spirit of the prophies and this person speaking is the one in whom the testimony is established, then why do you dismiss what you are being told by one in whom the testimony is established with.. that being a Jew, Ben... or any other jewish person that you come across. They are not asking you to worship them, but you have already claimed that it is *you* over them that the testimony is established with and that is replacing yourself as the servant of God.. and God declared His servant is Israel, the People. You are *shutting their mouths* just as you were told to do. YOu are a good disciple of your god, Paul (Acts 28:6).

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!

That was so funny. Ignorant people looking for signs. I kinda like the Bill Engvall conclusion on signs. Here&#8217;s yours. LOL!!!!!!!

Testimony?

A testimony is a witness. It is of things past. Of things that have occurred. Yes it was established in Yisrael by what is written about them. The entire bible is a Testimony of the Hebrew Yisraelites. The covenant is found within that testimony. And as far as listening to anyone who calls themselves a Hebrew Yisraelite, I have already exhausted the answer to this issue and will not expound on it any further for what I have had to say on the matter is more than sufficient.

What reward is it that you are hoping to gain?

Eternal Life.

Let's just draw ONE of these so called ordinances that Paul says are the traditions/commands of men.... the Sabbath. Paul specifically names this. Is that of man or is that of God? If you say it is of God, then YES... that is what Malachi 3:7 is speaking of that Paul is saying to diregard. If you are disregarding it as a command/tradition of man, then why the hell are you even trying to base your special NT with its new founded religion in the Tanakh that is FULL of the so called commands/traditions of "man".... Start doing something REALLY productive to your belief and try to encourage others to rid their bibles of the OLD traditions and commands of man, give it back to the jewish so they can keep their "corrupt" tranditions/commands in peace... be consistent already... please.

LOL, Why do you not post the book, chapter and verse of such claim? I can make all kinds of claims and not post the source. I could just as easily state that Yahshua said that IF_u_knew was the daughter of Helel. Yes, he even specifically named you. The rest of your paragraph was little more than emotional vanity.

oH, but of course! then, please.. again, why do you even need the Tanakh when you are just changing it all with your "newer, better version?"

Because it was all written by Hebrews, about Hebrews and for Hebrews. Why not read it from a Hebrew perspective? Makes more since than from the Greek pagan society.

I love that you admit it and have even quoted the exact part that you consider gibberish... guess whose writings inspired that gibberish?

Typical, I didn&#8217;t think you would answer with any substance.. Just more hate and lies.

Certainly though, we do not see him discouraging anyone who *does* choose to view him as a god. Acts 28:6

What an empty statement. He may not have even knew what the others were thinking. He didn&#8217;t himself write this account. Where do you people come up with all this childish gibberish?

Okay. Good luck with that. And may the reward you speak of be well suited to the honesty of your heart.

No thanks on the so called luck part. I don&#8217;t observe that which was established with that pagan deity of the goddess of fortuna with her wheel of fortune. I can only say that I have been very well blessed in the truth of Yah my Elohim and I hope that what you say is correct. I pray that He does look on the sincerity and honesty of my mind and knows that all He will find continually is Him.

All praise and glory to the Most High Yah my Elohim!!!!!!!!

HalleluYAH!!!!!!!

 

[Ben Masada]

If the Moshiach is perfect by the standards of the Torah then by what measure does the Moshiach need the Torah? If Moshiach is to make all righteous then Torah would then be accomplished and there would be no more need for it because there is no more sin, correct? Then The goal and aim for the Torah is the Moshiach.

Who said that the Moshiach is perfect? If we were perfect we would not be chastised from time to time with exiles besides the consequences of the law of cause and effect.

Theirs were their own deaths and for their own purposes but Yahshua’s death had a specific purpose by the will of Yah. He was Yah’s sacrifice.

This is pure Pauline rhetoric. Why only the death of Yeshua had a specific purpose, because Paul said so? Can't you be a little more original?

Ben, whether you think you need it or not. If your fishing for info, why don’t you just do us all a great service and stop doing yourself such a large disservice and just simply ask the question and one might just simply answer you. Its not that hard Ben.

We are talking about Jewish issues. Why should I ask Christians to teach me Judaism? Besides the fact that I can think, what on earth can a Christian teach a Jew about Judaism?

I know that there are those who believe such nonsense but I am not one of them. Yahshua most definitely, and most certainly, had an earthly father.

A biological father at that, and don't you forget it!

Ben, why are you quoting Matt 5:19 when we all know that this has nothing to do with the so called “Traditions of Man” Yahshua confirmed those nasty little traditions of men when he addressed those who practiced them.

Jesus did not confirm traditions of men but the Law and the Prophets.

Mar 7:5 The Pharisees and the scribes asked him, "Why don't your disciples walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat their bread with unwashed hands?"

This only shows that we are conscientious about our health, as it has been proved that unwashed hands are loaded with germs that threaten anyone's health.

Mar 7:6 He answered them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, 'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

This did not come from Jesus, because it sounds Pauline rhetoric. Paul had a grudge against the Jewish authorities because they had banned him from Israel and never allowed him to build a church in Israeli soil.

Mar 7:8 "For you set aside the commandment of Elohim, and hold tightly to the tradition of men--the washing of pitchers and cups, and you do many other such things."

The only former Jew who set aside the commendments of Elohim was Paul, who abolished them on the cross. (Ephe. 2:15)

So Ben, you go ahead and stick to your traditions and I’ll stick to those given at Sinai.

You have no idea how we stick to the Law given at Sinai!

Fairy tale? Hey, whatever makes your boat float Ben. I only have what is written by Matthew, Mark and Luke and you have little more than your word. I’ll stick with them.

Those gospels could have never been written by Jews. They were written by Hellenistic Gentiles disciples of Paul. Jews would not write so much unJewish stuff.

Yes Ps 147:19-20 does state this but it is in no way implying that just because a group of people were chosen to make a covenant with Yah, as was Adam, Noach, Abraham, David etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. that it was just for them and no one else could be a part of it? You know I’m going to throw a bunch of scripture at you like a wall of fire if you say yes.

Who ever said here that God's Word being entrusted to us was for us only? The purpose was for us to reveal it to the world. No wonder Isaiah said that we have been assigned as light unto the nations.

Just a little tid-bit comes to mind in Isaiah 56 if I’m not mistaken.

Isaiah 56, especially 1-8 is an invitation to you and the other Gentiles to Join God's People by conversion.

Isa 56:6 Also the foreigners who join themselves to YAH, to minister to him, and to love the name of YAH, to be his servants, everyone who keeps the Sabbath from profaning it, and holds fast my covenant;

So, why don't you do just that instead of claiming part with God's Sinaitic Covenant but loaded with Christian or Hellenistic ideas? You can't bake your cake and eat it too!

Isa 56:7 even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted on my altar; for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.

But without bringing along the heresies of other religions.

Isa 56:8 YAH Elohim, who gathers the outcasts of Yisra'el, says, Yet will I gather [others] to him, besides his own who are gathered.

But through conversion to Judaism.

Who said anything about the lost ten tribes? Come on man pay attention. We know that he was speaking only of those poor individuals that were lost by all the confusion set forth by those that held those traditions of men over that of the word of Yah. These poor people haven’t a clue just how simplistic the word is without all that mess that those with power added which made such a heavy laden yoke around their necks. He exposed all that nastiness. He was the first and only teacher of Torah that has ever been raised up since the Torah was first given.

Your darts against the Jewish People by referring to "traditions of men" are darts of jealousy. They are but fences built around the commandments with the purpose to enhance observance of the Law. But alas! You don't understand these things!

 

[Ben Masada]

Yah gave those commands and no other. For anyone to say otherwise shows brain damage.

When you personalize God with the giving of those commands, you only project an anthropomorphic idea of God. This is just a longer word for idolatry.

Sha’ul ever taught the Hebrews not to circumcise. That’s total swine sewage.

Read Acts 21:21. He could at least have said, "You don't believe that crap, do you?" He kept silence and accepted a plan to camouflage himself as an observer of the Law in the Temple by way of fulfilling a vow that he had not made. But he could not make a mockery of God, because he was arrested by Jews from Asia who identified him. (Acts 21:27,28)

I really have little to no knowledge of the so called Greek Mythology and wouldn’t begin to acknowledge what you are inferring. If by a little educated deduction that it have anything to do that some do as others do so there for they are the same is not going to work.

Where are we to hear of children being born from gods with humans? You should read a little about Greek Mythology.

As I have only used what is written, and have not used any so called logic as deducing anything that was written by my own thoughts and feelings through some dreamed up commentary, it is clear to one who only reads the text, in its correct context, that what you have so stated is false and misleading. It goes against all other writings of text through out the scriptures.

One thing is to say something. Another much different is to prove what you say. You haven't proved yet that anything I say here is against the Scriptures. On the contrary, the whole NT is against the Scriptures that Jesus used to handle.

What falsehoods have I spoken of Yahshua Ha Moshiach?

That he was the Messiah when he never claimed to be the one.

How have I implied that Yahshua was like a Greek demigod?

Does it mean you admit that he was a biological son of Joseph's?

Where is she having her reputation mudded? Where by the standard of Torah has she sinned? She had laid with no man. You have no proof. The seed that she received was from the Ruach Ha Chodesh that came from David himself. It was placed in her without any carnal and fleshly act that you are so fixated on. She had done no wrong as was blameless. If anyone has mudded her reputation then it is you by insinuating that what had happened was by the hand of a man. How dare you.

Great! So, why did you say you don't know anything about Greek Mythology? This last paragraph of yours above is pure Greek Mythology. Jesus was Jewish and there is no such a thing in Judaism, which was his Faith.

 

[Ben Masada]

Act 9:10 Now there was a certain disciple at Damascus named Chananyah. The Master said to him in a vision, "Chananyah!" He said, "Behold, it's me, Master."
Act 9:11 The Master said to him, "Arise, and go to the street which is called Straight, and inquire in the house of Judah for one named Sha'ul, a man of Tarsus. For behold, he is praying,
Act 9:12 and in a vision he has seen a man named Chananyah coming in, and laying his hands on him, that he might receive his sight."
Act 9:13 But Chananyah answered, "Master, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he did to your holy ones at Yerushalayim.
Act 9:14 Here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name."
Act 9:15 But the Master said to him, "Go your way, for he is my chosen vessel to bear my name before the nations and kings, and the children of Yisra'el.
Act 9:16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for my name's sake."
Act 9:17 Chananyah departed, and entered into the house. Laying his hands on him, he said, "Brother Sha'ul, the Master, who appeared to you on the road by which you came, has sent me, that you may receive your sight, and be filled with the Holy Spirit."
Act 9:18 Immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he received his sight. He arose and was purified.

All Luke poppycock with the purpose to present Paul, his master as legitimate. This is all part of the 80 percent of interpolations into the NT.


Act 9:28 He was with them entering into Yerushalayim,
Act 9:29 preaching boldly in the name of YAH. He spoke and disputed against the Hellenists, but they were seeking to kill him.
Act 9:30 When the brothers knew it, they brought him down to Caesarea, and sent him off to Tarsus.

Do you know why the local Jews wanted to kill him? Because he was preaching apostasy in Jerusalem: That Jesus was the Messiah, the son of God, and that he had resurrected. Even the Apostles were surprised at his strange gospel. Paul should be grateful to the Nazarenes who saved him from being arrested by banning him back to Tarsus where he belonged.

...........These were the apostates. Hellenists that subverted the true word of Yah. Again we see plainly that these are not the words of Sha'ul but of others that was there and witnessed the truth about what occurred. We further see............

That's a lie. The opposite is true. The Hellenists would never stand against Paul, who was a Hellenist himself, preaching Hellenism in Jerusalem. That's the very reason why God-fearing Jews were after him.

Act 11:22 The report concerning them came to the ears of the assembly which was in Yerushalayim. They sent out Barnabas to go to Antioch,
Act 11:23 who, when he had come, and had seen the grace of Elohim, was glad. He exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they should remain near to YAH.
Act 11:24 For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Spirit and of faith, and many people were added to YAH.

Then, instead of doing his job, Barnabas went after Paul in Tarsus, whose decision proved fatal for the Cause of the Nazarenes in Antioch. (Acts 11:25,26)

Act 11:25 Barnabas went out to Tarsus to look for Sha'ul.
Act 11:26 When he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. It happened, that for a whole year they were gathered together with the assembly, and taught many people. The disciples were first called christian in Antioch.

Got the picture now? If not, at least, you read the picture.

.............And I state that since Barnabas was filled with the Ruach Ha Chodesh that it in no way would have allowed him to go for or even invite Sha’ul if it had of been such an issue. Much less allowed him to do anything that YOU said that he wasn’t supposed to do. As far as the derogatory term "christian" is only found three times through out the NT and here it was used by those other than the believers. Most of whom had a great hate for the believers and would rather see them dead. None of the disciples or apostles used this derogatory term to address one another. We further see...............

There is nothing at all, about being the term Christians derogatory. You see it that way because the blinders are to tight on your eyes.

 

[Ben Masada]

Act 13:43
……………They asked both Barnabas and Sha’ul to continue in this truth………………

What truth? When was ever Hellenism true? For Luke and Paul who were Greek, certainly.

Act 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with jealousy, and contradicted the things which were spoken by Sha'ul, and blasphemed.

The Jews blasphemed against what, Hellenism? That would not constitute a blaspheme.

Act 13:47 For so has YAH commanded us, saying, 'I have set you as a light for the Gentiles, that you should bring salvation to the uttermost parts of the earth.'"

Now, use your own NT to prove to me that Paul ever went to the Gentiles. Since the synagogues of Damascus and until his last station in Rome, he never left the Jews in peace, as if Gentiles were to be found in the synagogues of the Jews.

Act 14:1 It happened in Iconium that they entered together into the Jewish synagogue, and so spoke that a great multitude both of Jews and of Greeks believed.

Do you see what I mean? Always in the synagogues of the Jews. When did he go to the Gentiles? Never! He only loved to say what he was but would behave otherwise.

Act 14:2 But the disbelieving Jews stirred up and embittered the minds of the Gentiles against the brothers.

But of course! They were not Gentiles. Why didn't he go to the Gentiles? But no, he prefered to teach the Jews what it's written in Acts 21:21.

…………..So Barnabas and Sha’ul both continued in spreading those decrees that was ordained by the council in Yerushalayim……………

Those decrees were the Noahite laws, because the Council in Jerusalem had decided that the followers of Paul were no more than Gentiles.

I am quite at peace with the knowledge of the truth that I have been allowed to possess and fully understand that you, and those like you must be allowed to continue as a test for the rest of us. In closing I will quote my King with his own words, emphasis mine.............

The Truth! What is the Truth? The Psalmist says that the Truth is the Word of God which was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth. Read Psalms 119:105 and 147:19,20.

Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said to (Ben Masada), "Get behind me, (Adversary)! You are a stumbling block to me, for you are not setting your mind on the things of Elohim, but on the things of men."

In that case Jesus was set on the things of men. Read Matthew 5:19. That's what I am all about.

 

[Zardoz]

Read Matthew 5:19. That's what I am all about.

:clap Quoted for Truth. :clap

Not only Jewish Commandments, but the universal commandments, the 7 Laws of Noah aka Noahide Laws. All peoples have this as a common ground, let no man proclaim otherwise.

 

[Ben Masada]

:clap Quoted for Truth. :clap

Not only Jewish Commandments, but the universal commandments, the 7 Laws of Noah aka Noahide Laws. All peoples have this as a common ground, let no man proclaim otherwise.

Yes Zardoz, I do agree with you totally.