The Mental Illness Question

[allfoak]

What did find the way out of and how did you?

This is a big question.

The only way to describe it is outer darkness.
Living with no knowledge of who i am.
i searched high and low for answers.
I knew my questions had answers even though no one i ever spoke with could give them to me.
Much of the time i was told that it was a foolish pursuit, that life was just culture and we should just join a church if we wanted those answers.
I did that.
I went to college and studied the Bible.
I lived and worked with many different groups and sects.
I did enough research for a masters.
No answers.

I checked myself into every rehab halfway house and psychiatric ward i could.
No answers.


I had also given up on the medical industry for any answers to the health problems that plagued me all of my life.
I was determined to find answers and so i began to take herbs to restore my health and i began studying myself.

I turned inward.
It was then that i learned that i had an eternal soul and that i was a prodigal son.
As simple as that may sound it is the answer to who we are and why we are here.
Since then i have been able to learn a great deal about natural law and how one should live according to these laws.

Life is really quite simple once you learn that you can control your thoughts and emotions to the point where you can create you own circumstances.
First you have to know who you are and why you are here then everything else falls into place.

Mental heath is not about drugs and therapy, it is about knowledge and happiness.
It is about becoming whole.
Once you learn who you are and how to live with the laws you are under, life becomes more integrated and whole.
It has purpose and is fulfilling.

Here is an example of how people are being treated in the mental health industry.

 

[picnic]

@allfoak , I'm glad you found something that works for you

 

[allfoak]

Well, considering that it really hasn't been that long since we abandoned locking those with mentally illnesses away and putting them away in asylums, such treatments are still in their infancy. Some doctors do screw up, but many doctors have helped many people from being at the mercy of their mood swings or other impairing conditions to being able to function without their illness being a major detriment.
Really, what is more damaging is dismissing treatment entirely and talking as if it's just all in the head, and trying to say that someone with several years of education has an education that is "deplorable."

Using where we have been to make what is happening now does not help anything.

Yes many have been put on so many different drugs that they only have one mood and that makes them better?
Any education that can be implicated in the death of others is deplorable.
The psychiatric and medical communities fit the bill.

I grew up being told that a serious bowel problem was all in my head.
My poor parents had no idea what to do for me.
I had that bowel problem till i was 50yrs old.
This is after i abandoned the medical community and took charge of my own heath.
I didn't just find a cure for my bowels but i am restoring my health in a way i never thought possible.
Something that i could never find in a hospital.

The medical and psychiatric communities are killing people.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There is no empirical data to support modern psychiatry.

Have you ever heard of statistics? P values? Strong/weak correlation? There is a reason that Freud's ideas of psychotherapy have largely and mostly fell out of favor and have been replaced.

I would imagine you wouldn't recognize a genius if you met one.

Actually I have met several, and I am one myself.

Yes many have been put on so many different drugs that they only have one mood and that makes them better?

Depending on the disorder, yes. And not just for their sake, but for the sake of those around them.

Any education that can be implicated in the death of others is deplorable.

This is basically a declaration that you have no idea what goes into the education of a therapist, psychologist, and psychiatrist.

 

[allfoak]

Have you ever heard of statistics? P values? Strong/weak correlation? There is a reason that Freud's ideas of psychotherapy have largely and mostly fell out of favor and have been replaced.

Actually I have met several, and I am one myself.

Depending on the disorder, yes. And not just for their sake, but for the sake of those around them.

This is basically a declaration that you have no idea what goes into the education of a therapist, psychologist, and psychiatrist.

Typical.
Bunch of hogwash and no answers.
Some genius.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I would imagine you wouldn't recognize a genius if you met one.

In a manner of speaking, it could very well be more difficult then it seems.

My thoughts gravitate towards idiot savants possessing unparalleled brilliance in a specific way, or if one were to come across Steven Hawking, unaware of his medical condition, if he could be precieved as being the genius he actually is.

 

[allfoak]

In a manner of speaking, it could very well be more difficult then it seems.

My thoughts gravitate towards idiot savants possessing unparalleled brilliance in a specific way, or if one were to come across Steven Hawking, unaware of his medical condition, if he could be precieved as being the genius he actually is.

Once you have tapped into your own genius you can then recognize it in others.
We can't see what we don't understand.

 

[Timothy Bryce]

With my many years in and out of drug rehabs i have found that it is not very difficult to convince the psychiatrists and psychologists that i am either sane or mentally ill.
Using the system became easy because many who are "educated" only know what they have been told to think.
Those of us who have had to rely on experience to learn often know a great deal more about mental states than those who have been "educated" about them.

This being the case, the system of diagnoses seems to have a major flaw.
It relies on the interaction of doctor and patient.
I can essentially decide for myself what the diagnoses will be without the doctors every knowing that they have been manipulated.

Mental states can be moved in and out of like we move in and out of a room.
Many who end up on pharmaceuticals for the rest of their life for something that some Dr. thinks is not quite normal will never have an opportunity to learn what it is that they need to overcome the issue that may exist.
Some of these people just need a knowledgeable person to guide them, not drugs.
People who get stuck in one place or another in their mind just need someone to show them to the door to get out.
Sometimes this door is nothing more than a kind word.

Good post. I forgot to mention the major flaw in the treatment system we have in the west that enables virtually anyone with a computer and an ability to read to be able to manipulate doctors/mental health professionals for their own purposes or even fall into the trap of self-diagnosis. It cheapens the system that is already in place and seems to render it a problem.

 

[Timothy Bryce]

I agree that everybody seems to have a diagnosis today. Eventually the psychologists may have NPD (normal personality disorder)

Regarding depression, it is more than simply a response to material circumstances. I seem to have a weird form of depression that comes and goes. The coming and going allows me to observe the difference. When I come out of depression, I'm always shocked by how distorted my perceptions had been before just an hour earlier. I'm also not a fan of psychiatric medications, but I know they are beneficial to some people.


I agree with that. I would say religion would not exist without mental illness. A person who would have gone to a monastery and become a famous saint in ancient times would simply take medication today. This is something to consider when we look for inspiration and wisdom in the writings of these ancient saints, etc. If it is hard to understand, maybe that is because it is schizophrenic word salad instead of subtle wisdom.

It's interesting that, in conversations I've had with close friends who have experienced depression, almost everyone seems to point to a single, persistent issue that was troubling them that they felt they needed to come to terms with in order to overcome their "depression". On the contrary, however, clients and people who I am not as familiar with are often a lot cagier regarding the issue and claim not to know the cause and simply accept it as a chemical imbalance that needs to be corrected. Maybe it has something to do with introspection and an ability to identity the material issue if there actually is one.

I like your titbit about the correlation between mental illness and the capacity to achieve great/notable things. Following on, I often consider whether the people who made it out of (or even functionally maintained) difficult emotional/psychological phases were actually enabled to understand themselves and their surroundings better than otherwise for having been afflicted with a dispositions that pressure them to really get to the bottom of things. It raises the question of whether there is a correlation between intelligence as an acquired characteristic and fuelled by emotional/psychological difficulty. On this basis, certain disorders and illnesses could be considered to be blessings in disguise.

 

[Timothy Bryce]

Peace be on you....If I may ask, in your opinion
1-what were various reasons for mental illness in % cases. Family issues, unable to solve life problems, oppression, nutrition, substance abuse, parental negligence, schools' pressure.....etc.
2-How much % people should not have used medicine for mental illness.
3-How many cultures are represented by your patients(?) ?
4-How many patients % could get benefit with proper life routines, good sleep, less TV, balanced food etc.
Thanks

1. I'm not a mental health professional, I'm a criminal lawyer so the context is very different. Often times, when a client is charged with an offence that they are clearly going to be found guilty of, the best route for ensuring that they get the best possible result is to have a registered psychiatrist to provide a mental health report in mitigation of the person's offending behaviour. This usually means applying some text book illness to them which is used as an explanation for why they did what they did. Laymen generally hear stories like this and consider it to be a kind of disgrace or miscarriage of justice when, in reality, often times a Mental Health Report is the only time a defendant's personal circumstances and mitigating circumstances can be properly heard and considered by the court. The narrative that eventually unfolds in court is one that tries to account for all facts however I definitely see the futility in applying the labels in terms of gaining any form of long term treatment for what is usually agree to be a diagnosable mental disorder/illness. Alleged criminals who go this route very often consider being charged with an offence to be a "huge wake up call" or catalyst for changing the behaviours and mental circumstances that led them to become involved with a criminal act.

In consideration of the above, here are some terse answers to the rest of your questions (and use some arbitrary percentages, which I like to do lol):

2. Very few. Maybe the 10-20% being the people who noticeable need to be medicated for their own safety and for the safety of the general public. Probably the only people who could fairly be described as criminally insane.

3. Of all my clients, most are regular people from all classes and backgrounds. Probably more people from lower socio-economic backgrounds, but that doesn't make crime intrinsic to them; lower socio-economic backgrounds seem to breed a variety of different sub-cultures (from hippies to bikies) as opposed to people who are just trying to hold down a job and a family.

4. I would say all people suffering from an apparent mental illness/disorder.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Typical.
Bunch of hogwash and no answers.
Some genius.

You're the one who has been criticizing an entire field of medicine and study while showing a profound lack of knowledge and understanding about it. And furthering the "crazy genius" myth doesn't help your case.
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/stardust_smoke_and_mirrors_the_myth_of_the_mad_genius/
The mad genius myth qualifies on all counts, deriving its credibility from expert proponents (hereinafter called “mythers”) who proclaim the existence of a solid empirical link between great creativity and bipolar disorder, so that those who are blessed with the one must also be saddled with the other. This equation is patently false but too rarely challenged
http://www.amazon.com/The-Insanity-Hoax-Exposing-Genius/dp/0983698244
This groundbreaking book sheds new light on an old and destructive stereotype: the idea that the highly talented must suffer a lifetime of psychological torment in payment for their exceptional gifts. Despite exaggerated professional claims, widespread popular assumptions, and the dramatic parade of "mad geniuses" in the media, no one has ever proved that creative people are more prone to psychopathology than any other group.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3935122/
By the looks of these numbers, I would wager good money that the link between mental illness and genius is negative. To be exact: extremely negative.

 

[allfoak]

You're the one who has been criticizing an entire field of medicine and study while showing a profound lack of knowledge and understanding about it. And furthering the "crazy genius" myth doesn't help your case.
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/stardust_smoke_and_mirrors_the_myth_of_the_mad_genius/
The mad genius myth qualifies on all counts, deriving its credibility from expert proponents (hereinafter called “mythers”) who proclaim the existence of a solid empirical link between great creativity and bipolar disorder, so that those who are blessed with the one must also be saddled with the other. This equation is patently false but too rarely challenged
http://www.amazon.com/The-Insanity-Hoax-Exposing-Genius/dp/0983698244
This groundbreaking book sheds new light on an old and destructive stereotype: the idea that the highly talented must suffer a lifetime of psychological torment in payment for their exceptional gifts. Despite exaggerated professional claims, widespread popular assumptions, and the dramatic parade of "mad geniuses" in the media, no one has ever proved that creative people are more prone to psychopathology than any other group.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3935122/
By the looks of these numbers, I would wager good money that the link between mental illness and genius is negative. To be exact: extremely negative.

i never said that a genius must suffer some ridiculous thing you call mental illness.
i am suggesting that problems are evident with genius because they often have to live in a culture that is contrary to their way of thinking with few who understand.

I am not concerned about your myth idea because i don't buy into that stuff.
I quit reading books and listening to the experts years ago.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

i never said that a genius must suffer some ridiculous thing you call mental illness.

So then you never said this?

Do a study on genius.
They are often living on the edge of sanity.

 

[Noa]

Did this thread really have to be hijacked by anti-psychiatry? Surely there is a Tom Cruise thread somewhere.

 

[allfoak]

So then you never said this?[/QUOTE

Yes i said that.
No i do not buy into the concept of mental illness.
Unsound judgment is an issue for everyone at some point.
For some more than others.
It characterizes a teenagers life.
We don't call them mentally ill, we call them foolish and inexperienced.
For those who live on the fringes of thought what they think is sound judgment is not always the norm for the culture.

So lets be clear about this.
I do not subscribe to the idea of mental illness.
If you want to talk about what is considered sane then we will have to discuss what particular cultures consider sound judgment.

Every culture has a different view of what is "normal".

 

[allfoak]

Did this thread really have to be hijacked by anti-psychiatry? Surely there is a Tom Cruise thread somewhere.

I will go look for the Tom Cruise thread.
sorry

I thought everyone's perspective was welcome in a general discussion.
If you didn't like what was being said you could have said something different.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I do not subscribe to the idea of mental illness.

So you do not subscribe to things such as autism, even though it is real and people with it need help in certain areas, or bi-polar disorder even though it happens and people with it may pose a danger to themselves or others, or schizophrenia even though it happens and people hear non-existent voices and inanimate objects may speak to them, or Savant syndrome even though it happens and they are typically extremely gifted in a certain area, or psychopathy even though it happens and they are typically detached, distanced, and lack empathy, or dementia even though it happens and it is a devastating disorder?

 

[psychoslice]

Through my so called mental illness, that being schizophrenia, I was able to have an experience in Consciousness, or what is called Enlightenment. All my life I felt that I wasn't who I was, but years later when I was in my room in deep clinical depression contemplating suicide, I all of a sudden feel onto my bed and disappeared, in this disappearance I could feel myself expanding through the whole cosmos, it was a deep realization that I was all there is, and that I wasn't just this mind body organism called Robert.

After I came to, everything felt new, it was like I was born into a world that I belonged, the I being Consciousness, or the Source of all, I began to laugh my head off, as if I finally got the joke, and the joke was always on me. This joke was the Cosmos playing hide and seek, this hide and seek is needed so as we as the mind body organism can live as a being, or human being, but its because we have forgotten our true self, that is Consciousness, that we suffer in life.

This realization is a gift from the Source, when this realization hits you, you then realize that we as the Source can never die, or even be born, its the mind body organism that dies, the body is like the waves on the ocean, when the wave emerges into the ocean it is one in the ocean, and in fact it was always the ocean, there was never a wave, it was the perception of a wave by the perceiver, it was just an illusion, just as we are as a mind body organism.

 

[Timothy Bryce]

Through my so called mental illness, that being schizophrenia, I was able to have an experience in Consciousness, or what is called Enlightenment. All my life I felt that I wasn't who I was, but years later when I was in my room in deep clinical depression contemplating suicide, I all of a sudden feel onto my bed and disappeared, in this disappearance I could feel myself expanding through the whole cosmos, it was a deep realization that I was all there is, and that I wasn't just this mind body organism called Robert.

After I came to, everything felt new, it was like I was born into a world that I belonged, the I being Consciousness, or the Source of all, I began to laugh my head off, as if I finally got the joke, and the joke was always on me. This joke was the Cosmos playing hide and seek, this hide and seek is needed so as we as the mind body organism can live as a being, or human being, but its because we have forgotten our true self, that is Consciousness, that we suffer in life.

This realization is a gift from the Source, when this realization hits you, you then realize that we as the Source can never die, or even be born, its the mind body organism that dies, the body is like the waves on the ocean, when the wave emerges into the ocean it is one in the ocean, and in fact it was always the ocean, there was never a wave, it was the perception of a wave by the perceiver, it was just an illusion, just as we are as a mind body organism.

I was waiting on this response. Loved every last word. This post continues to confirm my understanding of the parallels between schizophrenia and psychedelic experiences; this description could almost be used interchangeably with the experienced/reported finer aspects of an elementary acid trip or something similar like some of the various forms of meditation that I'm less familiar with than the psychoactive shortcuts.

 

[psychoslice]

I was waiting on this response. Loved every last word. This post continues to confirm my understanding of the parallels between schizophrenia and psychedelic experiences; this description could almost be used interchangeably with the experienced/reported finer aspects of an elementary acid trip or something similar like some of the various forms of meditation that I'm less familiar with than the psychoactive shortcuts.

The drug that I ever took as dope, I was always frightened of anything else. Schizophrenia or bipolar can be a gateway to what is beyond the mind body organism, but most I believe when going through images produced by psychotic episodes, are like someone thrown into a lake, most thrush about trying to swim, while some do swim, these who do swim can experience the beyond. This is why in psychosis many believe their Jesus or whatever god-man is within their culture, in a way they are what Jesus supposedly became, and that is the Christ. The Christ is our Oneness with the Source or God, in this psychosis they are in a way remembering who they truly are, but just like dreams its all disordered and confusing.