The mind and the brain

[1137]

Is the mind a product of the brain, or is it something more? Can the physical brain alone explain our ability to think, feel, experience, interpret, be aware, etc? Also, how exactly does the subconscious mind work? Is it also a product of the brain, or something else?

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Can the physical brain alone explain our ability to think, feel, experience, interpret, be aware, etc?

No. We also need bodies (hands, eyes, ears, etc.).

 

[Penumbra]

Is the mind a product of the brain, or is it something more? Also, how exactly does the subconscious mind work? Is it also a product of the brain, or something else?

I've not seen any compelling evidence that something other than biology is responsible for our mind to work.

Can the physical brain alone explain our ability to think, feel, experience, interpret, be aware, etc?

I'm not sure anyone has ever, in any form or setting or age, fully explained with support our ability to think, feel, experience, interpret, or be aware.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Is the mind a product of the brain, or is it something more?

As a materialist I'd say it's a product of the brain, in fact there's enough scientific research to support pointing out that the brain is fully capable of creating the mind and consciousness without any need for some kind of soul.

Can the physical brain alone explain our ability to think, feel, experience, interpret, be aware, etc?

It depends how far you want to define brain, the organ alone or the physical body that is attached to it (which is basically most of this meatsuit).

The five senses basically have different mechanisms to run them, such as vision requires an eye which has many deep down, scientific information which you can find in any google search about it, or maybe books on them. Hearing has the ear, etc. It's all very physical and it sends this information to the brain.

Basically, the brain allows it to take information, and then it receives the information given, so basically if you wanted to get deep down, everything on you is a part of the brain.

Also, how exactly does the subconscious mind work? Is it also a product of the brain, or something else?[/QUOTE]

It is a product of the brain. I have the idea of how it works, but really I think it's better to let actual neurologists do the explaining instead of me:

The human body is a bunch of cells arranged in an explicit format so that all the life functions are performed to perfection. This is true for all other living organisms also but mostly our discussion would stay pertaining to the human body although its relevance can be extended to all living creatures.
The human body is a complex arrangement. It has tangible as well as intangible features. Mind and the body both have distinct functions. Thinking is a function of the mind, which is predominantly intangible. So the human body cannot be considered only mechanical. It has multifarious functionalities, which need to be understood with a broader perspective of spirit, mind and energy system of the body.
Evolution has brought in several insights into us. Most of these are stored in our subconscious minds. Our conscious mind is the part of the mind that we are aware of and can consciously control while the subconscious mind is like a database which holds all kinds of information, which we not even aware of. But this information plays extremely important role in our lives as we react to most of the things according to this stored information. Some of this information is also genetic in nature. But most of the information is learnt in our development phases.
Subconscious mind plays the role of creating our conscious behaviour. It is the single biggest influence on our reactions to almost everything that we experience in our day to day lives. This extends to almost all of our responses. Most of the time people react according to the instantaneous feedback provided to them from their subconscious minds. Neuroscientists have shown that 95%-99% of our behaviour is made up of stored responses. Subconscious mind does not reason or create anything. It just responds from this stored information.
This is the reason why it is quite a possibility that although we may be trying consciously to move on the forward path but our subconscious mind may be dragging us behind all the time. This is also the reason why just thinking positive does not help. In order to actually move forward we need to reprogram our subconscious minds.
The subconscious mind gets some of its programming from prenatal and neonatal experiences and also from the early life experiences. Changes in these are difficult but they too can happen with enough commitment.

Source: How does your Subconscious Mind Work? - Health & Wealth Centre




Hope I helped!

 

[Vultar]

The brain could almost be considered a "training arena" for the spirit. It has pathways which guide the electrical impulses and the body contains to sensory input devices (eyes, ears, skin etc). Throughout life, the brain is learning from all these inputs, in essence, guiding the electrical impulses in specific ways.

After you die, the energy leaves the host body, but has been "trained" how to move to continue to have thought. This energy is the spirit which can do a number of things after death. Depending on the experiences during life the amount of energy can be more or less. For example, if a baby dies, their energy would be very small (and have little control) and they would have limited options in the afterlife (pretty much just reicarnation for another shot). Your stronger energy spirit can sustain itself in the afterlife and can even split energy off to be reicarnated as a new spirit.

I know this all sounds strange (or crazy), but... it is what it is....

 

[Fiddler]

I know this all sounds strange (or crazy), but... it is what it is....

That energy could be perhaps the energy of an atom,center of your ideas. As we get inside the matter as much as we can, we are approaching the infinity of matter, uncountable energy where all the physical theories seems to conflict with reality . Inside the atom the matter exists and disappear at the same time which is another conflict with the reality we perceive in this world. The particulars have no mass but much more heavier than the atom itself , which clearly identifies inside atom it is another dimension.

Pls have a look at the below ;

n the parlance of physics, “slow” is another way of saying “heavy.” So by analogy, your mass depends on some fundamental physics attribute, equivalent to snowshoes or skis, that affects how a particular type of particle passes through the Higgs field.
ot be too heavy, or the theories that predict its existence would not work.

ref:

I know this all sounds strange (or crazy), but... it is what it is....

That energy could be perhaps the energy of an atom,center of your ideas. As we get inside the matter as much as we can, we are approaching the infinity of matter, uncountable energy where all the physical theories seems to conflict with reality . Inside the atom the matter exists and disappear at the same time which is another conflict with the reality we perceive in this world. The particulars have no mass but much more heavier than the atom itself , which clearly identifies inside atom it is another dimension.

Pls have a look at the below ;

n the parlance of physics, “slow” is another way of saying “heavy.” So by analogy, your mass depends on some fundamental physics attribute, equivalent to snowshoes or skis, that affects how a particular type of particle passes through the Higgs field.
ot be too heavy, or the theories that predict its existence would not work.

Refered from : The Biggest Thing in Physics | Subatomic Particles | DISCOVER Magazine

 

[1137]

The brain could almost be considered a "training arena" for the spirit. It has pathways which guide the electrical impulses and the body contains to sensory input devices (eyes, ears, skin etc). Throughout life, the brain is learning from all these inputs, in essence, guiding the electrical impulses in specific ways.

After you die, the energy leaves the host body, but has been "trained" how to move to continue to have thought. This energy is the spirit which can do a number of things after death. Depending on the experiences during life the amount of energy can be more or less. For example, if a baby dies, their energy would be very small (and have little control) and they would have limited options in the afterlife (pretty much just reicarnation for another shot). Your stronger energy spirit can sustain itself in the afterlife and can even split energy off to be reicarnated as a new spirit.

I know this all sounds strange (or crazy), but... it is what it is....

So are you saying that our brains and experiences and such in this life pretty much create the spirit? That is an amazing concept that I never thought of, and it seems to work with many things. Imagine; non material causes material which causes non material. Sound like a never ending cycle to me.

 

[Copernicus]

The evidence that minds are generated by brains is overwhelming. Every mental function that we possess can be mapped to physical brain activity. When the brain suffers too much trauma, we lose consciousness. Unfortunately, all the evidence leads to the conclusion that brain death--the ultimate brain trauma--leads to permanent loss of consciousness.

 

[1137]

The evidence that minds are generated by brains is overwhelming. Every mental function that we possess can be mapped to physical brain activity. When the brain suffers too much trauma, we lose consciousness. Unfortunately, all the evidence leads to the conclusion that brain death--the ultimate brain trauma--leads to permanent loss of consciousness.

Thank you, that is helpful. For the sake of argument, is consciousness not just awareness? So maybe brain death leads to loss of human consciousness?

 

[InChrist]

I have just read the following article which these excerpts are from, but I’m too tired to comment tonight.



The Origin of Consciousness [Part II]

[FONT=&quot]“What, precisely, is the relationship between mind and brain? Eccles answered as follows.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]How can the mental act of intention activate across the mind-brain frontier those particular SMA [supplementary motor area—BT/BH] neurons in the appropriate code for activating the motor programs that bring about intended voluntary movements? The answer is that, despite the so-called “insuperable” difficulty of having a non-material mind act on a material brain, it has been demonstrated to occur by a mental intention—no doubt to the great discomfiture of all materialists and physicalists (1985, pp. 55-56, emp. in orig.).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][W]e have discovered that mental intentions act upon the SMA in a highly selective, discriminating manner[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. In a fashion which is not yet fully understood, mental intentions are able to activate across the mind-brain frontier those particular SMA neurons that are coded for initiating the specialized motor programs that cause voluntary movements. As I remarked earlier, this may present an “insuperable” difficulty for some scientists of materialist bent, but the fact remains, and is demonstrated by research, that non-material mind acts on material brain (as quoted in Cousins, 1985, pp. 61-62,85-86, italics in orig., emp. added).”[/FONT]


“In 1961, Canadian neurosurgeon Wilder Penfield reported a dramatic demonstration of the reality of active mind at work. He observed mind acting independently of the brain under controlled experimental conditions that were reproducible at will (see Penfield, 1961; 1975; Custance, 1980, p. 19).”



Excerpts from: The Origin of Consciousness [Part II]

Apologetics Press

 

[atanu]

This has been discussed endlessly without a resolution. OK. Once more. Brain alonwith the sense organs are the tools for the aware being.
...........................................................
Without the power of cognition the brain itself would not be cognized. Moreover, a brain in a lifeless body does not show any capacity to cognize etc.

As per Vedanta the being is sheathed within five layers of clothing; Bliss,Ego or Intellect, Mind, Life or Vital Air, Food or Matter, from inner to outer.

The being traverses from name-form to name-form together with the inner 3sheaths (discarding the outer two at each transition) as long as ego desireslast.

As the outer two layers are shed, the superficial information related to the immediate body and the conscious mind is lost.But we know that instincts are not lostt even in abnimals. Yogis of all religions through concentration of mind on pure consciousnesshave averred that the soul transits from a body to another.

As per this understanding, the being that transits from form to form isnothing but conditioned awareness with particular set/s of desire/s.

If the awareness was mechanically generatedthrough material interaction alone, then there was no way that we could use ourintellect and make choices and decisions – we would simply be mechanistic machines. We may very well be mechanistic machines only but inthat case the view point of those who assert the mechanistic view point is alsothat. Whereas, even for claiming that the material brain is the source ofintellect, intellect is required. Before we can see the brain and understandits working, intellect is required.

 

[work in progress]

Is the mind a product of the brain,

Yes

or is it something more?

No.

Can the physical brain alone explain our ability to think, feel, experience, interpret, be aware, etc?

Yes.

Also, how exactly does the subconscious mind work?

Brain activity that does not have our conscious attention.

Is it also a product of the brain,

Yes.

or something else?

No.

 

[work in progress]

Thank you, that is helpful. For the sake of argument, is consciousness not just awareness? So maybe brain death leads to loss of human consciousness?

No, because most conscious activity in the brain goes on and occurs without our awareness. It's only activities that require conscious deliberation that are brought to our attention. For example: if we are learning a new skill we have never performed before, such as playing a guitar...the entire process will be a conscious effort. Then as we practice the new skill a number of times, more and more of the coordinated actions occur at an intuitive level and are not brought to our conscious awareness. If we become an expert, the whole process of playing the guitar might be performed without any conscious effort.

 

[work in progress]

The evidence that minds are generated by brains is overwhelming. Every mental function that we possess can be mapped to physical brain activity. When the brain suffers too much trauma, we lose consciousness. Unfortunately, all the evidence leads to the conclusion that brain death--the ultimate brain trauma--leads to permanent loss of consciousness.

I've considered the best evidence that our sense of mind is a self-generated illusion, are the examples from when things go wrong: like the split brain patients who have trouble coordinating two separated "minds," or bizarre mental dysfunctions, like Cotard's Syndrome -- where, apparently because of a problem in the brain accessing some necessary feedback from the nervous system, the patient tells therapists that they don't feel "alive," and will often insist that they are really dead, and are not dissuaded even if they are given examples such as hearing their own heart beating.

The mind appears to be not much more than a continuous, self-generated illusion created by the brain, to enable our physical selves to act and function in the world in a coordinated manner. And, likely the most important purpose of the mind is to create a strong sense of self-preservation. In simpler animals, it keeps them alive until their number is up; but the problem with humans is that we have developed enough awareness of death to realize that our physical selves will have to die also. So then we create escape clauses to this rule through the concept that the mind is really a spirit that will live on after the body dies...even taking over a new body according to some religions.

 

[PolyHedral]

If the awareness was mechanically generatedthrough material interaction alone, then there was no way that we could use ourintellect and make choices and decisions – we would simply be mechanistic machines.

Machines can make choices.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Is the mind a product of the brain, or is it something more?

The mind is the product of the brain is the product of the body is the product of the planet is the product of the universe, so both.

Can the physical brain alone explain our ability to think, feel, experience, interpret, be aware, etc?

Sure.

Also, how exactly does the subconscious mind work? Is it also a product of the brain, or something else?

It's all the processes of the brain that do not reach conscious awareness. Consciousness is only the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Looncall]

The brain could almost be considered a "training arena" for the spirit. It has pathways which guide the electrical impulses and the body contains to sensory input devices (eyes, ears, skin etc). Throughout life, the brain is learning from all these inputs, in essence, guiding the electrical impulses in specific ways.

After you die, the energy leaves the host body, but has been "trained" how to move to continue to have thought. This energy is the spirit which can do a number of things after death. Depending on the experiences during life the amount of energy can be more or less. For example, if a baby dies, their energy would be very small (and have little control) and they would have limited options in the afterlife (pretty much just reicarnation for another shot). Your stronger energy spirit can sustain itself in the afterlife and can even split energy off to be reicarnated as a new spirit.

I know this all sounds strange (or crazy), but... it is what it is....

You need to realize that energy is not a substance. It is just a shorthand for particular arrangements of objects. In physics terms, it is the ability to do work (force times distance). Your post is nonsensical.

This treating phenomena as things when they are not things is one of the basic errors of thought that give rise to religious thinking.

 

[Vultar]

So are you saying that our brains and experiences and such in this life pretty much create the spirit? That is an amazing concept that I never thought of, and it seems to work with many things. Imagine; non material causes material which causes non material. Sound like a never ending cycle to me.

It is a never ending cycle (well at least until it evolves further over the next 10,000 years). What I've mentioned of course is a very simplified explaination of how it works. As with everything in this world, it is much more complex and has many variables....

 

[1137]

It is a never ending cycle (well at least until it evolves further over the next 10,000 years). What I've mentioned of course is a very simplified explaination of how it works. As with everything in this world, it is much more complex and has many variables....

Looncall is correct. I take it you don't mean energy as in from physics?

 

[PolyHedral]

After you die, the energy leaves the host body, but has been "trained" how to move to continue to have thought.

This does not and cannot happen. Energy does not retain form or coherency in this way.