The Monopoly of Religious Believers

[monti]

Do you realize this also works in reverse? How many atheists believe in loving their enemies or turning the other cheek.

:thud: I agree, I did say without a god an atheist can do what a theist does.
But I have also said that an atheist would not do those abhorrent things I have mentioned.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

:thud: I agree, I did say without a god an atheist can do what a theist does.
But I have also said that an atheist would not do those abhorrent things I have mentioned.

Some do and have...see my earlier post. You can't generalise.

 

[monti]

Atheists also don't go around trying to inform people, children among them, that if they don't love them, they will burn and suffer for eternity.

I agree and they don't arm children to the teeth either.

Junior jihad: Spraying bullets from an AK-47, the four-year-old Al Qaeda fighter in Syria who should be in infants’ school

The 4-year-old Al Qaeda fighter in Syria shooting an AK-47 | Mail Online

 

[monti]

I know plenty of atheists who have undergone circumcision for various reasons?

Yes, for various reasons (emergency operations and so forth) but not because it was dictated by a god.

Do not confuse FGM with male circumcision, the two are VERY different.

It is still genital mutilation dictated by a god is it not?

Actually a JW themselves deprive themselves of the right to life by refusing a blood transfusion.

Yes, and why do they do that?

My brother is an atheist and it took him a while to agree to a blood transfusion. He just didn't like the idea of having someone else's blood pumped into him

Yes, that was HIS choice not the dictate of a god!

Take Islam...it's actually a very peaceful religion, but terrorists have twisted it but I'm hoping you wouldn't put a very nice Muslim in the same category of a terrorist?

Not according to the terrorist my friend. He will tell you ‘it is GODS WILL’!

my point is that it is NOT the religion per se, it's the people and what they choose to do.

Yes, religious believers believe they have to follow the laws and dictates of their gods. So of course it is religion, a religion fronted by and led by a god.

So your point about religious believers doing things that atheists wouldn't do is wrong.

Or you may be in denial?

 

[sandandfoam]

Yes, religious believers believe they have to follow the laws and dictates of their gods.

That is not true.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

Yes, for various reasons (emergency operations and so forth) but not because it was dictated by a god.



It is still genital mutilation dictated by a god is it not?


Yes, and why do they do that?




Yes, that was HIS choice not the dictate of a god!




Not according to the terrorist my friend. He will tell you ‘it is GODS WILL’!



Yes, religious believers believe they have to follow the laws and dictates of their gods. So of course it is religion, a religion fronted by and led by a god.


Or you may be in denial?

You seem to be confused as to what you yourself believe?

Did you not say that atheists don't do what religious believers do? You then gave example circumcision and blood transfusion. I gave you example of atheists doing those things? Hence proving you wrong. The reasons behind the act are not important. You made a general premise of atheists do not do what religious believers do eg circumcision and blood transfusion. I showed you where they have done.

I was never arguing it was their choice, but since you accept this you accept that atheists do do those things and so your first statement was false?

 

[Straw Dog]

Why is it that the religious believer believes they have the monopoly on being the only people who can be kind and benevolent to others?

The bigger question may be: Why do religious believers need a dogmatic holy book to tell them how to love in the first place? I mean, without Jesus, many of us would still probably realize that it's better to show love and affection towards others. Commanding love turns it into something unnatural.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

What you seem to be saying is that you are quite happy for an atheist to CHOOSE to do something, circumcision, blood transfusion etc but you are not happy for a believer to CHOOSE to do the same?

If you have an issue with the act itself, why is it ok for one person to perform it and not the other? That is discrimination. I don't agree with everything people do in general, believers and non believers alike but it is their choice and I respect that. You can't say one group has a right to choose but not the other. As long as the act itself is personal to them, harms no other, legal etc, the reasons behind the act are unimportant.

 

[monti]

You seem to be confused as to what you yourself believe?

I believe made myself clear


Page 1 P10.

believers will conduct themselves and act as their religion demands them to act. But a none believer could do exactly the same without a god.

"Jehovah's Witness whose wife died after refusing blood transfusion is jailed for 13 years over child sex abuse covered up by religion's elders".
Jehovah's Witness whose wife died after refusing blood transfusion is jailed for 13 years over child sex abuse covered up by religion's elders | Mail Online

Hence proving you wrong. The reasons behind the act are not important. You made a general premise of atheists do not do what religious believers do eg circumcision and blood transfusion. I showed you where they have done.

No, you, giving me, an anecdote about your brother is not showing me anything is it, and neither does it "prove me wrong" And the reasons behind it are a massive factor and very "important" when it comes to a child who has no say whatsoever in the matter of him or her being genitally mutilated on the whim of a god.

 

[monti]

As long as the act itself is personal to them, harms no other, legal etc, the reasons behind the act are unimportant.

Why do you keep saying the reasons behind the act are "unimportant"? It does cause "harm" pain and suffering and disfigurement to others doesn't it, particularly children who have no say in the matter!
The reasons behind it is a god and that gods dictates!

Would your atheist brother refuse his own child a blood transfusion just because he didn't like the idea!?

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

I believe made myself clear

Hey, Monti. I notice that you have not removed this link from your earlier message:

57 Women Stoned To Death During Annual Riyadh Fashion Week | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

People will read that message and believe that 57 women were actually stoned as described.

Plus, they may doubt your knowledge of news sources.

If it were me, I'd edit it out of my message. Just saying.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

Why do you keep saying the reasons behind the act are "unimportant"? It does cause "harm" pain and suffering and disfigurement to others doesn't it, particularly children who have no say in the matter!
The reasons behind it is a god and that gods dictates!

Would your atheist brother refuse his own child a blood transfusion just because he didn't like the idea!?

If you are giving to edit your posts to hide things you have said...I am not engaging with you. That is dishonest.

After every example you clearly stated "an atheist would not do that"

 

[monti]

If it were me, I'd edit it out of my message. Just saying.

I have jumped the gun I will admit not looking at that link closer, but there were so many links concerning the stoning of women for the flimsiest of reasons and because it was dictated by a god and was a gods law, that I was spoilt for choice.

But here is another to make a point;

Girl 'is stoned to death by Syrian fundamentalists for having a FACEBOOK account'. ....The court, which is under the jurisdiction of ISIS, ruled the act of being a member of the social network deserved to be punished the same way as adultery

Girl 'stoned to death by Syrian fundamentalists for having a FACEBOOK account' | Mail Online

 

[Truth_Faith13]

But I have also said that an atheist would not do those abhorrent things I have mentioned.

You failed to edit that one though...

I gave you examples where atheists did do "those abhorrent things" you mentioned

 

[monti]

If you are giving to edit your posts to hide things you have said...I am not engaging with you. That is dishonest.

The post has not been changed! POST1 Page 10

I have repeatedly said atheist can do what Theist can do but when the boot is on the other foot there are things an atheist will not do that a theist will do>?

No, not at all. What I mean is that religious believers (those who have a god) believe they some how have the monopoly on benevolence and don't seem to even believe that someone who is an atheist has any moral standing or ethics on how to behave towards others or conduct themselves in an ethical manner without a god. Example; anyone who disbelieves is an infidel or Goy an unclean heathen etc , and doesn't deserve life.

I have said, believers will conduct themselves and act as thier religion demands them to act. But a none believer could do exactly the same without a god.

But putting the shoe on the other foot, there are things demanded of religion that an atheist simply would not do. Example: genital mutilation of infants of children, executing homosexuals, stoning women and refusal of blood transfusion.

"Jehovah's Witness whose wife died after refusing blood transfusion is jailed for 13 years over child sex abuse covered up by religion's elders".




Jehovah's Witness whose wife died after refusing blood transfusion is jailed for 13 years over child sex abuse covered up by religion's elders | Mail Online

 

[monti]

You failed to edit that one though...

I gave you examples where atheists did do "those abhorrent things" you mentioned

You did not give me anything but an anecdote about your brother.

Now answer me , would your brother deny his own child a blood transfusion just because he didn't like the idea?.



You have failed in your argument so now want to call me a liar and a cheat. What do I have have to gain by starting a thread then lying.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Why is it that the religious believer believes they have the monopoly on being the only people who can be kind and benevolent to others?

 

[Truth_Faith13]

You did not give me anything but an anecdote about your brother.

Now answer me , would your brother deny his own child a blood transfusion just because he didn't like the idea?.



You have failed in your argument so now want to call me a liar and a cheat. What do I have have to gain by starting a thread then lying.

The child would be able to choose for itself in most situations. I also don't claim to know what my brother would or not do when he has a child. He is still technically a child himself.

What about the atheists I mentioned who had had circumcision?

Why is it ok for an atheist to choose to have a circumcision but not a believer? Both is a choose that person makes.

What about atheists that commit murder?
What about atheists that lie?

The problem I have with your arguments is you are making sweeping statements. You have an issue with religion so every act ever committed in the name of a belief (which is still a choice) is wrong...

You wrongly claimed that atheists wouldn't do these acts, but I gave you examples where they have!

I believe in God, I believe in loving my neighbour....is the act of loving my neighbour wrong?. Remember it's my choice to do this, but with your logic, the reason is my belief and so the act is wrong?

 

[monti]

I gave you examples where atheists did do "those abhorrent things" you mentioned

You have not shown example of an atheist genitally mutilating a child.

Show me an example of an atheist who would refuse his own child a life saving blood transfusion.

Show me and example where an atheist demands that women should not used contraceptives.

Show me an example of an atheist condemning another human because of the food he/she eats.

Show me an example of an atheist parents who kills their child for refusing to marry someone she is ordered to marry.

The list of abhorrent actions committed by believers because their god dictates it is long and varied TF

 

[Truth_Faith13]

You have not shown example of an atheist genitally mutilating a child.

Show me an example of an atheist who would refuse his own child a life saving blood transfusion.

Show me and example where an atheist demands that women should not used contraceptives.

Show me an example of an atheist condemning another human because of the food he/she eats.

Show me an example of an atheist parents who kills their child for refusing to marry someone she is ordered to marry.

The list of abhorrent actions committed by believers because their god dictates it is long and varied TF

You have a very angry and hardened heart. I hope that one day you realise not all people who believe do this, nor would choose to, nor are they all necessarily bad, just because a woman chooses not to use contraceptives, it's got nothing to do with me. I don't fully disagree with you, I disagree with many things that people have done, atheists and believers alike. The difference being I don't make sweeping statements and I accept those people are still choosing to do those things. They are not held at gun point, they choose to do it. Good day to you and I truly hope you lose the anger and can see the good in some believers and the bad in atheists. Or perhaps you want me to blame the lack of belief for your anger? Or the reason an atheist murders or rapes or judges others for not living the lifestyle they do?