The myriad proofs for the exsitence of God

[autonomous1one1]

When I look within myself, that is to say introspect, I see only ideas and notions, some of which are distinct and self-evident and so have the necessary substance of truth, while others appear fleeting and conditional. And in the former category I must admit to identifying a subsection: things that also have the appearance of certainty. In this mode I can easily conceive of a Being who is the cause of all things and whose non-existence is as impossible as the idea of a rectangle with fewer than four right angles. But when I explore this notion further and pronounce that 'There is no Being', I can find no error in the statement. This is because the non-existence of the Being is as clear to me as the idea of its existence. I see nothing that corrects or denies these perceptions, therefore I see nothing within me that proves what it is I'm supposed to see.

Greetings.
There are many ways and aspects to 'look within' and 'know thyself.' In one sense, the development of understanding of what is meant by 'looking within' is part of the process of 'looking within.’ Looking inward to see ideas, notions, and what can be conceived is one approach but there are other approaches that do not involve these, or thinking at all, or even what may be considered the mind as opposed to pure consciousness. For examples, teachers point towards meditation with stillness of the mind, and to attention focus on pure awareness and consciousness, elements that every human have. ‘Looking within’ can involve ‘development/change within’ such as the cases of study and knowledge coupled with contemplation (perhaps related to Zackcool's ponder and reflection?), and of the path of good works coupled with love. In these latter cases, ‘looking within’ can involve purification. There is much more, too.
Regards,
a..1

 

[cottage]

Greetings.
There are many ways and aspects to 'look within' and 'know thyself.' In one sense, the development of understanding of what is meant by 'looking within' is part of the process of 'looking within.’ Looking inward to see ideas, notions, and what can be conceived is one approach but there are other approaches that do not involve these, or thinking at all, or even what may be considered the mind as opposed to pure consciousness. For examples, teachers point towards meditation with stillness of the mind, and to attention focus on pure awareness and consciousness, elements that every human have. ‘Looking within’ can involve ‘development/change within’ such as the cases of study and knowledge coupled with contemplation (perhaps related to Zackcool's ponder and reflection?), and of the path of good works coupled with love. In these latter cases, ‘looking within’ can involve purification. There is much more, too.
Regards,
a..1

The problem is that you are saying nothing to me. The people who claim to have found themselves within, or whatever the term is, are evidently no more enlightened or wiser than the rest of us. So the change and development you speak of doesn't carry into the world of experience where it would do most good, and therefore it is just an internal system that seeks to justify itself to itself.

 

[Willamena]

The problem is that you are saying nothing to me. The people who claim to have found themselves within, or whatever the term is, are evidently no more enlightened or wiser than the rest of us.

Evidently?

*looks around*

 

[autonomous1one1]

The problem is that you are saying nothing to me. The people who claim to have found themselves within, or whatever the term is, are evidently no more enlightened or wiser than the rest of us. So the change and development you speak of doesn't carry into the world of experience where it would do most good, and therefore it is just an internal system that seeks to justify itself to itself.

Hi Cottage. Perhaps my writing has not been clear. The realization of the true self referred to in the prior posts is meant to refer to Enlightenment or awakening. From one perspective it does 'carry into the world' most profoundly.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

Hi Cottage. Perhaps my writing has not been clear. The realization of the true self referred to in the prior posts is meant to refer to Enlightenment or awakening. From one perspective it does 'carry into the world' most profoundly.

Then why can't you re-produce this "awakening" for everyone. Just write your book or wave your wand or speak you chant and ALL are enlightened?

Seems this state of yours is indeed "yours" and no one else's.

 

[sojourner]

Then why can't you re-produce this "awakening" for everyone. Just write your book or wave your wand or speak you chant and ALL are enlightened?

Seems this state of yours is indeed "yours" and no one else's.

Because the path is one that every individual has to walk for him or herself. There's a very simple concept at work here called "the individual." What works for one doe not necessarily work for another. That's why religion (and God) can only be talked about in mostly very general terms. That's why no specific proof is available. The proof is different for every one.

Yes, the state is "his," "mine," "yours" and no one elses. By George, I think he gets it!

 

[cottage]

Hi Cottage. Perhaps my writing has not been clear. The realization of the true self referred to in the prior posts is meant to refer to Enlightenment or awakening. From one perspective it does 'carry into the world' most profoundly.

I'm sure I'm grasping what it is that you're saying, but you haven't explained what you mean by it. The true self, if there may be such a thing, is who you are, what you do and the sum of your experience. But on hearing the term 'true self', I feel I'm being led to believe that there is some aspect distinct from the corporeal being that is blessed with a greater sense of knowing. This is surely the height of human vanity? And what may I venture to ask is the substance of this enlightenment, and what is revealed by the awakening?

 

[Willamena]

And what may I venture to ask is the substance of this enlightenment, and what is revealed by the awakening?

By my own words, not meaning to speak for A1O1 or others, "information" is the substance, and what is revealed is a unique perspective on the world.

 

[Willamena]

Then why can't you re-produce this "awakening" for everyone. Just write your book or wave your wand or speak you chant and ALL are enlightened?

Seems this state of yours is indeed "yours" and no one else's.

While it's not impossible that he could wake you up, if he shook you hard enough, generally we each determine our point of waking for ourselves.

It is indeed "yours" for each of us.

 

[cottage]

By my own words, not meaning to speak for A1O1 or others, "information" is the substance, and what is revealed is a unique perspective on the world.

Okay.


What information? How is the perspective unique?

 

[OmarKhayyam]

Okay.


What information? How is the perspective unique?

Apparently the "information" is not transferable and the perspective is unique and so has meaning only to the one having it.

A kinda "I got it. You don't. And even if you did what you got wouldn't be what I got! Nonetheless it is wonderful uplifting inspiring and mystical. And if you don't get it you are just blind, deaf, stubborn, dull, spiritually dead and/or just missing what the rest of us know as essential humanity."

Yeah, sure.:sleep:

 

[cottage]

Apparently the "information" is not transferable and the perspective is unique and so has meaning only to the one having it.

A kinda "I got it. You don't. And even if you did what you got wouldn't be what I got! Nonetheless it is wonderful uplifting inspiring and mystical. And if you don't get it you are just blind, deaf, stubborn, dull, spiritually dead and/or just missing what the rest of us know as essential humanity."

Yeah, sure.:sleep:

Oh! Omar! How could you be so cynical just when Wil is about to reveal the 'truth' to us? I'm confident we will at last have a full account of a spiritual experience

 

[zackcool]

Hi all,

This is surely the height of human vanity? And what may I venture to ask is the substance of this enlightenment, and what is revealed by the awakening?

On contrary,awareness is the exact opposite of vanity..
It makes you humble...
As to the substance of this enlightenment,its in the very character it
self...
You'll find yoursef to be more patient,loving ,caring and a lot more calm...
You'll find it easy departing with worldly things(eg :wealth),and anger seems to be but a distant past.
Knowing everything happens for a reason and while you'll find it hard to believe ,everything that happens is for the good of the universal spirit...
and you always have that little smile on your face...
Well this is what can be brought back to the communities anyway...
As to what is revealed by the awakening,its personal...

 

[Willamena]

Apparently the "information" is not transferable and the perspective is unique and so has meaning only to the one having it.

A kinda "I got it. You don't. And even if you did what you got wouldn't be what I got! Nonetheless it is wonderful uplifting inspiring and mystical. And if you don't get it you are just blind, deaf, stubborn, dull, spiritually dead and/or just missing what the rest of us know as essential humanity."

Yeah, sure.:sleep:

The dharma is transmittable, though. There are zillions of schools set up for just that purpose. But realization doesn't happen just by people talking at you on the Internet. (Some study for life-times.)

I think you're asking a bit too much.

 

[Willamena]

Okay.


What information? How is the perspective unique?

Information. Itself. All information. Where do you get information from? Books? Internet? What comes to you through your senses is also information. What you think and imagine are information. The whole world is information.

The perspective has been described as being a perspective on the world itself, on that world of information (including us, as are also formed of information).

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

I'm sure I'm grasping what it is that you're saying, but you haven't explained what you mean by it. The true self, if there may be such a thing, is who you are, what you do and the sum of your experience. But on hearing the term 'true self', I feel I'm being led to believe that there is some aspect distinct from the corporeal being that is blessed with a greater sense of knowing. This is surely the height of human vanity? And what may I venture to ask is the substance of this enlightenment, and what is revealed by the awakening?

What you describe here is the ego which in many is seen as an unchanging self or a constant. Some spiritual paths do not see the ego as the True Self but an "artificial" self created by culture, society and upbringing.

In Buddhism, the belief in the existence of an unchanging ātman (self/ego) is the prime consequence of ignorance, which is itself the cause of all misery.

The unchanging self/ego is the height of vanity.

 

[cottage]

Hi all,

On contrary,awareness is the exact opposite of vanity..
It makes you humble...
As to the substance of this enlightenment,its in the very character it
self...
You'll find yoursef to be more patient,loving ,caring and a lot more calm...
You'll find it easy departing with worldly things(eg :wealth),and anger seems to be but a distant past.
Knowing everything happens for a reason and while you'll find it hard to believe ,everything that happens is for the good of the universal spirit...
and you always have that little smile on your face...
Well this is what can be brought back to the communities anyway...
As to what is revealed by the awakening,its personal...

But by awarding attributes to yourself it would appear that we're back to human vanity once more. The fact is we see no evidence of believers being more patient, loving, caring, calmer etc. I'm frequently told by angry believers that I'm stubbornly blind and will suffer for not 'opening my heart' and seeking God, which sort of contradicts any intended benevolence. Indeed it would be wonderful if belief in deities truly did make people kinder and more tolerant to one another. But supernatural beliefs are commonly not about the human race, but more about the individual. And of course that makes perfect sense, because the self is always of prior concern.

 

[cottage]

The unchanging self/ego is the height of vanity.

I agree with you absolutely, but for entirely different reasons. The self is the height of vanity - because it is unchanging and unchangeable. Conceit makes us believe otherwise.

I look forward to your response.

 

[cottage]

Information. Itself. All information. Where do you get information from? Books? Internet? What comes to you through your senses is also information. What you think and imagine are information. The whole world is information.

The perspective has been described as being a perspective on the world itself, on that world of information (including us, as are also formed of information).

So, I look within myself, study my perceptions and then balance and adjust them in the light of worldly knowledge? But I thought that's what I'd been doing all along!
:thud:

 

[Willamena]

But I thought that's what I'd been doing all along!

No doubt that's what you thought.

We all did.