The NATO

[lewisnotmiller]

It's like a former President of the Republic here in my country exposed some crimes committed in the luxurious palaces of power.
How can people not believe him? He is such a reliable source.

He's biased, has a history of strong bias, was a state senator (so never in the palace of power...Virginia state legislature isn't deciding squat about foreign policy) and is 25 years out of the Armed Forces.

But if you want to believe him, be my guest. I'll blanch when you describe him as 'reliable' though.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Sure. If Russia will actually leave the Ukraine and give the "supposedly" annexed territories back. Otherwise, fight on.

I do not think that is going to happen. In that case, move to the countryside, pray that your country does not become involved, and if you have nukes, then keep the fingers on the buttons.

 

[LuisDantas]

I do not think that is going to happen. In that case, move to the countryside, pray that your country does not become involved, and if you have nukes, then keep the fingers on the buttons.

We will see.

International politics are hard to predict, particularly when there is actual military conflict. But it seems to me that this particular conflict has every chance of ending up with precisely the scenario that @The Hammer expects (incidentally, so do I).

Putin has very clear overextended himself. All conceivable scenarios resulting from this invasion involve variations of significant lessening of his power, perhaps most of all internally. His adventure has already cost Russia significant fractions of its military capability, diplomatic influence and long-term economic significance. Then there are the brain drain and actual exodus.

Sure, he will try his darnest to scrounge some appearance of victory from the debris of his hubris. But it may well be too late for even that. This time he has gone way too far for anyone to forget or forgive. How long he can remain in power now is a very relevant question with no clear answer. And once he is removed, there may be no willingness - or ability - to keep occupying even Crimea.

 

[LuisDantas]

So, since das Gesetz ist für alle gleich, I have the right to say I believe neither Obama nor Hillary. Both senators.

Your privilege. But it sure is weird that you would believe a wacko state senator in that case.

Or Trump, for that matter.

 

[Estro Felino]

Your privilege. But it sure is weird that you would believe a wacko state senator in that case.

Or Trump, for that matter.

In Europe there is nothing but chaos and turmoil right now. France, Germany, Italy...all protesting against this war and the NATO.

 

[LuisDantas]

In Europe there is nothing but chaos and turmoil right now. France, Germany, Italy...all protesting against this war and the NATO.

Do you mean to say that you want to believe that NATO can and will stop the war by refusing support to Ukraine?

 

[Estro Felino]

Do you mean to say that you want to believe that NATO can and will stop the war by refusing support to Ukraine?

Quite the opposite. The NATO can try at least to stop the war to favor negotiations between the belligerent parties.
But they will never do that, because as the senator said, their goal and purpose is to use Ukraine as proxy war battlefield and to use Ukrainians to wage a war against Putin.

 

[LuisDantas]

Quite the opposite. The NATO can try at least to stop the war to favor negotiations between the belligerent parties.
But they will never do that, because as the senator said, their goal and purpose is to use Ukraine as proxy war battlefield and to use Ukrainians to wage a war against Putin.

That is quite the jaundiced view far as I can figure it out.

I can't say I have much respect for it.

 

[Estro Felino]

That is quite the jaundiced view far as I can figure it out.

I can't say I have much respect for it.

Jaundiced...I like this word.
The people are filled with poison against the élites.
There is a Roman dialect saying that says: se er popolo è cattivo...è mejo.

 

[LuisDantas]

It seems to me that people tend to be overwilling to believe that there are simple solutions to complex challenges if a "bold enough" person is given power and political support.

That tends to result in tragedy.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Jaundiced...I like this word.
The people are poisoned against the élites.
There is a Roman dialect saying that says: se er popolo è cattivo...è mejo.

No, the people doesn't exist as you use it. Because we are different fractions with different views. So as long as you take for granted that you are the people and speak for the people, I will simply point out that it is not the case.

 

[Aupmanyav]

How long he can remain in power now is a very relevant question with no clear answer.

Agree with you and that is the worry.

 

[Estro Felino]

No, the people doesn't exist as you use it. Because we are different fractions with different views. So as long as you take for granted that you are the people and speak for the people, I will simply point out that it is not the case.

Minorities are irrelevant because democracy imposes the majority wins.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Minorities are irrelevant because democracy imposes the majority wins.

That is one view of democracy. There are other ones.

 

[Estro Felino]

That is one view of democracy. There are other ones.

...which are?
There are forms of democracy where the minority wins?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

...which are?
There are forms of democracy where the minority wins?

No, read this:
Democracy - Wikipedia

You use one understanding. I use another which include minority rights.

 

[Estro Felino]

No, read this:
Democracy - Wikipedia

You use one understanding. I use another which include minority rights.

Minorities are also financial and banking élites, by the way.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Minorities are also financial and banking élites, by the way.

No, you are a minority, since you are a lawyer.
Majority: All lawyers must be imprisoned.

 

[Estro Felino]

No, you are a minority, since you are a lawyer.
Majority: All lawyers must be imprisoned.

She is a lawyer too.

Many lawyers side with the people

 

[LuisDantas]

Minorities are irrelevant because democracy imposes the majority wins.

That is not democracy.