The Necessity Of Jesus

[exl2398]

Not sure this belongs here, but please move it to wherever it belongs, if not here! I'm new, so no burnings at the stake! I know how internet communities value organization, haha

I need for someone to explain to me why it is that Jesus is necessary for man to be saved in the Christian religion? Also, why must he have died? Is there another way the same supposed ends could have been achieved?

This is one of those things I fail to understand.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Neusner offers an interesting perspective.

 

[Super Universe]

Not sure this belongs here, but please move it to wherever it belongs, if not here! I'm new, so no burnings at the stake! I know how internet communities value organization, haha

I need for someone to explain to me why it is that Jesus is necessary for man to be saved in the Christian religion? Also, why must he have died? Is there another way the same supposed ends could have been achieved?

This is one of those things I fail to understand.

We've always been saved. Jesus just reaffirmed what was already so since the beginning.

Why did Jesus die? To release His Soul.

Is there another way the same ends could be achieved? There's more going on than you know. Before Christ could take His place He had to complete His bestowal mission (be human) so He could then assume His leadership position over this part of the universe. Christ had to have a human experience in order to understand us. Christ now controls the access to the higher dimensions and heaven, this is why He said "No one comes to the Father except through me."

 

[Aasimar]

Not sure this belongs here, but please move it to wherever it belongs, if not here! I'm new, so no burnings at the stake! I know how internet communities value organization, haha

I need for someone to explain to me why it is that Jesus is necessary for man to be saved in the Christian religion? Also, why must he have died? Is there another way the same supposed ends could have been achieved?

This is one of those things I fail to understand.

I'm with ya here. The problem you will run into is that there are a countless number of other ways the same supposed ends could have been achieved. If it was god, he could have sacrificed a yam to save all of mankind, or just forgiven them for no reason.

In comes "Faith."

You must have faith that God had a reason for doing things the way he did. You must commit yourself to never questioning his reason, or if you dislike the logic of the answer, ignoring it. I for one put no stock in faith, so this is a pretty easy decision for me. So the real question for you is do feel that faith in "him" is enough. Because there is not, and can not, ever be a logical reason for God to sacrifice himself to himself to allow vicarious redemption of those he created for acting in the manner in which he created them. It's absolute madness.

 

[John_672]

Not sure this belongs here, but please move it to wherever it belongs, if not here! I'm new, so no burnings at the stake! I know how internet communities value organization, haha

I need for someone to explain to me why it is that Jesus is necessary for man to be saved in the Christian religion? Also, why must he have died? Is there another way the same supposed ends could have been achieved?

This is one of those things I fail to understand.

Heh. You probably want to ask that question here to get a Christian's response to your question. Personally, I think much of what Jesus said in the Bible is either taken out of context or was possibly written down incorrectly. I think what Jesus was trying to say is that the only way to salvation would be through his example. This is just a guess, however.

 

[Salaam]

I'm not sure if you're looking for a Christian only answer or what.. but hey..

Jesus was not necessary, Jesus IS the Messiah, PBUH, however, and he wil lreturn one day to set everyone straight, but for sins, we are all responsible for our own sins... for example, the OT clearly says that no man can EVER, by ANY means, redeem his brethren, and that we are all responsible for our own sins, so to say that Jesus died for anyone's sins, is not only untruer according to the OT Christians say they follow, it is in complete contradiction..

take a look..

"No man can by any means redeem his brother, or give to God a ransom for
him" (Psalms 49:7). - so how can Jesus have done exactly that when it is said right there i nthe Bible that it is IMPOSSIBLE?

in Islam, ofcourse, we believe him to be a great Prophet and Messenger, but no deity, the only way to rdemption is through God's mercy, not Jesus' blood, God forgives Whom He pleases, to say he can not forgive someone wh oasks for forgiveness is not only cruel, but also in contradiction with His Mercifull Being.

infact, Christians are so hardcore i ntherir belief that God can NOT forgive sins, that the Christian mainstream theology on ANYONE AND EVERYONE wh odied before Jesus, such as say Adam, Ibrahim, and Moses, PBUT all, according to modern Christianity, Moses, Ibrahim, and Adam, and all the other prophets who came before Jesus(pbut) all went to HELL after they died!, I'm dead serious! Christians believe the Prophet who brought mankind teh Torah went to hell after he died! because God didnt accept their repentance!



_______________________________________

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]"And behold! Allah will say: ‘O Isa, son of Maryam was it you who said to the [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]people [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]"Take me and my[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]mother for[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]two deities[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]besides[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Allah?" He will say: "Glory to be to You! It is not fit[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]for me to say[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [SIZE=-1]what is not[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]right for me (to[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]utter). If I had said that, You would then[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]have known it indeed.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]You know[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]what is in my mind,[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]while I do not know what is[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]in Your mind. Surely you are[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]the great[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Knower of hidden matter[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]"I did not say to them anything except about what You had ordered me, namely,[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]"serve[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Allah, my[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Rabb and your Rabb" and I was witness over them so long as I[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]was with them,[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]but when you[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]caused me to die[/SIZE][SIZE=-1], You were Watcher over[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]them.[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [SIZE=-1]And You are a[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Witness over all things"[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

-The Holy Quran[/SIZE]

 

[Aasimar]

Easy with the caps please

 

[Mr. Peanut]

I need for someone to explain to me why it is that Jesus is necessary for man to be saved in the Christian religion? Also, why must he have died? Is there another way the same supposed ends could have been achieved?

This is one of those things I fail to understand.

In the Christian religion, Jesus is necessary for man to be saved because all men have sinned, separating them from a holy God. The penalty for sin is death, so Christ died, paying the penalty for all the sins of all the world. Whoever trusts Jesus to have paid for all their sins is granted eternal life freely, Their sin debt having been paid in full and Christ's righteousness chalked up to their account. That is how I understand it, anyhow.

Cheers!

 

[PureX]

Jesus isn't necessary, it's Christ that's necessary. Jesus was the exemplification of Christ for us to follow. Christ is a way of being. More specifically, Christ is the way of allowing ourselves to become the expressions of God's love and forgiveness in the flesh. And it's through this love and forgiveness that we are healed and saved from ourselves. It's also through this love and forgiveness that we can help others to be healed and saved from themselves. The significance of Jesus death is to show us that we must "die to ourselves" so that we can become living exemplifications of God's love and forgiveness: become Christ-ians. Jesus taught us that when we let go of ourselves (our egos and self-centered fears and desires), and allow God to live in our hearts and this world through us, we actually will find ours selves fulfilled, even though initially it doesn't seem that way.

 

[look3467]

The creation of the flesh required separation from the spirit of God, as in “two becoming one flesh” or a living soul.
That separation caused the death of the flesh.

The death of the spirit was caused by the gaining of knowledge, the ability to reason, to make choices, to know the difference between good and evil.
In so doing we became as gods, rulers of our own kingdoms.

There can be only one God, ruler of the whole universe and no other gods besides Him in which all other gods must die.

Having said all that, God had to re-create a new kingdom, one which has no death, no end and is the salvation of all mankind.

Jesus is that new creation, the first of all creation and the vehicle for the salvation of all mankind, both Jew and Gentile.

Being that there can be only one God, there can be many members of that one body, that, one new creation by which all mankind may have life by.

That is why Jesus becomes the way, the truth and the life, because He is the tree of life held back from Adam and Eve and revealed to us at a later time, an appointed time, which was over 2000 years ago.

Now, we can all part take of that tree, freely given to all who would take of it.

There is absolutely no restrictions , just give Him your heart.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[ChristineES]

Zola Levitt compared Jesus to the Passover Lamb. Read in Exodus about the 10th plague for details.
My own input: In the Old Covenant, the Israelites were required to sacrifice their best lamb (one without blemish) to atone for their sins (they would eat the lamb afterwards). Jesus was used in place of that lamb. In order for Him to be a sacrifice, He had to be unblemished-- someone who never sinned. That is how it was explained in the New Testament. Since people can't eat human flesh, they ate bread in place of Jesus flesh.

 

[look3467]

Zola Levitt compared Jesus to the Passover Lamb. Read in Exodus about the 10th plague for details.
My own input: In the Old Covenant, the Israelites were required to sacrifice their best lamb (one without blemish) to atone for their sins (they would eat the lamb afterwards). Jesus was used in place of that lamb. In order for Him to be a sacrifice, He had to be unblemished-- someone who never sinned. That is how it was explained in the New Testament. Since people can't eat human flesh, they ate bread in place of Jesus flesh.

The bread represents the broken body of Christ, while the blood (wine) is the uniting factor of all the broken pieces. (Humanity)

What we eat is not a literal eating, but a diagesting of the words of Jesus.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Just_me_Mike]

It would help to understand what God required in the Old Testament to atone for sin. From there the purpose of Jesus becomes visible. As the atonement offered and required in the Old Testament did nothing to actually save a person.

 

[look3467]

It would help to understand what God required in the Old Testament to atone for sin. From there the purpose of Jesus becomes visible. As the atonement offered and required in the Old Testament did nothing to actually save a person.

That is the correct understanding by me!

Blessings, AJ

 

[Mr Cheese]

becuase Jesus is the unification of all opposites...

but thats an esoteric not exoteric christian perspective, well it is expressed in exoteric christianity, but moat main stream christians have no iea of it, and just ignore it.

 

[look3467]

OK, I'll agree with you on that.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Morse]

There has been a lot of christian perspective, or at least people putting forth a christian perspective. I know that you may want a christian perspective, but it wasn't placed in the christian forums (By accident or on purpose, not my concern).

So off I go..

I don't think that Jesus was necessary. Of course, we are assuming that the bible is more than a pretty piece of literature at this moment. I believe (as someone mentioned before?) that Jesus the person was setting an example. I don't think he meant the only way to attain salvation is by accepting him as your savior. Its very possible that this literal translation fails, and what it very well could mean is, "Be a good person".

So, was Jesus necessary? No, it could have been anybody with the right moxy.

Did he have to die? Well, dying is very poignant, isn't it? Makes quite a statement.

But then again, Abrahamic religion isn't really my bailiwick, so I may very well find myself conceding.

 

[zenzero]

Friend exl2398,

The Necessity Of Jesus
Not sure this belongs here, but please move it to wherever it belongs, if not here! I'm new, so no burnings at the stake! I know how internet communities value organization, haha

I need for someone to explain to me why it is that Jesus is necessary for man to be saved in the Christian religion? Also, why must he have died? Is there another way the same supposed ends could have been achieved?

This is one of those things I fail to understand

Personal understanding is that Jesus like many other Buddhas keep coming. existence remains without any beginning or end.
It is important for Christianity as an organisation to uphold the values of Jesus's teachings for its own survival.

In other words
Jesus never required Christianity for his survival but Christianity requires Jesus for its survival.

Love & rgds

 

[Metempsychosis]

but moat main stream christians have no idea of it, and just ignore it.

They never have had.

 

[Mr Cheese]

They never have had.

of course not

or you wouldnt have monks, nuns, contemplatives and mystics

but the esoteric is a part of the exoteric....and because they are entangled and inseperable.... it does mean that occaisonally a fish can fall through the net..into a deeper "understanding"

which is why, unlike you, I am not anti religious....

I'm not pro either though