The Necessity Of Jesus

[look3467]

where are you getting your information? I said Jews don't believe in human sacrifice, it is against the laws of Torah, so there was never a human sacrifice among Jews of any kind. So Jesus couldn't possibly be an end to anything. Jesus wasn't there when the temple was destroyed so he couldn't end anything anyways, and no one can end priesthood because it is given to Kohen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Jesus has nothing to do with it.

I have no clue where you guys get you information, anything Christianity has to offer HAS to be based on Judaism and information provided with in it, other wise the information is a wild guess, or you guys just say what you want even if doesn't make any sense.

The Jews did not sacrifice Jesus as like a sacrificial lamb. That you will agree with.

What you probably won't agree with is that God offered His Son as a sacrificial lamb to be offered up by the Jewish High priests without their knowledge of doing so.

Here are some scriptures to back that up: Act 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

2Sa 7:14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:


Beaten with the rod of man, whipped, as with stripes, Jesus was lead to the cross.

One lamb: Eze 45:15 And one lamb out of the flock, out of two hundred, out of the fat pastures of Israel; for a meat offering, and for a burnt offering, and for peace offerings, to make reconciliation for them, saith the Lord GOD.

Joh 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!


Jesus was the end of the Leviticus priesthood as for sacrifices, because He Himself became the sacrifical lamb of God for both Jew and Greek.

Blessings, AJ

 

[love]

I'm not sure if you're looking for a Christian only answer or what.. but hey..

Jesus was not necessary, Jesus IS the Messiah, PBUH, however, and he wil lreturn one day to set everyone straight, but for sins, we are all responsible for our own sins... for example, the OT clearly says that no man can EVER, by ANY means, redeem his brethren, and that we are all responsible for our own sins, so to say that Jesus died for anyone's sins, is not only untruer according to the OT Christians say they follow, it is in complete contradiction..

take a look..

"No man can by any means redeem his brother, or give to God a ransom for
him" (Psalms 49:7). - so how can Jesus have done exactly that when it is said right there i nthe Bible that it is IMPOSSIBLE?

in Islam, ofcourse, we believe him to be a great Prophet and Messenger, but no deity, the only way to rdemption is through God's mercy, not Jesus' blood, God forgives Whom He pleases, to say he can not forgive someone wh oasks for forgiveness is not only cruel, but also in contradiction with His Mercifull Being.

infact, Christians are so hardcore i ntherir belief that God can NOT forgive sins, that the Christian mainstream theology on ANYONE AND EVERYONE wh odied before Jesus, such as say Adam, Ibrahim, and Moses, PBUT all, according to modern Christianity, Moses, Ibrahim, and Adam, and all the other prophets who came before Jesus(pbut) all went to HELL after they died!, I'm dead serious! Christians believe the Prophet who brought mankind teh Torah went to hell after he died! because God didnt accept their repentance

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]"And behold! Allah will say: ‘O Isa, son of Maryam was it you who said to the [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]people [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]"Take me and my[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]mother for[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]two deities[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]besides[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Allah?" He will say: "Glory to be to You! It is not fit[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]for me to say[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [SIZE=-1]what is not[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]right for me (to[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]utter). If I had said that, You would then[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]have known it indeed.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]You know[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]what is in my mind,[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]while I do not know what is[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]in Your mind. Surely you are[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]the great[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Knower of hidden matter[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]"I did not say to them anything except about what You had ordered me, namely,[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]"serve[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Allah, my[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Rabb and your Rabb" and I was witness over them so long as I[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]was with them,[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]but when you[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]caused me to die[/SIZE][SIZE=-1], You were Watcher over[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]them.[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [SIZE=-1]And You are a[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Witness over all things"[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

-The Holy Quran[/SIZE]

Why would you think that Christians put limitations on who God is able to forgive? Do you not know God forgives whom He chooses. I, as a Christian am grateful for God's mercy. For me to say anyone is not forgiven and destined to hell would be like me judging and comdemning them by their action or inaction while at the same time justifying my salvation by my action or inaction.
In this world the common man is judged by someone with the power and authority to send you to prison or even death in some circumstances who has never walked in their shoes. Christ was judged and sentenced to death by these types of people.
Even though the current rate of death for human beings is 100%, fear of death is one of the most common fears.
Christ passed through death and came back and told us it would be okay. He will be our judge and He knows injustice first hand. I believe we are insured a fair trial.

 

[look3467]

"No man can by any means redeem his brother, or give to God a ransom for
him" (Psalms 49:7). - so how can Jesus have done exactly that when it is said right there i nthe Bible that it is IMPOSSIBLE?

Dear friend, the verse quoted is in reference to Jesus on the cross hoping that even at that point, there might still be a ransom for Him.

The point is that unless Jesus alone as God, ransoms us, (Brother) there can by no means be any ransom paid.

Blessings, AJ

 

[love]

[

quote=look3467;1886816]Dear friend, the verse quoted is in reference to Jesus on the cross hoping that even at that point, there might still be a ransom for Him.

The point is that unless Jesus alone as God, ransoms us, (Brother) there can by no means be any ransom paid.

Blessings, AJ

Thank you for clarifying that. It is our hope that Christ as fully God and fully man has cleared the way. Christ said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Light."

 

[look3467]

[


Thank you for clarifying that. It is our hope that Christ as fully God and fully man has cleared the way. Christ said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Light."

May God be blessed above all there is and inhabit the praises of all His saints, for we can now sing a new song, "for He has cleared the way".

For I am freed indeed!

Thank you Jesus!

Blessings, AJ

 

[jaareshiah]

In order to ransom mankind from sin and death, a perfect man exactly like Adam was required. As Psalms 49:7 says, that "not one of them ("of them", Hebrew word ish meaning "man, a person or individual") can by any means redeem even a brother, nor give to God a ransom for him;"

Hence, no man or imperfect individual, all who were born from Adam, can provide the necessary ransom for mankind, much less than for himself. Only a perfect man could provide the ransom for mankind. And Jesus was the only perfect man to walk the face of the earth that equaled what Adam was before his defection, a perfect man, in order to balance God's scales of justice.

Jesus had to provide the basis for atonement of our sins. As used in the Bible, “atonement” (Hebrew, Ka·phar´, basically meaning, "at one" ) has the basic thought of “cover” or “exchange,” and that which is given in exchange for, or as a “cover” for, another thing must be its duplicate. Thus, anything making satisfaction for something that is lost or forfeited must be “at one” with that other thing, completely covering it as its exact equivalent. There must be no overlapping and no coming short. No imperfect human could provide such a covering or atonement to restore perfect human life to any or all of mankind. (Ps 49:7, 8) To make adequate atonement for what was forfeited by Adam, a sin offering having the precise value of a perfect human life would have to be provided.

At 1 Corinthians 15:45, the apostle Paul wrote that "It is even so written; "the first man Adam became a living soul," The last Adam became a life-giving spirit." Thus, Jesus, as the "last Adam" had to measure as an equal to what Adam was before his rebellion - a perfect human, to atone or "cover" the sins of the "many" that Jesus said at Matthew 20:28.

Thus, only someone who was Adam's exact equivalent in human perfection before his rebellion in the Garden of Eden would be accepted by God. This is God's justice, which required that a perfect man be given for the perfect man Adam. Since Adam was not God, but rather his handiwork, true justice demanded that the "last Adam" be also as Adam was before his defection, a perfect man of flesh and blood, created by God. Hence, Jesus was not God incarnate, but came from God to become mankind's ransomer.(John 3:16, 17)

 

[gzusfrk]

Jesus was a way to get a sinful being into a holy place.

 

[arimoff]

Jesus was self called messiah who wanted more attention then he got, he played against the rules so at the end he got what he deserved.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Jesus was self called messiah who wanted more attention then he got, he played against the rules so at the end he got what he deserved.

Just a stones throw away on another thread, you speak of how disgusted you are, of how other portray your religion.

The fires of religious animosity are so spread out, do you think it really needs more fuel?

 

[arimoff]

Just a stones throw away on another thread, you speak of how disgusted you are, of how other portray your religion.

The fires of religious animosity are so spread out, do you think it really needs more fuel?

Not at all, but there is a difference when you say something to prove your point regardless of the facts, and when you say what is the truth.

Why should I play along with some one and lie to make him happy and not hate me? It is that person who should admit the truth even if it is against his view but its the truth, with out fueling him self to hate.

I did not lie, Jesus was Jewish and everything happening around him concerned only Jews, so thats why he go what he deserved, and there is absolutely no need for strangers to come in and tell us what we did right or wrong using our scripture.

There has to be a line drown of what people can't cross and respect you other wise eventually they will claim your spot. As if Christianity is the new Judaism.

 

[arimoff]

The Jews did not sacrifice Jesus as like a sacrificial lamb. That you will agree with.

We didn't even kill him.

What you probably won't agree with is that God offered His Son as a sacrificial lamb to be offered up by the Jewish High priests without their knowledge of doing so.

I can't agree to that because it is not supported by Torah.

Here are some scriptures to back that up: Act 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

lol, Act 3;18 was written after Jesus died, so how can it be proving anything? even more then that, to me as a Jew your scriptures are not kosher, they are not part of the Torah

2Sa 7:14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:

for the millionth time it is talking about Israel.

Beaten with the rod of man, whipped, as with stripes, Jesus was lead to the cross.

Tell me how can an educated man see a cross from the source sa7:14, they did not know what cross is, it is not their way of punishment.

One lamb: Eze 45:15 And one lamb out of the flock, out of two hundred, out of the fat pastures of Israel; for a meat offering, and for a burnt offering, and for peace offerings, to make reconciliation for them, saith the Lord GOD.

And? again what does it have to do with Jesus? i thought we agreed that Jews don't bring human sacrifice, even if we say for example it is a human being, why Jesus? what good has he done among Jewish people to be chosen? He snitched on his own people, not a good image and not deserving to be sacrificed.

Joh 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
Jesus was the end of the Leviticus priesthood as for sacrifices, because He Himself became the sacrifical lamb of God for both Jew and Greek.

Said who? none of the sacrifices are for Greeks, they are for Jewish people, show at least one source in the Torah witch can back up your claims?

Moshiach will rebuild the temple and sacrifices will be brought to G-D again, so if Jesus is the moshiach and he will rebuild the temple how can he be the end?

 

[look3467]

In order to ransom mankind from sin and death, a perfect man exactly like Adam was required. As Psalms 49:7 says, that "not one of them ("of them", Hebrew word ish meaning "man, a person or individual") can by any means redeem even a brother, nor give to God a ransom for him;"

Hence, no man or imperfect individual, all who were born from Adam, can provide the necessary ransom for mankind, much less than for himself. Only a perfect man could provide the ransom for mankind. And Jesus was the only perfect man to walk the face of the earth that equaled what Adam was before his defection, a perfect man, in order to balance God's scales of justice.

Jesus had to provide the basis for atonement of our sins. As used in the Bible, “atonement” (Hebrew, Ka·phar´, basically meaning, "at one" ) has the basic thought of “cover” or “exchange,” and that which is given in exchange for, or as a “cover” for, another thing must be its duplicate. Thus, anything making satisfaction for something that is lost or forfeited must be “at one” with that other thing, completely covering it as its exact equivalent. There must be no overlapping and no coming short. No imperfect human could provide such a covering or atonement to restore perfect human life to any or all of mankind. (Ps 49:7, 8) To make adequate atonement for what was forfeited by Adam, a sin offering having the precise value of a perfect human life would have to be provided.

At 1 Corinthians 15:45, the apostle Paul wrote that "It is even so written; "the first man Adam became a living soul," The last Adam became a life-giving spirit." Thus, Jesus, as the "last Adam" had to measure as an equal to what Adam was before his rebellion - a perfect human, to atone or "cover" the sins of the "many" that Jesus said at Matthew 20:28.

Thus, only someone who was Adam's exact equivalent in human perfection before his rebellion in the Garden of Eden would be accepted by God. This is God's justice, which required that a perfect man be given for the perfect man Adam. Since Adam was not God, but rather his handiwork, true justice demanded that the "last Adam" be also as Adam was before his defection, a perfect man of flesh and blood, created by God. Hence, Jesus was not God incarnate, but came from God to become mankind's ransomer.(John 3:16, 17)

I was agree ing with all the way except for the last sentence quote, "Jesus was not God incarnate".

I direct you to this verse: Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them (meaning Jesus) at that day ( meaning the day of the cross) shall be as David; ( as a descendant of David) and the house of David shall be as God, (House of David shall be at that day as God)as the angel of the LORD before them.

Who shall build my house? Definite not King Salomon.

Psa 127:1 <A Song of degrees for Solomon.> Except the LORD build the house, ( Heb 9:11) they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city,( the watchman waketh but in vain.

Neither the house built with hands nor the nation of Israel can in any way ransom mankind, save God Himself.

And .......He did, in Jesus.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

We didn't even kill him.

No, you didn't directly. The Levitical Priesthood was given the responsibility of offering animal sacrifices.
By all intents and means, the nation of Israel was the favored of God to instruct the world of His laws.
Israel was as like the first born child, set to be the inheritors of the kingdom of God.

One problem! The rest of the world was lest out.

Therefore, God sent Jesus as like the second born child, to the nation of Israel as their deliverer.

But because God blinded the nation of Israel by the letter of the law, Jesus was rejected.

Jesus was/is not seen as the Savior, for the rejection, thus considered a blasphemer and worthy of death. Ref: Mat 26:65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.


Blinded by the letter of the Torah, one can not see grace, but the law.

The Torah says: Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Lev 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.


You see, God understood exactly what He was doing using the Jews as an instrument in His hand, in reaching out to the rest of the world.

Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

The Jews in partner with Jesus does God bring salvation to the world, to where: Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Thus it pleased God that His Son should suffer for the sins of the world:

Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

I can understand your strong stance on the Torah, so did the High priests at the time of Jesus.

You see, when Jesus said: “Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus was then ending the work of the levitical priesthood, instituting you, I as priests unto God, offering spiritual sacrifices.

Ref: Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The nation of Israel is redeemed, for the blindness upon them was Gods doing.

Joh 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

As a believer in Christ, I can appreciate the standard of stubbornness towards the law in the Torah, the Jews adhere to, for in that, salvation has come unto the world.

Likewise, Jesus said about the Jews: Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

Thus forgiven!

Blessings, AJ

 

[Zardoz]

No, you didn't directly. The Levitical Priesthood was given the responsibility of offering animal sacrifices...

What does these two statements two have to do with each other?

One problem! The rest of the world was lest out.

No, not left out at all. Other nations offered sacrifice at the Temple, and those that didn't, offerings were made on their behalf. Many came to learn G-d's law.

But because God blinded the nation of Israel by the letter of the law, Jesus was rejected.

Our G-d didn't blind us with the Torah, he gave it to us as a bond, not unlike the bond of Husband and Wife. The Idol that Paul made out of Yeshua was rejected.

Blinded by the letter of the Torah, one can not see grace, but the law.

There you go with this 'blinded' nonsense again, we Jews know what G-d's Grace is.

...I can appreciate the standard of stubbornness towards the law in the Torah, the Jews adhere to, for in that, salvation has come unto the world.

Incorrect, Righteousness has come into the world through the Torah, but Salvation is through G-d's Grace. Only G-d's Grace.

 

[jaareshiah]

I was agree ing with all the way except for the last sentence quote, "Jesus was not God incarnate".

I direct you to this verse: Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them (meaning Jesus) at that day ( meaning the day of the cross) shall be as David; ( as a descendant of David) and the house of David shall be as God, (House of David shall be at that day as God)as the angel of the LORD before them.

Who shall build my house? Definite not King Salomon.

Psa 127:1 <A Song of degrees for Solomon.> Except the LORD build the house, ( Heb 9:11) they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city,( the watchman waketh but in vain.

Neither the house built with hands nor the nation of Israel can in any way ransom mankind, save God Himself.

And .......He did, in Jesus.

Blessings, AJ

In order for Jesus to atone for the sins of mankind, a person equal to Adam, not God, was required. God put within the Mosaic Law this principle of justice: "soul will be for soul, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot."(Deut 19:21) It was Adam that sinned, not God. That is why the word atonement in the Bible, as seen through the Hebrew word Ka·phar´, means "at one" or that which is equal to that which was lost. God is One of justice, requiring an exact equivalent, for at Deuteronomy 32:4, Moses says of God, that "the Rock, perfect is his activity, for all his ways are justice".

That is why the apostle Paul wrote: "It is even so written: &#8220;The first man Adam became a living soul.&#8221; The last Adam became a life-giving spirit."(1 Cor 15:45) Upon his baptism in 29 C.E., Jesus became equal to Adam in all respects, a perfect man, not God incarnate. Had he been God, this would have upset the scales of justice.

As God directed, the Israelites were to offer sacrifices as sin offerings in order to make atonement. (Ex 29:36; Lev 4:20) Of particular significance was the annual Atonement Day, when Israel&#8217;s high priest offered animal sacrifices and made atonement for himself, for the other Levites, and for the nonpriestly tribes of Israel. (Lev 16) Sacrificial animals were to be unblemished, indicating the necessity of perfection on the part of their antitype. Also, that atonement is a costly matter is shown in that the victim&#8217;s life was given, its blood being shed to make atonement. (Lev 17:11)

The Christian Greek Scriptures, commonly called the "New Testament", plainly link complete atonement for human sins with Jesus Christ. In him the types and shadows of the Mosaic Law find fulfillment, since he is the very One to whom the various animal sacrifices thereof pointed forward. As a perfect, sinless human, Jesus was the sin offering for all of Adam&#8217;s descendants who eventually are delivered from inherited sin and death. (2Co 5:21) Christ &#8220;offered one sacrifice for sins perpetually&#8221; (Heb 10:12), and he is unquestionably &#8220;the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.&#8221; (John 1:29, 36) Hence, Jesus is the "Lamb of God", not "God the Lamb".

Furthermore, the apostle Paul wrote: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all."(1 Tim 2:5, 6) Thus, Jesus provided the ransom price needed, "a corresponding ransom", a perfect man equal to perfect man, Adam.

 

[look3467]

Quote:
Originally Posted by look3467
No, you didn't directly. The Levitical Priesthood was given the responsibility of offering animal sacrifices...

What does these two statements two have to do with each other?

Was it not the high priests accusing Jesus a blasphemer, worthy of death?

They were the ones chosen to offer Jesus up without their really understanding God's motive behind it.

Quote:
One problem! The rest of the world was lest out.
No, not left out at all. Other nations offered sacrifice at the Temple, and those that didn't, offerings were made on their behalf. Many came to learn G-d's law.

The temple was one temple right? How about the other people born around the world not having access to the temple?

Quote:
But because God blinded the nation of Israel by the letter of the law, Jesus was rejected.
Our G-d didn't blind us with the Torah, he gave it to us as a bond, not unlike the bond of Husband and Wife. The Idol that Paul made out of Yeshua was rejected.

That only shows your blindness remains to this day.

Quote:
Blinded by the letter of the Torah, one can not see grace, but the law.
There you go with this 'blinded' nonsense again, we Jews know what G-d's Grace is.

We? Had you seen, experienced, believed with your heart the Son of God, then and only then would you understand just what grace is.

God's grace is based on the grace given Jesus in our place, not grace given as our merited works.

Quote:
...I can appreciate the standard of stubbornness towards the law in the Torah, the Jews adhere to, for in that, salvation has come unto the world.
Incorrect, Righteousness has come into the world through the Torah, but Salvation is through G-d's Grace. Only G-d's Grace.

Well, again, if grace was meted out by obedience to the Torah, then we all die by the Torah. (The law kills)

If God had not sent Jesus to stand in our place by fulfilling the Torah for us, we would still be without hope.

Listen, my heart goes out to the nation of Israel because of their sufferings, yet we were all in the same lost condition, were it not for Jesus taken our place in Judgment.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

In order for Jesus to atone for the sins of mankind, a person equal to Adam, not God, was required. God put within the Mosaic Law this principle of justice: "soul will be for soul, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot."(Deut 19:21) It was Adam that sinned, not God. That is why the word atonement in the Bible, as seen through the Hebrew word Ka·phar´, means "at one" or that which is equal to that which was lost. God is One of justice, requiring an exact equivalent, for at Deuteronomy 32:4, Moses says of God, that "the Rock, perfect is his activity, for all his ways are justice".

You are correct in Adam for Adam.

But I would like for you to look at it this way, the second Adam (A type of the first) is the beginning of mankind.

The first beginning, became lost! Because it brought the flesh and the will.

The second Adam converts the dead soul in us by giving us life, thus, the beginning of eternity.

That is why a rebirth is necessary.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Zardoz]

...The temple was one temple right? How about the other people born around the world not having access to the temple?

As I said, offerings were made on behalf of all nations.

That only shows your blindness remains to this day.

We? Had you seen, experienced, believed with your heart the Son of God, then and only then would you understand just what grace is.

God's grace is based on the grace given Jesus in our place, not grace given as our merited works...

Did I say 'merited works' or anything about works? Did I not say Grace? Quit putting words in my mouth.

Well, again, if grace was meted out by obedience to the Torah, then we all die by the Torah. (The law kills)

Again, I didn't say that. The law Kills? What a perverted view of G-d's good and holy gift to man.

If God had not sent Jesus to stand in our place by fulfilling the Torah for us, we would still be without hope.

You would be without hope, maybe.

 

[Zardoz]

Just a stones throw away on another thread, you speak of how disgusted you are, of how other portray your religion.

The fires of religious animosity are so spread out, do you think it really needs more fuel?

It seems to me we Jews get more than our fair share of hate inspired posts on these forums, so excuse us it we seem a bit fed up at times, and retort in kind.

 

[arimoff]

It seems to me we Jews get more than our fair share of hate inspired posts on these forums, so excuse us it we seem a bit fed up at times, and retort in kind.

they are full of it brother, just ignore lol.