The ONLY religious question!

[Thief]

Can you rephrase this post in plain english? This isn't a poetry forum, it's a debate forum, fyi.

rephrase hoping for a chance to circumvent?

I think you understand

 

[Comfounded languages]

Sorry, had to post this, after having just had a rant in another thread...

To everyone who has a religious belief that the hold to be "the Truth," or "the only way to salvation," I want to ask this one simple question:

What the hell do you think you know that everybody else doesn't? How can you be so blindly stupid as to imagine for yourself a God that could make his truth known to you -- but was utterly powerless to make it known to everybody else?

Frustration causes people to react different. Some lash out some seek to resolve the issue. Hove or whatever that may be.
God is Love. Most people who don't know Love claim they do.. Walk in love and you will find truth. Not my truth but the truth. I used to conform to some religious idiocratic dogma it wasn't because I was stupid it was out of ignorance and self-rightousness. I strive to walk in Love now not ignorance but I'm sure I pissed alot of people like you off on the way. I'm sorry.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Edit: And as a parent you want to child to verify everything you say. You want your child to demand the basic truth's of life. Me I want my child to be happy, I want my child to have faith in me.

If that child does not want to have faith in you, it will hurt; and, that is that child's choice. If that child feels happy not to have faith in you, why do you have a right to punish him for his decision?

Your decision and wants does not define who the child is to himself. When he grows older, he makes his own decisions. With or without you, as a parent, it will be hard but you'd have to handle his decisions because you took that role of a parent. You shouldn't do anything but to love him as much as you can without having reservations for your love.

Faith in someone show's how much you love them. Truth is about how needy you are or how much you distrust. A god of love is going to see faith as a much higher calling.

Many people and gods love. Hindu gods love just as abrahamic just as people. We have a choice to choose who we want to love in return. We shouldn't need to feel coerced for making a only one decision that we have the ability to make many.

 

[JustWondering]

rephrase hoping for a chance to circumvent?

I think you understand

Actually I didn't, or I would have responded like I have to other posts you've made. Honestly I don't understand the point you're trying to make half the time. Plain english would be nice.

 

[bobhikes]

If that child does not want to have faith in you, it will hurt; and, that is that child's choice. If that child feels happy not to have faith in you, why do you have a right to punish him for his decision?

Your decision and wants does not define who the child is to himself. When he grows older, he makes his own decisions. With or without you, as a parent, it will be hard but you'd have to handle his decisions because you took that role of a parent. You shouldn't do anything but to love him as much as you can without having reservations for your love.



Many people and gods love. Hindu gods love just as abrahamic just as people. We have a choice to choose who we want to love in return. We shouldn't need to feel coerced for making a only one decision that we have the ability to make many.

I am talking about the differences between Truth and Faith. I would never harm a child. God is different than a parent in that we never grow to be God's equal. I don't doubt many people have gods of love, there are many types of God's. I was asked a few questions specifically about the Abrahamic God. I would never force anyone to make a decision period.

 

[Thief]

Actually I didn't, or I would have responded like I have to other posts you've made. Honestly I don't understand the point you're trying to make half the time. Plain english would be nice.

You have a choice....
Life, greater than your own?
or no life at all after death

denial will lead you to the grave

expectation and preparation might allow a continuance

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Ima take a child out so to not make it personal

Truth and faith are one and the same.

The decision that god wants does not define who people are. When we grow older, we make our own decisions. With or without god, as a creaotr, it would be hard to handle the decisions of people who wish not to love him; and, because he is a creator, that's the role and consequence he has to bare. No one should get an ultimatum (either be saved or don't live with god's love) to follow god. His charity should have no reservations.

Many people and gods love. Hindu gods love just as abrahamic just as people. We have a choice to choose who we want to love in return. We shouldn't need to feel coerced for making a only one decision that we have the ability to make many.

I am talking about the differences between Truth and Faith. I would never harm a child. God is different than a parent in that we never grow to be God's equal. I don't doubt many people have gods of love, there are many types of God's. I was asked a few questions specifically about the Abrahamic God. I would never force anyone to make a decision period.

Creator and parent have the same roles as an authority that takes care of christians (former) and his children (latter). God gives an ultimatum to believe in him not force. It's like any parent who says "if you don' love me, you will have consequences and you have the choice to not love me and I give you the decision to make that choice." It is also a form of giving that person a guilt-trip.

Instead, my point, is that a parent/creator and child/children of god should be equal in that both are treated as each other wants to be treated. It should be a two-way relationship not one-sided.

I see no love in a one-sided relationship. God's authority should not make a difference if he, in deed, became human not god to be our equal in order to die for childrens and save them from their sins. Without that equality in christ, there is no love.

 

[shmogie]

THAT IS the point. "Everyone knew" that which was popular, but wrong. Galileo knew they were wrong, and paid for his brilliance and humility with "house arrest for life" for confronting ignorance without respect of the persons.

Hm m m m! Isn't that kinda familiar?



Because it is a matter of truth, not popular view.

Correct. Absolutely correct. But Christ asked " what is truth ? "

 

[bobhikes]

Ima take a child out so to not make it personal

Truth and faith are one and the same.

The decision that god wants does not define who people are. When we grow older, we make our own decisions. With or without god, as a creaotr, it would be hard to handle the decisions of people who wish not to love him; and, because he is a creator, that's the role and consequence he has to bare. No one should get an ultimatum (either be saved or don't live with god's love) to follow god. His charity should have no reservations.

Many people and gods love. Hindu gods love just as abrahamic just as people. We have a choice to choose who we want to love in return. We shouldn't need to feel coerced for making a only one decision that we have the ability to make many.



Creator and parent have the same roles as an authority that takes care of christians (former) and his children (latter). God gives an ultimatum to believe in him not force. It's like any parent who says "if you don' love me, you will have consequences and you have the choice to not love me and I give you the decision to make that choice." It is also a form of giving that person a guilt-trip.

Instead, my point, is that a parent/creator and child/children of god should be equal in that both are treated as each other wants to be treated. It should be a two-way relationship not one-sided.

I see no love in a one-sided relationship. God's authority should not make a difference if he, in deed, became human not god to be our equal in order to die for childrens and save them from their sins. Without that equality in christ, there is no love.

We have a major difference of opinion. Truth and Faith are not the same but in my opinion but oppose each other. As long as we have this obstacle it will be hard to see each others view.

Peace

 

[Windwalker]

How we explain truth or convey it to others will be different but the truth is not. How you or I find the truth is different but the truth is not. A truth is a truth.

Does truth exist without someone perceiving and interpreting an object or event? It's like if there is no one to hear the tree fall in the forest, it is not making a sound as sound requires someone to hear it. Otherwise it's just waves. Can truth exist without the perceiver of it? Isn't it rather like the sound of one hand clapping? What is that?

There was another truth shared during this thread basically Change is constant. This a truth within every sec, min, hour, day change is constantly happening.

That is not an absolute truth of course. One could argue that from a certain perspective, everything is perfectly still. If you exist in timelessness, there is no change. Therefore, change is a relative truth. It is relative to a particular perception we take from within the stream of time.

There you have 2 truths that are not beliefs.

If the perception of an experience becomes held by the mind as true, it becomes a belief of the reality of something. Beliefs can be illusory.

There are more but the explanation gets more complicated and I doubt you and I will agree but the Truth will still be correct our comprehension will be flawed.

I disagree. I believe all our human truths are relative to us, and that is all we will ever know from our perspectives as humans through our set of human eyes, so to speak. Does Truth itself, with a capital T, the Absolute Truth exist? I do believe so, but it is not, nor can be any propositional truth; nothing which can be comprehended by the mind, nor claimed to "revealed" to some prophet or other as the absolute word on any question we may hold with the mind.

Rather that Truth is simply the nature of Reality itself, from which all our relative truths and relative realities are written out upon. Completely opposite truths to us, are expressions of Truth itself. In other words, if one claims their mind has access to the true answer to any given propositional truth, they are delusional.

 

[Windwalker]

Truth and Faith are not the same but in my opinion but oppose each other.

I asked before what you believe Faith is. Can you explain what these two words above mean to you and how you apply them?

 

[bobhikes]

I asked before what you believe Faith is. Can you explain what these two words above mean to you and how you apply them?

It is a detailed explanation that goes through our individuality and constant change and we don't agree on most of this. I know absolute truth's the 2 already being stated. You do not agree 100% I am fine with that it doesn't change the fact that they are truth's. Individuality and Change can cause many disagreements.

Understanding this I will offer my definition of Truth VS Faith in my most simplest form. Whether you agree or not will not change my definition.

Truth is getting knowledge from seeking with an open mind and honest self.
Truth is found.

Faith is an individual finding a greater value in something other than their self
Faith is given

This is the best I can do to express my personal experiences. I believe it to be the best explanation I can give at this time.

 

[sealchan]

The point being what ? Actually, the Bible supports Galileo's position. "Everyone knows" can't be everyone if it is a billion +. My point being that the wise one of atheism wanted to know why anyone could hang on to a truth, that others don't.

I guess the Bible should have spoken up more clearly on Galileo's behalf when the representative of the majority of Christians spoke against him.

 

[Muffled]

I've tried my best to define god in the most logical, scientific way and only arrived at the ways that I described in my previous posts in this thread.

Otherwise, I'm yet to see any logical explanation to the OP than the one I've offered.

If you can provide one, I'll applaud you.

I believe we can start with egotistical. I like to think of myself as perfect (that is ego speaking) but God says I am a sinner. I like to think I can do what is right but God says I can't so I need Him to do it for me. Where is the ego when I don't get to do anything and don't get the credit for what is done?

 

[shmogie]

nd

I guess the Bible should have spoken up more clearly on Galileo's behalf when the representative of the majority of Christians spoke against him.

I guess the Bible should have spoken up more clearly on Galileo's behalf when the representative of the majority of Christians spoke against him.

Perhaps. Galileo's conclusion's weren't really the issue. When an alleged religious organization accumulates massive political power, both religion and politics are degraded. The issue was his temerity to actually challenge the alleged total supremacy of that church. If one was allowed to do it, then others would, ultimately degrading the church's power and wealth. No challenge could be tolerated. "Absolute power corrupts absolutely"

 

[MonkeyFire]

You need to be wise.

 

[JustWondering]

You have a choice....
Life, greater than your own?
or no life at all after death

denial will lead you to the grave

expectation and preparation might allow a continuance

What if hinduism is correct and you're messing up by following the wrong religion and will be reincarnated as a dung beetle?! You better hurry up and start getting right with Vishnu!

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

At least you opened up with rabid statements instead of waiting until your thin veneer of civility wore through.

I am, of course, well aware of your dislike for me and my posts. My arguments do not appeal to you much, that's clear. But I wonder if you feel that the sentence above, referring to MY rabid statements and MY "veneer of civility" might suggest something about yourself? Consider it.

God did not say yell at Christians until I come to your house to be interviewed by you. He said if you diligently seek him, you would find him.

Now, just a quick question about that -- if you do not know anything of God, how could you knw what "He said" about diligently seeking Him? If you knew that He had said that, you would already know of His existence. You can't see how circular absolutely everything you say is -- for the very simple reason that you believe what you don't know, and then assume that your beliefs are knowledge. Another tight circularity.

And what, exactly, does it mean to "find him?" That you would suddenly feel a whole lot more sure about the things that you believe, but have still never had the slightest bit of evidence about? Do you know, that worked, just about 20 years ago now, for those who died in the Heaven's Gate cult of Marshall Applewhite. How do you know they were wrong, and did not board a spaceship hiding behind comet Hale-Bopp? They knew it.

What I know (and what billions have known) that may provide us ultimate salvation, that others do not? Christ.

And -- please try to remember this -- what EVEN MORE BILLIONS throughout history up until this very moment have not known and do not know, and have not believed and do not believe. That points to an essential failure of your god to be anything like universal and omnipotent.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Is that question limited to those in Hell? "What the hell..." not being capitalized, causes me to think it may be more general in scope. Not limited to the usual "What in Hell..." kinda thing.

Anyway, I'll take a chance.

If you know your bible, then you know how truly narrow correctness can get, whether in understanding,. wisdom, righteousness, or a host of other considerations, "broad is the way" to ignorance and licentiousness; but narrow the way to "rightness."

"Many CALLED - Few CHOSEN." What do you think those are, suggestions?

They are a measure of expectation, that is designed to keep the truth-seeker truly seeking.

What do you think God is doing here? Just alliterating Hyperbole to instigate homework for bible students?

No, my friend, He is attempting to warn everyone who cares, that not everyone knows truth, just by virtue of caring, but more is required.

I know a few things that have been altered by traditionalists, "orthodoxy - promoters" who have convinced themselves "Orthodoxy" is actually a standard for truth; but the reality is, "consensus" has replaced truth in bible comprehension.

I have been shown many things contrary to "what everyone knows" in scripture, but I am held back from teaching it lest I presume self-promotion. I am told to wait until I as am asked, then proceed with explanation.

And I am not in Hell.

I'm always surprised by the kinds of questions people ask me in these sorts of dialogues, since they know that I am an atheist. To ask an atheist "What do you think God is doing here?" is a bit of pure nonsense. I don't think God (who I don't think exists) is doing anything. I think the very human writers of the texts you refer to were doing a lot -- but I have no reason to suppose they knew anything more about God, science, the universe or human nature than I have access to.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Well, actually well over a billion believe in the truth that I do. How can you be so blindly stupid as to think you know more than they ?

And more billions do not? Shall we be democratic and say "majority rules?"