The OT today

[Benoni]

You realize I am Jewish and the Christian bible has no authority for me?

Yes. but I also posted a post on the tabernacle of David which you never addressed.

 

[CMike]

Yes. but I also posted a post on the tabernacle of David which you never addressed.

What's the question?

 

[Benoni]

Explain to me your thoughts on Amos 9:1
Amos 9:1 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
12That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.
13Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.
14And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
15And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

 

[Ingledsva]

Explain to me your thoughts on Amos 9:1
Amos 9:1 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
12That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.
13Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.
14And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
15And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

You seem to be forgetting that this is an actual tabernacle.

In the earlier books of Amos it is YHVH that is mad at the Israelites, and he therefor makes desolate the Tabernacles.

It says he saw YHVH standing on the altar ordering the destruction of the door lintels.

Says all destroyed except for a remnant, and the Tabernacle of David is rebuilt (as it was in the past) for that remnant.

It also says they will rebuild the destroyed cities.

So: this is talking about actual structures, not Jesus.


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[Benoni]

You seem to be forgetting that this is an actual tabernacle.

In the earlier books of Amos it is YHVH that is mad at the Israelites, and he therefor makes desolate the Tabernacles.

It says he saw YHVH standing on the altar ordering the destruction of the door lintels.

Says all destroyed except for a remnant, and the Tabernacle of David is rebuilt (as it was in the past) for that remnant.

It also says they will rebuild the destroyed cities.

So: this is talking about actual structures, not Jesus.


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The Tabernacle of David; was a small tent where the Ark of God was brought to Mount Zion. No outer court, no inner court no Holy of Holies. It stayed there until Solomon’s temple was built. Every day while David was king the ark of God was at Zion where David lived and reigned.

When David brought the Ark back to Mount Zion he wore an linen ephod, (In other word’s a priestly garment) David also offered burnt offerings to God as the High priest would on the Feast of Tabernacles. There was no high Priest; once a year at the Feast of Atonement at Zion; but David was an example of both King and Priest in that the Ark was not at Shiloh but Zion. No outer court, no holy place, no Levitical order. It is no wonder the Bible is full of pages written by David because of the influence of God’s Ark at Zion.

2 Samuel 6:
14And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.
17And they brought in the ark of the LORD, and set it in his place, in the midst of the tabernacle that David had pitched for it: and David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD


That is the natural side of the Tabernacle of David. You never see or understand the spiritual side.

 

[Ingledsva]

You seem to be forgetting that this is an actual tabernacle.

In the earlier books of Amos it is YHVH that is mad at the Israelites, and he therefor makes desolate the Tabernacles.

It says he saw YHVH standing on the altar ordering the destruction of the door lintels.

Says all destroyed except for a remnant, and the Tabernacle of David is rebuilt (as it was in the past) for that remnant.

It also says they will rebuild the destroyed cities.

So: this is talking about actual structures, not Jesus.

The Tabernacle of David; was a small tent where the Ark of God was brought to Mount Zion. No outer court, no inner court no Holy of Holies. It stayed there until Solomon’s temple was built. Every day while David was king the ark of God was at Zion where David lived and reigned.

When David brought the Ark back to Mount Zion he wore an linen ephod, (In other word’s a priestly garment) David also offered burnt offerings to God as the High priest would on the Feast of Tabernacles. There was no high Priest; once a year at the Feast of Atonement at Zion; but David was an example of both King and Priest in that the Ark was not at Shiloh but Zion. No outer court, no holy place, no Levitical order. It is no wonder the Bible is full of pages written by David because of the influence of God’s Ark at Zion.

2 Samuel 6:
14And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.
17And they brought in the ark of the LORD, and set it in his place, in the midst of the tabernacle that David had pitched for it: and David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD


That is the natural side of the Tabernacle of David. You never see or understand the spiritual side.

And how does that pertain to our conversation?


You are posting obvious, and known, information.


You keep posting verses, rather then explaining your position.


An interesting side note - According to Unger's Bible Encyclopedia - that "ephod" was originally feminine, and worn by Priestesses. Assyrian cuneiform tablets show this.


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[Benoni]

without God's Eord all you have is human logic. Not interested.

 

[Ingledsva]

without God's Eord all you have is human logic. Not interested.

Without your commentary and ideas behind the verses you are posting - why post?

This is the General Religious DEBATES Forum.

Are you the same guy that was banned some time back for just spamming us with Bible verse, or your version of it?


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[Benoni]

Without your commentary and ideas behind the verses you are posting - why post?

This is the General Religious DEBATES Forum.

Are you the same guy that was banned some time back for just spamming us with Bible verse, or your version of it?


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Sounds like you do not believe in the Bible. No ones version. All you have is your logic. I have been banned from many forums. What is your point?

Show me one verse where it declares man has a freewill to save himself???

 

[Ingledsva]

Without your commentary and ideas behind the verses you are posting - why post?

This is the General Religious DEBATES Forum.

Are you the same guy that was banned some time back for just spamming us with Bible verse, or your version of it?

Sounds like you do not believe in the Bible. No ones version. All you have is your logic. I have been banned from many forums. What is your point?

Show me one verse where it declares man has a freewill to save himself???

The point is - you get banned for a reason!

Correct, I do not believe in any religion.

As to "versions," I always personally translate, odd, ambiguous, out of context, or disputed, verses.


Why do you keep changing "Free Will," to free will "to save?"

We all have free will (within our circumstance - obviously.)



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[Benoni]

The point is - you get banned for a reason!

Correct, I do not believe in any religion.

As to "versions," I always personally translate, odd, ambiguous, out of context, or disputed, verses.


Why do you keep changing "Free Will," to free will "to save?"

We all have free will (within our circumstance - obviously.)



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I was banned because the system that runs these forums do not like me stepping on their bias udsing the very same Bible they claim they believe in.

Did you choose when, where you were born or your gender, how much money you make, or even the car you buy?

Carnal man is a slave to sin, man is dead in trespasses and it is his nature to totally reject all things of God; man has no choice or freewill to choose his own salvation; this is a religious myth and not a scriptural act; if anything the Bible teaches it is God who draws; it is Jesus that saves not mans carnal mind believing on by its own will.



The word freewill or choice are not found anywhere in the NT when it comes to someone freely choosing his own salvation. The word freewill is not even found in the Bible except for the Freewill Offering in the OT; which has nothing to do with salvation even as an example. God saves us by His grace, the and only then can carnal man have faith to believe in God and be saved. I also showed him that God caused the fall in Romans 8:20 which he totally rejected the content of the verse and replaced it with his bias opinion.

 

[Ingledsva]

The point is - you get banned for a reason!

Correct, I do not believe in any religion.

As to "versions," I always personally translate, odd, ambiguous, out of context, or disputed, verses.


Why do you keep changing "Free Will," to free will "to save?"

We all have free will (within our circumstance - obviously.)

I was banned because the system that runs these forums do not like me stepping on their bias udsing the very same Bible they claim they believe in.

Did you choose when, where you were born or your gender, how much money you make, or even the car you buy?

Carnal man is a slave to sin, man is dead in trespasses and it is his nature to totally reject all things of God; man has no choice or freewill to choose his own salvation; this is a religious myth and not a scriptural act; if anything the Bible teaches it is God who draws; it is Jesus that saves not mans carnal mind believing on by its own will.



The word freewill or choice are not found anywhere in the NT when it comes to someone freely choosing his own salvation. The word freewill is not even found in the Bible except for the Freewill Offering in the OT; which has nothing to do with salvation even as an example. God saves us by His grace, the and only then can carnal man have faith to believe in God and be saved. I also showed him that God caused the fall in Romans 8:20 which he totally rejected the content of the verse and replaced it with his bias opinion.

I step on their bias all the time, - but I'm still here.

I'm not a slave to "sin."

You can keep repeating "no freewill," however, according to the Bible we have a choice, and that is free will.


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[Benoni]

I step on their bias all the time, - but I'm still here.

I'm not a slave to "sin."

You can keep repeating "no freewill," however, according to the Bible we have a choice, and that is free will.


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Chapter and verse please?

 

[CMike]

Explain to me your thoughts on Amos 9:1
Amos 9:1 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
12That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.
13Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.
14And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
15And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

What about it?

 

[CMike]

People have free will.

quote]



Show me where carnal man has freewill unto salvation??? Man is a slave to sin, is born in sin and man is dead in trespasses and it is his nature to totally reject all things of God; man has no choice or freewill to choose his own salvation; this is a religious myth and not a scriptural act; if anything the Bible teaches it is God who draws; it is Jesus that saves not mans carnal mind believing on by its own will.

G-D said nothing in Torah law is beyond our reach.

Man is not born in sin.

Man can chose whether to sin or not. Resisting the temptation is what brings us closer to G-D.

Not resisting the temptation is what brings us futher away from G-D.

The word freewill or choice are not found anywhere in the NT when it comes to someone freely choosing his own salvation. The word freewill is not even found in the Bible except for the Freewill Offering in the OT; which has nothing to do with salvation even as an example. God saves us by His grace, the and only then can carnal man have faith to believe in God and be saved.

In John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (Gk(drag) and I will add forces him: and I will raise him up at the last day. and John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw (Gk(drag) all men unto me as you so wisely posted. The word draw is the Greek word from Strong’s 1670: helkuo (hel-koo'-o);or helko (hel'-ko); probably akin to 138; to drag (literally or figuratively):

John was wrong. The only being jews may look for in order to get salvation is G-D.

I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from Me there is no savior. (Isaiah, 43:11)

Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the Earth; for I am God, and there is no other. (Isaiah, 45:22)

This is what the Lord says…"Surely God is with you, and there is no other; there is no other God." (Isaiah, 45:14)

...The Lord our God, the Lord is one. (Deuteronomy, 6:4)
This is what the Lord says—your Redeemer, Who formed you in the womb: I am the Lord, Who has made all things, Who alone stretched out the heavens, Who spread out the Earth by Myself. (Isaiah, 44:24)

...Was it not I, the Lord? And there is no god apart from Me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but Me. (Isaiah, 45:21)

See now that I Myself am He! There is no god besides Me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal... (Deuteronomy, 32:39)

 

[Ingledsva]

Chapter and verse please?

1Co 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.


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[Benoni]

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G-D said nothing in Torah law is beyond our reach.

Man is not born in sin.

Man can chose whether to sin or not. Resisting the temptation is what brings us closer to G-D.

Not resisting the temptation is what brings us futher away from G-D.





John was wrong. The only being jews may look for in order to get salvation is G-D.

I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from Me there is no savior. (Isaiah, 43:11)

Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the Earth; for I am God, and there is no other. (Isaiah, 45:22)

This is what the Lord says…"Surely God is with you, and there is no other; there is no other God." (Isaiah, 45:14)

...The Lord our God, the Lord is one. (Deuteronomy, 6:4)
This is what the Lord says—your Redeemer, Who formed you in the womb: I am the Lord, Who has made all things, Who alone stretched out the heavens, Who spread out the Earth by Myself. (Isaiah, 44:24)

...Was it not I, the Lord? And there is no god apart from Me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but Me. (Isaiah, 45:21)

See now that I Myself am He! There is no god besides Me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal... (Deuteronomy, 32:39)

Being a Jew is but one of eleven other tribes. What about your other brother Isralites who were from the tribes of rueben, Benjamin etc...

That who Jesus came to seek out.

 

[CMike]

Being a Jew is but one of eleven other tribes. What about your other brother Isralites who were from the tribes of rueben, Benjamin etc...

That who Jesus came to seek out.

What about them?

What difference does that make regarding what G-D told the jewish people?

 

[Shermana]

Being a Jew is but one of eleven other tribes. What about your other brother Isralites who were from the tribes of rueben, Benjamin etc...

That who Jesus came to seek out.

No, the word "Jew" does not mean "From the Tribe of Judah" in its usage since the Babylonian Exile, it simply means "A member of the Israelites who lived in the province known as Judea". It can include Benjaminites as well for example, as well as Cohens and other Levites, and Ephramites, and Danites, as well as those who descend from the Tribes who didn't live in the Northern Kingdom at the time.