The price a Catholic pays for being in the public arena

[Estro Felino]

And we have how many Catholics now present on the Supreme Court?
And you think their vote ought to reflect their Catholic teaching? Would feel the same if a Jewish, or Islamic court?

Since this thread is in Religious Debates, I guess it is about religion, rather than politics, right?
Do you think a Catholic should endorse late-term abortions?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Since this thread is in Religious Debates, I guess it is about religion, rather than politics, right?
Do you think a Catholic should endorse late-term abortions?

"Endorse" as in "support the legal right for people to get them if they choose"? Yes, of course.

Imposing your religion on non-adherents is an invitation for non-adherents to insert themselves into your religion.

 

[Estro Felino]

Imposing your religion on non-adherents is an invitation for non-adherents to insert themselves into your religion.

It is the other way around. It is a supposed adherent called Nancy Pelosi who should receive the Eucharist, even if she doesn't follow official Catholic teachings.

 

[KW]

I remember when the same action was taken against John Kerry, denying of the Eucharist. What the bishop in this case is advocating is single issue voting.

From the article;
Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone of San Francisco is barring Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi from receiving Communion in his archdiocese. Ms. Pelosi, a life-long Catholic, has recently vowed to codify Roe v. Wade, in order to preserve a legal right to abortion in case the Supreme Court overturns the decision that legalized abortion in the United States.

“Unfortunately, Speaker Pelosi’s position on abortion has become only more extreme over the years, especially in the last few months,” Archbishop Cordileone said in a statement May 20. “Just earlier this month she once again, as she has many times before, explicity raised her Catholic faith while justifying abortion as a ‘choice,’ this time explicitly setting herself in opposition to Pope Francis.”

Last fall, Archbishop Cordileone organized a prayer and fasting campaign for Ms. Pelosi. “A conversion of heart of the majority of our congressional representatives is needed on this issue, beginning with the leader of the House,” he said in a statement Sept. 29. “I am therefore inviting all Catholics to join in a massive and visible campaign of prayer and fasting for Speaker Pelosi: Commit to praying one rosary a week and fasting on Fridays for her conversion of heart.”

Pope Francis has said that he has never denied Communion to anyone. “When the church, in order to defend a principle, acts in a non-pastoral way, it takes sides on the political plane. It has always been so,” Francis said last September on the flight back to Rome from Bratislava. “Be a pastor. Don’t go condemning.”

Archbishop bars Nancy Pelosi from Communion in her home diocese, citing ‘aggressive’ defense of abortion rights | America Magazine

I think you mean, the price a Catholic pays for publicly promoting mortal sins as acceptable for Catholics.

I think you mean, the price a Catholic pays for lying about the Church in public.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It is the other way around. It is a supposed adherent called Nancy Pelosi who should receive the Eucharist, even if she doesn't follow official Catholic teachings.

It's both. She should support reproductive rights AND she shouldn't face reprisals from her church for fulfilling the duties of her job ethically.

If her church wants to end late-term abortion, they have other options available.

 

[KW]

It's both. She should support reproductive rights AND she shouldn't face reprisals from her church for fulfilling the duties of her job ethically.

If her church wants to end late-term abortion, they have other options available.

All Catholics are forbidden from taking communion when they are not in a state of grace. It is for our own good.

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 1 Corinthians 11:27

 

[Estro Felino]

It's both. She should support reproductive rights AND she shouldn't face reprisals from her church for fulfilling the duties of her job ethically.

If her church wants to end late-term abortion, they have other options available.

No...life is made of choices.
If I were the Prime Minister of my own country, I would defend the right that gay people have to get married.
Because I live in a secular country.

If the Vatican excommunicates me as a consequence, I would accept it.
Because I choose the secular state.
I can't have both. I need to choose.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

All Catholics are forbidden from taking communion when they are not in a state of grace. It is for our own good.

Why would you assume that Nancy Pelosi is not in a state of grace?

Can you see into her heart? Do you know when she last went to confession?

 

[KW]

Why would you assume that Nancy Pelosi is not in a state of grace?

Can you see into her heart? Do you know when she last went to confession?

Public heresy. That's why she is denied communion.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No...life is made of choices.
If I were the Prime Minister of my own country, I would defend the right that gay people have to get married.
Because I live in a secular country.

If the Vatican excommunicates me as a consequence, I would accept it.
Because I choose the secular state.
I can't have both. I need to choose.

The implicit assumption in this approach is that any reasonable person ought not to take religion seriously.

If believe what the Catholic Church teaches about the sacraments, denying them to someone would be worse than putting a gun to their head, and coercing someone to do what you want by threatening to deny them the sacraments should be seen as just as criminal as coercing them by threatening to shoot them.

Our response to this issue is a lot like our response to other religious issues: we don't treat praying to God for someone's death the equivalent of trying to arrange a hit man; the law implicitly says that no reasonable person expects prayer to be effective.

And even if Christ himself appeared before someone and told him all the details of who committed a crime and how, this would be inadmissible in court; the law implicitly says that no reasonable person believes that gods and spirits talk to people.

In the same way, the bishop calling for the denial of the sacraments to Nancy Pelosi won't be charged with any crime, because the law implicitly says that no reasonable person believes that the sacraments actually do anything.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Public heresy. That's why she is denied communion.

Answer the last two questions, please.

 

[KW]

Answer the last two questions, please.

I did answer it.

In order to be forgiven for a public statement of heresy her repudiation of the heresy must be public.

 

[pearl]

I think you mean, the price a Catholic pays for lying about the Church in public.

You, as a Catholic, need to understand the difference between anti-abortion and pro-life.
A pro-life position does not end at birth; it must extend to a public vision which encompasses the common good of our society. The child whose life is protected by the moral and civil law deserves the support of a society which will provide the socio-economic conditions in which life can flourish.

I would be willing to guess this is not a priority with those passing the aggressive anti-abortion laws. They're only answer seems to be give the baby up for adoption. Are you ready to adopt? Any thought for the child who wonders why their mother didn't want them or who she is? All I see in these anti-abortion laws that have passed in the states is 'you made your bed, now lay in it'. The present anti-abortion party is not the party to provide for any safety net after birth. Some would even like to end those we do have, most of the entitlements.

 

[KW]

You, as a Catholic, need to understand the difference between anti-abortion and pro-life.
A pro-life position does not end at birth; it must extend to a public vision which encompasses the common good of our society. The child whose life is protected by the moral and civil law deserves the support of a society which will provide the socio-economic conditions in which life can flourish.

I would be willing to guess this is not a priority with those passing the aggressive anti-abortion laws. They're only answer seems to be give the baby up for adoption. Are you ready to adopt? Any thought for the child who wonders why their mother didn't want them or who she is? All I see in these anti-abortion laws that have passed in the states is 'you made your bed, now lay in it'. The present anti-abortion party is not the party to provide for any safety net after birth. Some would even like to end those we do have, most of the entitlements.

That's all semantics.

Would you say the same about someone who voted for the party of slavery?

 

[pearl]

That's all semantics.

Simply look at the record of each party.

Would you say the same about someone who voted for the party of slavery?

The reason why after signing the civil right bill he made the statement ' we've lost the south for xxxyears.' The concern is now in the 21st cent.

 

[KW]

Simply look at the record of each party.



The reason why after signing the civil right bill he made the statement ' we've lost the south for xxxyears.' The concern is now in the 21st cent.

I have no idea what you are talking about. A higher percentage of Republicans than Democrats voted for the Civil Rights Act.

That wasn't the point though.

Would you vote for a party that supported slavery today?

 

[pearl]

Would you vote for a party that supported slavery today?

It is evident today which party supports economic slavery.
Try comparing the Church's social justice teaching, beginning with Leo XIII, I think, with the current actions of the political parties.

 

[KW]

It is evident today which party supports economic slavery.
Try comparing the Church's social justice teaching, beginning with Leo XIII, I think, with the current actions of the political parties.

The Church opposes socialism.

What is economic slavery?

Do you mean freedom? That’s what leftists usually mean when they use those words to attack free markets.

 

[pearl]

The Church opposes socialism.

Begs the question how well do you know your Church? Its not socialism the Church opposes, its Marxism.

 

[KW]

Begs the question how well do you know your Church? Its not socialism the Church opposes, its Marxism.

On the Evils of Socialism | EWTN